[Terez]

I had actually suggested that panel to the former Director already before she announced she was stepping down. It was the second panel I had suggested to her; she 'preliminarily' approved another one I suggested, about how Confederate lore influenced RJ's approach to slavery. When she didn't write me back about the Tylin panel, I figured I was annoying her.

[Werthead]

Quote

I'm curious if we ll see any New Spring coverage at all.

I'd save it as a stand-alone TV movie (like BSG's Razor). If you cast a relatively big name as Moiraine, you're going to have to ask her to sit out 3-4 seasons and then come back for the last 7-8 episodes of the show. That's a bit of an ask. Giving her her own TV movie halfway down that period which focuses almost entirely on her is a good move for keeping your cast happy.

[amphibian]

That Tylin scene is 100% rape.

[acesn8s]

Terez, on 30 April 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

amphibian, on 30 April 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

Terez, on 29 April 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

I don't even know what 'the job' is, honestly. This seems somewhere between writer and producer. And don't you need a resume for that? I think for the moment I'll concentrate on applying for the Director job that just opened for the World of the Wheel track at JordanCon.

Completely serious, there's most likely a space for you at a writer's table or show adaptation table. Werthead got something going for ASOIAF, and he initially brought less to the table than you do right now.

I have been offhandedly very praising of you and your interests (esp WoT) for years. It's because you both have the knowledge and the context awareness to fit it into the right places.

I appreciate your faith, but I have always been very nervous about putting myself forward for jobs like this. Even the Wheel track position at the con. I have probably never in my life been more qualified for a job than this one; their job description seems like an invitation for me, specifically, to apply; in a lot of ways, the application process seems like a formality. But I'm still nervous about applying for it, and terrified that they'll pick someone else, despite the fact that I would have been okay with just doing what I have been doing at the con in future years. I took over the trivia panels this year; they are the most work-intensive panels on the track, and before this year they were always run by the track director. I suspect that this was a test to see whether I could handle running this track, and I'm still terrified, despite overwhelmingly positive feedback on trivia and my other panels.

I also think you should throw your hat in the ring. Don't make this something you may regret not trying for. Getting rejected would suck, but going through life thinking "what if" or "I should have" would be harder to let go of. If I remember correctly, you have a casual relationship with Harriet. Maybe contact her and ask if there is anything you can do to help with the development of the show, or if she has any advice for you?

[Esa1996]

I'd say that just go for it Terez. I'm a late comer to the WOT fandom (Only read them in spring 2014) so I never really participated in any discussions of it on Dragonmount for example, but I knew your name regardless of that long before I found you on this forum too (You're famous in the WOT fandom, so much so that even one who has never really been a part of it knows your name ). You definitely are qualified for doing those plans of what to keep and what to cut etc. I liked your season plan too. Slightly enlarge the Rand v Sammael fight and it'll make a good ending for a season and the cleansing is really epic as it is. The Seanchan wars would also make good mid season episodes etc.

[Terez]

Esa1996, on 01 May 2016 - 11:02 PM, said:

I'd say that just go for it Terez. I'm a late comer to the WOT fandom (Only read them in spring 2014) so I never really participated in any discussions of it on Dragonmount for example, but I knew your name regardless of that long before I found you on this forum too (You're famous in the WOT fandom, so much so that even one who has never really been a part of it knows your name ). You definitely are qualified for doing those plans of what to keep and what to cut etc. I liked your season plan too. Slightly enlarge the Rand v Sammael fight and it'll make a good ending for a season and the cleansing is really epic as it is. The Seanchan wars would also make good mid season episodes etc.

Again, I appreciate the support. But funny story: of all the major WoT sites, tarvalon.net is the only one I've never been active on for any length of time. But there are a LOT of Tar Valon people who come to JordanCon every year, so I'm getting to know them, especially their higher-ups who are active at the con. And I promise you, most of these people don't have a goddamn clue who Terez is. Not that I have a problem with that. Like, even the people who go to the con every year, I only know a dozen or so by name, maybe as many as 20. Hell, some of them, I probably know from the con and don't even know that they're Tar Valon people.

Anyway, I just joined their forum, and the people seem cool enough, but I don't think any of the people who have welcomed me in my welcome thread have any idea who I am. Only one of them was at the con and she says she doesn't remember me. It's definitely a different kind of forum than Theoryland or Dragonmount or Wotmania, which would be why I never posted there. It wasn't the kind of place you went if you were in the mood to have a flamewar about Lews Therin. (That's hyperbole; I hate flamewars, but that subject often inspired them.) They seem very insulated from the rest of the online fandom.

This post has been edited by Terez: 02 May 2016 - 12:42 AM

[Werthead]

I was talking to WoT fans in London when I did my panel with Harriet and Maria, and they also knew who Terez was A few Dragonmount veterans were there I think. But I think all of the WoT sites have either died off completely (like Wotmania/RAFO did) or have become so inactive they might as well nearly be dead (Dragonmount). The TV show might, at least, reinvigorate the fandom. Or pull a GoT and flood it with newcomers. We'll have to see.

[Terez]

Werthead, on 02 May 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

I was talking to WoT fans in London when I did my panel with Harriet and Maria, and they also knew who Terez was

At first I thought you meant Harriet and Maria. I don't know Harriet very well, but she made a point to address me by name at this con. I think she does that with everyone, though, if she can in fact remember their name. Maria is a different story; she smokes so she knows all the con smokers very well. I still have to go outside to vape so that hasn't changed even though I quit. I first met her at JordanCon 2010 and when I tried to introduce myself, she was like "I know who you are..." This year, someone tried to introduce us, and she said, "I know Terez. She's been to my house!" (This is true. But I tried to invite myself again at some point, probably when I was in Charleston to see the notes, and that didn't fly, lol.)

[paran falcon]

A little off the topic of WoT coming to tv but the fact that it is likely seems to have re-inspired me. I dabble in woodworking and have made at least one replica from wood of the dagger from Shadar Logoth (actually 65% done with my 3rd of these) and Mat Cauthon's ashandarei. Since finishing AMoL, I haven't revisited these projects but WoT coming to the small or large screen would make it "relevant" again, without a doubt. When I made the ashandarei several years back, I wanted to do the inscription down the haft in the Old Tongue, as its supposed to be, but to my knowledge its never written out in the books in the Old Tongue. (I'm fairly sure of this as I made note of every description of the ashandarei I could find in the books, for reference.) I did some searching online as well but never found anything definitive. So I did the inscription carving in English. I'm flirting with the idea of making a second one (the 1st I gifted to my sister-in-law, the only person I've been able to turn on to the series) now that this news has brought WoT back to the forefront of my mind and I would really like to be able to do the inscription in the Old Tongue. Does anyone know if that specific translation is out there anywhere? I found an Old Tongue dictionary online today but haven't broken down and searched for each individual word in the quote yet. They may not all be in this dictionary. The ashandarei quote wasn't one of the ones shown by itself, either. Anyone have an idea where else to search? Thanks!

[Terez]

This is in the WoT Companion which was released last November. It has a basic Old Tongue dictionary and a collection of phrases. This never appeared in the books:

Ghiro feal dae'vin lormae; ghiro o'vin gemarisae
Nardes vasen'cierto ain; sind vyen loviyagae
Devoriska nolvae. Al ciyat dalae.

Literal translation:

Thus our treaty is written; thus agreement is made
Thought the arrow-of-time is; never fade memories
What was asked is given. The price is paid.

PS: The Companion also has Old Tongue script, if you want to be proper about it.

Also, be aware that you probably wouldn't be able to sell anything like this; the recent TV deal included merchandising and even Ta'veren Tees got screwed out of their exclusive licensing rights.

This post has been edited by Terez: 06 May 2016 - 08:30 AM

[paran falcon]

Terez, on 06 May 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

This is in the WoT Companion which was released last November. It has a basic Old Tongue dictionary and a collection of phrases. This never appeared in the books:

Ghiro feal dae'vin lormae; ghiro o'vin gemarisae
Nardes vasen'cierto ain; sind vyen loviyagae
Devoriska nolvae. Al ciyat dalae.

Literal translation:

Thus our treaty is written; thus agreement is made
Thought the arrow-of-time is; never fade memories
What was asked is given. The price is paid.

PS: The Companion also has Old Tongue script, if you want to be proper about it.

Also, be aware that you probably wouldn't be able to sell anything like this; the recent TV deal included merchandising and even Ta'veren Tees got screwed out of their exclusive licensing rights.

Thanks Terez! I thought you might be the one with the answer, based on your level of fandom. Is the companion you referenced the "encyclopedia" I kept hearing/reading about? If so, I somehow missed that it was actually released. I'll have to get it.

I've run across examples of the script a few times but was more focused on the full translation.

I was aware that I wouldn't be able to sell what I make (due to copyright issues) without being granted an "official" WoT artist status. (I will admit to daydreaming about that possibility.) I wasn't aware that the new tv deal will cover all merchandising. So are all former/current official WoT artists out of luck, as well now?

[Terez]

Yup, Encyclopedia=Companion. And yes, all former/current official artists got screwed in the TV deal. No one has said this outright publicly—they're waiting on the studio with the rights to make a statement—but it wasn't hard to figure out from comments here and there.

[Abyss]

Do any of them actually have an ongoing and exclusive contract?

[Terez]

Yeah, Ta'veren Tees does. Or did. Obviously not sure about the details as to when their licensing rights will be invalidated; it might be as soon as the final signatures are on the deal, which apparently isn't yet.

There are some other groups that were licensed for specific things, but the artists for Ta'veren Tees and the owners are pretty sick about it. They come to JordanCon every year; they're chummy with Harriet and Harriet's licensing guy and everyone else; they're feeling pretty betrayed. Though I hear from some people who know stuff that this is typical for Hollywood deals.

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 06 May 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

Do any of them actually have an ongoing and exclusive contract?

Terez, on 06 May 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

Yeah, Ta'veren Tees does. Or did. Obviously not sure about the details as to when their licensing rights will be invalidated; it might be as soon as the final signatures are on the deal, which apparently isn't yet.

There are some other groups that were licensed for specific things, but the artists for Ta'veren Tees and the owners are pretty sick about it. They come to JordanCon every year; they're chummy with Harriet and Harriet's licensing guy and everyone else; they're feeling pretty betrayed. Though I hear from some people who know stuff that this is typical for Hollywood deals.

That's the thing... it's Hollywood merchandise 101. Selling tshirts at Cons will never ever ever match the kiddies section at Walmart. Either their contracts had a break clause for this sort of development, or the rights holders are content to just break the contract and pay out of petty change at mediation if even necessary.

Anyone who thought they could make niche WoT merch for life and retire on it was naively optimistic. Nice people and huge fans i'm certain, but they weren't going to not be swept aside when this happened... right when arguably they would be in a position to make the most dollars too. Ouch.

[Terez]

My guess is that they would be content to be allowed to compete; even a tiny slice of the pie would be better than nothing. But apparently that's not how it works.

[Abyss]

Terez, on 06 May 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

My guess is that they would be content to be allowed to compete; even a tiny slice of the pie would be better than nothing. But apparently that's not how it works.

Nope. There are no tiny slices of pie in big media and with GoT and (god help us) Shannarra already in play, this is big.

Competing licenses are typically staggered time-wise (the more expensive stuff gets a few months before the mass produced cheaper crap hits the shelves) or geographically.

Tho i suppose they could scale up, get some investment capital and make a bid for whatever chunk they work with. If you already have the operation already rolling, i won't say slotting in Walmart level distribution and Made in China production would be easy, but a solid shot at a license is maybe do-able with some thought.

[paran falcon]

Abyss, on 06 May 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Abyss, on 06 May 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

Do any of them actually have an ongoing and exclusive contract?

Terez, on 06 May 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

Yeah, Ta'veren Tees does. Or did. Obviously not sure about the details as to when their licensing rights will be invalidated; it might be as soon as the final signatures are on the deal, which apparently isn't yet.

There are some other groups that were licensed for specific things, but the artists for Ta'veren Tees and the owners are pretty sick about it. They come to JordanCon every year; they're chummy with Harriet and Harriet's licensing guy and everyone else; they're feeling pretty betrayed. Though I hear from some people who know stuff that this is typical for Hollywood deals.

That's the thing... it's Hollywood merchandise 101. Selling tshirts at Cons will never ever ever match the kiddies section at Walmart. Either their contracts had a break clause for this sort of development, or the rights holders are content to just break the contract and pay out of petty change at mediation if even necessary.

Anyone who thought they could make niche WoT merch for life and retire on it was naively optimistic. Nice people and huge fans i'm certain, but they weren't going to not be swept aside when this happened... right when arguably they would be in a position to make the most dollars too. Ouch.

I certainly didn't dream of making a living or anything close to that, but I did think it would be pretty cool to have other fans appreciate a replica of something from the series and have permission to sell it to those who might be willing to buy. I can't say I'm at all surprised that it's going this way, though. I feel bad for those that already had a foot in the door. Mass market everything...

[Werthead]

Quote

There are some other groups that were licensed for specific things, but the artists for Ta'veren Tees and the owners are pretty sick about it. They come to JordanCon every year; they're chummy with Harriet and Harriet's licensing guy and everyone else; they're feeling pretty betrayed. Though I hear from some people who know stuff that this is typical for Hollywood deals.

It's typical but actually negotiable if you have the confidence: GRRM specifically negotiated for separate book and TV merchandising deals and told HBO that all of the current merchandising deals in place for the books would stay in place, and this would include all prior licenses which used the "A GAME OF THRONES" as well as "A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE". Apparently HBO were not impressed and GRRM said, "Fine" and indicated he was prepared to walk away from the project. HBO then backed down - HBO never backs down, on anything - and agreed. And GRRM even prevented prequel and sequel rights from going to HBO, so they've got to make a separate deal if they want to make another ASoIaF-related TV show in the future.

This is why Green Ronin, Fantasy Flight, John Picacio's art stuff, Valyrian Steel and all the small companies GRRM licensed stuff to before have still got the rights to do stuff based on the books. GRRM went out to bat for them and they've all benefitted - massively - from the success of the TV show as a by-product.

It sounds like that the WoT TV deal was not fought for quite so aggressively (not that this is something to criticise: GRRM was a hardcore Hollywood player for over a decade and knew about all of this going in). Either that, or the TV company offered a substantially more massive amount of money. This might be linked into the contract issues Harriet had with Tor as well. I know they tweaked it so that the companion book would make up for some of that, but there were some indications that it might still be an issue. If so, this company coming in and placing a rumoured-eight-figures on the table would obliterate that issue completely.

[Terez]

Werthead, on 11 May 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

This might be linked into the contract issues Harriet had with Tor as well. I know they tweaked it so that the companion book would make up for some of that, but there were some indications that it might still be an issue. If so, this company coming in and placing a rumoured-eight-figures on the table would obliterate that issue completely.

I believe this was more or less settled when AMOL became 3 books instead of 1.