[Terez]

Briar King, on 15 June 2015 - 02:44 AM, said:

I didn't like that it was SAMs idea to become a Maester...I always respected Jon for making the decision and showing that he had what it takes to makes a sacrifice by sending his brother off for the good of the Wall. While I liked SAMs reasons it soured the affect for me a bit.

I also didn't like that. Sometimes, they change things, and you have to wonder why. This was one of those times.

Briar King, on 15 June 2015 - 02:44 AM, said:

Another mistake was not showing Stannis dead. That's gonna be a cop out if they reveal she didn't do it next season. It's Hollywood and we know they like doing things like this.

They confirmed he was dead in the interviews afterward.

[Terez]

I don't have a problem with it. It's kind of a unique scene in the show, with a death being a true delivery of justice, and the condemned meeting his justice with his last shred of honor. I never thought it was ambiguous; we see her sword swinging toward his head. With Ned Stark, we saw birds flying.

[worry]

I won't say I was disappointed by what was there, but I definitely thought it was bare bones and mostly surprise-less for readers. Essentially brought readers and non-readers up to the same place, more or less.

[worry]

I made a meme

[QuickTidal]

Overall I liked the finale, but also felt that it was lackluster at times.

Basically the three best scenes were:

Brienne finally being able to fulfill her vow to kill Stannis in Renly's name. And she did it with grace and justice. And I liked Stannis' last words as well. "Go on, do your duty."

Theon saving Sansa from crazy whatshernuts...though I could have done without watching her skull hit the rock below with a wet smack.

Arya offing Meryn was good, and I liked that it was brutal. It made my wife (who's fave character is Arya) say "Oh, she's gone a little crazy hasn't she? I dunno if that's too crazy..." at which I said "What did you think she was training to do? She wants to kill everyone on her list, and while they likely won't be as gory as this one...this was her first planned assassination. It was never going to be pretty."

The rest of the ep was middling to fine. I wish we'd have had another hour and could have SEEN the battle of Winterfell, it was cool to see the bits we saw, but it all felt like it was a little over too soon. That said, it was good that they saved the "half of everyone has left, and so did Mel" to Stannis for the beginning of this ep, so when you see the Bolton's riding out to meet him you know he's well and truly screwed.

Dany's scene with Drogon was kind of limp....but the Dothraki's horde circling was awesome.

Jon's scene was well done, but didn't have the weight I wanted it to have. It could have been shot a little better to really surprise the camera and the POV of the viewer. I DID like the "et tu Brute" moment with Jon saying "Oly?".

And no Lady Stoneheart reveal. I think as it stands not having her show up after Jon's Caesaring is going to be the biggest missed opportunity so far with the show. What was probably a shocking last scene could have been followed by an even more shocking on. I know D&D know what they are doing for the most part, but I can't say I was disappointed. That's all on me and my expectations though.

EDIT: I think this episode is beat by HARDHOME in my eyes for quality. Oh and for anyone who thinks Jon is gone for good, especially in the light of D&D and Kit interviews where they SWEAR he is gone...Kit was a part of the contract renegotiation for S7. You don't get a raise on a show you're not longer part of.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 June 2015 - 01:29 PM

[End of Disc One]

Terez, on 15 June 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

They confirmed he was dead in the interviews afterward.

Uh oh, I wonder how pissed off Linda is about this.

I'm kind of disappointed too. If we're supposed to believe he's dead, why didn't they just show it? That was a very quick cut-away.

[Terez]

We heard the noise of her steel striking flesh, but it merged with the sound of Ramsay's sword. I never doubted he was dead. You see Brienne and Pod riding out afterward.

PS: Linda has no reason to be pissed at this, since they didn't mention GRRM. That's what made her mad: that they confirmed Shireen's burning would happen in the books. They didn't confirm anything about the books this time, though I think most people will be satisfied now that Stannis is indeed dead in the books, as Ramsay said.

This post has been edited by Terez: 15 June 2015 - 02:50 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Thing is, if they are bringing Jon back (i'm assuming Mel will have something to do with that) they can't very well have Kit confirming it, it would rob the scene of all impact.

I'd be genuinely surprised if he is out personally.

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 15 June 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

Makes u wonder how impossible it will be to keep quiet when he goes back to film.

I honestly don't think it will be possible. Once they start shooting, someone will be bound to see him and let slip, be it random crew or someone near enough to take photos.

EDIT: Re-watching the Stannis scene...man, I just realized that they hit the Richard the III end HARD. Like I thought it seemed like it at first, but upon a re-watch it's glaringly Richard III's death, minus calling out for his horse. I wonder if that's a GRRM thing, or an HBO thing. Either way, well played.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 June 2015 - 05:43 PM

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 15 June 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

EDIT: Re-watching the Stannis scene...man, I just realized that they hit the Richard the III end HARD. Like I thought it seemed like it at first, but upon a re-watch it's glaringly Richard III's death, minus calling out for his horse. I wonder if that's a GRRM thing, or an HBO thing. Either way, well played.

Suspect it's a GRRM thing amped up by D&B to be glaringly clear to those who know Shakespeare. There was quite a bit of that in this episode with the Cesar-ification of Jon and the double-duty of Stannis as Richard III/Macbeth.

[polishgenius]

It was an alright episode. There were some great moments but so much happened that there was no plotline whatsoever running throughout the episode, it was essentially a collection of vignettes and short stories, and it suffered the same flaw the books did, of ending on a row of cliffhangers, so none of those vignettes gave any finale-satisfaction for the end of the season.


Also, Cersei's walk of shame- it did not need to be five fucking minutes long. I dislike Cersei as much as the next person but seeing that was simultaneously uncomfortable and boring.





And no mention or buildup of Warging to save Jon. Well done guys, well done.


Good bits- Arya, as per. The 'battle' of Winterfell (though Brienne and Pod turning away from the window seconds too soon just before it was a bit silly). I enjoyed the little argument in Meereen's throne room, and I'm certain only one of those two is coming back alive.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 15 June 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

It was an alright episode. There were some great moments but so much happened that there was no plotline whatsoever running throughout the episode, it was essentially a collection of vignettes and short stories, and it suffered the same flaw the books did, of ending on a row of cliffhangers, so none of those vignettes gave any finale-satisfaction for the end of the season.

Agreed.

polishgenius, on 15 June 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Also, Cersei's walk of shame- it did not need to be five fucking minutes long. I dislike Cersei as much as the next person but seeing that was simultaneously uncomfortable and boring.

You know what, under normal circumstances I might agree...but to psychologically damage someone as cold and completely uncaring as Cersei...having it be that long makes sense. We need to see her break as a character. Lena did a great job, for about half that walk Cersei is handling it fine, unresponsive face and though she might be raging inside...outwardly nada....but on the second half of the walk you can visually see her breaking. No dialogue from her about it, or inner monologue...but just in facial expressions. Hard as hell to watch, but I think the length added to what was being portrayed.

polishgenius, on 15 June 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

And no mention or buildup of Warging to save Jon. Well done guys, well done.

Unless that's not what saves him at all. I'm starting to think that if Jon comes back it will be with a one-two combo punch for storylines: He will be burnt (as per Watch procedure so he doesn't come back as an other) and be reborn in the fire, which will confirm R+L=J and allow him to go on in the show/story...plus Kit cut his hair, so if this happens a freshly shorn Kit is plausible.

polishgenius, on 15 June 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

(though Brienne and Pod turning away from the window seconds too soon just before it was a bit silly).

Yeah, that was one of the moments where I was like "Oh, come on!" I don't mind that she left that watch to take out Stannis finally...but it didn't have to be so telegraphed and trite seeming.

[Terez]

I've seen a few people say they thought the Cersei walk was too long. I was actually worried it wouldn't be long enough. That's part of the torture for her - the distance from Baelor's Sept to the Red Keep. A shorter scene can't convey how difficult it was for her.

If they didn't burn Jon, he wouldn't come back as an Other. Just a wight. Only live ones can be converted to Others, apparently.

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 15 June 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Also, Cersei's walk of shame- it did not need to be five fucking minutes long. I dislike Cersei as much as the next person but seeing that was simultaneously uncomfortable and boring.

There is a need for certain story arcs to have time/build-up invested in to have a truly nice pay-off. This was one of them.

As QT mentions, the psychological breaking of Cersei is something that doesn't come easy. She hasn't broken despite the tough stuff she's faced before. It took a miles long walk, naked, facing constant abuse from people and the inability of her family/skills to completely protect her from this.

There's also the overt showing of how truly bad this religious-inspired frenzy is building up to be. The walk takes every baser impulse from the common people of King's Landing, fires it up and turns it square at a quasi-defenseless noble woman and by extension, the entire ruling class. There's also the doubtfulness of the ability of the church to control any of this beyond a certain point.

Revolution is likely to be a theme in the later stages of the Game of Thrones, just like it was in Easteros with Danerys.

What didn't need building up was Arya's assassin incompetence in the previous episode. That meaningful look at the door is even dumber now that there was no sneaking in the door as Arya, just Faceless Man magic stuff. This... was probably the dumbest part of the show this season.

[worry]

Mostly agree with you, QT, but gonna differ on Drogon (he was cute!), and Myranda scene was goofy UNTIL the fall, which waaaay outclassed the usual slomo-flailing-and-shrinking-into-greenscreen falls you see all the time.

[polishgenius]

amphibian, on 15 June 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

There is a need for certain story arcs to have time/build-up invested in to have a truly nice pay-off. This was one of them.

As QT mentions, the psychological breaking of Cersei is something that doesn't come easy. She hasn't broken despite the tough stuff she's faced before. It took a miles long walk, naked, facing constant abuse from people and the inability of her family/skills to completely protect her from this.

There's also the overt showing of how truly bad this religious-inspired frenzy is building up to be. The walk takes every baser impulse from the common people of King's Landing, fires it up and turns it square at a quasi-defenseless noble woman and by extension, the entire ruling class. There's also the doubtfulness of the ability of the church to control any of this beyond a certain point.

I'm not saying that the scene didn't need to exist, or that it didn't need to have some length.

Just that it was too long. I reckon they could have achieved the same effect if they'd cut out almost all of the wider and crowd shots and just kept to close ups of her increasingly distressed face as the crowd grows steadily louder around her. Take off a good couple of minutes.

[Traveller]

I was just wondering why they went to the trouble of putting Sansa into Winterfell, just to have her jump out of it at the end. I was expecting more of a 'bring them down from within' plan as Littlefingers pawn. I thought in the book,the escape into the snow is a desperate attempt to reach Stannis - so keeping it in the plot after they have seen the army defeated doesn't make much sense.

I liked most of the ep, although, seriously, if Jon is really, really, totally and permanently dead - then that was a pretty crappy scene in which to go out. Not what went down, but the total lack of atmosphere.

[Gorefest]

Terez, on 15 June 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

I don't have a problem with it. It's kind of a unique scene in the show, with a death being a true delivery of justice, and the condemned meeting his justice with his last shred of honor. I never thought it was ambiguous; we see her sword swinging toward his head. With Ned Stark, we saw birds flying.

Not ambiguous? Until it was said above that he was really dead, I honestly thought they cut away because Brienne changes her mind. It's the key words 'Do your duty' that Stannis mumbles right before Brienne kills him. I thought it would be a similar trigger to her reply to Lady Stoneheart, i.e. she swore to protect the Stark girls and when Stannis says this she decides that her personal quest for vengeance is less important than getting his help in freeing Sansa. But clearly that is now a dead end.

Guess Stannis didn't write the pink letter either then. Although of course there is no pink letter in the series.

[Gorefest]

Traveller, on 15 June 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

I was just wondering why they went to the trouble of putting Sansa into Winterfell, just to have her jump out of it at the end. I was expecting more of a 'bring them down from within' plan as Littlefingers pawn. I thought in the book,the escape into the snow is a desperate attempt to reach Stannis - so keeping it in the plot after they have seen the army defeated doesn't make much sense.

In the books there never really was a 'bringing down from within' plot, unless you class the potential Mance Rayder actions after Theon's escape as that. In the books that jump scene is more about Theon refinding himself and rescuing Jayne Pool from the clutches of Ramsay, so in that respect the series holds up to the story quite well. But because it suddenly is Sansa in the JP role, you expected more from her POV.

[Traveller]

I know there's no such plot in the books, which is why it seems at odds to me that they built up Sansa's placement in Winterfell on tv - the 'choice' to go there of her free will, knowing she what she would sacrifice to get into her family seat; also the possibility of revenge against the Boltons. The tv version has really pushed this - what I'm saying is that to then use the Jeyne/Theon escape from the book renders all that pointless. Tv Sansa has done all that for nothing if she runs with Theon.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 16 June 2015 - 11:56 AM