[Andorion]

I have started a project of watching the Game of Thrones episodes and reading the books. My intended order is Seasons 1+2, books 1+2, seasons 3+4, book 3, Season 5, Books 4+5, though this might change later.

SPOILER WARNING: UNBLOCKED SPOILERS FOR GOT AND ASOIAF . But please don't post any Spoilers past the point I have read or watched.


Season 1, Episode 1.

Really loved the visual setting and style of the pilot.

I already like Arya the arrow firing naughty girl the most. Bran doesn't die, right? Because I like him too.
I also like Jaime lannister in spite of his murdering, incest committing habits. Is this normal?

Several questions

1. Why did the White Walkers (if that is their name) let the third guy escape?
2. How did he escape so far South? Wouldn't he have to go through the Wall?
3. How come nobody took his reports of the Walkers seriosuly? Isn't the Wall their to guard against specifically this type of danger?
4. How many kids does Ned Stark have? I saw Arya, Sansa, Rob and Bran. But Snow said 5 direwolves for 5 Stark children. Who is the 5th one?
5. Is the guy with the dagger who almost killed a direwolf pup Theon Greyjoy?
6. Are those Dragon eggs Daenerys got real? As in viable and hatchable? They looked like stone.

[worry]

1. He smelled like onions.
2. He went through the wall fine because he's Night's Watch, not Wildling. He basically came home (ie the Wall) and then escaped south.
3. This'll make sense once you're into it.
4. 5 legit, 1 Snow. The fifth is Rickon, the curly haired kid watching his brothers do archery.
5. Yup.
6. There's chocolate inside.

[Andorion]

What I am getting at is when he returned to the wall alone, didn't his commander interrogate him about the other two dead guys? Didn't he tell them about the Walkers? Why didn't they send a larger force to investigate?

And does anybody like Jaime Lannister?

I already like Tyrion a lot, Jaime gives of that cheerful homicidal maniac vibe but for some reason I like him.

[worry]

I know what you're getting at, but you said no spoilers.

[Gorefest]

Just out of curiousity, why do you do the TV series first and the books next? Why not the other way around?

[Andorion]

Gorefest, on 03 September 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

Just out of curiousity, why do you do the TV series first and the books next? Why not the other way around?

My preferred media for entertainment is books. I rarely watch tv. I watch around 10 films a year.

The TV series will abridge, cut out, distort, or ignore many elements of the books. If I were to read the books first, I am pretty sure I would love them. Then I would spend the entire time while I was watching the show picking out these instances and finding fault. I don't want to do that, becasue it has happened to me many times. I couldn't even watch Harry Potter 4 and 5 because the adaptations bugged me so much.

This way I can finish watching then read and enjoy. The show won't spoil the books for me. Spoilers in books don't really bug me that much. But if I had the show Spoiled I am not sure I would watch it all the way through.

[Gorefest]

Well, for what it's worth, in the first 2-3 seasons the TV show actually follows the books very closely, just with less detail. Some of the questions you have regarding the show are actually addressed in the books. So it may be worth just accepting things like the flight of the night's watch character through the Wall as a given for now. A lot of the time the TV series has simply cut out bits that slow down the pacing of the action. If we'd have to paste those bits in, this thread would become bigger than Moon's Spawn. Thematic questions are fairly straight-forward to answer, but these kinds of movement questions nine out of ten times can probably be put down to TV show short-cuts.

The Stark family is Eddard (Ned) Stark, his wife Catelyn, their 5 legitimite children Rob, Sansa, Bran, Arya, and Rickon, and one bastard son: Jon Snow. The 'Snow' bit indicates his illegitimate parentage and the area where the House that the bastard child is related to is situated. So in the north they'll be called Snows, but furthers south you'll come across Rivers, Sand, Storm, Stone, Flowers, Pyke, Hill, or Waters. Theon Greyjoy is a hostage, which is also quite a common occurrence. Suc 'hostages' are usually children of rivalling families who have lost a recent war and are raised within the victorious household to make sure the the losing side is less likely to try something again. Often they are treated well and sometimes, as in the case of the Starks, they are raised as if they are part of the family.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 03 September 2015 - 11:03 AM

[Andorion]

Gorefest, on 03 September 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

Well, for what it's worth, in the first 2-3 seasons the TV show actually follows the books very closely, just with less detail. Some of the questions you have regarding the show are actually addressed in the books. So it may be worth just accepting things like the flight of the night's watch character through the Wall as a given for now. A lot of the time the TV series has simply cut out bits that slow down the pacing of the action. If we'd have to paste those bits in this thread would become bigger than Moon's Spawn. Thematic questions are fairly straight-forward to answer, but these kinds of movement questions nine out of ten times can probably be put down to TV show short-cuts.

I had a fair hunch that would be the case. I am pretty sure I won't find out much about backstory, general worldbuilding and mythos until start reading. I don't fault the TV director for what he is doing. He is restricted by the structural constraints of him medium

[Andorion]

Season 1 Episodes: 2+3

The Lannisters' nasty side is becoming more apparent. Cersei is a hell of an actress in the scene with Catelyn Stark though it may not have been all acting.

The king is is useless, incompetent and a general idiot. He is not going to live for very long. Why does he keep on provoking Jaime? I get he doesn't like him, but a bit of diplomacy wouldn't hurt.

It seems the situation beyond the wall will be investigated. I just don't think the wall can be held at all. Apart from the too few men, too little money problem, they have one slow elevator. Thats it. A surprise assault could take the wall, though a good genral would feint an over-the-wall attack and target the tunnel gate.

Ned Stark, while a good man is not very bright.

I am pretty sure I have the scumbags nailed down. Varys and Peter. Though for some reason I am getting very bad vibes from the maester of WInterfell as well as Greyjoy.

Daenerys has a lesbian/bisexual maid. Excellent. I am actually enjoying her storyline a lot. Her brother Viserys on the other hand seems an adult Joffrey with anger management problems. I don't think the Dothraki will take him seriosuly at all. He has no real power or leverage and having silver hair doesn't really count for a lot.

The exiled knight with the Dothraki - a spy for Robert Baratheon, or the Lannisters?

Two creepy things - this 'shadow" area the Dothraki keep on referring to. What is it? Apparently the eggs come from there. Is it further east?

The other thing is that tidbit about wonky seasons. The climate of this world seems to be rather erratic. Magical influence?

Arya remains a very favourite character. I like her sword tutor

Forgot to add, Joffrey's rant on what he would do with the North makes absolute sense from the perspective of a strong king. A strong king does need a good standing army and he can't let a large portion of his kingdom be under the control of a hostile faction. But he has no idea about how to implement his ideas. he clearly does not understand the concept of loyalty or strategic planning.

This post has been edited by Andorion: 03 September 2015 - 02:19 PM

[Itwæs Nom]

Andorion, on 03 September 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Gorefest, on 03 September 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

Just out of curiousity, why do you do the TV series first and the books next? Why not the other way around?

My preferred media for entertainment is books. I rarely watch tv. I watch around 10 films a year.

The TV series will abridge, cut out, distort, or ignore many elements of the books. If I were to read the books first, I am pretty sure I would love them. Then I would spend the entire time while I was watching the show picking out these instances and finding fault. I don't want to do that, becasue it has happened to me many times. I couldn't even watch Harry Potter 4 and 5 because the adaptations bugged me so much.

This way I can finish watching then read and enjoy. The show won't spoil the books for me. Spoilers in books don't really bug me that much. But if I had the show Spoiled I am not sure I would watch it all the way through.

¨

Youre most prob right about not enjoying show after reading books, but still..personally I would rather enjoy books 100% and dont even watch the show than enjoy show 100% and books 50%. Well, Ive read the whole series and than watched few episodes of season 1 and I couldnt continue because it was boring and seemed wrong in portraying the stuff to me. I just liked my displaying better.

[amphibian]

I think already Andorion is picking good things to pay attention to and the right questions to ask regarding character motivations and actions.

The notion of parentage and bloodlines is very, very important to the series, so some of the character motivations are explicitly and subtly related to this.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 03 September 2015 - 03:20 PM

[Nevyn]

Andorion, on 03 September 2015 - 05:43 AM, said:

What I am getting at is when he returned to the wall alone, didn't his commander interrogate him about the other two dead guys? Didn't he tell them about the Walkers? Why didn't they send a larger force to investigate?

And does anybody like Jaime Lannister?

I already like Tyrion a lot, Jaime gives of that cheerful homicidal maniac vibe but for some reason I like him.

The tricky thing here is you asked no spoilers but all your questions involve knowledge you may or may not gain by reading more.

In most cases some of the answers would not be considered a 'spoiler', but this is an SE messageboard, where understanding what the heck is going on constitutes a spoiler

I will put the answer to your question in spoiler tags. It has NO major plot spoilers of what is about to come, but is information you would figure out eventually through watching/reading. A more complete understanding of the situation. Decide for yourself if you want the answer now or through RAFO.

Spoiler

The wall is very long and covers a lot of ground. A long time ago the nights watch had thousands of men, and several "castles" along the wall as bases for those men. In modern times they are a much smaller force and most of those castles are abandoned. Most of those castles would include routes through the wall. Some may have been blocked when the castles were abandoned, and the rest are no doubt hidden and/or locked. But a member of the watch could use them.

Thus the person involved would be able to defect without having to return to Castle Black and report first.

[Andorion]

I might look at that Spoiler tag later, like if I am still searching for answers by end of season 1

Could somebody just tell me if the whole 'zone of shadow' referred to by the Dothraki is explained in later parts?

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 03 September 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

I think already Andorion is picking good things to pay attention to and the right questions to ask regarding character motivations and actions.

The notion of parentage and bloodlines is very, very important to the series, so some of the character motivations are explicitly and subtly related to this.

Good to know I am focussing on the correct stuff. The thing about visual media, like the tv show is that the way a character is filmed, angles, facial expressions etc can give indications for later. Books are actually better at hiding stuff if the author wants to.

[Andorion]

Charlie Nom, on 03 September 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Andorion, on 03 September 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Gorefest, on 03 September 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

Just out of curiousity, why do you do the TV series first and the books next? Why not the other way around?

My preferred media for entertainment is books. I rarely watch tv. I watch around 10 films a year.

The TV series will abridge, cut out, distort, or ignore many elements of the books. If I were to read the books first, I am pretty sure I would love them. Then I would spend the entire time while I was watching the show picking out these instances and finding fault. I don't want to do that, becasue it has happened to me many times. I couldn't even watch Harry Potter 4 and 5 because the adaptations bugged me so much.

This way I can finish watching then read and enjoy. The show won't spoil the books for me. Spoilers in books don't really bug me that much. But if I had the show Spoiled I am not sure I would watch it all the way through.

¨

Youre most prob right about not enjoying show after reading books, but still..personally I would rather enjoy books 100% and dont even watch the show than enjoy show 100% and books 50%. Well, Ive read the whole series and than watched few episodes of season 1 and I couldnt continue because it was boring and seemed wrong in portraying the stuff to me. I just liked my displaying better.

This is exactly why I am reading later. I like books in general. These books are better than the show. So even if I know the story roughly I will enjoy the books.

[acesn8s]

Andorion, on 03 September 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

I might look at that Spoiler tag later, like if I am still searching for answers by end of season 1

Could somebody just tell me if the whole 'zone of shadow' referred to by the Dothraki is explained in later parts?

Remote area of the world, figuratively associated with magic, myth, mystery, etc...

[Nevyn]

Andorion, on 03 September 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

I might look at that Spoiler tag later, like if I am still searching for answers by end of season 1

Could somebody just tell me if the whole 'zone of shadow' referred to by the Dothraki is explained in later parts?

Not really. At least not really to date. It (and locations in proximity to it) may be a reference point for future characters.

But as far as any of us can tell you, it is still a fairly mysterious location whose importance to the story is completely up in the air.

[worry]

It's Japan.

[Andorion]

Episode 4

1. Lady Stark has really put her foot in it. She acted on impulse and I am sure this is going to have bad consequences.

2. So Baratheon has a bastard. Whats new? I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hundred the way he goes on.

3. Hugh of the Vale (not sure if thats correct) dying when Stark showed interest in him yet before he could talk is absolutely not a coincidence.

4. Littlefingers is playing multiple games. His aid to Stark is false, or a part of a larger game. I am sure he is in with multiple factions.

5. If Jaime killed the king I wouldn't blame him.

6. Whatever caused John Arryns death is probably related to family trees and therefore rightful or disputed claims to titles postions, or maybe... thrones?

7. John Snow has the wrong idea. If Sam can't fight he has to learn to fight. He can't survive otherwise. Not touching him won't solve anything. He has to be trained.

8. My admiration for Daenerys is increasing. Increasingly assertive, she finally stood up to her brother and has a fairly realistic grasp of his abilities.

9. Viserys' description of the dragon skulls was very interesting.

10. I think whatever plan the Lannisters have, it will happen soon. Cersei merely came to scope out Stark one last time.

Questions

1. Is the Hound allied with the Lannisters or against them? I would say with them. Same goes for the Mountain
2. Joffrey has siblings, right? I saw some kids on the kings platform.
3. That Grand Maester. I keep on thinking he is going to die. But is he playing a game too?
4. Is Theon Greyjoy a hostage? I thought he was adopted. It seems now that the Greyjoys fought against the Starks and the Lannisters

BTW if I am getting the names wrong, please correct me.

This post has been edited by Andorion: 04 September 2015 - 05:14 AM

[Nevyn]

Andorion, on 04 September 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

Episode 4


Questions

1. Is the Hound allied with the Lannisters or against them? I would say with them. Same goes for the Mountain
2. Joffrey has siblings, right? I saw some kids on the kings platform.
3. That Grand Maester. I keep on thinking he is going to die. But is he playing a game too?
4. Is Theon Greyjoy a hostage? I thought he was adopted. It seems now that the Greyjoys fought against the Starks and the Lannisters

BTW if I am getting the names wrong, please correct me.

1) The Hound is Joffrey's bodyguard. The brothers are of a lesser noble house that owes fealty to the Lannisters.
2) Yes, Myrcella and Tommen
3) no comment
4) Yes, Theon is a hostage. His father attempted a rebellion against Robert, was defeated, and gave his son to the Starks as hostage for his good behaviour. As in the Malazan books with the Tiste, a hostage is treated like family/guest, and Theon has been with the Starks since he was a child.