[Ryllandaras]

Another player that bothers me is Aparal Forge. 2 posts about reasons for the night kill like he wants us to engage in WIFOM all day.

[Monok Ochem]

We have a piddly hour to decide on a course of action. Personally, even if Emur was a symp, I never understood why voting for someone would be a 'signal'. Or indeed, why a symp would bother signalling through anything other than their game-wide actions assisting the scum.

[Ryllandaras]

If that's the case then it looks as though we aren't lynching today. I'll switch my vote if need be but we need the numbers around to push one through

[Ryllandaras]

No one around? Let's just give them a free ride! Ffs

[Ryllandaras]

I'm driving for the next 2 hours minimum.

remove vote

Vote kadagar fant

He's got the most votes currently. Hopefully more people will arrive.

[Kadagar Fant]

How many votes are the "most" votes against me? 3?

Why would I be scum and yet be on the middle of a vote train of someone that turns out to be lying about their reveal (hello Emur=Scum). We all know that the middle votes turn the tide.

Now this is my reasoning on Emur and Omtose, a lot of it is based on gut, but since we know Emur was likely a symp and he didn't post a lot of detailed messages, I believe his exchange with Omtose was to reveal that he knew who Omtose's partner was. This would be Ryllandras or Monok Ochem. Now while I don't know which of the 2 he was hinting about, (I suspect Monok because he started going after me when I was linking Omtose to Day 1) I do believe that Omtose was the one he was giving the message to.

[Demelain]

Aparal Forge, on 08 October 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

I actually did have that in my sights, but I had too many quote blocks. I deleted a couple. I meant to go add it later but couldn't mainly due to mobile.

Fanderay was conscious of a lot, and he challenged more than just Ryll. To scum that made him a dangerous player. He may have been NKd because of that alone or because he focussed on Ryll.

I think Liosan's late surge on him may have been a way of deflecting NK suspicion.

Okay, sounds reasonable, but I want to put down why I was questioning you. The day is almost done (I think), so I want to put some thoughts down. So far, we've only discussed a couple of players and most don't get much attention even if someone's says they're suspicious. So, when going back to Fanderay's thoughts, I would at least expect you to include all the players he was suspicious about. If people want more context on the suspicions, they have to read back anyway to see what other players had to see about the "accusation" or thought. What you did was quoting a lot of posts, including things that are not directly relevant to identifying Fanderay's suspicion on active players (half to posts are on Emurlahn or symp hunting). So, if you did have limited resources (maximum of quote blocks), why waste so many on Fanderay's post repeating stuff, but then excluding the actual suspicions Fanderay had on other players?

I think the selection or selectivity was odd and might lead, again, to tunnel vision. You could better have spend those precious quote blocks on the other suspicions Fanderay had, as now it looks like you were really
just setting up a single player for a lynch selectively using Fanderay's thoughts (I want to nail Ryll, let's see if I can use Fand) instead of identifying scum from Fanderay's thoughts (Here are Fanderay's suspicions, I would like to investigate this player for something is off.)

Whether or not someone believes that analyzing a NK is that simple or leads to WIFOM and distraction is not really relevant. I agree that looking couldn't hurt, especially if there's not much else going and because I think that the killers will attempt to take out players who they perceive as strong or dangerous. Fanderay is a great example for this, as he put some many thoughts down, the killers may hope Fand's thoughts on them get lost in the noise. (Something that might happen if we do go down that road, but start focusing on just one of the thoughts Fand had).

---

On the current day,

[Demelain]

Okay, I accidentally hit "Add Reply" instead of "Preview Post", I'll continue my story in the next post.

[Path-Shaper]

Around about 30 minutes ago....

It is now Day 2. 0 hours remaining.

There are 10 players left alive: Anomandaris, Aparal Forge, Demelain, Kadagar Fant, Karosis, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Ryllandaras

6 votes to lynch. 5 votes to go to Night.

3 votes Kadagar Fant: Monok Ochem, Liosan, Ryllandarars
1 vote Omtose: Kadagar Fant



Players not voted: Anomandaris, Aparal Forge, Demelain, Kadagar Fant, Karosis, Liosan, Mockra, Omtose, Ryllandaras

The day ends without a lynch.

[Path-Shaper]

As you prowl the streets at night you think to yourself: "This'll be the night!" You're certain, you think, that you'll finally find a werewolf! You are, however, very wrong. So was Anomandaris, because...

Anomandaris has been killed. He was HoosierDaddy and a Roleless Innocent.

It is now Day 3. 36 hours left.

There are 9 players left alive: Aparal Forge, Demelain, Kadagar Fant, Karosis, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Ryllandaras

5 votes to lynch. 5 votes to go to Night.



Players not voted: Aparal Forge, Demelain, Kadagar Fant, Karosis, Liosan, Mockra, Monok Ochem, Omtose, Ryllandaras

[Mockra]

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

How many votes are the "most" votes against me? 3?

Why would I be scum and yet be on the middle of a vote train of someone that turns out to be lying about their reveal (hello Emur=Scum). We all know that the middle votes turn the tide.

Because when you placed the vote, unless you are the real healer, you don't know the guy is lying when you place the vote.

So, one could reverse the argument. If we are in a vacuum and you are not the real healer yet you did place the lynchpin vote, you willingly condemned a guy who could be the healer to death.

And if you are scum and know your partner, your vote kills someone with a town CF. Which furthers your VC.
And if you are the symp, you know the killers, and assuming you're not moronic enough to vote for them on a train that gathers steam, you also know the lynch will kill someone from the town.

of course, this is not in a vacuum and Gnaw wasn't exactly playing like the productive townie ever, but your argument tries too hard to get town credit for a thing that would benefit scum just as much.

Quote

Now this is my reasoning on Emur and Omtose, a lot of it is based on gut, but since we know Emur was likely a symp and he didn't post a lot of detailed messages, I believe his exchange with Omtose was to reveal that he knew who Omtose's partner was. This would be Ryllandras or Monok Ochem. Now while I don't know which of the 2 he was hinting about, (I suspect Monok because he started going after me when I was linking Omtose to Day 1) I do believe that Omtose was the one he was giving the message to.

We know nothing of the like, we just don't have a good explanation for his behaviour. It is lazy to assume he was the symp and it is dangerous as well. It also suits your explanation of why your vote makes you an inno.

The second underlined means that in signaling to one scum partner that he was the symp, he also outed the second scum? Come on, even if Gnaw was not on his best game, this is too stupid a move to be true: it would out the entire scum team in one go.

Your "case" is not gut. It is diarrhea. It may come from the same source but it's a different product entirely. And I think that you both proclaim your own innocence and accuse someone else in a single post, both on very iffy grounds, make you likely scum.

Vote Kadagar Fant.

[Kadagar Fant]

Mockra, on 08 October 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

How many votes are the "most" votes against me? 3?

Why would I be scum and yet be on the middle of a vote train of someone that turns out to be lying about their reveal (hello Emur=Scum). We all know that the middle votes turn the tide.

Because when you placed the vote, unless you are the real healer, you don't know the guy is lying when you place the vote.

So, one could reverse the argument. If we are in a vacuum and you are not the real healer yet you did place the lynchpin vote, you willingly condemned a guy who could be the healer to death.

And if you are scum and know your partner, your vote kills someone with a town CF. Which furthers your VC.
And if you are the symp, you know the killers, and assuming you're not moronic enough to vote for them on a train that gathers steam, you also know the lynch will kill someone from the town.

of course, this is not in a vacuum and Gnaw wasn't exactly playing like the productive townie ever, but your argument tries too hard to get town credit for a thing that would benefit scum just as much.

Quote

Now this is my reasoning on Emur and Omtose, a lot of it is based on gut, but since we know Emur was likely a symp and he didn't post a lot of detailed messages, I believe his exchange with Omtose was to reveal that he knew who Omtose's partner was. This would be Ryllandras or Monok Ochem. Now while I don't know which of the 2 he was hinting about, (I suspect Monok because he started going after me when I was linking Omtose to Day 1) I do believe that Omtose was the one he was giving the message to.

We know nothing of the like, we just don't have a good explanation for his behaviour. It is lazy to assume he was the symp and it is dangerous as well. It also suits your explanation of why your vote makes you an inno.

The second underlined means that in signaling to one scum partner that he was the symp, he also outed the second scum? Come on, even if Gnaw was not on his best game, this is too stupid a move to be true: it would out the entire scum team in one go.

Your "case" is not gut. It is diarrhea. It may come from the same source but it's a different product entirely. And I think that you both proclaim your own innocence and accuse someone else in a single post, both on very iffy grounds, make you likely scum.

Vote Kadagar Fant.

Your case it is shit. It's all based on wifom.

Now let's get into NK logics... Ano was actually defending me earlier in the thread. So why would I NK someone that may possibly help keep me alive?

[Kadagar Fant]

I assume you are all going to try and speed lynch me while I'm at work, since we didn't get a day 2 lynch

vote omtose

I would be willing to switch to Monok

[Mockra]

Anomandaris, on 06 October 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

Kadagar looks like they are trying to participate.

I wouldn't call this a defense. I wouldn't call it approval either. I could possibly consider it a pat on the head for well-intentioned incompetence, but "looks like they're trying" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[Monok Ochem]

So far the killers have offed the highest two posters - going for the silence the town strategy?

My suspicions of Kadagar still hold, and I'm happy to see others coming round. For the sake of those who don't feel like going back to read up, it is not only based on the seemingly faulty logic link-up of Emurlahn and Omtose, but also their day 1 play - having earlier voted for Omtose, KF removed their vote once things starting leaning toward Emurlahn. They then made a weedy statement about Emur being suspicious, but without committing a vote, i.e. waiting to see if more people would start going along that way before joining in themselves, rather than simply laying down a vote there and then.


Vote Kadagar Fant

[Ryllandaras]

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

How many votes are the "most" votes against me? 3?

Why would I be scum and yet be on the middle of a vote train of someone that turns out to be lying about their reveal (hello Emur=Scum). We all know that the middle votes turn the tide.

Now this is my reasoning on Emur and Omtose, a lot of it is based on gut, but since we know Emur was likely a symp and he didn't post a lot of detailed messages, I believe his exchange with Omtose was to reveal that he knew who Omtose's partner was. This would be Ryllandras or Monok Ochem. Now while I don't know which of the 2 he was hinting about, (I suspect Monok because he started going after me when I was linking Omtose to Day 1) I do believe that Omtose was the one he was giving the message to.

With under an hour left in the day, 2 votes on you, 1 on Omtose, 1 on Liosan taking you to 3 votes was our best shot at getting a lynch.

[Ryllandaras]

I'm still going to

vote liosan

For the reasons I said before. Gnaw can be blatant about things like this and I think his later play was back tracking. It's made you all look elsewhere rather than the elephant in the room.

[Monok Ochem]

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm still going to

vote liosan

For the reasons I said before. Gnaw can be blatant about things like this and I think his later play was back tracking. It's made you all look elsewhere rather than the elephant in the room.

Well, your argument rests on Emur signalling his masters by voting them. He voted for two people, Liosan and myself. Now, I know that I am a townie. This therefore also makes me doubt then the second half of your hypothesis, that Liosan would be scum based on the same link.

Basically, from my own perspective, your case is not strong enough.

[Demelain]

Kadagar Fant, on 08 October 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

Your case it is shit. It's all based on wifom.

Now let's get into NK logics... Ano was actually defending me earlier in the thread. So why would I NK someone that may possibly help keep me alive?

Your aversion to WIFOM cuts both ways, you know. Not only do I not think that Anomandaris was really defending you, he didn't object when Monok Ochem likened you to a player he found suspicious, Aparal, I could easily argue that you wouldn't want to kill one of your accusers when they are so vocal and the defence "but he was defending me"* was a nice plus for you in addition to killing a vocal D1 player. That's all WIFOM, I know, but so is your defence.

*) As stated, I don't think he was really defending you, but it's your perception of him defending you that mattered here.

[Demelain]

Ryllandaras, on 08 October 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm still going to

vote liosan

For the reasons I said before. Gnaw can be blatant about things like this and I think his later play was back tracking. It's made you all look elsewhere rather than the elephant in the room.

What? The only reason being the early game vote? That's weak and you know it. Yesterday, you were the one claiming that early vote was actually a false signal, put down by "symp Emur" to misdirect us. Now you claim you think it was an actual signal and to pursue it. It's like Schrödinger's WIFOM, it's both a true and a false signal at the same time.

If you really want to make a case on Liosan, then actually do so and use Liosan's behaviour. Not only is your current case so weak it could easily be misdirection, it does not even call out Liosan on anything they did or wrote, so it's not going get much information on thread from Liosan as well.