[Khellendros]

polishgenius, on 29 June 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

Baco Xtath, on 29 June 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

I'm now officially rooting against the Dutch. That dive for the winning penalty kick was such bullshit.

He didn't need to exaggerate like he did, but in fairness it was a blatant foul.

I don't like it because there were several actual dives (that the ref didn't call, due credit), but Marquez definitely caught him.

Yeah, I agree with this, I think it was a genuine foul and a penalty. Robben DOES dive (and indeed did earlier in the match), but in this case he would probably say if he didn't exaggerate would the ref have given it at all? In the first half Robben should definitely have had a penalty after being caught by TWO defenders, but got nothing.

[Morgoth]

Yeah, Robben fell too easy that last time but he was snubbed of one, if not two penalties previously.

[polishgenius]

I don't think calling back to potential previous penalties and talking about evening the scores is particularly helpful. Mexico could have had one in the first half too for the kick to the head, after all.

[Morgoth]

As could the Netherlands for that matter.

Robben should have gotten a penalty for that two man take down though, I don't think there's much doubt as to that. There was a second incident where there was not such an obvious penalty, though I think that too was a foul. The situation in which he did receive a penalty was also an actual foul, but this time he exaggerated his fall and the referee took notice.

[Khellendros]

polishgenius, on 29 June 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

I don't think calling back to potential previous penalties and talking about evening the scores is particularly helpful.

And I don't think that's what's being said either. Just that he exaggerated what was a foul anyway possibly because he didn't get another which he should have earlier. Or he's just prone to exaggeration But in either case, it still looked like a foul to me, even if it wasn't a strong challenge.


Edit: Sad, though, that that was Rafael Marquez's last act in his Mexico career, after captaining them in what, three, four World Cups?

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 29 June 2014 - 08:57 PM

[Baco Xtath]

Maybe it was a legit foul but in the slow mo replay, the guy touches his foot and he reacts like he got shot by a bazooka in the back. I'm tired of defending soccer/futball here in the U.S. and watching the acting contest that's almost every fucking game. I love soccer. It's about the only sport I remotely care about. But I fucking hate, let me reiterate, I fucking hate diving.

[HoosierDaddy]

Heartbreak Costa Rica.

[Khellendros]

HoosierDaddy, on 29 June 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Heartbreak Costa Rica.

You could just see it coming, though.

[Binder of Demons]

I know I'm hopelessly biased against Robben, but I don't think the penalty at the end was a foul. I thought Marquez got his foot down on the ground and there wasn't enough contact to go down (plus he'd lost the ball). Marquez was foolish for putting the boot that close anyway.

I will concede he should have had a penalty earlier when the 2 mexican defenders both caught him.

This incident aside, it's terribly frustrating watching modern players dive and cheat with such regularity. It's hard enough for refs and linesmen with the speed of the modern game, when you have players cheating, faking injuries and displaying minimal sportsmanship. And sadly, it does have a trickle down effect, and you see kids trying the same crap. Sad times.

I really wish they would severely punish players retro-actively for diving and cheating , as it's bad for the game so long as you pretend it doesn't matter. (I will clarify though, tonight's penalty was touch and go, i don't think it was one, others do, so i wouldn't do Robben for that. But the 2 times he threw himself to the floor with no one near him in the first half should be punished).

[Gothos]

kinda qualifies, yes?

This post has been edited by Gothos: 29 June 2014 - 10:11 PM

[Khellendros]

Binder of Demons, on 29 June 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

I know I'm hopelessly biased against Robben, but I don't think the penalty at the end was a foul. I thought Marquez got his foot down on the ground and there wasn't enough contact to go down (plus he'd lost the ball). Marquez was foolish for putting the boot that close anyway.

I will concede he should have had a penalty earlier when the 2 mexican defenders both caught him.

This incident aside, it's terribly frustrating watching modern players dive and cheat with such regularity. It's hard enough for refs and linesmen with the speed of the modern game, when you have players cheating, faking injuries and displaying minimal sportsmanship. And sadly, it does have a trickle down effect, and you see kids trying the same crap. Sad times.

I really wish they would severely punish players retro-actively for diving and cheating , as it's bad for the game so long as you pretend it doesn't matter. (I will clarify though, tonight's penalty was touch and go, i don't think it was one, others do, so i wouldn't do Robben for that. But the 2 times he threw himself to the floor with no one near him in the first half should be punished).

You should have a read of this article.

http://www.theguardi...do-mazzucchelli

It's a Uruguayan professor of literature defending Suarez's actions. A lot of it is head-shakingly horrendous (he basically alludes to an English imperialist conspiracy which used its evil powers to get Suarez kicked out - that would be the same English press and players who voted him Football Writers' Player of the Year and Players' Player of the Year), but he also talks about how Mediterranean/Latin players have always considered cheating, or trying to trick the ref, as an actual part of the game, and not something to be frowned upon. Perhaps it is, and it's just one of those cultural things that I, as a Northern European, can't get my head around.

Of course, Robben, as a Dutch player, isn't excused by this

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 29 June 2014 - 10:45 PM

[Khellendros]

Now that was how to take penalties. Hope you were watching Brazil and Chile. Congrats to Costa Rica, but I have to say that, somehow, Greece thoroughly endeared themselves to me this World Cup.

[Binder of Demons]

There are definitely different attitudes around the world as to what constitutes trying to gain an advantage, and what is cheating. And that holds true for some other behaviours as well, such as spitting and biting.

We've always enjoyed a physical style of play here in Ireland, and some of that stems from he fact that our national sports (Hurling and Football) are very physical. So you'd basically get laughed at for diving when I was young, and shamed by your own teammates for having done it. But now you'd see it on soccer pitches around the country, as well as in Hurling and Football. Sad really.

Biting I've never come across personally on a pitch, but you'd get very little sympathy from teammates, officials or opponents if you did it.

Spitting would be likely to lead to a riot. And you'd be very lucky if your teammates backed you up for having done it. Prpeare yourself for an asskicking if you do it. It is seriously frowned upon here. And yet, they don't seem as incensed by this in other parts of the world. Weird.

I love a good physical match, but apart from seeing people deliberately trying to injure opponents, very little annoys me more than people trying to cheat to gain an advantage

[amphibian]

The Uruguayan professor starts from his conclusion: that Suarez is awesome at playing soccer for his country and thus blameless. Everything else flows downhill from there.

It's like Fox News - they have show hosts who are paid to say that everything bad is Obama's fault, so 90% of the show is going to be figuring out how to link [bad thing] to Obama.

[Tapper]

Tisteon Simeonus, on 26 June 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Hmm let's take this off the field. He assaulted someone quite badly (possibly a section 47 assault in this country but I always get confused about the different versions of assault we have here so not 100% on that). The point is this: he freaking assaulted someone and if he did that off field with that much evidence (unlikely I know but bear with me) he would probably be looking at jail time especially with his previous (same M.O. even) then he wouldn't be able to play for anyone anyway!

So yeah because he did it on a field he only gets a ban from the game (and half the ban he's not playing for his club anyway). I think he is lucky and actually he has kind of got a pretty light sentence.

But how much jail time would you face for a third bar fight in a row, in which neither participant is hospital bound? Probably not four months. One might also argue that the impact on the bitten player is negligible compared to, say, an elbow to the nose or a bad tackle. If I'd have to choose between being bitten in the shoulder or taking a kick on my ankle, I'd choose the bite because it won't end my career or even my involvement in the match.

Anyway, the question will be if the judgment as it is will stand upon appeal.

Suarez' representatives might claim that it will go against the right of an employee to be excluded from their occupation, the club might say the player wasn't representing them, the argument might be used that this was the first time he actually did something in a FIFA-controlled competition so precedences in national competitions ought to be ignored (in the Ivanovich bite incident, did the EPL take the Dutch case into account?).

If a court case with postponed punishment will ensue, that might just be enough to make him playable. Especially if it would postpone his sentence until the end of the season and into the summer 2015 period.

It wouldn't be the first time an extremely far-going judgment was made that couldn't stand in the end - see the Barcelona case, where a transfer ban of a full year was lifted, at the very least temporarily. Barcelona is now merrily spending like there's no tomorrow (Halelovich, Rakitic, Ter Stegen, Bravo, probably a stand-out central defender).

So I guess that everyone interested in Suarez is looking into the possibilities here, and if the prospects are good, it won't make a single difference for his market value or transfer options, or even Liverpool's willingness to keep or sell him.

As for morals in sport... this case hardly stands alone. In the cynical world of the NFL, prospects walk around with rape charges to their name and it doesn't make a difference, court cases for lesser offenses are postponed until after the season (Marshawn Lynch's, for example). In cycling and baseball, sporters with multiple dope bans are still signed and in competition.

I had wished that FIFA had banned him for the entire tournament, then spent more time to compile a case and a suitable penalty. Now, it reeks of sensationalism, faked outrage (by the FIFA, the player, the team's coach and the club) and potentially, weakening the FIFA's disciplinary muscle if an appeal manages to reduce the punishment by a significant margin.

[Macros]

The video at the end
My link

Robben, gods how I dislike the bastard

[Khellendros]

During the France-Nigeria game, I saw some Nigerian fans in the crowd who'd painted their faces white. Whiteface?


In other news, another very entertaining match. France seemed to find another gear when Griezzmann came on, but Nigeria were very unlucky to have that goal disallowed.

[polishgenius]

He was offside. It was inches, just his foot, but he was off. Fair call.

Nigeria would really do well learning to turn attacks into proper chances. Their final ball is dreadful and their finishing not much better.

[Binder of Demons]

That tackle from the french player Matuidi was a disgrace. A real ankle breaker. And he got away with several other late challenges and petty fouls. I think he must have had incriminating photos on the officials.

Feel sorry for the Nigerian keeper to make such a simple error for the critical goal. The Yobo own goal was a freak thing and he couldn't do much about it once the keeper and player both left it.

The Germany-Algeria game is really entertaining. Algeria are giving Germany a horrible time, and yet the Algerian goalie has made a couple of outstanding saves. Could go either way this one.

[Mentalist]

Missed all the 1/16 games so far, since I was away camping.

Feel terrible about Chile being out.

Expected Coulumbia to beat Suarez-less Uruguay

Cheered for the Dutch, but will need to watch that game to see how legit was the penalty at the end

I hate how Greece place soccer. And I happened to to be in town with signal during those penalties, so refreshed like crazy for updates. Very happy for Costa Rica

Expected France to take Nigeria.

Surprised Algeria gave Germany such a tough time, was happy they won.

On the discussion re: latin/mediterranean tams and the diving culture--that is precisely why I dislike them, and why I felt that Spain being dethroned is a good thing. Still hoping for a Netherlands-Germany final.