[Pran Chole]

Dammit, fuck, I'm tying my mind in knots.

If they can use multiple things, then they could use the 2day killing thing, but possess someone too. Then they can both vote. It gives town a 50-50, but if we miss then they can complete their kill the next night.

Or am I totally fucking confused?

[Karatallid]

Korbas, on 16 May 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Kara, you keep implying that the SK doesn't have the possession because you have it.

If you want me to trust a single word that you say convince me that it was you who possessed me. I've already said up thread that Okaros was making a mistake in assuming that the SK had possession.

Go and re-read my posts. Some of my wording is very specific.

1. If I have Possession, nothing can prove that I Possessed you because that would get me modkilled.
2. At the end of the day, what I am suggesting on-thread is based purely on facts. Logic. Reason. There is no "trust" required in this - just a bit of maths in combination with the mechanics. My whole argument is that IF the SK were to have Possession, it is not helpful to them ANYWAY.

Your WHOLE reason for voting me, is that you think I have Possession, and therefore Possessed you the other day, right? If that isn't because Possessing you would imply I was the SK, what on earth does it warrant a vote for? Or, why are you then voting for me?

[Karatallid]

Pran Chole, on 16 May 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Dammit, fuck, I'm tying my mind in knots.

If they can use multiple things, then they could use the 2day killing thing, but possess someone too. Then they can both vote. It gives town a 50-50, but if we miss then they can complete their kill the next night.

Or am I totally fucking confused?

A little.

If they can use two things at once (we assume they can, because WCS), they STILL could NOT use Possession tonight, as it would be blocked by Anti-Tank's cooldown.

[Karatallid]

Anyway, I have to step AFK for a bit.

[Korbas]

Karatallid, on 16 May 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

<snip>

1. If I have Possession, nothing can prove that I Possessed you because that would get me modkilled.
<snip>

You can't say what is in your role PM. You can say what was in my role PM.

[Korbas]

Ok, you want logic straight up.

Kara has Possession. If he didn't have it he could say that he didn't have it.

Possession does not prove SK one way or the other.

If a person dies with a contract, the contract becomes expired.

Therefore, if we lynch Kara the worst that happens is we take Possession out of the game.

Best case of course is that he is the SK.

[Karatallid]

Korbas, on 16 May 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 16 May 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

<snip>

1. If I have Possession, nothing can prove that I Possessed you because that would get me modkilled.
<snip>

You can't say what is in your role PM. You can say what was in my role PM.

Again, what part of COULD NOT GET ONLINE FOR EVER do you not understand?!

[Karatallid]

Korbas, on 16 May 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Ok, you want logic straight up.

Kara has Possession. If he didn't have it he could say that he didn't have it.

Possession does not prove SK one way or the other.

If a person dies with a contract, the contract becomes expired.

Therefore, if we lynch Kara the worst that happens is we take Possession out of the game.

Best case of course is that he is the SK.

Actually, WCS is you lose the game.

Whereas, if you DON'T lynch - game win, guaranteed.

What part of that is not logical? If I were the SK, and let's face it, I don't have Spectral Contract Manipulation, (oooh, I said it!) then why would present a scenario in which I could not win?

Why are you so dead set on lynching me? What logic are using? "We can take Possession out of the game" is NOT something you risk losing the game for, in the face of a win-button strategy.

The only people we should be lynching are people we think are the SK - ergo, why do you think I am the SK? Given you yourself have drawn the conclusion that, even if I have Possession, that does not affect the chances of me being the SK? Why are you trying to take the risk? Why are you doing what whoever in Town took the SCM ability did, when we've all agreed that it's stupid to throw away a guaranteed Town win?

You have no reason to believe me. Sure. But if you can't fault the logic, then why do you not want to try it? There is almost zero risk of things going wrong *tonight* (technically, if I'm right, there is zero risk of things going wrong EVER). What's the rush?

[Korbas]

Karatallid, on 16 May 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Korbas, on 16 May 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Kara, you keep implying that the SK doesn't have the possession because you have it.

If you want me to trust a single word that you say convince me that it was you who possessed me. I've already said up thread that Okaros was making a mistake in assuming that the SK had possession.

Go and re-read my posts. Some of my wording is very specific.

1. If I have Possession, nothing can prove that I Possessed you because that would get me modkilled.
2. At the end of the day, what I am suggesting on-thread is based purely on facts. Logic. Reason. There is no "trust" required in this - just a bit of maths in combination with the mechanics. My whole argument is that IF the SK were to have Possession, it is not helpful to them ANYWAY.

Your WHOLE reason for voting me, is that you think I have Possession, and therefore Possessed you the other day, right? If that isn't because Possessing you would imply I was the SK, what on earth does it warrant a vote for? Or, why are you then voting for me?

I was possessed. I would like to know whether the person who possessed me is town, scum, or sk. While they possessed me they did nothing to identify themselves. Since they could read my PMs they KNEW that I was town and not the SK. This person could CI me and themselves by convincing me who they were and their status. The fact that this person chose to not even attempt to do so while they possessed me is, to me, rather damning. My conclusion is that the person who possessed me was not innocent. Therefore I registered Inert. That left my possessor in an awkward situation. Posting as me would have to be in pictures.



Then there is this:

Karatallid, on 14 May 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

<snip>

And what exactly is it we're looking for? Someone who has, in the dearth of posting so far, changed their behaviour?

SK is as good as a late-game FM in terms of being hard to spot. We're back to square one in a lot of respects. You voted to lynch someone who was "CI". You voted without being 100% up to date on the thread. You voted on pretty flimsy reasoning and then...what. You expect everyone to ignore that?

Of course people aren't voting straight away. We want to spend time finding shit out, rather than rushing through what is a perverted version of day one, from a scum-hunting perspective. But you going all emo on-thread to complain about meta reasoning (which afaik, no-one brought up) is not a good response. It's a response that scum make when they're caught out and don't want to lose. You are acting like you're already lynched instead of playing the game. You are complaining about other people not working the thread? Where are YOUR cases, then? Don't just whine, like Korv did, that you got caught in a bad situation. Fucking do something about it. "Be the change you wish to see" or whatever.

So yeah. Moan all you like about meta and whatnot. You voted poorly. That's pretty damning. But you aren't doing yourself or anyone else any favours by doing that. In fact, you're putting nails into your own coffin.

Before you "lost access to the site" you appear to be pointing at the one person who wasn't posting. Korbas.

• The person who possessed me knows I'm inno and not the SK
• that person therefore has no reason not to divulge the contents of my PMs if they were town. None at all.

Kara, I'm actually bending over backwards here to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was possessed. If it was not by you, then you can say so. If you can't say so for fear of modkill, then you do have possession. Here's the benefit part: you claim loss of access. Ok. So I will give you a second opportunity to do what my possessor chose not to do: divulge the contents of my role PM and my response to it. In and of itself the info is possibly still important.

In short:

My possessor, in my opinion, acted scummy.
I think Kara has possession.
Kara refuses to even attempt to make me believe he's inno.


Kara may not be the SK. But he has done nothing to try to prove that he's not the Possession contractor. In my opinion the Possession contractor acted in a very un-town way.

And seriously?? He wants us to go no lynch. Two days in a row.

Kara wants me to just trust him. But he has done nothing to indicate to me that he is trustworthy.

So yeah, my vote stays where it is for now.

[Karatallid]

Korbas, on 16 May 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 16 May 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Korbas, on 16 May 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Kara, you keep implying that the SK doesn't have the possession because you have it.

If you want me to trust a single word that you say convince me that it was you who possessed me. I've already said up thread that Okaros was making a mistake in assuming that the SK had possession.

Go and re-read my posts. Some of my wording is very specific.

1. If I have Possession, nothing can prove that I Possessed you because that would get me modkilled.
2. At the end of the day, what I am suggesting on-thread is based purely on facts. Logic. Reason. There is no "trust" required in this - just a bit of maths in combination with the mechanics. My whole argument is that IF the SK were to have Possession, it is not helpful to them ANYWAY.

Your WHOLE reason for voting me, is that you think I have Possession, and therefore Possessed you the other day, right? If that isn't because Possessing you would imply I was the SK, what on earth does it warrant a vote for? Or, why are you then voting for me?

I was possessed. I would like to know whether the person who possessed me is town, scum, or sk. While they possessed me they did nothing to identify themselves. Since they could read my PMs they KNEW that I was town and not the SK. This person could CI me and themselves by convincing me who they were and their status. The fact that this person chose to not even attempt to do so while they possessed me is, to me, rather damning. My conclusion is that the person who possessed me was not innocent. Therefore I registered Inert. That left my possessor in an awkward situation. Posting as me would have to be in pictures.

You do realise, that you registered Inert BEFORE anyone had fucking talked to you, because of timezones, right?

And how exactly does one PROVE they are not the SK? Even in PM, there is almost nothing one can say if one does not agree to at least a bit of friendly cooperation.

Quote

Then there is this:

Karatallid, on 14 May 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

<snip>

And what exactly is it we're looking for? Someone who has, in the dearth of posting so far, changed their behaviour?

SK is as good as a late-game FM in terms of being hard to spot. We're back to square one in a lot of respects. You voted to lynch someone who was "CI". You voted without being 100% up to date on the thread. You voted on pretty flimsy reasoning and then...what. You expect everyone to ignore that?

Of course people aren't voting straight away. We want to spend time finding shit out, rather than rushing through what is a perverted version of day one, from a scum-hunting perspective. But you going all emo on-thread to complain about meta reasoning (which afaik, no-one brought up) is not a good response. It's a response that scum make when they're caught out and don't want to lose. You are acting like you're already lynched instead of playing the game. You are complaining about other people not working the thread? Where are YOUR cases, then? Don't just whine, like Korv did, that you got caught in a bad situation. Fucking do something about it. "Be the change you wish to see" or whatever.

So yeah. Moan all you like about meta and whatnot. You voted poorly. That's pretty damning. But you aren't doing yourself or anyone else any favours by doing that. In fact, you're putting nails into your own coffin.

Before you "lost access to the site" you appear to be pointing at the one person who wasn't posting. Korbas.

Talking about yourself in third person?

And what pointing? Not posting to the point of modkill is not fucking SK behaviour. My reply at that time was sarcasm. As in "it is literally the first day where the SK is in play - and almost no-one has posted - how the fuck are we supposed to find them?". As in (because I believe I was talking to Ryll at the time) "What the fuck are we supposed to be looking for when there hasn't even been a chance for a change of behaviour to be shown".

I mean, fuck. What on earth does that have to do with you?

Quote

• The person who possessed me knows I'm inno and not the SK
• that person therefore has no reason not to divulge the contents of my PMs if they were town. None at all.

Kara, I'm actually bending over backwards here to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was possessed. If it was not by you, then you can say so. If you can't say so for fear of modkill, then you do have possession. Here's the benefit part: you claim loss of access. Ok. So I will give you a second opportunity to do what my possessor chose not to do: divulge the contents of my role PM and my response to it. In and of itself the info is possibly still important.

If you recall, you had Inert. So there was not going to be any divulging of role PMs on thread.

I'm also not sure why you're being so obtuse. I've CI'd you to the best of my ability - remember, lost access to the site = cannot read PMs EITHER.

You are CI. Yes, my CF will prove that. However, in the absence of it, why would you lynch someone who can't - for RL reasons - provide a copy of your role PM in more specific terms? Read first post. Started inno. Read last posts, not SK. Done. Proceed to converse in other PM thread. What the fuck is wrong with that?

Again, you are ignoring my earlier posts which prove to you what you want to know about whether or not I was your Possessor. You just need to do a comparison, the wording is, again, very specific.

Quote

In short:

My possessor, in my opinion, acted scummy.
I think Kara has possession.
Kara refuses to even attempt to make me believe he's inno.

Other than handing Town the game on a plate? Oh, sure. ON WHAT BASIS DO I NOT LOOK INNO TO YOU RIGHT NOW?!

Quote

Kara may not be the SK. But he has done nothing to try to prove that he's not the Possession contractor. In my opinion the Possession contractor acted in a very un-town way.

And seriously?? He wants us to go no lynch. Two days in a row.

Kara wants me to just trust him. But he has done nothing to indicate to me that he is trustworthy.

So yeah, my vote stays where it is for now.

Yes. No lynch. With by tomorrow at least TWO CIs on thread.

And a guaranteed loss to the SK by Remuneration-induced problems within...let's see...they got Consume last night, presumably, nothing tonight, let's assume AT the next night with Consume (unless they are guarded, then they lose), so two more nights after that they either lose or get lynched the day before due to RIO making them vote.



Seriously. Are you SURE you aren't the SK? You're taking that last sentence there I wrote above, and saying with absolutely no reason that I can see, that you don't want to do that? Why? Because you "can't trust me"? What part of that has to do with TRUST?! It's logic. If you can't argue against the logic, then what are you concerned about?

I'm not asking for us to vote night right now. Just let day time out. (Of course, a remove vote to prevent (foolish, but possible) surprise/accidental hammering would be nice.)

It's not hard. Tomorrow, if Possession has been used, you get your proof that it is in the hands of Town, no?
And we get another CI (or a possible SK - but again, no need to take the then-proven-Town-by-use-of-a-Contract Possession user's word on it - we can just leave that in case the SK can somehow avoid the AT restriction, and carry on).

I mean seriously. WHAT are you objecting to, here?

[Ryllandaras]

I should precede what I'm about to say with the proviso that I haven't had any coffee yet.

But Kara's plan seems to make sense to me.

[Karatallid]

Well, I think I've said my piece for the day. As far as I'm concerned, this plan could not be clearer, nor could it be be more robust.

Obviously, I will not be voting today in accordance with my plan and because I think trying to find the SK purely through the thread is a tall order on the second day of its existence.

If someone pokes a giant hole in my strategy based on the mechanics, more power to them. I only hope that if I do get lynched, you will all take my CF and Korbas' presumed CI-ness from it going forward as a sign of what is the best route to take from that point forward.


Just to make sure there is no confusion/any stray votes out there:

Remove Vote

[Korbas]

Path-Shaper, on 29 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Current Contract List

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: Today, 09:43 AM

OV-724 | Hallucination
Registered

PJ-531 | Spatial Teleportation
Registered

UI-678 | Anti-tank Rifle Materialization
Registered
The contractor can spontaneously produce a Degtyarov PTRD Anti-Tank Rifle with a single shell already chambered.
Ability: The player gains a single-use Vig. The Vig can be used on any night, and is depleted whether it succeeds or not. The single-use is replenished each time this contract is relinquished and re-registered, even if by the same player.
Renumeration: Constructing and Releasing Origami Lanterns at Night. If the player successfully kills someone with their single-use Vig, they cannot perform any night action the following night.
Relinquish: normal
Fulfillment: Once this contract has been used to successfully kill 3 players (either by the same player or multiple players), it is Fulfilled.


XR-821 | Hormonal Attraction Amplification
Registered


HW-702 | Possession
Registered
The contractor's consciousness can leap into other human bodies and wrest control of them, suppressing the other consciousness within.
Ability: The player may select a target at night and is granted control of the target's body (alt). The target player is informed that they may not post or vote on-thread - only the possessor may do so. Both the possessor and possessee may reply to PMs.
Renumeration: The player must return to their original body after they have possessed someone for a day.
Relinquish: The player must be in their original body (alt) to relinquish the contract.
Fulfillment: If the player's original body is killed while they are possessing another player, the contract becomes fulfilled but they lose the mental dominance that suppresses the possessed consciousness. Both the possessor and possessee may now post in-thread and vote freely. The player may now jump directly from one possessed body to a new target player each night.



VM-460 | Spectral Contract Manipulation
Registered
A mysterious contract, the mechanisms of which are unfathomable.
Ability:
--Tyranny: The contractor immediately becomes capable of holding two more contracts in addition to this one.
--Consume: Each night, you may choose another player - if they die you learn what contract they hold (if any) and you may substitute it for one of yours (but not this one).
Renumeration: Drinking the Blood of Children. You become an independent player, with the victory conditions of eliminating all other players. You will CF and be found as "[S]He who Drinks the Blood of Children". You must successfully target someone with Consume at least once every two nights, or else you will die instead (you do not need to exchange contracts, just succeed in choosing a player that dies).
Relinquish: This contract cannot be relinquished by any means, including by actions of other players.
Fulfillment: none




DM-872 | Rupture Internal Organs
Open

EZ-674 | Gravity Amplification
Open

DP-391 | Information Absorption
Open

XC-677 | Liquid-Induced Cryokinesis
Open

TZ-959 | Pyrokinesis
Open

Renumeration: Singing. The player must use the title of a song in their posts on five seperate occasions each day. Any song titles can be used, so long as they can be found fairly easily on the internet and are not just single ordinary words. There is no capitalization or other formatting necessary, so you can try to hide them in your posts. You must send a PM to Path-Shaper indicating the posts and song titles each day.


ID-362 | Remote Inert Organic Sensing and Disintegration
Open

[Korbas]

Rhyll, what were your song titles? i.e. posts.

[Korbas]

Has there been a recent time update?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 6. 10 hours and 18 minutesremaining.

5 players are alive: Karatallid, Korbas, Okaros, Pran Chole, Ryllandaras

3 votes to lynch. 3 to go to night.

2 votes for Karatallid (Okaros, Korbas)

[Ryllandaras]

Korbas said:

1400253441[/url]' post='1125344']
Rhyll, what were your song titles? i.e. posts.

Nothing to Hide, by Rebel Souljhaz. I thought it was apt.

[Korbas]

Path-Shaper, on 15 May 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

It is Day 6. 29 hours remaining. 11 hours of registration left.

5 players are alive: Karatallid, Korbas, Okaros, Pran Chole, Ryllandaras

3 votes to lynch. 3 votes to go to night.

I think we're at:

Spoiler

It is day 6. 10 hours 20 minutes remaining?? Registration is closed.

5 players are alive: Karatallid, Korbas, Okaros, Pran Chole, Ryllandaras

3 votes to lynch. 3 votes to go to night.

2 votes Karatallid (Korbas, Okaros)

3 players haven't voted: Karatallid, Pran Chole, Ryllandaras

Edit: spoilered because an official post two comments abover

This post has been edited by Korbas: 16 May 2014 - 03:30 PM

[Korbas]

meh. I was close.

[Korbas]

Ryllandaras, on 16 May 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

Korbas, on 16 May 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Rhyll, what were your song titles? i.e. posts.

Nothing to Hide, by Rebel Souljhaz. I thought it was apt.

I meant the posts themselves. A bit of proof that you did indeed have pyro.



5 players. 6 contracts registered.