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Criticism of Malazan Book of the Fallen
#21 Guest_tamaris_*
Posted 16 May 2004 - 08:06 PM
SE is a bugger? is he really like "that"?
#22
Folken 
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Posted 08 March 2005 - 08:33 PM
can someone explain's SE's obsession with the phrase "must needs..." I have never understood the grammer in there either...yet its in every book and almost every character says it...for the life of me I can never make sense of the wording
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#23
Abyss
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Posted 17 June 2004 - 01:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Daze:
...The long quotes/and passages preceding the chapters are starting to become cumbersome and boring...
Agreed. They were generally a lot more vague and less relevant in MT than in previous books.
That said, i still like them - they add context and depth to the whole Malazan world.
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#24 Guest_Cyclone_*
Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:26 AM
If I had to criticise, it would be the lack of clarity in the relative powers between the different races.
For example, raest (the released jaghut tyrant) was winning against 3 soletaken andii (including anomander) without apparently having access to his full powers (as his finest had been stolen).
And during the main part of the imass/jaghut wars both sides seemed to be less powerful than the fokrul assail.
Yes in Midnight Tides a fokrul assail is released from a tomb, but defeated quite easily.
For example, raest (the released jaghut tyrant) was winning against 3 soletaken andii (including anomander) without apparently having access to his full powers (as his finest had been stolen).
And during the main part of the imass/jaghut wars both sides seemed to be less powerful than the fokrul assail.
Yes in Midnight Tides a fokrul assail is released from a tomb, but defeated quite easily.
#25 Guest__*
Posted 15 April 2004 - 08:50 AM
I don't think there are really that many super characters in his books. When compared to the actual population of the world. I think it is just that they seem to be always drawn to gether and concentrated in a few places. But that's a theme of Eriksins books - Power draws Power - a "Convergence".
***MIDNIGHT TIDES SPOILERS***
***MIDNIGHT TIDES SPOILERS***
***MIDNIGHT TIDES SPOILERS***
In referance to the Panion Battles. While yes most of the armies were human they had a hell of alot of Undead K'ell Hunters. They were the ones who originally nearly wiped out the entire Tiste Andii Race:-
From MT prologue
And also only four of these K'ell Hunters killed Treach an ancient Soletaken. These were pretty deadly dudes.
Then Pannion also had those demon possesed Vultures (?) what the great ravens were said to stay away from. They were crazily powerful too. And also the advantage of massive numbers.
And the complexity yeah everyone hates that they love it so much. It has taken so much of my freetime. . . But if I hadn't found this site about the books I would have just left my wonderings in my mind and left it at that. . . the bliss of ignorance
.
***MIDNIGHT TIDES SPOILERS***
***MIDNIGHT TIDES SPOILERS***
***MIDNIGHT TIDES SPOILERS***
In referance to the Panion Battles. While yes most of the armies were human they had a hell of alot of Undead K'ell Hunters. They were the ones who originally nearly wiped out the entire Tiste Andii Race:-
From MT prologue
quote:
. . . the midnight banners of the Tiste Andii. A thousand warriors left perhaps less. Victory was a more dubious claim for these batttered allies. They had engaged the K'ell Hunters, the elite blood kin of the three Matrons. Four hundred thousand Tiste Andii, against sixty thousand K'ell Hunters. . .
And also only four of these K'ell Hunters killed Treach an ancient Soletaken. These were pretty deadly dudes.
Then Pannion also had those demon possesed Vultures (?) what the great ravens were said to stay away from. They were crazily powerful too. And also the advantage of massive numbers.
And the complexity yeah everyone hates that they love it so much. It has taken so much of my freetime. . . But if I hadn't found this site about the books I would have just left my wonderings in my mind and left it at that. . . the bliss of ignorance
.
#26
Folken
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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:41 PM
I like it too...but does it make sense grammatically? It's always been an issue with me...hes the first person that I know has used that.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#27 Guest_dragonchaser_*
Posted 08 November 2004 - 05:09 AM
back to the women soldiers...
im not so sure that reference to medeival history is relevant when talking about a magically imbued world where entire worlds can be destroyed at the whim of a minor god. theres certainly no precident for that where i live.
even if you are convinced that women wouldnt be in the military its plain to see that the malazan army is highly progressive and it fights using discipline and structure. these arent whordes of skyclad celts running down a hill swinging double handed swords, they are solders fighting shield to shield where strength of will and courage is more important that physical strength.
im sure the lack of women in the military is more a social thing than for any physiological issue. after all people come in all shapes and sizes
peace
im not so sure that reference to medeival history is relevant when talking about a magically imbued world where entire worlds can be destroyed at the whim of a minor god. theres certainly no precident for that where i live.
even if you are convinced that women wouldnt be in the military its plain to see that the malazan army is highly progressive and it fights using discipline and structure. these arent whordes of skyclad celts running down a hill swinging double handed swords, they are solders fighting shield to shield where strength of will and courage is more important that physical strength.
im sure the lack of women in the military is more a social thing than for any physiological issue. after all people come in all shapes and sizes
peace
#28
Folken
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Posted 17 December 2004 - 03:12 PM
Yeah me too...I admit I was surprised at first but then it just made me love Erikson even more. It was nice to read about a world not bound by the "parameters" of gender. Other fantasy, all most all of them, men are precieved to be of higher authority and even in our own world(yes Tiste, there IS a world out side your room). Personally I hate this mentality, men and women are equal in every way. It was very nice to see Erikson move away from this, and I absolutely loved it.
I do this now to purely annoy Tiste*clears throat*
ALL HAIL ERIKSON
Oh and um...any comments on my previous post...i'd like some feed back acutally lol
I do this now to purely annoy Tiste*clears throat*
ALL HAIL ERIKSON
Oh and um...any comments on my previous post...i'd like some feed back acutally lol
quote:
Maybe the safety catch is instead of being extremely mad Brood has to be extremely depressed erm because remember when he saw all the slaughter towards the end of MoI how emotional he became? He decided that if the Seer won the war this is what would happen to the rest of the world. So he raised his hammer and asked Burn to forgive him? It was as if Brood was left broken by that sight.
...I think that makes sense erm
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#29 Guest_ocskarules_*
Posted 15 April 2004 - 02:56 AM
Dont know if its worth putting my thoughts into such a well answered thread but:
1) Although its awesome having so many super characters around it does get a little ridiculous at times- surely the alliance between the malazans and brood, rake, the tiste andi , the great crows (whose potential is 'appaling'), silverfox, QB etc could have annihalated the 'mostly' human armies of the pannion domin.
2) Although i love the complexity of thses books it does get a little tough when you have to concentrate so much on every chapter, prophecy, poem etc in case they are vital plot clues. Not after some David Gemmil style hack and slash but im only just starting to get my head round the books on my third re-read. I guess thats what makes them so rewarding though.
1) Although its awesome having so many super characters around it does get a little ridiculous at times- surely the alliance between the malazans and brood, rake, the tiste andi , the great crows (whose potential is 'appaling'), silverfox, QB etc could have annihalated the 'mostly' human armies of the pannion domin.
2) Although i love the complexity of thses books it does get a little tough when you have to concentrate so much on every chapter, prophecy, poem etc in case they are vital plot clues. Not after some David Gemmil style hack and slash but im only just starting to get my head round the books on my third re-read. I guess thats what makes them so rewarding though.
#30 Guest_Asmodeus de\'Yakshas_*
Posted 11 May 2004 - 12:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BAD:
I think the reason a lot of the Gods do the "interfering and manipulating" thing is becauase a lot of them were themselves once mortal. Shadowthrone, Cottilion, Dessembrae, Treach, Hood (I think).
A sidenote: I really hope Hood will be featured heavily in "Reaper's gale". Since he seems to be the oldest (even Raest knows of him) of the non-Elder gods and is very powerful it'll be intersting to know more about how/when he ascended and what kind of creature he really is...
#31
innokenti
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Posted 17 August 2004 - 02:48 PM
I don't really thing there is anything that can be criticised in the MBotF per se as different things appeal to different people. When reading I try not bother myself with the minor inconsistencies (which you can never tell if they really are so) and other random and insignificant problems that are nit-picks.
The only thing I can just about put forward as a good criticism is indeed the fact nobody seems to die properly - it's the fate of TV series' too...
And even so - most die enough count.
Or whatever.
The only thing I can just about put forward as a good criticism is indeed the fact nobody seems to die properly - it's the fate of TV series' too...
And even so - most die enough count.
Or whatever.
#32
Folken
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Posted 15 March 2005 - 09:47 PM
oh okay. It never really bothered me too much but my cuzn who is a big english geek...said that it made no sense yada yada so I figured I'd ask.
But glad to know it makes sense...now I won't think about it everytime I come across that phrase lol.
But glad to know it makes sense...now I won't think about it everytime I come across that phrase lol.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#33 Guest_Grey Sword_*
Posted 17 April 2004 - 12:56 PM
My problem with the series is relatively minor - There doesn't seem to be any explanation for why Felisin (the younger) in House of Chains speaks with such a sophisticated voice.
Does this indicate a problem with writing children in general, or is there a specific reason for this characterization?
There are no "ordinary" children in the series (which isn't a problem - just an observation), although the undead kid in Midnight Tides seems quite child-like in her vocabulary and sentence structure.
Does this indicate a problem with writing children in general, or is there a specific reason for this characterization?
There are no "ordinary" children in the series (which isn't a problem - just an observation), although the undead kid in Midnight Tides seems quite child-like in her vocabulary and sentence structure.
#34
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Posted 03 May 2004 - 10:00 PM
As stated in DG, the gods learned form taking direct actions - too much destruction. The games of gods are subtle, more refined - less barbaric. Power draws power, convergence occurs, and destruction reigns. Why end the game in one go?! They are immortal.
As for all the threads that converge at the end - I love it! Trying to keep tabs on everything, seeing where things meet and how they'll continue on, it's fascinating. The complexity is one of the mjor pluses of this series, that and the vast scope it encompasses - not only many worlds, but many years into the past as well.
The only real complaint I have is timeline issues - they're freaking me out, especially after MT!
As for all the threads that converge at the end - I love it! Trying to keep tabs on everything, seeing where things meet and how they'll continue on, it's fascinating. The complexity is one of the mjor pluses of this series, that and the vast scope it encompasses - not only many worlds, but many years into the past as well.
The only real complaint I have is timeline issues - they're freaking me out, especially after MT!
"The harder the world, the fiercer the honour" - Dancer
#35 Guest_Brick Tamland_*
Posted 13 May 2004 - 01:19 PM
I think Tamaris that you're a little hard on old stevie boy there, i don't think he changes the rules i just think that he keeps the reader guessing and thats the most important element within a 10 book series such as this. I think if everything were set in stone within GOTM then the rest of the series would've struggled to break out of the confines that he himself set and then you would see him changing the rules.
My only criticism is possibly several of the characters can be pretty bloody verbose but still if you've got something to say and all that!
Erikson is a bugger, he's a bloody good author with an amazing imagination but he's still a bugger!
My only criticism is possibly several of the characters can be pretty bloody verbose but still if you've got something to say and all that!
Erikson is a bugger, he's a bloody good author with an amazing imagination but he's still a bugger!
#36 Guest_Reave the Just_*
Posted 12 August 2004 - 08:13 AM
just finished MT. too tired a write a detailed review, so in brief...
great book 8/10.
a bit slow and heavy going at first (maybe a tad too much introspection and political philosophy?) but wow, what a fantastic crescendo it builds up to!! I also think this was the best Erikson's managed so far at protraying the horror of war.
Thanks Mr E. another set of great scenes to fire the imagination and make my daydreaming more interesting (the Toblakai writhing from barrow to barrow will stay with me for a while, as will Bugg's woolly tea!!!!)
great book 8/10.
a bit slow and heavy going at first (maybe a tad too much introspection and political philosophy?) but wow, what a fantastic crescendo it builds up to!! I also think this was the best Erikson's managed so far at protraying the horror of war.
Thanks Mr E. another set of great scenes to fire the imagination and make my daydreaming more interesting (the Toblakai writhing from barrow to barrow will stay with me for a while, as will Bugg's woolly tea
!!!!)
#37 Guest_Dark Daze_*
Posted 03 June 2004 - 10:02 PM
Before Midnight Tides my critiques were few and far between. Now, however, I'm starting to accumulate some.
1) The long quotes/and passages preceding the chapters are starting to become cumbersome and boring. With this last book I started skimming them to the point where I retain very little.
2) Erikson is rehashing themes and ideas and not spending enough ink exploring new ones.
1) The long quotes/and passages preceding the chapters are starting to become cumbersome and boring. With this last book I started skimming them to the point where I retain very little.
2) Erikson is rehashing themes and ideas and not spending enough ink exploring new ones.
#38 Guest__*
Posted 29 December 2004 - 03:20 AM
"My main criticism of Erikson is that the writing is sometimes a little pedestrian. " -SM
I would hug you for that, if it wouldnt be misconstrued.
At least as far as GotM is concerned this is true imo. less so in the following books.
other than that, I dont think I have anything more that hasnt been said time and again. Female characters are horrible for the most part... and the non-existent romance thing. Which beats Jordan/WoT "romance" but still...
and as I read pages 4 and 5 my mind melts but whatever. If anyone wants to REALLY debate that, make a thread and I'll step up to the plate as a sexist pig. It'll be fun. Surprisingly though, I didnt really have a problem with women in the malazan army. Because all we have seen of them has been the **** hitting the fan, and the constant need for fresh troops. The greater % of women has only been in the conscripted legions if you take a look at it. In DG there are women with Coltaine's legion...but there arent many in the rank and file (other than Sa'yless I think he mentions all of ... 2) If someone already mentioned this, sorry, but I got lost in the morass of "this book prooves my point because she has a degree (and is a rabid feminist)"
(and I DO use rabid in a joking sense, but you all know what I mean if you look beyond the rage my not-pc comment just invoked)
Oh! and I hate Rake. HATE HATE HATE. and then some. too much "im so bad ass that I need to be humanized at every turn, even though Im a god." I liked the gardens rake to some extent, but after MoI I cant stand that character at all.
thats all.
I would hug you for that, if it wouldnt be misconstrued.
At least as far as GotM is concerned this is true imo. less so in the following books. other than that, I dont think I have anything more that hasnt been said time and again. Female characters are horrible for the most part... and the non-existent romance thing. Which beats Jordan/WoT "romance" but still...
and as I read pages 4 and 5 my mind melts but whatever. If anyone wants to REALLY debate that, make a thread and I'll step up to the plate as a sexist pig. It'll be fun. Surprisingly though, I didnt really have a problem with women in the malazan army. Because all we have seen of them has been the **** hitting the fan, and the constant need for fresh troops. The greater % of women has only been in the conscripted legions if you take a look at it. In DG there are women with Coltaine's legion...but there arent many in the rank and file (other than Sa'yless I think he mentions all of ... 2) If someone already mentioned this, sorry, but I got lost in the morass of "this book prooves my point because she has a degree (and is a rabid feminist)"
(and I DO use rabid in a joking sense, but you all know what I mean if you look beyond the rage my not-pc comment just invoked)
Oh! and I hate Rake. HATE HATE HATE. and then some. too much "im so bad ass that I need to be humanized at every turn, even though Im a god." I liked the gardens rake to some extent, but after MoI I cant stand that character at all.
thats all.
#39
Imperial Historian
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Posted 18 June 2004 - 02:59 PM
potsherd? i don't recall seeing that written in any of the MBotF books, do you mean potshard? and i don't even recalls eeing that...
