[QuickTidal]

Ford & Carney met today to talk, and it seems like it went well. Glad to see them reaching across political lines to work together to support Canadians.

[worry]

I'll believe it's noteworthy when Red Green is a participant in the talks.

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 12 March 2025 - 06:59 PM, said:

I'll believe it's noteworthy when Red Green is a participant in the talks.

He's really old now sadly...Steve Smith is like 80.

But he's the best and continues to be the best.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 13 March 2025 - 11:42 AM, said:

worry, on 12 March 2025 - 06:59 PM, said:

I'll believe it's noteworthy when Red Green is a participant in the talks.

He's really old now sadly...Steve Smith is like 80.

But he's the best and continues to be the best.

Tom Green's still available.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Lady Bliss, on 11 March 2025 - 06:46 PM, said:

Unfortunately US citizens over 40 without a lot of money have a hard time emigrating. I’ve looked into it. I’m open to marriage though!

yeee.... unfortunately one of my buddies been trying to emigrate to canada for a number of years. Says its very hard. Wish you all the best though!

[Tiste Simeon]

LinearPhilosopher, on 16 March 2025 - 02:29 AM, said:

Lady Bliss, on 11 March 2025 - 06:46 PM, said:

Unfortunately US citizens over 40 without a lot of money have a hard time emigrating. I’ve looked into it. I’m open to marriage though!

yeee.... unfortunately one of my buddies been trying to emigrate to canada for a number of years. Says its very hard. Wish you all the best though!

I think Bliss is angling for a proposal...

[LinearPhilosopher]

Tiste Simeon, on 16 March 2025 - 06:27 AM, said:

LinearPhilosopher, on 16 March 2025 - 02:29 AM, said:

Lady Bliss, on 11 March 2025 - 06:46 PM, said:

Unfortunately US citizens over 40 without a lot of money have a hard time emigrating. I’ve looked into it. I’m open to marriage though!

yeee.... unfortunately one of my buddies been trying to emigrate to canada for a number of years. Says its very hard. Wish you all the best though!

I think Bliss is angling for a proposal...

I guess you could say I was...

Blissfully Ignorant

[QuickTidal]

PP's pivot about the Industrial Carbon tax is pissing me off AND showing how dim his base is.

For the uninitiated. Years ago we started putting a price in Carbon to align with the goals of the G7 in Kyoto and afterwards...as such we allowed the provinces to come up with their own machinations to achieve this. In most provinces Cap & Trade was born where corporations responsible for emissions would be allowed a certain amount of emissions and anything above that CAP they were charged for. This worked until those corporations started complaining to the largely conservative Premiers of the provinces, so those conservative Premiers (Ford chief among them) removed Cap & Trade, which resulted in those provinces having to drop the consumer portion of those emissions into a carbon tax paid by you and me (now, it's a rounding error unless you drove a big ass gas guzzler or used way more carbon that you should), that was rebated 4 times per year to the consumer (usually more than you ever would have paid into it in the tax). There is an industrial portion of this that still is paid at the corporate level. Sidebar: Transport Trucks and farmers were ALWAYS immune to this tax...no matter what Right Wing nut jobs try to say.

So Pollievre made the Carbon Tax his WHOLE ass campaign and personality for like 2 years. He made it so entirely toxic (with the help of Russian bots) that dumb people would rebut that they never received a rebate ever....which would mean that either they A. didn't pay their taxes, B. Their spouse git it and they didn't know, or C. They use an ABNORMALLY insane amount of carbon in their daily lives....he made it so toxic that no matter what happened with Trudeau, it was clear that if the Liberals ever had a shot at keeping their party in govt, that whoever came in afterwards would HAVE to steal PP's thunder and "axe the tax"...which is what Carney did, right away.

So Pollievre is struggling now without the two main bits of his personality, Trudeau (who is now gone) and the Carbon Tax (also now gone)....so he's only mildly pivoted and there are a few splinter bits....He's claiming that the industrial Carbon Tax is still a thing and that it is THIS he will axe and that the Liberals have not axed. The part he's not saying is that the Industrial Carbon tax MUST exist for us to trade with the G7 nations...they will literally not trade with us if it's gone...so even if he "axed" it upon gaining power....he would have to put SOMETHING in its place that matches it or we would be FUCKED economically on trade lines. He knows this. He very much knows this. But he's lost the thing that made him popular with some Canadians and he's desperately trying to salvage that talking point.

His followers (or the Russian bots) have also suggested that:

1. Carney can't REALLY remove the carbon tax because it's a law and parliament isn't sitting to repeal it - this is complete BS as it's perfectly valid as an Order in Council that it is. They are depending on the public to be stupid enough to believe this talking point is accurate. It's not.
2. They say he's reduced it this way to zero so that he can spring it back full price on Canadians once an election happens if the Liberals are re-elected. Which is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, and you'd have to be deeply gullible to believe anyone would do this.
3. He's unelected....which we should not even dignify with a response since it's a bud;ding block of our civics that we elect MPs in our ridings, and the amount of seats they get dictates which party gains power, and if the ruling party has a leader that steps down they internally will pick a new one (which some of us voted on within the Liberal party), because that party is STILL IN POWER. Having to teach Canadian civics to people in 2025 is wild.

Anyways. It's irritating to watch a man who has been in our political system for 20 years (literally lived off nothing but my tax dime since he got out of school at 25 with nothing to show for it bill-wise) and pretends to not understand how any of it works JUST because he expects his base are dumb enough to buy his nonsense. It's not different to his refusal to get security clearance...it's not about him hiding anything...it's about the fact that if he had clearance he can't randomly lie to the public and tetra way with it. Example: when that car ran into the US/CAN border booth from the States side he hopped onto twitter and claimed it was a terrorist attack ...if he'd had his security clearance like every other politician in our govt he'd have KNOWN it wasn't and would not have been legally allowed to lie to the public...he WANTS to be in the "dark" so that he can lie with impunity. It's fucking disgusting, and anyone who wants someone like that as our leader is off their rocker.

[Mentalist]

YT stopped feeding me PP ads. I guess they are saving up the attack ad money for when the election is actually called(apparently could be as soon as the weekend)

[QuickTidal]

Holyshit....338 is now polling a Liberal Majority...is that the biggest bag fumble by the CPC's in their history?

https://338canada.com/federal.htm

I'm not saying I expect a Lib majority....but even a Liberal minority would probably destroy the CPC's as they exist....I would expect a loss of any kind would result in a schism down the lines that created it between the Social populist Reformers in the West and the Fiscal Old school PC's in the East, with the PPC eating anything that didn't fall into those two camps. After rushing through leaders in the last decade and taking the wrong message and moving even further right every loss with their leader choice....ending up at populist Trump lite PP, I don't think the part as it stands recovers from that.

Trudeau was Leftist, but Carney is more Centre Right and I think he's eating Pierre's non-Reform portion of the party's lunch. Carney is what the PCs were in 2004 which shows you how far they've slid.

And the problem really lay in the fact that the Fiscal Cons want to lean centre to garner votes of the average Canadian...but the Social (Reform) Populist portion of the party wants a leader who represents their specific social views...and those views simply do not line up with the majority of average Canadians. The Liberals have essentially given the Fiscal Old School PC's a guy they WOULD have voted for in 2004 as a replacement for Trudeau...and the polls seem to reflect that it's working.

Easter at my sisters place is going to be....a chore. They were already ranting about Carney way back before JT even thought about resigning because they are so deep in the PPC/PP/Trump populist swamp....I would put good money down on hearing them (for the tenth time in the last 5 years) threatening to leave Canada if Carney and the Liberals win...100% they will say that. They'll never leave mind you....they'll just threaten it. We try to avoid politics in our freshly healed relationship....but my brother in law cannot keep his yap all the way shut, so some of that talk always slips out. EVERYTHING in their lives revolves around politics. I miss the pre-covid days when that was not the case.

[Tiste Simeon]

Any chance of livestreaming Easter at your sister's place QT? I'll get popcorn!

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 18 March 2025 - 07:30 PM, said:

Any chance of livestreaming Easter at your sister's place QT? I'll get popcorn!

I’ll record anything that goes off the rails and upload it. lol

[Mentalist]

QuickTidal, on 18 March 2025 - 06:06 PM, said:

Holyshit....338 is now polling a Liberal Majority...is that the biggest bag fumble by the CPC's in their history?

https://338canada.com/federal.htm

I'm not saying I expect a Lib majority....but even a Liberal minority would probably destroy the CPC's as they exist....I would expect a loss of any kind would result in a schism down the lines that created it between the Social populist Reformers in the West and the Fiscal Old school PC's in the East, with the PPC eating anything that didn't fall into those two camps. After rushing through leaders in the last decade and taking the wrong message and moving even further right every loss with their leader choice....ending up at populist Trump lite PP, I don't think the part as it stands recovers from that.

Trudeau was Leftist, but Carney is more Centre Right and I think he's eating Pierre's non-Reform portion of the party's lunch. Carney is what the PCs were in 2004 which shows you how far they've slid.

And the problem really lay in the fact that the Fiscal Cons want to lean centre to garner votes of the average Canadian...but the Social (Reform) Populist portion of the party wants a leader who represents their specific social views...and those views simply do not line up with the majority of average Canadians. The Liberals have essentially given the Fiscal Old School PC's a guy they WOULD have voted for in 2004 as a replacement for Trudeau...and the polls seem to reflect that it's working.

Easter at my sisters place is going to be....a chore. They were already ranting about Carney way back before JT even thought about resigning because they are so deep in the PPC/PP/Trump populist swamp....I would put good money down on hearing them (for the tenth time in the last 5 years) threatening to leave Canada if Carney and the Liberals win...100% they will say that. They'll never leave mind you....they'll just threaten it. We try to avoid politics in our freshly healed relationship....but my brother in law cannot keep his yap all the way shut, so some of that talk always slips out. EVERYTHING in their lives revolves around politics. I miss the pre-covid days when that was not the case.

I'll believe in a red wave when I see it. I have low hopes for 905, and those ridings will be enough to give pp his minority.

I'm open to being pleasantly surprised, but 2025 feels like a year when its best to keep your expectations as modest as possible.

[LinearPhilosopher]

QuickTidal, on 18 March 2025 - 04:27 PM, said:

PP's pivot about the Industrial Carbon tax is pissing me off AND showing how dim his base is.

For the uninitiated. Years ago we started putting a price in Carbon to align with the goals of the G7 in Kyoto and afterwards...as such we allowed the provinces to come up with their own machinations to achieve this. In most provinces Cap & Trade was born where corporations responsible for emissions would be allowed a certain amount of emissions and anything above that CAP they were charged for. This worked until those corporations started complaining to the largely conservative Premiers of the provinces, so those conservative Premiers (Ford chief among them) removed Cap & Trade, which resulted in those provinces having to drop the consumer portion of those emissions into a carbon tax paid by you and me (now, it's a rounding error unless you drove a big ass gas guzzler or used way more carbon that you should), that was rebated 4 times per year to the consumer (usually more than you ever would have paid into it in the tax). There is an industrial portion of this that still is paid at the corporate level. Sidebar: Transport Trucks and farmers were ALWAYS immune to this tax...no matter what Right Wing nut jobs try to say.

So Pollievre made the Carbon Tax his WHOLE ass campaign and personality for like 2 years. He made it so entirely toxic (with the help of Russian bots) that dumb people would rebut that they never received a rebate ever....which would mean that either they A. didn't pay their taxes, B. Their spouse git it and they didn't know, or C. They use an ABNORMALLY insane amount of carbon in their daily lives....he made it so toxic that no matter what happened with Trudeau, it was clear that if the Liberals ever had a shot at keeping their party in govt, that whoever came in afterwards would HAVE to steal PP's thunder and "axe the tax"...which is what Carney did, right away.

So Pollievre is struggling now without the two main bits of his personality, Trudeau (who is now gone) and the Carbon Tax (also now gone)....so he's only mildly pivoted and there are a few splinter bits....He's claiming that the industrial Carbon Tax is still a thing and that it is THIS he will axe and that the Liberals have not axed. The part he's not saying is that the Industrial Carbon tax MUST exist for us to trade with the G7 nations...they will literally not trade with us if it's gone...so even if he "axed" it upon gaining power....he would have to put SOMETHING in its place that matches it or we would be FUCKED economically on trade lines. He knows this. He very much knows this. But he's lost the thing that made him popular with some Canadians and he's desperately trying to salvage that talking point.

His followers (or the Russian bots) have also suggested that:

1. Carney can't REALLY remove the carbon tax because it's a law and parliament isn't sitting to repeal it - this is complete BS as it's perfectly valid as an Order in Council that it is. They are depending on the public to be stupid enough to believe this talking point is accurate. It's not.
2. They say he's reduced it this way to zero so that he can spring it back full price on Canadians once an election happens if the Liberals are re-elected. Which is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, and you'd have to be deeply gullible to believe anyone would do this.
3. He's unelected....which we should not even dignify with a response since it's a bud;ding block of our civics that we elect MPs in our ridings, and the amount of seats they get dictates which party gains power, and if the ruling party has a leader that steps down they internally will pick a new one (which some of us voted on within the Liberal party), because that party is STILL IN POWER. Having to teach Canadian civics to people in 2025 is wild.

Anyways. It's irritating to watch a man who has been in our political system for 20 years (literally lived off nothing but my tax dime since he got out of school at 25 with nothing to show for it bill-wise) and pretends to not understand how any of it works JUST because he expects his base are dumb enough to buy his nonsense. It's not different to his refusal to get security clearance...it's not about him hiding anything...it's about the fact that if he had clearance he can't randomly lie to the public and tetra way with it. Example: when that car ran into the US/CAN border booth from the States side he hopped onto twitter and claimed it was a terrorist attack ...if he'd had his security clearance like every other politician in our govt he'd have KNOWN it wasn't and would not have been legally allowed to lie to the public...he WANTS to be in the "dark" so that he can lie with impunity. It's fucking disgusting, and anyone who wants someone like that as our leader is off their rocker.

On the topic of Carbon tax, I think Andrew Coyne hit the nail on the head perfectly last week
https://youtu.be/Xr4...n9O2iM0dI&t=553

With the liberals scrapping the consumer carbon tax, the only alternative is a purely business tax and the costs of such will be passed onto the consumer. It just means consumer will get no rebate at all. At least with the consumer carbon tax you knew how much at the pump you paid on it. How much of that cost was flowed through to you was harder to trace.

There was a recent discussion about why sales tax are not included in the price and the prevailing sentiment in the 90s was that if the HST GST is separated out, at least its not an invisible tax. Personally if carbon pricing was more EXPLICIT on every item similar to GST/HST there may not have been as much rhetoric about it.

That being said, with respect to parliamentary procedure they are partially right. The tax still exists on the books. The rate is just reduced to 0. In order to increase an existing tax or create a new tax, a new ways and means motion must be presented and voted on by the house before the bill can be introduced to parliament for voting. Then its your usual 3 rounds of approval and royal assent. If the liberals had a majority, they could do it. Not sure why as it would be political suicide but they hypothetically could.

Mentalist, on 19 March 2025 - 12:52 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 18 March 2025 - 06:06 PM, said:

Holyshit....338 is now polling a Liberal Majority...is that the biggest bag fumble by the CPC's in their history?

https://338canada.com/federal.htm

I'm not saying I expect a Lib majority....but even a Liberal minority would probably destroy the CPC's as they exist....I would expect a loss of any kind would result in a schism down the lines that created it between the Social populist Reformers in the West and the Fiscal Old school PC's in the East, with the PPC eating anything that didn't fall into those two camps. After rushing through leaders in the last decade and taking the wrong message and moving even further right every loss with their leader choice....ending up at populist Trump lite PP, I don't think the part as it stands recovers from that.

Trudeau was Leftist, but Carney is more Centre Right and I think he's eating Pierre's non-Reform portion of the party's lunch. Carney is what the PCs were in 2004 which shows you how far they've slid.

And the problem really lay in the fact that the Fiscal Cons want to lean centre to garner votes of the average Canadian...but the Social (Reform) Populist portion of the party wants a leader who represents their specific social views...and those views simply do not line up with the majority of average Canadians. The Liberals have essentially given the Fiscal Old School PC's a guy they WOULD have voted for in 2004 as a replacement for Trudeau...and the polls seem to reflect that it's working.

Easter at my sisters place is going to be....a chore. They were already ranting about Carney way back before JT even thought about resigning because they are so deep in the PPC/PP/Trump populist swamp....I would put good money down on hearing them (for the tenth time in the last 5 years) threatening to leave Canada if Carney and the Liberals win...100% they will say that. They'll never leave mind you....they'll just threaten it. We try to avoid politics in our freshly healed relationship....but my brother in law cannot keep his yap all the way shut, so some of that talk always slips out. EVERYTHING in their lives revolves around politics. I miss the pre-covid days when that was not the case.

I'll believe in a red wave when I see it. I have low hopes for 905, and those ridings will be enough to give pp his minority.

I'm open to being pleasantly surprised, but 2025 feels like a year when its best to keep your expectations as modest as possible.

incidentally i came across this
https://youtu.be/Wv3...kgLEgf6fJewNlHz

Does a decent breakdown of that poll. The Key take aways
Ekos Polls are very fast in polling with small samples so should be taken with a grain a salt.
The same poll asked albertans if they were going to vote PQ.

Clearly there were some flaws in the data.

Most polls have Liberals within 5% of tories which... would usually mean a tory minotry minimum. But if the gaps narrows 1-3% more, all of a sudden you are now in a major race or maybe even liberal minority territory.

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 19 March 2025 - 01:37 AM

[Mentalist]

See, my problem with the popular vote stats is that we all know how the urban/rural votes split. Let's be real, when is the last time Northern and Eastern Ontario counties voted anything but blue? Big cities and uni towns are a world apart from the countryside, and you can't effectively generalize them into a single poll, until we finally get PR voting on the federal level in this country, which is likely never.

And then you've got the suburbs, that are predominantly populated with newer immigrants, and they have a big hangup against the Libs due to coming from more traditional societies and buying into the "anti-woke" rhetoric; and I don't have much faith in them not voting blue. It's always a cointoss whether something more immediate comes up that can sway them.

I can see a Lib minority, especially if pp fails to come up with any positivist message and sticks with the dumb attack ads; but people projecting a Lib majority are going way too far, I think.

[QuickTidal]

I know I’ve said this before but Ontario has NEVER p, in its history had/chosen a conservative federal govt while they have a provincial conservative govt. The only time it’s even occurred were two instances of brief overlap where it was rectified in months at an election. We just elected Fords PCs for another 4 years. Ontario will vote for the Liberals. And a LOT of the PC voters in Ontario are fiscal, which is what Carney is. He looks like the cons they’ve usually elected at the provincial level and what the PCs looked like federally before the Reform amalgamation and Harper’s SoCons.

As I said, I don’t think a liberal majority is likely accurate come election time, but a minority seems very likely. And even that will end the PP era of the FedCons, and would I Hope make them to clean house of the SoCons. Losing four consecutive elections should be a massive wake up call that social conservatism is not going to get elected in Canada,

[Abyss]

Trump.... slams PP, says Liberals would be easier to deal with.
PP... says Trump just endorsed Carney.
Tory voters.... *headsplode*.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 19 March 2025 - 03:24 PM, said:

Trump.... slams PP, says Liberals would be easier to deal with.
PP... says Trump just endorsed Carney.
Tory voters.... *headsplode*.

I think it’s funny that trumps plan here was “90’s sitcom era reverse psychology”….hilarious really

[Tiste Simeon]

QuickTidal, on 19 March 2025 - 04:23 PM, said:

Abyss, on 19 March 2025 - 03:24 PM, said:

Trump.... slams PP, says Liberals would be easier to deal with.
PP... says Trump just endorsed Carney.
Tory voters.... *headsplode*.

I think it’s funny that trumps plan here was “90’s sitcom era reverse psychology”….hilarious really

It could be Trump being "hurr durr libruls are weak not like alpha men I can force them to my will like they're a 13 year old girl" or something similar.

[Abyss]

Tiste Simeon, on 19 March 2025 - 04:43 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 March 2025 - 04:23 PM, said:

Abyss, on 19 March 2025 - 03:24 PM, said:

Trump.... slams PP, says Liberals would be easier to deal with.
PP... says Trump just endorsed Carney.
Tory voters.... *headsplode*.

I think it's funny that trumps plan here was "90's sitcom era reverse psychology"….hilarious really

It could be Trump being "hurr durr libruls are weak not like alpha men I can force them to my will like they're a 13 year old girl" or something similar.

Is he negging us? Is 'negging' still a thing? Is someone supposed to want to make him happy now?