[Werthead]

QuickTidal, on 29 January 2021 - 02:58 PM, said:

This is such a petulant complaint. You're not the first person I've seen comment about this, but it's as completely exasperating as "The Eagles should have taken Frodo to Mordor to destroy the ring"...just enjoy the MCU for what it is.

The eagles-in-Middle-earth thing is explained or inferred multiple in the text though (the Eagles don't want to go, they can't carry people very far in one go because they get tired and need to take breaks frequently, Sauron has an air force which could intercept them and the Eagles could be corrupted by the Ring and deliver Frodo straight to Barad-dur).

The food supply thing is a reasonable issue to raise as the MCU has done a good job of addressing some of the secondary issues raised by their storytelling in the past (like having entire TV shows and comics about the people cleaning up the mess left behind by the latest superhero battle). And there are some pretty easy solutions: Prof. Hulk certainly could of thought of that consequence (he had the presence of mind not to have people blip into mid-air or in empty elevator shafts, or just empty space) and wished a whole ton of food to accompany the unsnappening. A single line of dialogue to that effect somewhere would be nice.

Obviously there are people who don't like to engage with entertainment or art on any kind of intellectual level and prefer to sit there and watch the pretty colours without thinking. But that's not an excuse to try to condescend to those who do like to engage with material on another level.

Quote

It will be whoever they got to play

Spoiler

Mephisto

the current theory is

Spoiler

Al Pacino

Highly improbable.

Spoiler

If you think Disney are going to have Literal Satan showing up on one of their TV shows, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. A massively reconceptualised version of the character who is an alien or sorcerer? Maybe. But Comic Book Mephisto is not showing up in the MCU, unless Disney have way more balls than I think they have.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 29 January 2021 - 03:57 PM

[QuickTidal]

Werthead, on 29 January 2021 - 03:56 PM, said:

Obviously there are people who don't like to engage with entertainment or art on any kind of intellectual level and prefer to sit there and watch the pretty colours without thinking. But that's not an excuse to try to condescend to those who do like to engage with material on another level.

Charming. Yeah, I guess I'm just too dumb, huh? Gods forbid I don't hyper focus on parts of the story that don't pertain or matter to the one being told.

Werthead, on 29 January 2021 - 03:56 PM, said:

Quote

It will be whoever they got to play

Spoiler

Mephisto

the current theory is

Spoiler

Al Pacino

Highly improbable.

Spoiler

If you think Disney are going to have Literal Satan showing up on one of their TV shows, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. A massively reconceptualised version of the character who is an alien or sorcerer? Maybe. But Comic Book Mephisto is not showing up in the MCU, unless Disney have way more balls than I think they have.

Spoiler

You might want to investigate the various Easter eggs that have already occurred on the show, and the MAJORITY of behind the scenes chatter about the character playing a big role. Start with "For the Children" and where Wiccan and Speed actually come from in the source material and go from there.

And set up for disappointment? What the hell are you talking about? I don't care either way, I'm just saying that Bettany is talking about whoever is playing Mephisto as no one else really fits into the world of W/V, certainly not the people you mentioned or their characters. If that turns out not to be the case, I won't care either way.

[Macros]

NERD FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QuickTidal]

Talking about todays ep of W/V:

Spoiler

I was expecting a "let's see these events from the outside POV" episode, but I didn't expect it so soon, nor did I expect it to be a Primer for the show itself.

Firstly, can I say that having side characters from CAPTAIN MARVEL, ANT-MAN, and THOR team up is something I never knew I wanted, but I'm so pleased with.

I think Jimmy and Darcy especially have a great chemistry, and enjoyed the heck out of them this episode.

And yeah, seeing the Blip (Bruce's Snap everyone back) was really cool. It also explains why Cap Marvel seemingly left earth for so long before ENDGAME....she lost Maria Rambeau to Cancer, and Monica and Fury to the Snap.

It's also interesting to think that as the scenes in the hospitals play out...Thanos is beginning his attack on the A HQ. Just a really cool juxtaposition.

Seeing Dead/Zombie Vision was CREEPY....and I guess the assumption is that Wanda is puppeting a dead Vision around in her world? The Russo's were asked where Vision's body was after Endgame, and they played coy and said "Oh..what a good story for another time"....I think this is that time. I also wondered if everyone in the town was dead too...but as they are figuring out the Cast, they 100% would hav mentioned if they were all "dead" in reality...so I think only Vision is dead and being puppeted around by Wanda.

Also, after expecting this weeks ep to be the Family Ties ep, this one threw me a bit....but the aspect change and the clear budget on display was a REALLY nice fresh MCU switchup.

I asked what happened to the bee guy from ep 2 and someone said he shows up in Ep 3 as the ice cream truck guy...so Wanda just incorporated him into the reality...as opposed to Monica who got booted for mentioning Ultron and really pissing Wanda off/threatening her reality.

Anyways, GREAT ep, really looking fwd to next week.

[Cause]

Spoiler

Well I was coming to talk about the blip too. The simple truth is that marvel let the blip,last for five years to sell the stakes. This was huge. Half the world vanished. The hero’s were defeated. However they also do an amazing job of cheapening it too.

How many people are now polygamists? What does the trauma of losing half the world and than gaining it back do the psyche of the world. Who owns your house now? It’s nice that she gets her job at sword back right away but for most people I’d say they lost their jobs. What happened to their bank accounts? Where is there stuff? If my roommate was dead for 5 years I’d help myself to their laptop.

Instead in Spider-Man we got a cute joke that the kids IDs say they should be legally old enough to drink but they shouldn’t really be allowed. I mean, maybe put that info on the ID?

I knew the second the blip was undone we would never really delve into these problems. We will also never really delve into why tony stark can and has solved the world energy crisis but at the same time he hasn’t, however everytime they show the blip they remind us that the consequences don’t follow the logic of the world. Which is for the most part how our world would work.

[QuickTidal]

Spoilering this because HOLY FUCK....

Spoiler

Well there it is. Evan Peters Pietro/Quicksilver from the Foxverse X-MEN films brought into the MCU reality by a batshit-grieving Wanda Maximoff. I mean the whole episode was GREAT, with the kids growing at will, and especially Vision questioning the reality and Wanda going evil outside the bubble ect. Fun fact: The scene where Wanda steals Vision's body was originally supposed to be an ENDGAME post-credits scene, but the Russo Bros. decided to leave it out to have ENDGAME be a real capper to the first ten years.

So let's talk about what this means. It means that Wanda is FUCKING POWERFUL. Like way more powerful than anyone thought. Even in this one Jimmy and Darcy talk about how ridiculous it would be for a single person to be able to manipulate all the tiny facets of Westview and control everyone...so after Vision repeatedly questions the reality and basically confronts Wanda almost coming to blows...she RIPS (a) Pietro/Quicksilver into the bubble...and since her brother is dead in the MCU, she gets the next best thing...a Pietro from an alternate reality and "recasts" him as Darcy puts it.
AMENDMENT...Wanda says "I didn't do it" when the doorbell rings...so it's either the villain who did it, or possibly one of the boys who only heard her say "I have brother, he lives far away" and since their real uncle is dead they would not know which one to "pull" and got the X-Men one...hnmmm layers upon layers..

Aside from the one thing we now know, no one is dead, not even Vision...she somehow resurrected him and that "zombie Vision" we saw her see was just a memory. This makes sense since only a resurrected Vision not puppeted by her completely would be able to start sussing out that something stinks in Westview. Darcy and Jimmy ask how it's possible she did that without the mind stone...but what if she has it?

I said before I felt like this show would be a masterpiece when done...and I think that's bearing fruit.

Think about it.

Disney/Marvel bought Fox and got access to the Fox-verse X-Men, the FF, and Deadpool. But those series have established universes...and we are headed into Phase 4 MCU with films like the DOCTOR STRAGE & THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS, and the ANT-MAN QUANTUMANIA (Quantum realm)...and they found an amazingly perfect way to bring them together. Killing off Pietro in AGE OF ULTRON...something I'm SURE was not planned for this use...opens up the most organic way to unite the universes, bring Evan Peters ALIVE Pietro into the MCU....now Wanda has ripped a whole in realties. You can't stopper that bottle now without massive help. I feel like this is the catalyst for what happens in DS2...which we know Wanda is in.

That's fucking GENIUS. Like we don't need anything else now to link the two. Evan Peters does all the work simply by dint of being the same guy as the most powerful Avengers brother.

Also, let's not quibble...Evan Peters Quicksilver is AMAZING and a thousand times better than the guy from AoU.

So now we can have the X-MEN and we already know that the FANTASTIC FOUR are coming.

Oh and I heard that they are going to have Deadpool start "cleaning up timelines" in his MCU appearance...which is awesome.

Anyways, KILLER episode.

Oh and for anyone who thinks that this isn't the alt-reality Pietro/Peter? The audio description on D+ reads "In Westview, Wanda stares at the version of Pietro from the X-Men films."

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 February 2021 - 03:42 PM

[Macros]

God damnit Disney.

We don't need this much marvel!

Or do we?


Hmmmmm


Am I alone in the concern that all the IPs coming into the house of mouse means we are headed into saturation territory, and it will all end up being too fucking much stuff going on

[QuickTidal]

Oh and something I just thought of...

Spoiler

If we didn't have Mutants with the X-Gene in the MCU reality....we do now. What if QS is the catalyst for Mutants in this reality?

either VIA SWORD experimentation, or more likely through Wanda somehow

instead of House of M's "No More Mutants"....how about a reverse "All the mutants"

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 February 2021 - 03:03 PM

[Cause]

I must say it was a slow burn the first 3 episodes but I think this show could actually end up being a work of genius. Time will tell but I’m keen for the next episode.


@macros I share your concern. More Star Wars hasn’t proven to be better Star Wars

[Aptorian]

Macros, on 05 February 2021 - 02:23 PM, said:

God damnit Disney.

We don't need this much marvel!

Or do we?


Hmmmmm


Am I alone in the concern that all the IPs coming into the house of mouse means we are headed into saturation territory, and it will all end up being too fucking much stuff going on

I was burned out on marvel by the second avengers movie. They're cool action films but the Marvel fan in me cares little for the product.

[Malankazooie]

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier trailer during Superb Owl. ... meh.

I've become disinterested in Marvel content myself. Have yet to watch any of the Thanos stuff. I liked that new Spider-Man with Tom Holland, and want to see the second one he's in. That's MCU, right? I think prior to that I either watched Captain Stars and Stripes teaming up with a "winter solder" or something. Or it may have been the one where the guy shrinks to the size of boogers. That was another move though, Honey I Shrunk the Kids? Not sure.

I am interested to see what they do with the What If...? series. I would like to see them take chances with that. Wandavision sounds like it would be up my alley, and they are doing interesting things with that, other than that most of the MCU product is predictable special effects fare for kids super hero worship. With What If...? they could really paint outside that box. Lets see if they are brave enough to do so.

[Cause]

The latest wandavision episode felt like a step down in intensity after the previous one.

[QuickTidal]

So now I'm starting to think there is a bigger name/reveal behind Olsen's tweet about a "Luke On Mandalorian" level cameo on WANDAVISION...I've been very much thinking it's Reed Richards, and I'm still convinced that's the scientist Monica is talking about in the last ep and the one before it (the one she's to meet "on the ridge")...but now I'm beginning to think that while Reed is big...he MAY not be a Luke-On-Mando level Cameo since many won't know the FF or connect them...

...but Michael Fassbender's Magneto...Wanda's father from the other universe...WOULD be that kind of batshit "everyone knows him" cameo.

Thoughts?

[D'rek]

I'm not so convinced that new-Quicksilver is actually X-Men DotF Quicksilver yet. Or at least not 100% him. Wanda and him have talked about their childhood a lot, and he remembers everything the MCU Quicksilver should remember perfectly and naturally, while X-Men Quicksilver had a completely different childhood/backstory, no?

You could say she's rewritten his memory completely, except if she did why is he still aware of her controlling everything and him being summoned into the town from somewhere else at all? Seems like he's being controlled more like how Vision is - remembers and aware of the before, but still gently coerced into playing along most of the time despite being aware of it. But then he shouldn't have all these made-up childhood memories.

Of course they could handwave all that aside as "doesn't matter if it's inconsistent", but assuming they don't do that I think maybe Quicksilver will turn out to be from *an* other dimension that has mutants but still not the same as the X-Men movies dimension (which would perhaps make even more sense from a business/creativity standpoint - then Marvel can pull in certain actors/elements from the X-Men movies by saying "Yup, so-and-so looks the same and this thing happened in both these other mutant dimensions" but recast/change whatever else they don't want to keep from those movies).

And no, I don't think they'll do a Magneto cameo. How would that even work storyline-wise? Sword-Woman has known him for years but only as an engineer, and he hasn't been involved in any other events this whole time?

[Cause]

I actually wasn’t sure if his memories were real fake or fit his back story. I know he was in America when they X-men found him but was he always American?

But Wanda does say something to him once about that’s not how I remember it. Whcih I thought was supposed to be a hint at their different memories. Also where is Wanda in the X-men movies? I can’t even remember if she was mentioned or Ben alive?

But it does seem like she didn’t summon him herself. Wandas powers are strong and I have no knowledge of Mephisto who I believe other forum members have hinted is a likely culprit but it seems while Wanda is def a villain she may also be being used as well. Her powers which are breaking the fabric of reality may also be helping let something in maybe? And that thing might be trying to manipulate her to make it happen?

I mean Wanda I believe from house of M has always been tricky but they won’t want to make her a full blown villain who puppets people like robots without some option for us to forgive her?

[QuickTidal]

D, on 16 February 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

I'm not so convinced that new-Quicksilver is actually X-Men DotF Quicksilver yet. Or at least not 100% him.

It's him. There are "leaks" that reportedly confirm it outright. This makes sense as I said since SPIDER-MAN: FFH (takes place 7 months after W/V) already has the Tobey McGuire movies JK Simmons version of JJJ. And Fiege said that WANDAVISION, DS 2: MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS (which we know Wanda is in), and SPIDER-MAN 3 all comprise the "Multiverse arc" of Phase 4 MCU. I've heard Peters has a "slow motion" scene in one of the remaining episodes like he does in the X-Men movies.

D, on 16 February 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

Wanda and him have talked about their childhood a lot, and he remembers everything the MCU Quicksilver should remember perfectly and naturally, while X-Men Quicksilver had a completely different childhood/backstory, no?

You forget that Wanda controls EVERYTHING in Westview, this includes her brother. He remembers because she's pumped those memories into him. She may have accidentally summoned him there...but once he was there, she controlled him.

D, on 16 February 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

You could say she's rewritten his memory completely, except if she did why is he still aware of her controlling everything and him being summoned into the town from somewhere else at all?

I would expect because he's from another universe. That likely messes with her ability to control him completely and keep his mind wiped.

D, on 16 February 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

Seems like he's being controlled more like how Vision is - remembers and aware of the before, but still gently coerced into playing along most of the time despite being aware of it. But then he shouldn't have all these made-up childhood memories.

Vision is NOT aware of before though. He literally has no idea what or how he was prior to Westview. He doesn't remember anything of his life from AoU until IW. He's said that a few times.

D, on 16 February 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

And no, I don't think they'll do a Magneto cameo. How would that even work storyline-wise?

Every time Wanda speaks about someone/something from before, they appear. She told the boys about Pietro, and he appears. On the last episode she spoke with Pietro about their parents...and lo and behold, one might appear. I'm not saying it's a given that he appears...but it's certainly possible.

D, on 16 February 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:

Sword-Woman has known him for years but only as an engineer, and he hasn't been involved in any other events this whole time?

You're conflating two things I said. The person Monica (I assume that's "SWORD person" you're talking about? Monica Rambeau?) is talking about is a different character who I think will be Reed Richards. I wasn't saying that Magneto was that person, but that Magneto would be the "Luke-level"cameo because how many people know Reed Richards to make that cameo be as mind blowing as she's positing?

But who knows, it could still be just Doctor Strange...but that's not as exciting a cameo since we know Olsen is IN DS 2.

[D'rek]

Yes, Rambeau. Couldn't remember her name, exactly, I kept thinking Rondo but knew that was wrong. I am doubtful of her engineer being Reed Richards, either, seems like a pretty small way to introduce someone as big as Mr Fantastic... and also I am just plain skeptical that they would put not only the first avenger-turned-antagonist AND kick-starting the multiverse rules that will dominate most of the MCU for the next half a decade AND the first crossover character acquired from the Fox properties into Wandavision but also make it the introduction point of Mr Fantastic (AND Magneto?) in the MCU. It's not even a film, let alone one of the "major" MCU films, I just don't think they would try to cram that many big things into one TV show. It'd be like having the X-Men and the next major antagonist all debuted in the first Ant-Man movie.


"You forget that Wanda controls EVERYTHING in Westview" -> Except for all the times things don't go her way. Mainly with Vision. But also with Geraldine not being perfectly integrated, Agnes going off-script or asking for retakes, the radio waves, drones, the beekeeper guy... if Wanda had total absolute control over everything none of those would have ever appeared in Vision's sight and he wouldn't be finding his coworkers odd or escaping or whatnot. And she certainly doesn't seem to be completely in control, since she's surprised by things, had to ask Quicksilver why he looks different, has to redo scenes, etc.

Sorry, I don't mean Vision is aware of things before Westview (though he does have a general vague understanding of the world, just no specifics of his own backstory), but I mean when things are weird he remembers them, he doesn't just go back to acting normal like the others in town (e.g. his boss and wife going straight from almost dying to acting like it never happened).

And leaks shmeaks, I wouldn't put any stock in them. Disney/Marvel know how to goad the fanbase with hints and teases for perpetual free publicity and audience engagement. Some MCU leaks and up true, some don't, the more attention you give them the more you're just playing their game.

Quote

It's him. There are "leaks" that reportedly confirm it outright. This makes sense as I said since SPIDER-MAN: FFH (takes place 7 months after W/V) already has the Tobey McGuire movies JK Simmons version of JJJ. And Fiege said that WANDAVISION, DS 2: MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS (which we know Wanda is in), and SPIDER-MAN 3 all comprise the "Multiverse arc" of Phase 4 MCU. I've heard Peters has a "slow motion" scene in one of the remaining episodes like he does in the X-Men movies.

None of that counters the idea that he'll just be "Quicksilver from dimension X01567 who has almost the exact same backstory as Quicksilver from dimension X01633".

[QuickTidal]

D, on 16 February 2021 - 06:57 PM, said:

"You forget that Wanda controls EVERYTHING in Westview" -> Except for all the times things don't go her way. Mainly with Vision. But also with Geraldine not being perfectly integrated, Agnes going off-script or asking for retakes, the radio waves, drones, the beekeeper guy... if Wanda had total absolute control over everything none of those would have ever appeared in Vision's sight and he wouldn't be finding his coworkers odd or escaping or whatnot. And she certainly doesn't seem to be completely in control, since she's surprised by things, had to ask Quicksilver why he looks different, has to redo scenes, etc.

Yes, and this explains Peter being able to fight the conditioning too.

D, on 16 February 2021 - 06:57 PM, said:

And leaks shmeaks, I wouldn't put any stock in them. Disney/Marvel know how to goad the fanbase with hints and teases for perpetual free publicity and audience engagement. Some MCU leaks and up true, some don't, the more attention you give them the more you're just playing their game.

Sorry, I should be clearer, these are Thai leaks of the synopsis's that have been right on the money down to the smallest detail for the synopsis's of Episodes 4-6 so far. I believe they were audio descriptions on some server for the Thai version of the Disney+ that accidentally were there in full for the whole series when only 2 episodes had premiered. They were pulled quickly, but the people who saw them reported them. At no point has any aspect of those specific leaks been off on the content of Episode 4-6. So I'm pretty sure episode 7 leaks will be accurate too.

D, on 16 February 2021 - 06:57 PM, said:

None of that counters the idea that he'll just be "Quicksilver from dimension X01567 who has almost the exact same backstory as Quicksilver from dimension X01633".

Can you explain to me what purpose using Evan Peters serves then? This is the MCU. They don't do things for no reason, and if the only reason to use Evan is because some fans might know he's the QS from the X-Men films...that's an audience tell...not a story one. There's no reason whatsoever to use Evan Peters QS from a narrative angle unless it's actually him and the reason it's actually him is the multiverse is now open.

And Disney didn't buy Fox (X-Men, FF, DP) to then abandon its contents completely. They bought them to use them to parlay that into their MCU by way of the Multiverse (I mean DS 2 is literally called THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS...) that already exists with JJJ in FFH. We also know that Tobey McGuire AND Andrew Garfield are going to be in SPIDER-MAN 3 along with Holland, and form what I hear Chris Evans playing a Hydra Version of Cap AND reprising Johnny Storm from the FF movies.

Ask yourself why they'd use Evan Peters in WV (the first show in the Multiverse arc as per Kevin Fiege)...if it wasn't intended to be his X-Men version specifically? They could have cast anyone.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 16 February 2021 - 07:10 PM

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 16 February 2021 - 07:08 PM, said:

D, on 16 February 2021 - 06:57 PM, said:

None of that counters the idea that he'll just be "Quicksilver from dimension X01567 who has almost the exact same backstory as Quicksilver from dimension X01633".

Can you explain to me what purpose using Evan Peters serves then? This is the MCU. They don't do things for no reason, and if the only reason to use Evan is because some fans might know he's the QS from the X-Men films...that's an audience tell...not a story one. There's no reason whatsoever to use Evan Peters QS from a narrative angle unless it's actually him and the reason it's actually him is the multiverse is now open.

And Disney didn't buy Fox (X-Men, FF, DP) to then abandon its contents completely. They bought them to use them to parlay that into their MCU by way of the Multiverse (I mean DS 2 is literally called THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS...) that already exists with JJJ in FFH. We also know that Tobey McGuire AND Andrew Garfield are going to be in SPIDER-MAN 3 along with Holland, and form what I hear Chris Evans playing a Hydra Version of Cap AND reprising Johnny Storm from the FF movies.

Ask yourself why they'd use Evan Peters in WV (the first show in the Multiverse arc as per Kevin Fiege)...if it wasn't intended to be his X-Men version specifically? They could have cast anyone.

I imagine it was something along the lines of...

"Hey let's bring Quicksilver back!"
"Sure! Y'know, people really like Evan Peters and those slow-mo scenes from the X-Men movies, can we do something like that?"
"Even better, let's do EXACTLY that again. The fans will love it and we can milk it for tons of Youtuber 'ermagerd reaction videos' extra publicity hype."
"Sweet! But how're we going to integrate that storywise? Wanda was a little American 8-year-old in DotF."
"We have a whole mutliverse now. We'll just bring in Evan Peters and the character will be exactly like he was in the X-Men movies, but when anyone asks about his background we say he still had the Sokovian background with whatever the screenplay writers want. We'll just say he's from an X-Men dimension where all the cool stuff from the movies happened but not the rest."
"Oh good, and then we can ditch the stupid accent, too!"
"Kevin, is all that okay with you?"
"Sure. It's not like we can bring back Hugh Jackman for the 8 different movies Wolverine is going to be in, anyway. Had to happen eventually, might as well kickstart it with an X-Men character/actor everyone liked and who's happy to reprise the role."

[Cause]

So Wanda was in the X-men movies? As an 8 year old? I have no memory of her. Also that would mean clearly not twins