[Terez]

I'm sure getting pregnant is a top priority for Margaery, but it has to be unlikely from the story perspective, unless Margaery is going to get killed Talisa-style. We all know Tommen is going to die, and it seems unlikely that his heirs would inherit.

As for the Waif, it wouldn't surprise me if this is some kind of test for her too, but it looks like Arya is out. She couldn't bring herself to kill an innocent person, so what place does she have with the Faceless Men now? I doubt this is exactly how it will go in the books; she needs to take away a little something more from them for it to be worth anything, but the show is trying to cut corners to reach an ending at this point.

The summary for next week:

Quote

The High Sparrow eyes another target. Jaime confronts a hero. Arya makes a plan. The North is reminded.

The last two bits are obvious enough. What about the first two? Who would the High Sparrow's new target be? The Hound, maybe? I tend to doubt that because I doubt the Hound and the High Sparrow will personally interact in this episode, if the Hound is on the Quiet Isle or elsewhere Brienne might encounter him. Who else? Pycelle? Olenna? We see Olenna chastising Cersei in the preview for putting a pox on both their houses. And who is Jaime's hero? There aren't many heroes running around between King's Landing and Riverrun. Is it just the Blackfish? We saw them speaking in the preview. What makes the Blackfish such a hero? Just the fact that he rallied the troops to hold Riverrun? Maybe a bit of hyperbole.

[worry]

Oh I agree she's out of the Faceless Men. But she was never in and I don't believe for a second that Jaqen ever thought she would be. There's a long game here that has nothing to do with the penny-ante nonsense of hired assassinations, and perhaps much to do with why Jaqen was in Westeros in the first place.

I don't watch previews, so can't contribute there unfortunately.

[Terez]

It's hard for me to imagine why he would have recruited Arya if not to be a Faceless Man. What does she have to offer them? Jacquen proved that he was as skilled as an assassin can be, to the point that fans have always wondered how he ever managed to get caught. I'm not saying you're wrong; I just can't see where it's going, and I have more faith in GRRM to do something interesting with it than I do in the showrunners.

[worry]

I suppose what I'm saying is that the Faceless Men have an interest in the Ice and Fire stuff, and the assassin role is a front (or at least, a minor rite in comparison to world-threatening events). Arya has a role to play in the macro plot, and Jaqen has assisted in her preparation. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Many Faced God, for instance, doesn't take too kindly to the White Walkers raising zombies instead of leaving the dead alone. Plus it just intrigues me to see how a Faceless Man squares off against a zombie or a White Walker anyway. What happens to a Faceless Man when the Night's King tries to raise him? That kind of stuff.

In addition to that, it seems to make more sense to me that these resurrections of dead people by Red Priests is granted by the Many Faced God. According to Jaqen MFG is the only real god anyway, everything else is just a face, and if you're the god of death wouldn't you be the one to grant the rare path back from it?

Of course it wouldn't surprise me if none of these gods turned out to exist anyway, including MFG, but I'm still inclined to believe this cult has had their eyes on the big picture all along.

[amphibian]

worry, on 31 May 2016 - 12:01 AM, said:

Oh I agree she's out of the Faceless Men. But she was never in and I don't believe for a second that Jaqen ever thought she would be. There's a long game here that has nothing to do with the penny-ante nonsense of hired assassinations, and perhaps much to do with why Jaqen was in Westeros in the first place.

I don't watch previews, so can't contribute there unfortunately.

This is what I've been thinking for years (and said this upthread).

Either she's to be aimed at Cersei or maybe even the Night King, but Jacquen never, ever actually wanted her to be a Faceless Man. The reinforcements of her Aryaness are counterproductive to actually making her a Faceless Man.

[Andorion]

Can I just say that the Sam sequence was extremely annoying and a waste of time?

Its like Sam's entire character arc regresses the second he steps off the Wall. He just sits there and takes it. And then he does one of the most moronic things ever. He steals Heartsbane. Randyll Tarly is vindictive. The first thing he does in the morning is send out hunting parties in every direction. Given his position in the Reach he should have zero trouble capturing them. This is Kingsmoot level stupid.

Dany makes the entire Khalasar her Bloodriders. Did they not realize that if she does die, they all have to die? It will make the Dothraki semi extinct.

Also can Dany feel the dragons in her mind? How else did she know Drogon was there?


The show has clearly settled on a very different character arc for Cersei and Jaime. Which makes the idea of a Jaime Brienne meeting in the Riverlands interesting.

Freys were hilarious.

And Benjen. Called it! Thing is how much did Bran see? Only the past, or also the future?

[worry]

Absolutely loved the Horn Hill scenes, personally. Sam is -- and always will be -- prone to cowardice. There's no "arc" from there, it's who he is, most especially in the face of his father. He's a freezer. But his change of heart when no longer in the presence of his father can be seen in line with his actual arc -- which isn't from coward to non-coward, but coward who always freezes to coward somehow finds the fortitude to push through the freeze.

The sword thing, yah, definitely a bit undercooked. But it's in line with Sam actually knowing there's more at stake than family legacy, while everyone else is stuck on stupid re: the White Walkers.

[Andorion]

worry, on 31 May 2016 - 01:33 AM, said:

Absolutely loved the Horn Hill scenes, personally. Sam is -- and always will be -- prone to cowardice. There's no "arc" from there, it's who he is, most especially in the face of his father. He's a freezer. But his change of heart when no longer in the presence of his father can be seen in line with his actual arc -- which isn't from coward to non-coward, but coward who always freezes to coward somehow finds the fortitude to push through the freeze.

The sword thing, yah, definitely a bit undercooked. But it's in line with Sam actually knowing there's more at stake than family legacy, while everyone else is stuck on stupid re: the White Walkers.

Throughout Season 5 Sam was quite dynamic. he came up with ideas, he became quite assertive when it came to Gilly, he actually fought. Where did all that go?

Also knowing the sword will be necessary is one thing. Having a plan to get away with it is another.

[worry]

It got stuffed into a crevasse in the back of his mind while the rest of him was stuck with his domineering father, the primary source of his lifelong overwhelming pain and shame.

[Terez]

Yeah, Sam never told her the story about how his father threatened to kill him. She doesn't really understand how much Sam fears him.

Does anyone else think Dickon might be killed by a White Walker?

[Terez]

Yes, that would be the point. It's probably actually unlikely.

Was anyone else kind of taken aback when the Waif revealed that Jaquen had promised her the right to kill Arya if Arya failed her test? I suppose that could be a window into the worry/phib scenario. Isn't it against their philosophy to kill people for personal motive?

I brought up a few episodes ago that it seemed they were particularly interested in Arya's list, and maybe had plans to see it completed one way or another. Wert expressed extreme skepticism on that point because it's against the FM philosophy.

Since the Waif wants to kill Arya personally, has she failed her own test already? Or is her desire acceptable because it stems from Arya's inability to serve the MFG properly? (Assuming that is even true.) Or is her grudge being used to test Arya's skills? May the best assassin win?

I tend to doubt that the FM have been hired to take out Cersei specifically. My best guess is that they've been hired by the Iron Bank to assist in regime change when the time comes, which could definitely include Cersei, even though we know they needn't bother. That would be a conceivable reason for the FM to want Arya to keep her identity; her identity could be useful to them.

Now I'm wondering if Sansa will die and Tyrion will make Arya his queen. That would be awesome. It would make irony out of Sansa's queen foreshadowing.

Edit: I wonder if the Iron Bank and the Faceless Men have an old relationship. What better representation of the Many-Faced God could there be than coin?

Edit 2: I did some googling and apparently this is a semi-popular theory with some book evidence to support it, like the tunnels under Braavos, the question of how the temple's money is used, and the fact that the Iron Bank is known for using assassins.

This post has been edited by Terez: 31 May 2016 - 03:23 AM

[amphibian]

How many FM have we seen in the show? Just two + Arya? The books appear to only have about ten.

This may be significant. The Hashashin of the real world usually did something akin to suicide bombers today (with a higher survival rate), by getting their lower ranking members to do the actual killing while the higher ranking members stayed home. Jaqen never killed anyone onscreen apart from the three he did for Arya. It's entirely possible he went into the dungeons looking to get to the Wall and beyond by being a Night's Watch member, but got sidetracked by Arya for some reason.

There's something screwy with this for sure and Arya being an actual Faceless Man is looking less and less likely to be the point of her training.

[Terez]

Maybe Arya was his target all along. I imagine there are some good Syrio-meets-Jacquen theories out there. (I've seen Syrio=Jacquen theories, but I'm skeptical.)

[amphibian]

It makes zero sense for Arya to be the initial target because he was in the dungeons for all of the time prior. If he wanted to get her, being Syrio or a Stark guardsmen would have made so much more sense. It is more likely that he wanted to get beyond the wall and see what happened out there.

[Terez]

Are we told how long he was in the dungeons? I was thinking maybe he ended up there because he helped Syrio survive somehow. And wouldn't there be easier ways to get beyond the Wall? Some crime or another in the North, maybe.

[Traveller]

Nevyn, on 30 May 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

And, no, QT, Bran still isn't going to try to talk to Aerys.

No, but maybe the 3er did. Maybe that's why he was warning Bran off calling out to Ned; because he tried to tell Aerys about how to defeat the walkers, and is responsible for his madness.

There is a definite link there between Bran/3er, Aerys and wildfire.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 31 May 2016 - 07:37 AM

[Andorion]

worry, on 31 May 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

It got stuffed into a crevasse in the back of his mind while the rest of him was stuck with his domineering father, the primary source of his lifelong overwhelming pain and shame.

Terez, on 31 May 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

Yeah, Sam never told her the story about how his father threatened to kill him. She doesn't really understand how much Sam fears him.

Does anyone else think Dickon might be killed by a White Walker?

I think it was pretty well established in Season 5 that the one thing that can get Sam;s blood up is any threat to Gilly. He fought for her, stood down NW people for her, I really thought that when Randyll started referring to her as It would be the breaking point.

And his sword stealing scheme still makes no sense.

[worry]

Yah, but that's thinking about it like he had an issue, and then he found his way to overcome it, so it's no longer an issue. But that's just not how Sam works. Rabbit-in-headlights fear is going to be an issue with him for the rest of his life, and sometimes he'll push through it and often he won't.

He did explain later, of course, that he remained silent because he didn't want to risk Gilly and Sam Jr. getting kicked out, so if you want to look at his absorption of everything Randyll had to say as the farsighted defense of Gilly, and its own form of bravery, that plays too.

The sword thing, you're still right. It played kinda goofy, and we'll see what the fallout is.

[Terez]

Coonass, on 31 May 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

Or just volunteer to take the Black

I get the feeling this is rare enough (outside of noble Houses with too many sons) that it might look suspicious. But still, if you're going to commit some crime just to get to the Wall, best to do it somewhere closer to the Wall. Besides, I also get the feeling that whatever crime Jaqen committed is usually punishable by death, and he was very lucky to be afforded the opportunity to take the black instead. He and Biter and Rorge were treated as being extra dangerous, hence the cage. So probably murder. He'd have a better chance of being offered the Wall if he'd raped a serving girl at Karhold, or stolen from the kitchens at the Last Hearth.

[Maark Abbott]

Have to say I was disappointed with this episode. Very little happened, and what did was all entirely predictable.