[JPK]

If the Democratic leadership has any sense left at all, they need to fully line up behind these kids from Parkland and court them. They are leaders, plain and simple. With a bit of development they could easily become the new face of the dems, and they SHOULD be, because they are definitely the future of the party (if it has one).

This post has been edited by JPK: 21 February 2018 - 05:27 PM

[QuickTidal]

JPK, on 21 February 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

If the Democratic leadership has any sense left at all, they need to fully line up behind these kids from Parkland and court them. They are leaders, plain and simple. With a bit of development they could easily become the new face of the dems, and they SHOULD be, because they are definitely the future of the party (if it has one).

Yep, I 100% agree.

[Nevyn]

There is a real danger in movements, especially at particular times and in particular places, to overreact based on the loudest voices, based on the conclusion drawn in the moment, and to also assume way more uniformity of opinion than is actually there.

The arab spring didn't really fix much
The occupy wall streeters did not accurate represent the views of the 99%, even if they felt they represented their interests.
People clicking like and retweet about #metoo stories don't mean that every career mentioned in those stories is over.
And just because there are schoolkids at rallies or on the news telling lawmakers their generation will kill guns, doesn't actually mean young people are overwhelmingly supporting gun control.

Some problems, you can count on time and demographics to solve. Many others, what you need are moderate voices, people willing to listen to dissent, and people who go into things without their minds made up.

[worry]

Killing guns isn't the point. Not sure where that came from. Changing our gun culture is the point, and that's already happening.

I've posted this before, where it related to partisanship, but what it shows more generally is that it really does depend on how you present "gun control" when polling:


I don't discount the CNN article, but it does include adults of all parties under 35, which gets into the older millennial cohort too (and doesn't include Gen Z). Which is fine because I'm talking generally about a generation (or 1.5 generations I guess), but I think you'll find when you get to the nuances things are more interesting even w/ millennials. For instance, this article doesn't disagree with those findings, but delves a little further into distinctions: https://www.politico...-on-guns-215703

And in terms of the 'moderates' you're talking about, as far as I'm concerned they're already there. 50% of people across the board support generic "gun control" -- way more, when you break it down to individual proposals (and as you know, that doesn't mean 50% vs. 50%, it's 50% vs. like something in the 30s, and then a know-nothing chunk that hovers around 10%). And that's everyone, with a multi-million dollar disinformation campaign and literally no fact-based information campaign to counter it. Imagine how things would be different if a gun control campaign arose w/ even a quarter of the ubiquity of the anti-smoking movement. The moderates exist, it's the organizing and leadership that's been absent.

I don't see a big danger in people getting excited about nascent movements. I'd argue there's much more danger in listening to so-called 'voices of moderation' who roll their eyes at nascent movements that don't produce immediate results, not because they care about the advancement of the issue but because they profit from the status quo and/or trolling. Kowtowing to dissent for its own sake, even from liars and morons, is how you end up with a slate of the world's foremost dumbasses like David Brooks talking gun control, Bret Stephens talking climate science, Bari Weiss talking #MeToo, and countless "let's hear them out" gentle profiles of neo-Nazis and Trump voters at the "paper of record".

[HoosierDaddy]

This fucking White House "Listening" session is fucking abhorable. There are legitimate stacked people in their for the NRA point by point.

"Arm teachers"

"It's not the guns, let's pay attention to the issue" which was an entirely orchestrated family which made me want to fucking puke.

Fuck this shit. Nothing is going to happen because Trump's minders have already made up their minds.

[HoosierDaddy]

Nevermind, that kid is just coached horribly. I feel bad for him. He's going to get meme'd.

[Lady Bliss]

H. D., on 21 February 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

This fucking White House "Listening" session is fucking abhorable. There are legitimate stacked people in their for the NRA point by point.

"Arm teachers"

"It's not the guns, let's pay attention to the issue" which was an entirely orchestrated family which made me want to fucking puke.

Fuck this shit. Nothing is going to happen because Trump's minders have already made up their minds.

I hate hearing the arm the teachers solution. Most of them don’t want to be armed. They just want to go to their low paying jobs to teach kids, and not get shot at while doing it.

[HoosierDaddy]

All of my family are teachers. I don't want them armed or to have that responsibility. It's ludicrous.

[Nicodimas]

H. D., on 21 February 2018 - 10:40 PM, said:

All of my family are teachers. I don't want them armed or to have that responsibility. It's ludicrous.

I had this great post, but accidently deleted it.

Essentially this would be a great time to bridge the teacher shortage with military members. It would be a great if little Johnny was being a shit to the teacher send him to the friendly Marine Corp vet for PT. The military is well respected so these soldiers would be doing a patroic duty in helping protect and educate our future. These members would be working on their own education too! The military education core.

Tons of upside.

[Nevyn]

Ptsd, automatic weapons, and annoying children. What could possibly go wrong?

[Nicodimas]

Nevyn, on 22 February 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Ptsd, automatic weapons, and annoying children. What could possibly go wrong?

Wow. Your worldview is sad. You should go out more and talk to some military people. You will probably find a bunch of great human beings.

Since this is a thread is about culture of America I would watch:


Great guy with many many good talking points.

[worry]

I may have an idea that doesn't involve forcing neglected, unemployed veterans to become human meat shields to protect our kids from mass slaughter, but it would mean a minuscule portion of the American populace would have to endure a few minor limits on one of their hobbies, so it's like...hmmmm, what to do, what to do.

[Tsundoku]

Indeed, quite the dilemma.

[Malankazooie]

The chewed up piece of orange bubble gum is listening. He put it on his notes as a reminder when meeting students about the shootings today.

[Macros]

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Number of downloads: 0

[QuickTidal]

This kid is awesome. He's like a dog with a bone, and Rubio simply cannot answer his request...this just shows you how WORRIED these clowns are about their power (and the lobbies that provide it)...that even the simple request of "don't accept money from the NRA" from a kid who is near voting age goes unanswered, and sidestepped with some mealy mouthed bullshit about the 2nd amendment. Fuck Rubio, and everyone like him.

https://twitter.com/...%26autosize%3D1

[Cause]

A gun free school is a magnet for gun violence?

What a bizarre statement.

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 22 February 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

A gun free school is a magnet for gun violence?

What a bizarre statement.

I would say so....especially because the world is FILLED with gun free schools.

I've also seen the super strange argument of "if you take away people's rights to have automatic weapons in their homes...what if a criminal KNEW they were at home with no decent guns, huh?!".....and I'm like "You mean like most of the planet? We do okay man. Your straw man might be falling apart though...perhaps your rifle can hold it up?"

[Obdigore]

QuickTidal, on 22 February 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

Cause, on 22 February 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

A gun free school is a magnet for gun violence?

What a bizarre statement.

I would say so....especially because the world is FILLED with gun free schools.

I've also seen the super strange argument of "if you take away people's rights to have automatic weapons in their homes...what if a criminal KNEW they were at home with no decent guns, huh?!".....and I'm like "You mean like most of the planet? We do okay man. Your straw man might be falling apart though...perhaps your rifle can hold it up?"

The next comment from those same people are 'Criminals don't follow laws', and the only possible response is 'Well fuck it then, lets just get rid of all laws, then there aren't any criminals.'

[Cause]

Obdigore, on 22 February 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 22 February 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

Cause, on 22 February 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

A gun free school is a magnet for gun violence?

What a bizarre statement.

I would say so....especially because the world is FILLED with gun free schools.

I've also seen the super strange argument of "if you take away people's rights to have automatic weapons in their homes...what if a criminal KNEW they were at home with no decent guns, huh?!".....and I'm like "You mean like most of the planet? We do okay man. Your straw man might be falling apart though...perhaps your rifle can hold it up?"

The next comment from those same people are 'Criminals don't follow laws', and the only possible response is 'Well fuck it then, lets just get rid of all laws, then there aren't any criminals.'

That logic is actually flawless!