[Andorion]

So let me get this straight: The big story is not resolved in Chapterhouse Dune, but in the Books 7&8 which were written by Brian herbert and Kevin Anderson, boos so horrible, that reading the wiki summaries is a legitimate thing?

[Maark Abbott]

Yes.

For them to make sense, you would ideally need to read the Butlerian Jihad books, which again are not good. They're not Stormlight levels of terrible, but they skirt the border like a crass Russia/Ukraine analogy.

[Salt-Man Z]

Or you could just read the original 6, take in the open-ended ending, and call it a day.

(For the record, I own the House Trilogy, the Jihad Trilogy, and 7/8, but have only read the House books, which are...eh.)

[amphibian]

Briar King, on 12 April 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

Depending who you ask. Try 7 yada like I said above. If the glare blinds you read online. They got a bad wrap writing a few shitty Dune books yrs before they "found the notes".

The quotation marks around "found the notes" are there because people seriously doubt the existence/extensiveness of the notes Frank Herbert left behind for his books/series.

The handling of this series post-mortem is clearly not of the same level Christopher Tolkien applied to his father's works. BH/KJA claimed that they were acting on the notes and that they weren't extemporizing that much. However, the writing is seriously different/worse. Things got so bad between Brian Herbert/KJA/publishers that the fans/critics publicly doubt that FH planned for the books they wrote. The notes were never released.

[amphibian]

The reason why all of this even happened is that Dune remains the best selling sci fi book ever. Brian couldn't make it as a writer of his own original ideas, so he cooperated with Frank on a few books, then launched it into a career of his own (I think he and KJA are at 12+ Dune books of middling to terrible quality as of now).

Most of the Dune books have landed on the NY Times bestseller list - even the BH/KJA ones. The setting and the characters move units.

[Binder of Demons]

I seem to remember there being a mention of Frank Herbert's notes before any of the BH/KJA travesties ever came to pass.

I am a huge fan of the original Dune books, and so I read several of the prequel novels, but they were so unsatisfying that i vowed to never buy another one again. I did read a few more after getting them from the library, but I only really wanted to see what the conclusion was to the (sort-of) cliffhanger at the end of Chapterhouse:Dune. It wasn't worth the wait.

I'm willing to give BH/KJA the benefit of the doubt that there were at least some notes (however minuscule they might have been), if only because the books read like a few bullet points expanded into a full novel. The writing is perfunctory at best, and lacks any of the subtlety or depth of the originals.

I'd say read the original 6 by Frank Herbert, and seriously consider stopping there. If you are really itching to see if there is a resolution to the story, then you can read the 2 sequels by BH/KJA. But I'd strongly advise stopping there. Don't bother with all the prequels, there are other authors far more worthy of your patronage.

[Andorion]

So about halfway into God Emperor of Dune

So far its basically been Worm Leto intimidating/manipulating people.

I think the climax of the story will hinge on the success/failure of an assassination attempt


A few things are confusing

1. Why this singleminded need for new Duncans? Is Leto insane? Is this a form of OCD?


2. Where is the Spice coming from, if the worms are gone? Is Leto producing it? Would not that single fact nullify all plots against him?

3. Why is Leto so confident about bringing Seona in? He can't see her future. A true nihilistic rebel would kill Moneo and commit suicide, ending the Atreides line.

[amphibian]

There are enormous stockpiles held by most of the major organizations. Remember that the Tleilaxu are close to a spice producing breakthrough too.

[Andorion]

About 75% into God Emperor of Dune

So Leto has become really emotional after his infatuation with Hwi Nori

Duncan Idaho is angry a lot

Seona will probably survive her test, given that Leto is giving her water from his own body.


The Hwi Nori-Duncan Idaho love thing really bothered me. They met thrice, and they can't keep their hands of each other? This seems like one of those things that happen because the author wants it to happen.

The lack of worldbuilding is really bothering me. What is the source of energy in this civilisation? Can't be fossil fuel, nuclear is taboo so what? Never stated

Why won't Leto tell everybody what the ultimate doom is? I can't think of anything that justifies his keeping the empire in stagnation. Invasion? People have no military tradition, no initiative, no leadership, very little tech

Environmental catastrophe like supernovas? Same problems.

I don't see how the Golden Path helps

[amphibian]

Keep reading.

[Andorion]

Finished God Emperor of Dune

So what can I say....I really did not like this book for the major part, but the Leto-Hwi romance just turned it round for me. There is some genuinely good emotional interplay here. And weirdly enough it was Hwi's yoghurt line that really won me over. This arc really humanized Leto for me

But so many questions!


Did Leto foresee the ending?

Does Siona intend to continue the Divine Emperor thing?

What about Spice? Even with huge stockpiles, things are going to be quite hard in a few years?

What is this long term danger that Leto saw? Will it be revealed soon?

[Cause]

In regards to the Duncan obsession I think it's simply that Leto has other memory of his grandfather and father. Both of whom had a great friendship and live for Duncan. Leto is very isolated by choice, he allows himself one friend in Duncan who he connects with through multiple lives

[Andorion]

I have started Heretics, only one chapter in, and so far it seems to be very BG focussed which is interesting. With regard to the Brian Herbert books, I think the way Chapterhouse ends will decide the issue. I don't think I can finish Heretics, Chapterhouse, plus the two Brain Herbert books by the 22nd-23rd which is my intended date for starting Forge of Darkness. I just don't have enough reading time for that. Are Heretics and Chapterhouse a bit more action focussed than God Emperor?

[acesn8s]

Briar King, on 15 April 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

Yes. Bk 5 is prob the heaviest action. It's great and very BG heavy. I want to read it now. 6 is also heavy. I think you may wind up caving and trying 7.

I stopped midway though God Emperor last year, this is encouraging.

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 17 April 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

Since your a good bit into bk 5 I ll tell ya my fav series character. Basher Miles Motherfucking Teg!

I was just going to say this. Miles Teg is an excellent addition to the cast. My favourite since Paul and his father

[Andorion]

So about halfway into Heretics of Dune.

SO far I really really like this book.

The two parallel plots of Sheeona and Duncan are both compelling and entertaining. The Tlix people getting some in depth roles for the first time definitely helped the story. Getting some BG PoVs other than Lady Jessica was also great. Odrade is an interesting person to follow.

But the best thing about this book so far is Miles Teg. After Paul, he is the first person who can quite effortlessly handle a BG. I really hope he gets a big role in the later part of the book. I also hope Duncan is not too angsty.

Generally the faster and more action oriented tone really helps this book. Sheeona story is quite amusing in parts as well.

I confess I have no idea why these Honored Matres are so big a threat. They are physically capable and have a sex worship cult, whatever that is, but so far I don't really see any aspect that can't be handled

Seeing Taraza and Odrade tackling the Tlix head on was very amusing. I really want to see what comes of that storyline

[Andorion]

Finished Heretics of Dune

An excellent, very tight book with some great twists at the end.

So, Duncan has super-sex powers? This is new.


About halfway into Chapter house Dune.

I don't really see how the BG can win. Individually they maybe superior to the HMs but the HMs have military superiority and its ony a matter of time before they discover the Chapterhouse.

Given the existence of Idaho, Murbella, Teg, Sheeona, and Scytale with all the genetic sources of the older characters in the same planet, do they flee on a No Ship?

Also who are the old people only Idaho can see?

Also this is high time I decided about the two concluding books. WHy exactly are they so bad? Boring? Bad writing? Implausible plots?

[amphibian]

Very, very bad writing.

[LinearPhilosopher]

The thing about pauls prescience is that there are countless potential futures and it is very easy to loose oneself in them. As such he sticks to what he knows will happen and act according to what will happen. If he pre empts to many things, who knows what the future would look like

[Maark Abbott]

7 & 8 are horrendously written. They're still somehow better than Way of Kinds but don't let that get your hopes up one jot.