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ALSO: MODGOD NOTICE OF THANK YOU BOTH FOR REINING IN THE PERSONAL SHOTS
NOW PLEASE CONTINUE TO DO SO SO WE DON'T HAVE TO START DELETING THINGS.

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LinearPhilosopher, on 03 May 2025 - 05:46 PM, said:

I said the western provinces (not sure if you know this but there's more to the west then just alberta).

Okay, well then we are including what? Sask? Cause BC flips between parties often and is not a captured electorate...and Man went Liberal too...so we're adding another 1.2million from Sask to the numbers I mentioned? If we are going to be honest, the trouble makers are only AB and Sask when it comes to this stuff. YMMV but that's my experience.

LinearPhilosopher, on 03 May 2025 - 05:46 PM, said:

I also just think in general you have a colossal misread of my position. The impetus for this entire conversation is that the west often feel like their issues don't matter as much. That isn't a controversial statement.

I mean, they should join the club then? As I noted, I am on a third Conservative majority in Ontario that I didn't vote for, nor do I really think is repping my values. But I accept it because that's how our system works. These are provinces that were able to manage shoving their socially backwards nonsense into the PC party that existed at the time, and then their guy ruled for a decade in my 20's..Harpers CPC did a whole bunch of stuff I didn't like over a long period of time. Once again, I accepted this even if it didn't rep my values or what I thought Canada should be doing (never mind he did some irreversible stuff like allowing Corporations to be landlords which kicked off the entire housing crisis that has come to a head now)...but acceptance of the ruling party and the integrity of elections and what "the people" want is key to our society.

LinearPhilosopher, on 03 May 2025 - 05:46 PM, said:

Even going through and talking to people in northern ontario they feel their issues don't get any airtime at all.

Which issues are northern Ontario people annoyed about not being repped by the Federal govt? Because truly most of their issues are likely provincial (as most things that affect our daily lives are) in which...as we noted, they have a third Conservative provincial govt. Which things exactly are they complaining to you about?

LinearPhilosopher, on 03 May 2025 - 05:46 PM, said:

As someone who deals with numbers for a living I totally get that you need to min/max your efforts, but if as a result of those approaches, the only people whose grievances get air time are torontonians and montrealers, then maybe there needs to be a shift to try and address some of those issues, not just pretend they don't exist and write off the opinion of those who feel like that as complete loons.

Again, what issues?

LinearPhilosopher, on 03 May 2025 - 05:46 PM, said:

And lets be honest, are you even remotely surprised at what happened with PP? The guy is a career politician. Thats what he does. You don't seriously think he'd retire to become a productive member society now do you? If anything I almost feel bad for the back bencher that stepped down.

I think I am surprised that he doesn't have just a modicum of tact or shame about doing what he's doing. I DEFINTIELY feel bad for the backbencher who stepped down. From what I've heard he earned that riding by living there, being a farmer there, and basically being exactly like those he's representing...PP is about as far from that community's lives as you can get.

Abyss, on 05 May 2025 - 04:23 AM, said:

I actually do feel for the backbencher, guy has held the seat and by all reports been a decent MP for a few years, but the Cons routinely clear 80% of the vote there, so it's zero risk for PP and whatever he was promised, likely little reward for the backbencher. I can't say whether he volunteered or was voluntold, but i know his constituents are getting screwed because PP is going to pay them - in the middle of nowhere Alberta and a perfectly secure vote - even less attention than he did his Ontario riding.

I don't know what the Liberal plan for the riding byelection is, but while it's most likely sacrificial candidate and nominal effort, a grassroots grand slam would be a hell of a thing to behold.

It doesn't seem like any other party (barring MAYBE a PPC candidate) would win there....which is sad. It should eat PP alive that he's done this to a dude in his party who was actually going to be engaged for that community..while as you said, he will not live there (he'l get some liminal residence and rent it out) and will give zero attention to it.


All so he can get back into the HoC and become an obstructionist Asshole again...I truly feel like he doesn't understand Carney though....Carney is not JT and will not govern like JT, and I feel VERY strongly he won't buckle to the attack dog tactics of PP, he's very good at avoiding games and I would place a lot of money down on him just outsmarting PP at any given turn. Something JT could not seem to do.

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QuickTidal, on 05 May 2025 - 11:48 AM, said:

...
It doesn't seem like any other party (barring MAYBE a PPC candidate) would win there....which is sad. It should eat PP alive that he's done this to a dude in his party who was actually going to be engaged for that community..while as you said, he will not live there (he'l get some liminal residence and rent it out) and will give zero attention to it...

It IS sad because it would send such a telling message. Not hard to plot out a viable Lib or even NDP strategy... 'he ignored his Ontario riding and they tossed him, now his party is dropping this career Ottawa guy on you and shoving your local guy out of the way for it, is this someone you think will rep your interests against the US, or anywhere, ever, at all?' ...but they'll still vote Con because 'Liberals-bad'. If Albertans were half as ornery as they like to say they are, they would be pretty angry about this. Even putting a significant dent in the traditional 80% would be interesting, i just can't see the Liberals putting in the effort and resources that would require.

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Abyss, on 05 May 2025 - 02:05 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 May 2025 - 11:48 AM, said:

...
It doesn't seem like any other party (barring MAYBE a PPC candidate) would win there....which is sad. It should eat PP alive that he's done this to a dude in his party who was actually going to be engaged for that community..while as you said, he will not live there (he'l get some liminal residence and rent it out) and will give zero attention to it...

It IS sad because it would send such a telling message. Not hard to plot out a viable Lib or even NDP strategy... 'he ignored his Ontario riding and they tossed him, now his party is dropping this career Ottawa guy on you and shoving your local guy out of the way for it, is this someone you think will rep your interests against the US, or anywhere, ever, at all?' ...but they'll still vote Con because 'Liberals-bad'. If Albertans were half as ornery as they like to say they are, they would be pretty angry about this. Even putting a significant dent in the traditional 80% would be interesting, i just can't see the Liberals putting in the effort and resources that would require.

Yep. Pretty much. Like I get they want to vote Con....and they did....but they voted for sa local Con who knew their world and plight...now they will get an absentee landlord from Elite Ottawa who has spent the last bunch of years in a mansion with a staff of servants. At least in Carleton he could pretend he lived nearby and knew their plights (he obviously didn't)...but now it's just mask off "I need this seat to pull shit in the HoC, so I ousted your guy"

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It's not hard for them to sell/spin... PP did lead the party to historic gains, and he can easily frame his personal loss as Ontario something something they don't understand me but YOU do something something. The Libs did drop both Trudeau and Carney in where/when needed so raising too much fuss would look disingenuous.

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Abyss, on 05 May 2025 - 04:41 PM, said:

It's not hard for them to sell/spin... PP did lead the party to historic gains, and he can easily frame his personal loss as Ontario something something they don't understand me but YOU do something something. The Libs did drop both Trudeau and Carney in where/when needed so raising too much fuss would look disingenuous.

I would argue the difference is when. Carney was dropped into a seat that was being vacated by someone being investigated for election interference before the election. As such the entire country AND that riding had an electoral chance say no.


This is after the election he was rejected in, unseating a guy who was elected.


I can't see those two situations as the same.

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QuickTidal, on 05 May 2025 - 04:56 PM, said:

Abyss, on 05 May 2025 - 04:41 PM, said:

It's not hard for them to sell/spin... PP did lead the party to historic gains, and he can easily frame his personal loss as Ontario something something they don't understand me but YOU do something something. The Libs did drop both Trudeau and Carney in where/when needed so raising too much fuss would look disingenuous.

I would argue the difference is when. Carney was dropped into a seat that was being vacated by someone being investigated for election interference before the election. As such the entire country AND that riding had an electoral chance say no.


This is after the election he was rejected in, unseating a guy who was elected.


I can't see those two situations as the same.

they're emphatically not the same, but the Libs had a free seat to work with and the Cons didn't so sacrifices decisions had to be made and the poor sucker brave selfless MP stepped up before they forced him into it.

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Abyss, on 05 May 2025 - 06:03 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 May 2025 - 04:56 PM, said:

Abyss, on 05 May 2025 - 04:41 PM, said:

It's not hard for them to sell/spin... PP did lead the party to historic gains, and he can easily frame his personal loss as Ontario something something they don't understand me but YOU do something something. The Libs did drop both Trudeau and Carney in where/when needed so raising too much fuss would look disingenuous.

I would argue the difference is when. Carney was dropped into a seat that was being vacated by someone being investigated for election interference before the election. As such the entire country AND that riding had an electoral chance say no.


This is after the election he was rejected in, unseating a guy who was elected.


I can't see those two situations as the same.

they're emphatically not the same, but the Libs had a free seat to work with and the Cons didn't so sacrifices decisions had to be made and the poor sucker brave selfless MP stepped up before they forced him into it.

Fair point...but then why not unseat one of the problematic guys seats? Why go after this one seat in Rural Alberta where they seemingly voted in this guy who seems to have done right by the the people so far and no a foot out of line? That would go over better...one of the chuds I mentioned before the election as being super problematic...and I think the answer is fear. In those ridings PP would actually have to campaign...apparently in Crowfoot they would elect a mop if it had a Conservative sign, so he can be parachuted in without fuss....and I think that's my issue. This coward KNOWS he needs a safe seat, and any amount of risk is going to be seen as a threat...