[Tsundoku]

You are not even reading what I wrote. I said I understand rioting AGAINST YOUR OPPRESSORS. Not your neighbours.

I agree with the points raised. It's fucked, well and truly. The system shafts them.

I call them dipshits because like I have said umpteen times before - but apparently I'm fucking well speaking Parseltongue - they are hurting noone but the people in the same shit with them, and their own cause.

And to address your edit in response to my edit (EDITCEPTION: BWAAAAAMMMMMMMMMM *insert relevant emoji here*) - I do blame the injustice for sparking shit off, hell yeah. But when you shit on your own people ...

EDIT: Anyhoo, it's late and I'm supposed to be playing Earthdawn over roll20 and Discord, so I will redirect my flagging energy that way.
Peace. Apologies for being testy. I am old, cranky and given to yelling at clouds and being territorial about my lawn.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 29 May 2020 - 03:30 PM

[Siergiej]

When violence erupts and riots start, no one draws a map of objects and facilities that are okay to destroy and those that aren't. No one joins a protest against police brutality thinking MAN I'D LOVE TO SET A BODEGA ON FIRE. When violence escalates, it's very hard to put a cap on it. But violence escalated because these people don't see any other avenue of making their issues heard - and they exhausted other options over literal decades. It doesn't make them dipshits because their violence didn't target a list of property carefully curated by Tsundoku on Malazan forum as fair game for a violent protest.

This post has been edited by Siergiej: 29 May 2020 - 03:36 PM

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 29 May 2020 - 03:24 PM, said:

You are not even reading what I wrote. I said I understand rioting AGAINST YOUR OPPRESSORS. Not your neighbours.

I agree with the points raised. It's fucked, well and truly. The system shafts them.

I call them dipshits because like I have said umpteen times before - but apparently I'm fucking well speaking Parseltongue - they are hurting noone but the people in the same shit with them, and their own cause.

And to address your edit in response to my edit (EDITCEPTION: BWAAAAAMMMMMMMMMM *insert relevant emoji here*) - I do blame the injustice for sparking shit off, hell yeah. But when you shit on your own people ...

EDIT: Anyhoo, it's late and I'm supposed to be playing Earthdawn over roll20 and Discord, so I will redirect my flagging energy that way.
Peace. Apologies for being testy. I am old, cranky and given to yelling at clouds and being territorial about my lawn.

I think (I could be wrong) that what he's saying is that Riots don't intend to spread, gain momentum and start burning down stores and looting, it simply comes from the riot itself?

Like Paris didn't burn in 1789 because the protests intended to do more than Storm the Bastille, burn the warehouses of the merchants that seemed to cause the poor to stay and be poorer, the aristocracy and food scarcity (the direct cause of their ire)...but Paris eventually burned nonetheless as things gained momentum.

To have stopped Paris burning en masse, you'd need to get to the root cause that started the initial protests and initial riots...the aftermath is simply the fact of too many people and too much anger to contain.

If that makes sense?

[Tsundoku]

@QT

I think I see what you are trying to say he is trying to say. (If that makes sense?)
I believe you seem to think torching someone's property is an accident once things are past a certain point. I believe it is not. It is a decision. Yes, one that can be arrived at incrementally as your conscience dies a death by a thousand cuts, but still a decision.
So is looting an electronics store of specific items as opposed to food items elsewhere during mass unemployment.

The calm head required to make a molotov cocktail would not use it against their neighbour, they would use it against the police (3rd precinct specifically).

Maybe some of these rioters need to sit back and think about who it is they're really mad at if they're fucking over their neighbours.

In riots like Paris in 1789, the people did those things - then elements within them decided this was a great opportunity and led the baying mob elsewhere, to richer pickings and of course some of those temporary leaders just "want to watch the world burn". Then later we get the slightly different mob psychology of the reign of Terror but I digress ...

EDIT: 0204 in the AM. Tired, going to bed. Nighty night.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 29 May 2020 - 04:05 PM

[Macros]

To thrown in more mustard in the gravy.

I *think* Sombra is saying the people looting TVs are just straight up opportunists stealing a fucking TV, and using the riots as a cover to do it.

I *think* others are conflating this with Sombra saying, well the whole riot lost all credibility because of this (and it does read like that old man, if they is what you are saying). Because the media (being the white trash driven monster it is) will immediately hon in on this element, and use it as a smoke screen to cover what caused the riot.

So in one sense, yes, burning the Honda Civic and stealing that TV will undermine the riots message. But (IMO) nowhere near the extent Sombra thinks.

Because......


Haters gonna hate and potatoes gonna potate. The people who don't give a shit about minorities being abused won't have their opinions changed by a riot being subverted. They just see a riot and in their racist little heads it's a justification for black communities being policed harder and down trodden.
They will ignore the fucking hypocrisy of the AR15s in the state building and the fact that white Peoe riot over a fucking hockey game and it's laughed off.

So it's a two sided coin, it gives those hateful fucks an easy out to dismiss the riot in the news when the media focuses on on the Honda and TV over the root causes.
On the other side, America's fucked, it's a fucking disgrace of a first world country. And this is coming from a country that laid it's government for 3 years while they refused to sit down together and do any work because they don't like each and then re-elected the same wankers again this year

[Terez]

idk why we are talking about people looting, anyway. The criminal justice system is pretty efficient when it comes to doling out punishment for stuff like that. The people doing it generally don't have any reason to think they're going to get away with it. So why are we allowing this to distract us from the conversation about the areas where the criminal justice system does not work, and the class of people who have plenty of reason to think they can get away with murder?

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 29 May 2020 - 04:13 PM, said:

To thrown in more mustard in the gravy.

I *think* Sombra is saying the people looting TVs are just straight up opportunists stealing a fucking TV, and using the riots as a cover to do it.

I *think* others are conflating this with Sombra saying, well the whole riot lost all credibility because of this (and it does read like that old man, if they is what you are saying). Because the media (being the white trash driven monster it is) will immediately hon in on this element, and use it as a smoke screen to cover what caused the riot.

So in one sense, yes, burning the Honda Civic and stealing that TV will undermine the riots message. But (IMO) nowhere near the extent Sombra thinks.

Well put. I think that's accurate for the guts of both POVs.

[Tiste Simeon]

I'm just gonna put my Nico hat on for a second here...

It would not surprise me in the slightest if there are people involved in the riot doing so specifically because it will derail the conversation and take the focus away from the racial inequality and the murder of an innocent man.

Heck I bet there's some undercover cops in the middle of the riot.

[Cause]

I am aware of the incident and the riots.

However I am curious. Outside of the context of the previous incidents involving police and black men in the US is there a reason this is considered racially motivated as opposed to just an incident of extreme police brutality. Although yes I understand that the cops don’t give black people the benefit of the doubt when dealing with them.

This cop apparently had18 complaints, which clearly speaks to systematic failure to deal with him. Do we know if all or most of the complains involved black people?

[Siergiej]

I don't think the details of those complaints were released yet. But another cop involved in murdering George Floyd had a previous lawsuit for beating up a black man (deets here: https://edition.cnn....loyd/index.html).

That said, I don't think it's even possible to look at this incident outside the context of history of police brutality.

[Terez]

The officer has been arrested and charged with murder:

https://apnews.com/e27cfce9464809aa8c91afd74c930bb5

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 29 May 2020 - 06:14 PM, said:

The officer has been arrested and charged with murder:

https://apnews.com/e27cfce9464809aa8c91afd74c930bb5

Well that's a good start. Now to see if it makes its way through the courts without shenanigans.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 29 May 2020 - 06:34 PM

[LinearPhilosopher]

https://ourfakehisto...ive-in-toronto/

can people please stop comparing this to the storming of the bastille? The storming of the bastilles was done by a defecting brigade of french soldier who stormed the place to get powder for their weapons. A representative was sent inside to negotiate and the by then growing crowd became restless stormed it anyways.

these riots are not comparable and it distracts from the actual problems going on here

QuickTidal, on 29 May 2020 - 06:29 PM, said:

Terez, on 29 May 2020 - 06:14 PM, said:

The officer has been arrested and charged with murder:

https://apnews.com/e27cfce9464809aa8c91afd74c930bb5

Well that's a good start. Now to see if it makes its way through he courts without shenanigans.

its a start but theres at least 3 more officers who need to be arrested for accessory to murder

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 29 May 2020 - 06:33 PM

[Terez]

He did say that other arrests/charges were likely. But it's a little harder to build accessory cases than it is to build a case for the guy on video with his knee on the neck of a handcuffed person for 9 minutes.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Terez, on 29 May 2020 - 06:36 PM, said:

He did say that other arrests/charges were likely. But it's a little harder to build accessory cases than it is to build a case for the guy on video with his knee on the neck of a handcuffed person for 9 minutes.

fair. Due process needs to be respected. But it actually needs to be followed and carried out properly

[QuickTidal]

LinearPhilosopher, on 29 May 2020 - 06:32 PM, said:

can people please stop comparing this to the storming of the bastille? The storming of the bastilles was done by a defecting brigade of french soldier who stormed the place to get powder for their weapons. A representative was sent inside to negotiate and the by then growing crowd became restless stormed it anyways.

these riots are not comparable and it distracts from the actual problems going on here

Don't be pedantic. The comment was about the idea of riots spreading from initial plans/activities to more chaos, and not JUST about the Bastille as it's not the only thing I mentioned, but the whole of the riots that occurred.

It distracts nothing, you just wanted to wear the "Actually" pants. Come on man.

[LinearPhilosopher]

QuickTidal, on 29 May 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

LinearPhilosopher, on 29 May 2020 - 06:32 PM, said:

can people please stop comparing this to the storming of the bastille? The storming of the bastilles was done by a defecting brigade of french soldier who stormed the place to get powder for their weapons. A representative was sent inside to negotiate and the by then growing crowd became restless stormed it anyways.

these riots are not comparable and it distracts from the actual problems going on here

Don't be pedantic. The comment was about the idea of riots spreading from initial plans/activities to more chaos, and not JUST about the Bastille as it's not the only thing I mentioned, but the whole of the riots that occurred.

It distracts nothing, you just wanted to wear the "Actually" pants. Come on man.

its a question of accuracy as opposed to making sweeping generalizations

[QuickTidal]

LinearPhilosopher, on 29 May 2020 - 06:50 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 29 May 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

LinearPhilosopher, on 29 May 2020 - 06:32 PM, said:

can people please stop comparing this to the storming of the bastille? The storming of the bastilles was done by a defecting brigade of french soldier who stormed the place to get powder for their weapons. A representative was sent inside to negotiate and the by then growing crowd became restless stormed it anyways.

these riots are not comparable and it distracts from the actual problems going on here

Don't be pedantic. The comment was about the idea of riots spreading from initial plans/activities to more chaos, and not JUST about the Bastille as it's not the only thing I mentioned, but the whole of the riots that occurred.

It distracts nothing, you just wanted to wear the "Actually" pants. Come on man.

its a question of accuracy as opposed to making sweeping generalizations

It wasn't a sweeping generalization. My comment mentioned all the stuff that lead to riots in Paris in 1789 (the main stuff anyways)...and compared to show how riots spread out of control of their intent, which was the nut Serjei and Sombra were trying to crack. I didn't generalize about shit.

If you feel like you needed your two cents correcting about the reasons for the Bastille storming (reasons I never mentioned; just that it was a triggering event), then I'm comfy calling that out as pedantic.

[Gust Hubb]

Anyone know why the protests targeted CNN in Atlanta?

[Malankazooie]

For the criminal justice knowledge base here (or those who have a background in the discipline) - what does a third-degree murder charge entail? Is that tantamount to a manslaughter charge?