Malazan Empire: Criticism of Malazan Book of the Fallen - Malazan Empire

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Criticism of Malazan Book of the Fallen

#301 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 01:43 PM

What I'm still not over is...how in the world did Karsa manage to kill TWO Deragoth's?
But once again, the only true resurrected character that has played a major role has been Ganoes Paran.
Coltaine - k we figured if he died he'd be brought back through their vodo magic lol. But Erikson has said he plays no role in the series
Dukier - same deal with Coltaine. He got that viel from him, but what major role do you think he's going to play?
BB's - some might return as ghosts and as for WJ the one we care about most once again Erikson has said he is gone for good.
Brys - not coming back either in my opinion.
Toc - never actually died, his body was so broken that something had to be done
If I'm missing some, please enlighten me:D I'm sure there might be some from MT oh yeah okay Shruq - she was dead to begin with never really brough back to life
Kettle - yeah I don't quite remember much about her.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
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#302 User is offline   polishgenius 

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 03:59 PM

Jen said:

And polishgenius...what difference in class between GotM and the rest? MoI stands right up there with Gardens, if not higher, in terms of epic fantasy. DG and the Chain of Dogs deserve nothing short of a knighthood for Steven:p


Other way around. It's just my opinion, but there are some little things- phrases and inconsistensies- that mark out GotM as not quite as good as the rest of the series, and it's definitely obvious that there was a certain amount of time between writing it and DG.
It's still a cut above most other fantasy, though.
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#303 User is offline   Tes'thesula 

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 07:58 PM

my small criticism is the way in which SE writes conversation between family members, thinking specifically of MT (as its the one im rereading right now) and trull's family and Brys and bros.. The conversations do not seem to flow the way in which family members talk, rather they seem like old comrades, not life long family...and with edur living even loinger it seems even more strained

well thats my only real problem, apart from the occasional inconsistency
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#304 User is offline   Danforth 

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 06:20 PM

I dont know if this has been bought up in the last 31 pages, which i couldnt be bothered to read fully, the two things that bug me about Eriksons writing is, firstly his view of faith, why would the Pannion peasants willing commit themselves to cannibalism in the name of faith? And every character that is seemingly stupid, ie Bole Brothers, Pust, Kruppe etc is the biggest genious in the world? There seems to be no bravado (in most cases) everyone plays down there intelligence, it makes for an interesting story but I don't buy it.
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#305 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 06:31 PM

Why does anyone do anything in the name of faith? It's a very powerful tool if used properly and the Pannion did just that. Just look at the way faith is used in our own world to do "evil".
How are Pust and Kruppe seemingly stupid? From when you first meet Kruppe I got the feeling that he wasn't what he seemed. He was never portrayed as being seemingly stupid to me. With Pust, it was the same thing. Sure I hated him, but never thought him a stupid person.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
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#306 User is offline   Trotts 

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 06:38 PM

pust never strikes me as stupid, simly rambling
and i dont see how kruppe could ever be described as stupid except by murillio and coll but i think thats only because kruppe keeps em like that.

the bole brothers ill grant you definetly act quite stupid, but i get the feeling thats why they were put in, to give some comic relief

tehol acted stupid, but only because he had been planning the downfall of letharas for a long long long time

then there are characters like quick ben, who arent humble at all ;) quick is the first to toot his own horn, hehe
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#307 User is offline   Danforth 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 12:56 AM

Theres evil and theres eating your friends for no real reason, i agree that faith is a powerful tool, but I think Erikson has slightly overestimated peoples willingness to be lead.

Ok stupid was a harsh word, i meant talking gibberish and looking unassuming. It takes a very special person to not be able to brag about there own intelligence, but like I said I would have Erikson write no other way, it makes an excellent story. You're right Trotts there are characters who do the opposite, Quick and Rake are good examples.
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#308 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 02:00 AM

Well not really. Look at what people are doing in our own world. All these people killing themselves and others in the name of "faith" really to me is no different than the Malazan world. The Seer controlled these people completely, and so it doesn't strike me as odd or over the edge. These things can be done.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
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#309 User is offline   caladanbrood 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 02:21 AM

I think comparing the Pannion Domin to the real world is stretching it a bit far, Folken:p
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
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#310 User is offline   Danforth 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 08:37 AM

Ok the fact that the Seer controls them is fine, in that way like Caladan said it is no way comparable to the real world.
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#311 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 12:28 PM

Hi guys!

I just got word from my contact at Transworld, and she will be happy to arrange an interview with Steven Erikson for me!;) Lucky me, I know!

As always, feel free to sumbit the questions you would like me to ask the author. I will select a number of questions from the fans to add to the interview.

Remember that your comments and observations are always appreciated. . .:)

Oh, and by the way, I should be able to announce that The Bonehunter contest tonight! So get ready to register!

Pat
www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com
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#312 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 02:40 PM

caladanbrood said:

I think comparing the Pannion Domin to the real world is stretching it a bit far, Folken:p

you're just trying to increase your post count so hush!
well so am I...
But heres my answer to both of ya then "It's fantasy...why are you complainin that its strecthin it too far then? It doesn't have to be real."
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
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#313 User is offline   Danforth 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 05:30 PM

I know its fantasy that is why I stated and keep stating that it makes a good story, I was simply trying to start a discussion about the issue of faith. Well done with the 1000 posts btw.
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#314 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 08:11 PM

Well okay, there are quite a lot of stories of cannabilism in stories of survival. People will go through greath lengths to survive and it has happened. Also cannibalism was an integral part of Fijian culture in the not so distant past. Setting faith aside, it was the only way to feed the people of he Domin and thats what they did.
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#315 User is offline   Agraba 

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 12:47 AM

Okay, has this been mentioned?

Way too many retarted names. Jheck, and Lether, and Kuru Qan, and T'lan Imass, and Rhivi, and K'chain Chemalle, and the barren wastelands of Un'kuru Ede'quab'ossi located in the six areqs of Oroch'aken.

There's also the fact that in Memories of Ice, women were referred to as "sir". That bothered me a bit. Is that done in England?
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#316 User is offline   caladanbrood 

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 12:58 AM

Agraba said:

There's also the fact that in Memories of Ice, women were referred to as "sir". That bothered me a bit. Is that done in England?

Where is that? Must admit I didn't notice that at the time...
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
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#317 User is offline   Trotts 

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:05 AM

im kinda confused as to why the names are retarded?
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#318 User is offline   Danforth 

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 08:41 AM

@ Jen

But didn't the Pannions have any other options, surely going from civilised society to tribe-esque cannibalism is a significant culture change, and they would do anything to save themselves the horror. The tribes mentioned grew up with the notion of cannibalism and they did not do it to survive, it was more of a ritual of war.

@ Agraba

I think the names of Malaz add alot of depth and richness to the world, I would hate for them all to be called Bob and Ken, wouldn't you?
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#319 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:14 PM

@Danforth - well whatever my point still stands, its not as far fetched imo, simply because it used to be a part of one of our own cultures. But on the option of survival yes, they did, when the army wasn't on a continuos trek across the continent. It becomes quite difficult to provide for such a large army.

@Agraba - agreed with what others have said. Adds depth, I mean honestly if Anomander Rake was called Bob Hope...you seriously believe that it would have the same effect? no

@Brood - yup the Grey Swords reffered to everyone as Sir. If you remember back to when they first got that female recurit they called her sir quite a few times. But straight from dictionary.com

Sir: Used as an honorific before the given name or the full name of baronets and knights.

so it is allowed and makes sense in the context Steven Erikson uses it.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
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#320 Guest_BAD_*

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 02:20 PM

Agraba said:

Okay, has this been mentioned?

Way too many retarted names. Jheck, and Lether, and Kuru Qan, and T'lan Imass, and Rhivi, and K'chain Chemalle, and the barren wastelands of Un'kuru Ede'quab'ossi located in the six areqs of Oroch'aken.


Do these actual countries in our world annoy with their names too:-

Abkhazia;
Azerbaijan;
Burkina Faso;
Côte d'Ivoire;
Djibouti;
Guinea-Bissau;
Kyrgyzstan;
Liechtenstein;
Nagorno-Karabakh;
Nicaragua;
Palau;
Qatar;
Timor-Leste;

;) (yes I just used Wikipedia :) )

Agraba said:

There's also the fact that in Memories of Ice, women were referred to as "sir". That bothered me a bit. Is that done in England?


You missed the even more obvious point. IIRC the characters ALL spoke English!!1OMGzZzWTH!1!! :) Posted Image
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