Malazan Empire: Criticism of Malazan Book of the Fallen - Malazan Empire

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Criticism of Malazan Book of the Fallen

#161 Guest_Skrzypek_*

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 10:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Adaephon Ben Delat:

/Tries to see that version as a book compared to the actual version.

Nope I don't think it would compare. You wouldn't have had all those insane battles (namely Sekala Crossing, and Valar Crossing and Balahn/Ramp/Barrow), with any kind of deep meaning due to the journey taken, the journey Duiker undertook to catch up with the 'Chain of Dogs', the Khundryl allying with the Wickans and all the highly entertaining banter between the sappers and Coltaine and the Old Guard Marines who make their way back. Just wouldn't have been the same without the journey. Why do people insist on wanting total reality in SFF books? Go read a history book for that. Posted Image

And actually Coltaine sums it nicely, Page 797 DG:-

quote:
'...You wear it Historian. All that we have done avails the world naught, unless the tale is told...'


Work out from that what you will.


No doubt Chain of Dogs is great. And I agree, the book is better the way it is. It's just that sometimes Erikson makes funny assumptions. Another one: would some good fighter protect the ceda, Tiste Edur would lose. Why didn't Kuru Qain aks fr a bdyguard?
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#162 Guest_Fool_*

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 07:16 AM

There are a couple of scenes in HoC where fid is thinking of going home, but then one of the other soldiers (one of the almost ascendants iirc) asks him whats he's gonna do when he gets home. Become a mason?

In fact i'd say its more realistic that they dont much think about going home simply because after all that they went through they would feel out of place at home.
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#163 User is offline   Svaran 

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 02:35 AM

My only critique about the Malazan is that death doesn't seem to be permanent, I just wonder who has really died from the days of the Emperor, Crust and his brother, Keeper are in hiding but they are supposedly dead, Hawl wife of Admiral Nok has been until recently alive unbeknowst to Nok himself? Dancer/ Emperor ascended unbeknowst to the Empress who thought she had them assasinated. Some how Dassem whom everyone suspects of being Traveller survived his assassination, Stormy and Gesler are part of the old guard the former once an adjunct? Is Toc the elder really dead? Toc the younger died and ended up in someone else's body, The Bridegburners have now all ascended including the likes of Hedge whom we see


SPOILER


SPOILER



SPOILER



making an appearance in HOC after getting too close to an explosive in the previous book. Makes me wonder if Iktovian will ascend as surely he deserves to.
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#164 User is offline   Kimpo 

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 12:08 AM

have to point out that the bonecaster wasn't part of the group killing L'oric's familiar, Monok Ochem followed Onrack and Trull instead, leaving the Clan leader and his warriors to deal with the false god

also, about white paralt, maybe the witch was stabbed in a "better location", away from any of the main arteries?
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#165 User is offline   Matrim 

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 08:27 AM

I agree with Caldazar, these rock descriptions are kind of not needed and I mostly skip them.

------------------------------
When is the word but a sigh?
When is death our lone beholder?
When do we walk the final steps?
When can we scream instead of whisper?
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#166 Guest_Dark Daze_*

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 12:52 AM

Why should Erikson be limited by the history of Earth especially the history of medieval Europe? Is the widespread use of female soldiers any less likely than floating cities, warrens, multiple races and what not?

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#167 Guest_Harlest Eberict_*

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 11:36 AM

The only disappointment for me is part of the ending for HOC, not the ghosts, thats just about OK but the non-event of a clash between Felisin and Tavore.
Isn't Eriksons use of alchemy and the moranth munitions more "industrial/science" than most other fantasy?

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#168 Guest__*

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Posted 07 February 2004 - 07:53 AM

An extremely sexist point here, i think? Posted Image Posted Image Has anyone given thought to the idea that because the empress is a woman (Surly/Laseen) it has filtered down through the ranks of the army and such groups.

ie Laseen was sick of all the men getting all the powertrips, she offed the current emporer and his trusted companions, put herself in at the top and slowly influenced and changed rthe rest to suit her ideas? (Unfortunately it back fired cos now Kellanved and Dancer are Gods and suceed in undermining her empire as much as possible. You think Laseens a blonde in disguise Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image)

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#169 Guest_Thorokin_*

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Posted 01 February 2004 - 07:24 PM

@korik:

That was the point the Grey Swords made, actually... the citizens of Capustan had completely ignored a viable segment of their able-bodied population, simply because they were female, and the Grey Swords were able to add thousands of recruits to their ranks without taking away from the Gidrath army.

Personally, I think women make highly capable soldiers... but only if their culture allows them to. The Capans didn't think women could fight; therefore, their women didn't fight. The Malazans, on the other hand, offer women equal opportunities in the military... resulting in such skilled soldiers as Blend, Picker, and Detoran.

From a purely physical perspective, women are generally weaker than men. But studies have shown that our pain tolerance is higher, and our naturally lighter builds give us an advantage in certain situations (stealth, etc).

Then again... it's a fantasy world. A world in which a woman (Hetan) can reduce a burly caravan guard (Gruntle) to quivering, bleeding jelly, only to be so reduced herself by a fat, oily spy (Kruppe). So, logic need not apply.
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#170 Guest__*

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 02:20 PM

I think it is hard for a writer these days to come up with a charater that can't be stereotyped because there are so many damned stereotypes. And when you look at the sheer number of characters in Eriksons books some of them have to stereotypes. Surely? You can't come up with a hundred unique individuals.

And yeah the Mhybe was tad wearisome. Can't say i cared much for the whole of the assains guild in MOI either the only good thing seemed to be them getting killed.
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#171 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 11:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by halfhand:
Agree with the last bit about Kellanved. He doesn't strike me as a strong leader, or as the type to instill loyalty in his people. Maybe his ascendancy changed his personality. Posted Image

Honestly, of the two, it's the Rope who inspires confidence.. Ammanas comes across like a giggling schoolgirl for the most part.

-halfhand


Notice that cotillion mentioned at one point that Ammanas tended to exagerate his own shortness.. That would hint to Ammanas wanting to be underestimated (physoclogically, people tend to think less of short people). Ammanas is the ruler of High House Shadow, would it not be natural for him to live and breathe deception?

As to power inconcistency. In Judo, I beat a friend of mine named Thomas every time, but i lose to Fredrik most times. Thomas however, beat Fredrik without breaking a sweat
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#172 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 08:26 AM

@Skrzypek - I'll come back to you later trying to prevent msyelf from adding insults. Atm my mood aint the best and I'll probably end up being even more patronizing than usual.

quote:
Originally posted by Skrzypek:
No army in this world seems to be troubled by this kind of problem.


Just out of curiosity though... That comment was sarcastic yes? Please say it was sarcastic.
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#173 User is offline   stone monkey 

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 08:21 AM

An army made up of half women...Hmm: Given the tendency for women who spend a lot of time together to gradually coincide cycles: there's an army you wouldn't want to face for about a week each month! (Especially if you had chocolate supply wagon). Yes, I know cheap joke.(I'm not really a sexist pig, honest!)

My main criticism of Erikson is that the writing is sometimes a little pedestrian. And the feeling that everything is supposed to carry some dreadful, portentious weight can get a little wearing.

----------------
Every silver lining has a cloud...
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. … So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants. Bertrand Russell

#174 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 12:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW:
Her sales figures would seem to disagree with you.

Posted Image


I saw an interview once, of a crowd waiting to get into a Britney Spears concert. A lot of old men uttering such phrases as: "I hope she wears her school uniform" and "If she ties her hair back in a ponytail she looks like my daughter".. So I doubt the quality of her music has much to do with it at all..

but that's just me Posted Image .. And btw ChrisW, you did it wrong. You're sposed to go;

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image: TOPIC!! Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
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#175 Guest_Skrzypek_*

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 03:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Darth Morgoth:

When outnumbered by insane amounts of enemies, the last place you want to be is in a fortress with no way to get out. If Coltain stayed in Hissar he would have been surrounded and starved to death. It is as simple as that. First of all,they would have had to slaughter every single cattle because there would be no way for them to keep the hordes of animals within the walls of the keep. The food would have lasted half as long if even that.


Staying in Hissar is not the same as 'fortifying in a keep'. Coltaine could leave the civilians under guard of some Malazan troops and fight around Hissar, beating enemies, as they come, one after another.

quote:
Originally posted by Darth Morgoth:
Secondly, tens of thousands of refugees within a keep ment to hold a normal sized garrison would have ment an enormous potential for plagues and such.


Not, if the warlocks have something to say Posted Image No army in this world seems to be troubled by this kind of problem.

quote:
Originally posted by Darth Morgoth:
Thirdly, again because of the overwhelming amount of people, they may very well not have had a large enough supply of water.


Yes, but compared to the problems encountered on the desert it's a minor one. Besides, werent't there some oases around Hissar?

quote:
Originally posted by Darth Morgoth:
Furthermore, the wickans were horse warriors. They fought from horseback. Now, think back on the battles fought by coltain during the chain of dogs. Who were the deciding factors of each victory? The Warlocks, the Sappers and the Wickan riders. Hiding in a keep would have made the wickans less usefull than a regular marine.
The most important factor though, is the mobility of the chain of dogs opposed to a fortress. Against a fortress the seven cities armies could just send men against the wall until they overan the defenders and slaughtered all. With the chain of dogs, Coltain had options, he could adapt, he could withdraw, and most importantly he could reach allies. Remember that Aren was not his original destination.


As said earlier - they didn't need to hide in there. After the two first battles Coltaine had essentially no enemies around and could wait for the next armies to appear, choosing the place to encounter them, fighting on his conditions, without the problem woth refugees. And by the time Korbolo with his full force reaches Hissar, Tavore's army in there.
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#176 User is offline   Rich the Great 

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 02:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Skrzypek:
And concerning Dujek - they had no idea that T'lan Ay will come to their aid.


Actually, Silverfox did say that the T'lan Imass and the T'lan Ay were going to be there to deal with the K'ell hunters.

Also, in Hissar one would assume that there would be a fair few sympathizers with the rebellion, which would have made holding the city all but impossible for that amount of time. And Coltaine was probably thinking in the longer term scheme of things, two united Malazan armies under his command would be far more effective in putting down the rebellion rather than having one under the command of Pormqual.
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#177 Guest_Suese_*

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Posted 29 December 2003 - 02:39 PM

MOI spoilers

I am getting hung up on why in the hell Whiskeyjack and Dujek decided to split up their forces after the alliance with Brood started to crumble. Seems like poor, poor planning and strategy with no real point other than to set the stage for WJ's and BB's deaths. I thought I would get a better insight into the military situation when I reread the books, but it's not there.

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#178 Guest_Blinky_*

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 07:00 PM

I would think magic would hamper industrial revolution, but who knows.

What i sort of dislike is this whole thing about Tattersail and Parran's 'closeness'. They had, what, one week together?
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#179 User is offline   drinksinbars 

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 07:12 AM

Hmmm, how to begin after this post has raged for so long....

right here goes just dont read if i rant or babble or dont make sense, ok.

First off the women thing, it seems reasonable to me that in a world where magic existed that as such it did not depend on being a man or woman to be powerful, plus living in a world ith multiple races each one powerful in their own sense of the word then it would influence human civilisation quite strongly to such and aspect that equal opportunities arent considered. For example the large portion of races in eriksons books draw no difference int e strengths or weaknesses of the sexes, it stands to reason then that human females would not take a subservant role. Jaghut women, tiste andii(from mother dark),laseen being empress, T'lan Imass are undead so what does it matter what sex they are??

second point is the so called shallow characterisation, well if u were a bridgeburner or an immortal tiste andii chances are you have been through so much sh*t that you really are quite philisophical and not in the least bit concerned with a home that is little more than a distant memory. Plus most charcters erikson focuses on are those characters whom have a large role to play and are quite strong or intelligent enough to warrant attention therefore they are going to be strongly opinionated but reticent to reveal ever last detail. The problem of gruff marines is moot aswell because we know the world is a melting point of war with most poor people on the streets literally scraping a living together, to get into the marines is it seems quite an achievement and suriving long takes balls and strength.

The malazans remebr have only been around a short time and have created and empire from nothing, it stands to reason their army is darn good.

The technology issue is relatively simple, it seems a good level of intelligence ensures an ability to use magic, therefore those people who in our world would have invented electricty and cars etc, in eriksons world had access to magic and alternatives. The malazans are technologically advanced due to their weaponry and that they are a warlike nation of conquerors.

If there is a reasonable comment to be made against SE it is that he doesnt describe the charcters enough, i read GOTM last for some reason and always thought of quick ben as a tall thin white guy with ginger hair and a wry smile, silverfox and tattersail as some beautiful maiden, after reading GOTM i found i was way way off the mark.

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#180 Guest_Drake Labatt_*

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 12:31 PM

Outside of comments already made...

Nothing I've read yet in the Malazan series convinces me that SE can write women very well.

As the previous poster just pointed out, SE has a tendency to 'railroad' his plot. I cite High Fist Pormqual's idiocy as another example of that.

The overuse of the word 'chains'.

The ending of HoC sucked.

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