[Tiste Simeon]

[Tsundoku]

American school shooting? Must be a day ending in "y".

That wasn't just sarcasm, it was also heartsick resignation and thoroughly depressed acceptance.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 15 February 2018 - 10:09 AM

[worry]

19 so far this year. And that’s school shootings, not mass shootings more generally.

[Primateus]

worry, on 15 February 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

This is a heartbreaking and terrifying thing...

[Khazduk]

19 17 people, that's about 1/1000 of the gun deaths in 'Murica a year, give or take?

Edit, sry for typo.

This post has been edited by Khazduk: 15 February 2018 - 12:20 PM

[Brujah]

Parkland Florida was voted the 15th safest city in the U.S. and THE safest city in Florida last year.

Horrible situation. I can't imagine being one of those parents.

[QuickTidal]

I generally stopped paying attention after Sandy Hook. Sorry. It is what it is. Americans have had Democrats and Republicans in charge enough to change things a few times over the last 20 years (as far as I can tell)...and no one does shit. Ever. Even mild changes are rejected with hard passes. The NRA, which used to be a sporting organization has become a giant, money-shitting lobby that keeps everything where it wants it to be. This coupled with the American culture around guns, and owning them...means nothing is going to change. It's going to take more than a few people in charge with balls of solid, unwavering rock to make changes that stick.

The Onion always says it best.

"Nothing could have been done to avoid this, says only country where this regularly happens"

It's a shame that the US could not have had Sandy Hook have been their Dunblane, or Ecole Polytechnique, or Port Arthur watershed moment that forced change on the laws from a horrified populace.

That it didn't is both heartbreaking, and telling.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 15 February 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

I generally stopped paying attention after Sandy Hook. Sorry. It is what it is. Americans have had Democrats and Republicans in charge enough to change things a few times over the last 20 years (as far as I can tell)...and no one does shit. Ever. Even mild changes are rejected with hard passes. The NRA, which used to be a sporting organization has become a giant, money-shitting lobby that keeps everything where it wants it to be. This coupled with the American culture around guns, and owning them...means nothing is going to change. It's going to take more than a few people in charge with balls of solid, unwavering rock to make changes that stick.

The Onion always says it best.

"Nothing could have been done to avoid this, says only country where this regularly happens"

It's a shame that the US could not have had Sandy Hook have been their Dunblane, or Ecole Polytechnique, or Port Arthur watershed moment that forced change on the laws from a horrified populace.

That it didn't is both heartbreaking, and telling.

It reflects two very unsettling facts about the USA

1. A frightening lack of empathy and a poisonous self-centredness - people are so utterly obsessed over their perceived rights, privileges and liberties, they cannot think of bringing change because children are dying. It really does seem that to these people the suffering of victims is not real but only exists to serve as talking points.

2. The degree to which people are just ok with letting unelected, private, corporate organizations and pressure groups control the government. The degree of influence that the NRA and similar organizations wield is scary, and should in my opinion be illegal, but many don't care.

The last few decades has seen corporate entities making ruthless use of the credulity of the public to craft schools of opinion that are uninformed, toxic and dangerous. The result is a country that is ruled by the few in their interests while millions of deluded fools mash out incoherent rage on keyboards.

[QuickTidal]

....and the president just blamed (not guns or mental health, but) the community for "not reporting this mentally ill kid enough to the police"

I have no words.

That a sitting president of your country just VICTIM BLAMED the grieving community of a school shooting as his official statement....is a level of shitflinging after a tragedy that I didn't even think he was capable of. Sweet gods.

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 15 February 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

....and the president just blamed (not guns or mental health, but) the community for "not reporting this mentally ill kid enough to the police"

I have no words.

That a sitting president of your country just VICTIM BLAMED the grieving community of a school shooting as his official statement....is a level of shitflinging after a tragedy that I didn't even think he was capable of. Sweet gods.

Strangely, his tweet did not wish the shooter well in his career nor suggest that we follow due process before ruining his life.

[EmperorMagus]

Nevyn, on 15 February 2018 - 07:08 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 February 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

....and the president just blamed (not guns or mental health, but) the community for "not reporting this mentally ill kid enough to the police"

I have no words.

That a sitting president of your country just VICTIM BLAMED the grieving community of a school shooting as his official statement....is a level of shitflinging after a tragedy that I didn't even think he was capable of. Sweet gods.

Strangely, his tweet did not wish the shooter well in his career nor suggest that we follow due process before ruining his life.

I guess that's what you call progress in these strange times?

[Puck]

QuickTidal, on 15 February 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

....and the president just blamed (not guns or mental health, but) the community for "not reporting this mentally ill kid enough to the police"

I have no words.

That a sitting president of your country just VICTIM BLAMED the grieving community of a school shooting as his official statement....is a level of shitflinging after a tragedy that I didn't even think he was capable of. Sweet gods.

Except the FBI apparently was aware. But why would one expect the US president to be informed?

[Nicodimas]

Puck, on 15 February 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 February 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

....and the president just blamed (not guns or mental health, but) the community for "not reporting this mentally ill kid enough to the police"

I have no words.

That a sitting president of your country just VICTIM BLAMED the grieving community of a school shooting as his official statement....is a level of shitflinging after a tragedy that I didn't even think he was capable of. Sweet gods.

Except the FBI apparently was aware. But why would one expect the US president to be informed?

The FBI got a tip about a YouTube post , but did not follow up on it. So the person they interviewed was just the person who gave the tip essentially. I am sure the FBI gets a ton of these

Trump’s statement looks like more of a report these people up the chain. Though I agree kind of unrealistic as people hands are tied. However probably due to modern laws you can’t really hold someone against there will, remove rights from a person just based off mere statements.

[worry]

I hate to be a broken record on this, but the vast majority of Americans (including the majority of Republicans, and on some measures the majority of NRA members) support gun control. The actual gun nuts are as fringe as you'd hope them to be (it's a huge country, so the raw #s might be frightening still, but you know what I mean). The NRA makes its money not from memberships, nor does it do its lobbying on behalf of members -- it's all about the industry. Impediments to reform are largely a money-in-politics issue.

[Slow Ben]

I tell ya, I never get tired of the “arming our teachers “ suggestion.

[EmperorMagus]

Slow Ben, on 15 February 2018 - 11:59 PM, said:

I tell ya, I never get tired of the “arming our teachers “ suggestion.

I love this one.

It's as if the US has an overabundance of trained teachers and can be choosy about them ...

Also as if the best trained teacher with a hand gun can remotely match the firepower of an AR-15.

Also the complete dogma involved in observing the world as it is and then arriving at this conclusion.

God it all pisses me off so much.

[HoosierDaddy]

Good news is that the younger generation is rejecting all this bullshit. They are accepting of all sorts of things that millenials and baby boomers would shit their pants about. Ridiculous gun laws? Not so much because they are the ones getting mowed down in schools in record numbers.

Progress is an upward arrow that slows from time to time.

[Andorion]

EmperorMagus, on 16 February 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

Slow Ben, on 15 February 2018 - 11:59 PM, said:

I tell ya, I never get tired of the "arming our teachers " suggestion.

I love this one.

It's as if the US has an overabundance of trained teachers and can be choosy about them ...

Also as if the best trained teacher with a hand gun can remotely match the firepower of an AR-15.

Also the complete dogma involved in observing the world as it is and then arriving at this conclusion.

God it all pisses me off so much.

The mental image gun advocates create is ridiculous. Schools, businesses and homes, all guarded by heavily armed civilians, pedestrians and drivers all carrying guns - its like they don't live in a civil state governed by rule of law, but rather some pseudo-medieval fantasy land where unknown dangers roam and everyone must be on their guard all the time.

[Maark Abbott]

Andorion, on 16 February 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 16 February 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

Slow Ben, on 15 February 2018 - 11:59 PM, said:

I tell ya, I never get tired of the "arming our teachers " suggestion.

I love this one.

It's as if the US has an overabundance of trained teachers and can be choosy about them ...

Also as if the best trained teacher with a hand gun can remotely match the firepower of an AR-15.

Also the complete dogma involved in observing the world as it is and then arriving at this conclusion.

God it all pisses me off so much.

The mental image gun advocates create is ridiculous. Schools, businesses and homes, all guarded by heavily armed civilians, pedestrians and drivers all carrying guns - its like they don't live in a civil state governed by rule of law, but rather some pseudo-medieval fantasy land where unknown dangers roam and everyone must be on their guard all the time.

I believe those are the 'muzlums' you hear Uncle Dolan talking so much about in his speeches?

EDIT: Specifically in respect of the 'unknown dangers' you reference.

This post has been edited by Maark Abbott: 16 February 2018 - 08:45 AM

[Tsundoku]

Victim's aunt says it straight.

http://www.news.com....ce1dbe80ef6aab8

Florida shooting victim’s aunt: ‘She probably had been kind to the student who shot her’
THE distraught aunt of a 14-year-old among the 17 people slain in the Florida school shooting has written a searing open letter.

THE grieving aunt of the first victim publicly identified in the Florida mass shooting has lashed out at the National Rifle Association and told America the family “doesn’t want your hopes and prayers”.

Student Jaime Guttenberg, 14, was killed by accused gunman Nikolas Cruz on Wednesday, when he allegedly shot his way into Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida and opened fire on dozens of people with a semi-automatic weapon. At least 17 teachers and students died and many more were injured.

Ms Guttenberg’s aunt Abbie Youkilis has written an open letter, provided exclusively to news.com.au, in response to the tragedy.

Dear America,

We buried my brother, Dr. Michael Guttenberg, this past October. He was a 9/11 hero and 16 years later he died of a 9/11 related cancer. Our country came together after the 9/11 terrorist attacks to overcome evil. We fought two wars, we subjected ourselves to onerous changes in air travel security, and we willingly gave up civil liberties to give ourselves the illusion of safety.

But we are not safe. This weekend we will bury my niece. Her name is Jaime Guttenberg and she was the 14 year-old daughter of my brother Fred and sister-in-law Jen. She was Jesse’s younger sister. Yesterday, she was murdered by a gun at her high school in Parkland Florida.

Jaime was in the 9th grade. She was a pretty girl with the world’s best smile and her soul was sensitive and compassionate. She was intelligent and feisty and she danced with beauty and grace. She always looked out for the underdog and the bullied and she probably had been kind to the student who shot her. She planned to grow up and become a mommy and an occupational therapist.

Fred and Jen are the world’s most loving and over-protective parents but they could not protect Jaime from the sickness that has gripped our country. Unless we change, nobody can protect us. My friends and fellow citizens, your guns are not protecting you. Your guns are killing our kids.

Why is your hunting hobby more important than my niece’s life? Don’t you see that your “second amendment” rights have been twisted and distorted beyond any rational interpretation? Why should my niece have been sacrificed at the altar of your “freedoms?”

Why don’t you trust our police to protect us from crime? Don’t you realise that mental illness has been and always will be a part of the human condition and that weapons of war should not be available to those among us who dream of mayhem and death? Don’t you see the blood on all of our hands?

I don’t care that Nikolas Cruz did this. If it had not been him, it would have been some other sad sick young man. I do care that he was able to legally purchase an assault weapon. I do care that the NRA and our so-called political leaders enabled him.

I don’t care if Nikolas spends the rest of his life in jail or gets the death penalty. That will not bring back Jaime and it won’t stop your kids from being the next victims of a “versatile, customizable” deadly weapon of war. I do care that the National Rifle Association (NRA) is dismantled. I do care that our Congress and our President (need to) outlaw these technologically sophisticated tools of murder just like every other civilised country on this planet. Failure to act will make our politicians complicit in Jaime’s murder. I want them to face charges and I want them brought to justice.

My family does not want your hopes and prayers. We want your action. Join us in fighting the NRA. Join us in deposing any politician who cares more about campaign contributions than my beautiful Jaime. Join us in supporting leaders who will bravely fight for our children’s lives.

Don’t tell me not to politicise this. Jaime would want me to. This is political and now this is personal. If not now, when? If not us, who? If we don’t finally ACT, the sickness of gun violence will kill us all.

Sincerely yours,

Abbie Youkilis MD

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 16 February 2018 - 09:51 AM