[Ryllandaras]

Monok Ochem, on 08 October 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm still going to

vote liosan

For the reasons I said before. Gnaw can be blatant about things like this and I think his later play was back tracking. It's made you all look elsewhere rather than the elephant in the room.

Well, your argument rests on Emur signalling his masters by voting them. He voted for two people, Liosan and myself. Now, I know that I am a townie. This therefore also makes me doubt then the second half of your hypothesis, that Liosan would be scum based on the same link.

Basically, from my own perspective, your case is not strong enough.

I'm saying he signalled Liosan but then backtracked by voting elsewhere and scrambling.

What is a vote on a player who hadn't posted 4 hours into day. Why do that?

[Path-Shaper]

It is now Day 3. 33 hours 13 minutes left.

There are 9 players left alive: Aparal Forge, Demelain, Kadagar Fant, Karosis, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Ryllandaras

5 votes to lynch. 5 votes to go to Night.

2 votes Kadagar Fant: Mockra, Monok Ochem
1 vote Omtose: Kadagar Fant
1 vote Liosan: Ryllandaras



Players not voted: Aparal Forge, Demelain, Karosis, Liosan, Omtose

[Kadagar Fant]

Demelain, on 08 October 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm still going to

vote liosan

For the reasons I said before. Gnaw can be blatant about things like this and I think his later play was back tracking. It's made you all look elsewhere rather than the elephant in the room.

What? The only reason being the early game vote? That's weak and you know it. Yesterday, you were the one claiming that early vote was actually a false signal, put down by "symp Emur" to misdirect us. Now you claim you think it was an actual signal and to pursue it. It's like Schrödinger's WIFOM, it's both a true and a false signal at the same time.

If you really want to make a case on Liosan, then actually do so and use Liosan's behaviour. Not only is your current case so weak it could easily be misdirection, it does not even call out Liosan on anything they did or wrote, so it's not going get much information on thread from Liosan as well.

The other possible reason for a Lio vote was his end of day case on Fandaray before Fan's NK which was seen as distancing. I think that coupled by Emur's too early vote are a case.

[Ryllandaras]

Demelain, on 08 October 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm still going to

vote liosan

For the reasons I said before. Gnaw can be blatant about things like this and I think his later play was back tracking. It's made you all look elsewhere rather than the elephant in the room.

What? The only reason being the early game vote? That's weak and you know it. Yesterday, you were the one claiming that early vote was actually a false signal, put down by "symp Emur" to misdirect us. Now you claim you think it was an actual signal and to pursue it. It's like Schrödinger's WIFOM, it's both a true and a false signal at the same time.

If you really want to make a case on Liosan, then actually do so and use Liosan's behaviour. Not only is your current case so weak it could easily be misdirection, it does not even call out Liosan on anything they did or wrote, so it's not going get much information on thread from Liosan as well.

Well seem as both PS scenes are saying the healer is alive then with the reveal by Emur he has to be the symp.

So with that in sight I'd say it brings about a different perspective on that first vote. I'm not discounting the possibility it was a red herring but I don't see how that points the finger at Kadagar?

[Demelain]

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Well seem as both PS scenes are saying the healer is alive then with the reveal by Emur he has to be the symp.

So with that in sight I'd say it brings about a different perspective on that first vote. I'm not discounting the possibility it was a red herring but I don't see how that points the finger at Kadagar?

Where am I saying that it points the finger at Kadagar?

I was merely trying to make sense of your post and I still don't really get it. Yesterday you seemed convinced that Emur was symp and the vote a false signal, now you seem convinced that Emur was symp and the vote an actual signal. To me it seems like you were deriving opposite conclusions from the same argument.

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

The other possible reason for a Lio vote was his end of day case on Fandaray before Fan's NK which was seen as distancing. I think that coupled by Emur's too early vote are a case.

Distancing from what? Their NK target?

[Ryllandaras]

Demelain, on 08 October 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Well seem as both PS scenes are saying the healer is alive then with the reveal by Emur he has to be the symp.

So with that in sight I'd say it brings about a different perspective on that first vote. I'm not discounting the possibility it was a red herring but I don't see how that points the finger at Kadagar?

Where am I saying that it points the finger at Kadagar?

I was merely trying to make sense of your post and I still don't really get it. Yesterday you seemed convinced that Emur was symp and the vote a false signal, now you seem convinced that Emur was symp and the vote an actual signal. To me it seems like you were deriving opposite conclusions from the same argument.

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

The other possible reason for a Lio vote was his end of day case on Fandaray before Fan's NK which was seen as distancing. I think that coupled by Emur's too early vote are a case.

Distancing from what? Their NK target?

Other people are pointing at Kadagar sorry.

The point at which I was saying it could be misdirection was before a lynch has happened, before the reveal by Emur and before the scene by PS.

At that time with no information I was pondering what the vote on Lio meant. If you look at the post in question...

Ryllandaras, on 06 October 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on 05 October 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

No poster hunt:


Vote Liosan

That is a new one. "No poster hunt"
It made me chuckle when reading through.
Voting someone early into day one when they have not posted is harsh.
I do not know what to think of this at the moment.

It could be a signal.
It could be a fake signal.
It could be a move to get the game going, either with him posting more or everyone talking about it. The problem I am having is, why him over the other non posters?

Edit: no to know

I wasn't sure what to make of it at the time. I don't want a situation where Liosan's vote matters and we are still struggling over whether or not it was a signal.

It could be either. I'll leave it at that. My case wasn't solely based upon his vote though, it was based on Omtose's reaction to me calling Emur a symp. If Liosan and Omtose are partnered then Omtose could've been worried where I was going to place my vote based off those thoughts.

Again, look at Omtose' play since. He's been quiet. A player that started off active and vocal has become the opposite. Maybe because no one is looking at his direction or Liosan's. Am I stretching it too far?

[Kadagar Fant]

Demelain, on 08 October 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Well seem as both PS scenes are saying the healer is alive then with the reveal by Emur he has to be the symp.

So with that in sight I'd say it brings about a different perspective on that first vote. I'm not discounting the possibility it was a red herring but I don't see how that points the finger at Kadagar?

Where am I saying that it points the finger at Kadagar?

I was merely trying to make sense of your post and I still don't really get it. Yesterday you seemed convinced that Emur was symp and the vote a false signal, now you seem convinced that Emur was symp and the vote an actual signal. To me it seems like you were deriving opposite conclusions from the same argument.

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

The other possible reason for a Lio vote was his end of day case on Fandaray before Fan's NK which was seen as distancing. I think that coupled by Emur's too early vote are a case.

Distancing from what? Their NK target?

Yes

[Aparal Forge]

I just did a full read through and the only two candidates are:

Liosan: Mainly Day 1 play, his late attack on Fanderay which I pointed out earlier could be distancing from NK

and KF, reasons being Mockras case.

I am going to go with Liosan

Vote Liosan

[Liosan]

have a few minutes to spare -

is this for real? are you seriously voting for me based on absolutely NOTHING except WIFOM? as in, I showed up and commented on a player 6 hours before timeout, that player got NK'd, and somehow that means I'm the killer and I killed them? with NO other logic or reasoning at all? have you ever played fucking mafia?

jesus christ we don't have a chance. go back to quoting massive blocks of text and padding the bottom with empty bullshit and WIFOM, AF. I think you forgot the quotes this time.

[Omtose]

vote kadagan fant
Work/trsvel day, in airport, will be home in a few hours

[Liosan]

wow, so both KF and ryll are on the same mindless train of thought. holy fuck. you are all morons.

do you guys understand why we don't speculate on NKs? BECAUSE IT IS POINTLESS. shit, man, do you guys not get that it is EQUALLY POSSIBLE that the killers NK'd fanderay for THE VERY REASON of making my comments about him lead you into suspicion? I mean....really? why not take it further into WIFOM territory? after I posted my fanderay case and emur was lynched, anom accused me of setting up a day 2 lynch on fanderay. gee, I guess the only possiblility is that i killed fanderay before anom said that and then decided to kill anom the next night because he was accusing me of setting fanderay up. i'm a fucking genius.

I didn't even have a SINLGE interaction with fanderay before I posted my "case" on him - not ONE - why the FUCK would i need to distance myself with a weak case on DAY ONE if ...THERE IS NOTHING TO DISTANCE MYSELF FROM?! NO INTERACTION WITH THE NK TARGET AT ALL??!?!? MUST BE DISTANCING OMG!!! god. or if i was going to kill fanderay, why the fuck would i come out of nowhere with a case about him pretending to act like a newb and using "mafia" instead of "Scum" and by doing so LINK US TOGETHER RIGHT BEFORE I KILL HIM? is it possible in any fucking universe for any of this to make sense to anyone? no. and that is why we call it WINE IN FUCKING FRONT OF ME. WIFFOM. NEW TERM FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND WIFOM.

====

deep breaths...

nothing has changed since yesterday and KF is still actively saying he buys this day 1 shit:

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

The other possible reason for a Lio vote was his end of day case on Fandaray before Fan's NK which was seen as distancing. I think that coupled by Emur's too early vote are a case.

no. that is not a case. mafia 101 for you.

it's stupidly unfortunate that Emur randomly voted me simply because I was sleeping 4 hours into day 1 and now I have to get all OMGUS on you fools but that is how it is, i'd vote you regardless

vote kadagar fant

I would like to hear back from people who are absent (Omtose, Karosis) and from the three stooges above who are drunk on WIFFOM. if KF gets pushed to L-1 I may remove vote to prevent a hammer because ending the day too quickly feels like a bad idea to me, regardless of who we lynch... who knows, maybe we'll get actual content devoid of endless quote blocks, a mild shrug, and then a brainless vote.

[Liosan]

fuck, xpost with omtose, KF is at L-1 now so i'm tempted to remove.

omtose, as others said, you've been quiet recently - any change you have time to talk now? this is the second day in a row where you've just kinda hopped on and voted KF, care to explain more?

[Karosis]

Liosan, I'm unsure if you are really that into it or feigning frustration.

I can vote for KF for the sole reason that if we mess that lynch again we will waste more time talking and trying again later.

Also, I would like to look at Ryll. There is something at the back of my mind there with him. I will look into it once I get home.

We still have time so I agree we don't need to rush KF votes.

[Liosan]

uhh haha....that was me restraining myself, so you can make up your own mind if I like or dislike it when people get tunnel vision on WIFOM. it's nice to hear from you karosis! (finally...). any response to the comments I made on your only other post of value? or was this just a modkill timer post?

also let me

remove vote

as we were at L-1

i wait for your response and readup on Ryll with anticipation. seems like everyone has to drop in and go recently, waiting on omtose too...

[Demelain]

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Demelain, on 08 October 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

The other possible reason for a Lio vote was his end of day case on Fandaray before Fan's NK which was seen as distancing. I think that coupled by Emur's too early vote are a case.

Distancing from what? Their NK target?

Yes

Yeah, I got that, I can read, but, come one, distancing themselves from a NK target on day 1, why on earth would Liosan do that? I mean, they had hardly any contact with Fandery and had, what, 10 other players to hide amongst if it was indeed their night kill. Even if you consider WIFOM-ing like "Maybe Liosan expected us to think it would be ridiculous to do" it does not make sense, as the only thing the attempt could ever do was to cause this sort of attention, even if it's a WIFOM discussion. (Think about it, had Lioson not done so, he wouldn't have gotten this attention) I just don't see the incentive for distancing, here.

Omtose, on 08 October 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

vote kadagan fant
Work/trsvel day, in airport, will be home in a few hours

Liosan, on 08 October 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

fuck, xpost with omtose, KF is at L-1 now so i'm tempted to remove.

omtose, as others said, you've been quiet recently - any change you have time to talk now? this is the second day in a row where you've just kinda hopped on and voted KF, care to explain more?

I'll hold of voting. We have plenty of time and Omtose said that they will be back in a couple of hours. As there's plenty of time left in the day, I think it's best to get the thoughts out in the thread.

Karosis, on 08 October 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

I can vote for KF for the sole reason that if we mess that lynch again we will waste more time talking and trying again later.

Also, I would like to look at Ryll. There is something at the back of my mind there with him. I will look into it once I get home.

Sole reason: Does that mean that it would be your only reason or that it would be reason enough in itself, but you think he might be scum also?

On Ryll, I agree with you. I have a strange feeling about them, too. Now Ryll is claiming that he said he didn't know, but he must have forgotten our earlier "conversation" about Emur's vote, as I quoted this post during that:

Ryllandaras, on 06 October 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

I think that Emur is a symp, and this was misdirection. Definitely something to look out for.

Later he confirmed his conviction that it was a fake signal when I confronted him:

Ryllandaras, on 06 October 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

Demelain, on 06 October 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

However, if they are so convinced that it was a misdirection, they fail to mention who or what Emur was misdirecting from. As I think it's better to go after a killer than a symp, I would expect Ryll's investigation to end up there, not sticking with the hypothesized symp.

So, misdirection, from what or who?

And if you don't have a clue, Ryll, why are you're stating it like it's a fact? Odd.

I see Omtose' point about looking at the symps rather than killers. What I meant about misdirection is getting people to look at Liosan as a fake signal. Draw attention to himself and create a lot of wrong discussion on thread. I didn't want yo focus solely on Emur I was just commenting on what I saw but Omtose made it something more than what it was.

And now he certainly wasn't sure, so he could use the total opposite, it was a true signal, to make a case?

[Ryllandaras]

What's your point Dem? You're quoting posts on day one before we found out for sure that Emur was scum. On day one it could've been 50 50 whether he was the symp or not. So we're left with 2 choices. One in which it was misdirection and one I'm which it was signalling.

You can take the high road and give the benefit of the doubt but I don't want to have to make that choice further down the road.

[Demelain]

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

What's your point Dem? You're quoting posts on day one before we found out for sure that Emur was scum. On day one it could've been 50 50 whether he was the symp or not. So we're left with 2 choices. One in which it was misdirection and one I'm which it was signalling.

That does not make sense. You're saying that if he was RI, it was a fake signal and misdirection to cause confusion on the thread, but now "we found out for sure" that he's scum, it's suddenly a true signal. Why would RI do the former? I think both of your scenarios presume Emur was scum, so "finding that out" wouldn't suddenly make one become more likely than the other or am I missing something because it's again way past bedtime?

I'll be back after a good night of sleep.

[Karosis]

Liosan, do you mean your #170 post commenting on my take on the whole Em kerfuffle? There is nothing to respond to as you didn't ask a question or anything. Just your refutation. If you want something specific cleared up, ask, but I think that everything that should have been said on that topic, was. I was never 100% convinced what I proposed but it seems 2 more people are following the same path. Which bring me to Ryll.

Now about Ryll. Even though he kind of repeats what I said as well (or at least now), what is not sitting well with me how he is attacking the same problem with different ideas.

Reading the thread over again, now I see what was bothering me, and Demelain already called him out on it, post #200

Ryll first was saying that Em's vote was a misdirection, and a false signal to Liosan, and now his theory is that in fact that Em's vote is a real signal towards Liosan.

I don't like the flip flopping. Having a "crazy" theory is one thing, but changing the concept while still focusing on the same outcome is another. Seems forced.

[Kadagar Fant]

Omtose, on 08 October 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

vote kadagan fant
Work/trsvel day, in airport, will be home in a few hours

Ok what's with the drive-by vote when there is still lots of time left in the day? Scummy.

[Kadagar Fant]

Liosan, on 08 October 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

wow, so both KF and ryll are on the same mindless train of thought. holy fuck. you are all morons.

do you guys understand why we don't speculate on NKs? BECAUSE IT IS POINTLESS. shit, man, do you guys not get that it is EQUALLY POSSIBLE that the killers NK'd fanderay for THE VERY REASON of making my comments about him lead you into suspicion? I mean....really? why not take it further into WIFOM territory? after I posted my fanderay case and emur was lynched, anom accused me of setting up a day 2 lynch on fanderay. gee, I guess the only possiblility is that i killed fanderay before anom said that and then decided to kill anom the next night because he was accusing me of setting fanderay up. i'm a fucking genius.

I didn't even have a SINLGE interaction with fanderay before I posted my "case" on him - not ONE - why the FUCK would i need to distance myself with a weak case on DAY ONE if ...THERE IS NOTHING TO DISTANCE MYSELF FROM?! NO INTERACTION WITH THE NK TARGET AT ALL??!?!? MUST BE DISTANCING OMG!!! god. or if i was going to kill fanderay, why the fuck would i come out of nowhere with a case about him pretending to act like a newb and using "mafia" instead of "Scum" and by doing so LINK US TOGETHER RIGHT BEFORE I KILL HIM? is it possible in any fucking universe for any of this to make sense to anyone? no. and that is why we call it WINE IN FUCKING FRONT OF ME. WIFFOM. NEW TERM FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND WIFOM.

====

deep breaths...

nothing has changed since yesterday and KF is still actively saying he buys this day 1 shit:

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

The other possible reason for a Lio vote was his end of day case on Fandaray before Fan's NK which was seen as distancing. I think that coupled by Emur's too early vote are a case.

no. that is not a case. mafia 101 for you.

it's stupidly unfortunate that Emur randomly voted me simply because I was sleeping 4 hours into day 1 and now I have to get all OMGUS on you fools but that is how it is, i'd vote you regardless

vote kadagar fant

I would like to hear back from people who are absent (Omtose, Karosis) and from the three stooges above who are drunk on WIFFOM. if KF gets pushed to L-1 I may remove vote to prevent a hammer because ending the day too quickly feels like a bad idea to me, regardless of who we lynch... who knows, maybe we'll get actual content devoid of endless quote blocks, a mild shrug, and then a brainless vote.

You got one vote on you... Spazzing out much?