[Bek Okhan]

Okral Lom, on 28 April 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 28 April 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Okay, review of Galayn.

As has been said several times before, GL posts infrequently but with a lot of content. We've had cases against Ruse and Shadow, consideration of voting trains, lots of relevant and interesting questions. He gives good reasoning for his votes. From my reading I don't particularly find that he has been trying to direct lynches, probably a lot due to the fact that he just isn't on thread often enough to have that much effect on the voting. He's been fairly consistent about his suspicions of Shadow and Denul, but willing to change his vote for the lynch.

Equally as importantly, he discusses potential symp roles, is the first to suggest lynching Korabas, wasn't around following Korabas' reveal, and actually votes Korabas, towards the middle of the train.

So, to summarise, either he is the most townie scum I've ever seen, or he is legitimately town. I'm leaning towards town.

What was your opinion of GL's reaction to my idle speculation about that post of Denul's? Am I imagining it, or was it a bit of a disproportionate response?

It was a bit disproportionate, but we said the same thing about Denul's defence. I think the defensiveness comes from a difference in the interpretation of your post. I think your original post was indicating a problem with Denul, but GL could have read it as you making a connection between GL and Denul, and as just about everyone had been suspicious of Denul up until that point, I could see how that would come off as you being suspicious of both of them for Denul omitting GL from his update and the two of them having no interaction, neither of which GL has any control over.

tl;dr: I don't know, but I can see it from both perspectives

[Okral Lom]

Having had the weekend to mull it over, I think there's a good chance that Shadow is scum. The incoherent flailing seems too desperate at this stage of the game. I would be happy to put a vote down on him.

However, before I do I would still like to hear from Eloth. This is his only post of the current game day, and it's not exactly full of content:

Eloth, on 25 April 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Fuck, I could not get home last night till long past timeout and I am slammed with projects and meetings, even tonight, so I'm going to have a hard time posting.

Reading just the most recent post - Shadow, I am confused what you mean about not missing lynches, I have unfortunately missed being able to vote on a number of occasions - like last night. What are you talking about?

Client call, back later.

At this point in the game we need to know what everyone is thinking - in previous games town have thrown games away by rushing to lynch on the last day because they didn't wait for everyone to chime in, and I'd like to avoid that here. There's plenty of time left, fortunately .

[Bek Okhan]

Indeed! Is there anything else you want to chat about? I'm going to bed in a bit.

[Bek Okhan]

Ah well, in that case I'm heading off to bed.

I'm reluctant to put Shadow at L-1 this early in the game, so I'll leave without a vote, but I will be back in the morning to catch up.

[Shadow]

Bek Okhan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

So, I've re-read Shadow's posts, and they are interesting. He has tended to be fairly absent, just popping in and out with short posts. The exceptions to this trend are this day, and just after Ruse's lynch/Alkend's death, when he wrote the list of people who couldn't have changed their vote. That's fine, it's normal to post more when you have a theory and people are talking about it. What does stand out though, is that Shadow generally has a target and sticks to it, to the extent that he kept bringing up Denul as a possible lynch target. However, over this last day Shadow has voted Eloth, then Okral Lom, then Tiam. He's also pointed fingers at GL. This is a marked departure from his normal play so far, and I think that is what has people suggesting he is trying to distract from someone.

What bothers me most about Shadow's play today is the fact that he is basing everything off lynch trains. At this stage of the game there is so much information out there to back up cases, but Shadow looks at nothing of what has been said at all, his accusations against Okral, Eloth and Galayn have been purely about voting behaviour. And this leads to another problem; he says that consistently being on the longest lynch train (in the case of Okral) is scummy, but he also says that missing lynches (in the case of Galayn and Eloth) is scummy because that could be premeditated. He also doesn't say why being consistently on the longest train is scummy. It is in town's best interests to get lynches, because that is what gives us the most information, and while it's definitely unusual for someone to be consistently on the longest train, I don't think it's particularly scummy. Especially because, if nothing else, it is likely to bring attention to that player, which scum generally tries to avoid.

Finally, Shadow's language over the course of the last day has been increasingly hyperbolic. It's now at the point of "just you wait, I'll be saying I told you so in SH" and "I'm not taking any blame for this town loss", as if the game was already over. His prediction that OL will be the hammer that ends the game is particularly absurd because he is still at L-2.

On the basis of the idea that Shadow is going mental in order to distract from someone else, I had a look back at the last couple of pages. There isn't really anyone that stands out from today, because Denul revealed, and then Shadow wandered in and started throwing shit, so there wasn't a lot of town suspicion that wasn't directed at Shadow. Based on the previous day's vote trains, I thought it possible that he was distracting from Tiam, but his vote for Tiam has put a dent in that theory. So at this stage, if Shadow is a symp, I suspect he is trying to distract from Galayn, because he mentioned Galayn in conjunction with Eloth, but didn't vote for him, and has since left off that line of reasoning altogether. It's a flimsy idea, especially because GL hasn't had a lot of exposure all game, but it's the only explanation I have for Shadow going off the rails.

In any event, I am more than happy to vote for Shadow, but I'm going to leave off voting until closer to timeout, and look at some other people.

First off the only thing that is concrete is CF's and lynch trains all of the other crap that people put on the thread is just that crap to convince other people that they are a townie player. So yeah I ignore most of that crab. Because this is mafia and I expect everyone to lie. The fact that you and the other remaining members of town don't and seem to think that people who constantly vote for trains aren't scummy is stupid. I mean seriously this is going to be the third straight game that scum has won and you know why because town who have basically been the same people haven't learned anything between one game and another. But hey I told you to lynch me to days ago. Since you didn't now you get me as a flailing towny being the only one who is actually trying to find scum and the rest of you who seem to think that doing so is scummy. Hahahaha. Can you fucktards lynch me already?

[Shadow]

Bek Okhan, on 28 April 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Ah well, in that case I'm heading off to bed.

I'm reluctant to put Shadow at L-1 this early in the game, so I'll leave without a vote, but I will be back in the morning to catch up.

Do it I want to see if Okarl is going to hammer me. Come on do it!!!!!! Chicken.... Do it.

[Denul]

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 28 April 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Ah well, in that case I'm heading off to bed.

I'm reluctant to put Shadow at L-1 this early in the game, so I'll leave without a vote, but I will be back in the morning to catch up.

Do it I want to see if Okarl is going to hammer me. Come on do it!!!!!! Chicken.... Do it.

Fine.

Vote Shadow

[Denul]

Shadow's behaviour today has been atrocious. Even if he were town and believed the things he is spouting, he is not doing so in a manner which is at all helpful to town, and IMO is making such a distraction and focus of himself that it is detractive to town. Frustration is all fine and well, but at this point if he is RI he has given up on trying to win the game, which is not something any proper RI would ever do (RIs are, by definition, going to have little information and believe they are right even though others disagree... it goes with the territory). Furthermore, going back to Lock's cases, the erratic behaviour I see from him lines up well with the oddball NK choices.

[Okral Lom]

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

First off the only thing that is concrete is CF's and lynch trains all of the other crap that people put on the thread is just that crap to convince other people that they are a townie player. So yeah I ignore most of that crab. Because this is mafia and I expect everyone to lie. The fact that you and the other remaining members of town don't and seem to think that people who constantly vote for trains aren't scummy is stupid. I mean seriously this is going to be the third straight game that scum has won and you know why because town who have basically been the same people haven't learned anything between one game and another. But hey I told you to lynch me to days ago. Since you didn't now you get me as a flailing towny being the only one who is actually trying to find scum and the rest of you who seem to think that doing so is scummy. Hahahaha. Can you fucktards lynch me already?

Really?!?! I...I just...I can't believe what I'm reading. There are 31 pages of information here and you're just going to throw it all away? Because people might be lying? No shit people are going to lie - and because of that, you can catch them out! Once you include minis there have probably been about 200 games of Mafia played on this board - I'm flabbergasted that anyone could still hold such a backward and blinkered view after all that time.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 6

19 hours left in the day.

7 players are left alive.
4 votes needed to lynch.

Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Shadow, Tiamatha

Votes:

3 votes Shadow: Tiam, Galayn Lord, Denul
1 vote Tiam: Shadow


Players not voting.

Bek Okhan, Eloth, Okral Lom

[Shadow]

Okral Lom, on 28 April 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

First off the only thing that is concrete is CF's and lynch trains all of the other crap that people put on the thread is just that crap to convince other people that they are a townie player. So yeah I ignore most of that crab. Because this is mafia and I expect everyone to lie. The fact that you and the other remaining members of town don't and seem to think that people who constantly vote for trains aren't scummy is stupid. I mean seriously this is going to be the third straight game that scum has won and you know why because town who have basically been the same people haven't learned anything between one game and another. But hey I told you to lynch me to days ago. Since you didn't now you get me as a flailing towny being the only one who is actually trying to find scum and the rest of you who seem to think that doing so is scummy. Hahahaha. Can you fucktards lynch me already?

Really?!?! I...I just...I can't believe what I'm reading. There are 31 pages of information here and you're just going to throw it all away? Because people might be lying? No shit people are going to lie - and because of that, you can catch them out! Once you include minis there have probably been about 200 games of Mafia played on this board - I'm flabbergasted that anyone could still hold such a backward and blinkered view after all that time.

Seeing as though I have played in the majority of them and am going to come up RI what does that tell you about your reasoning.

[Shadow]

Denul, on 28 April 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Shadow's behaviour today has been atrocious. Even if he were town and believed the things he is spouting, he is not doing so in a manner which is at all helpful to town, and IMO is making such a distraction and focus of himself that it is detractive to town. Frustration is all fine and well, but at this point if he is RI he has given up on trying to win the game, which is not something any proper RI would ever do (RIs are, by definition, going to have little information and believe they are right even though others disagree... it goes with the territory). Furthermore, going back to Lock's cases, the erratic behaviour I see from him lines up well with the oddball NK choices.

I fucking told you that 2 game days ago dumbass when I begged for you dumb fucks to lynch me. When I tell you how shit is going to go down don't suddenly be surprised when it goes down exactly as I tell you.

[Shadow]

Shadow, on 23 April 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

I am still crazy busy at work. So yeah I don't care one way or the other. I think that Denul or Tiam are a good lynch. But anyone from the bottom half of my list would remove a question mark. If that is me today I am fine with that. Obviously I won't be voting for myself. But I don't have the time to play or look at things or care so I would probably be a good lynch if for no other reason then removing the question mark. But I am also a pretty easy lynch. So after my lynch you should ask who pushed the lynch on me and why. Who kept saying that I was acting scummy and what not. Anyway that is all I have time for right now. Most likely for the rest of the day as well.

Shadow, on 23 April 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

If you guys are focused on me and not willing to lynch either Tiam or Denul. Then lynch me otherwise scum will continue to use my presence to cloud everything. I doubt that I will be much help to town for the rest of the week. It has started to seriously pile up here at work. So it isn't like removing me will cost town a great town player or anything.

And you assmonkeys lynched Rikkter. Then another day goes by and I go off at the End of the game like I do and hey low and behold town has to lynch me because I am distracting on potentially fucking D day. You don't lynch a distraction on D day you lynch a distraction 2 days earlier when he tells you he is going to be a distraction.

[Shadow]

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

You're reaching and you know it Denul, wether its from frustration over my suspicion of you or genuine concern someone else will agree with me, I don't know, but am (unsuprisingly) leaning toward the latter. I've even quoted the post where you were the one who suggested the warlord symps, I'm at a loss for what else you want from me here beside a lynch that isn't shadow or rikkter (you obviously don't want to lynch yourself)

Tiam, I don't know how to explain it better than I already have. You took my quote that got to 4, changed the conditions and counted yourself up to 4, but with the changed conditions it made absolutely no sense to do so. The only way I can see such a mental slip is if you were scum dividing your on-thread fake townie presence with your scum presence. Maybe you should go back and re-read what I wrote and try to think your way through it because it's absolutely inconceivable you could not understand my point when I highlighted it and used paragraph spacing and everything.

Of course you didn't realy misunderstand, you're just playing dumb to try and seem less suspicious.

How is it that Tiam has been dropping stupid shit like this all game and you have been lapping it up and not lynching him for it. Seriously what is wrong with you.

[Okral Lom]

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 28 April 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Really?!?! I...I just...I can't believe what I'm reading. There are 31 pages of information here and you're just going to throw it all away? Because people might be lying? No shit people are going to lie - and because of that, you can catch them out! Once you include minis there have probably been about 200 games of Mafia played on this board - I'm flabbergasted that anyone could still hold such a backward and blinkered view after all that time.

Seeing as though I have played in the majority of them and am going to come up RI what does that tell you about your reasoning.

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

And you assmonkeys lynched Rikkter. Then another day goes by and I go off at the End of the game like I do and hey low and behold town has to lynch me because I am distracting on potentially fucking D day. You don't lynch a distraction on D day you lynch a distraction 2 days earlier when he tells you he is going to be a distraction.

Or you could, you know, NOT BE A DISTRACTION! Several players have cited your play today as being what convinced them to vote for you (Bek Okhan, Tiamatha, Denul), not your play from two days ago. If you had been helpful; if you had presented a credible alternative, stated your case and stuck with it, then maybe I might have been convinced that you were playing in town's best interests. You say you've played in many of those 200 games, so you should know how to do that by now. It's Day 6 - at this point there should be more to cases than the pitiful, flimsy reasoning you've laid out today. The bottom line is that if you were town, you would do a better job of it. And if you are indeed town, it is your inability to pose a reasonable defence that is to blame, not us.

[Shadow]

Okral Lom, on 28 April 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 28 April 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Really?!?! I...I just...I can't believe what I'm reading. There are 31 pages of information here and you're just going to throw it all away? Because people might be lying? No shit people are going to lie - and because of that, you can catch them out! Once you include minis there have probably been about 200 games of Mafia played on this board - I'm flabbergasted that anyone could still hold such a backward and blinkered view after all that time.

Seeing as though I have played in the majority of them and am going to come up RI what does that tell you about your reasoning.

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

And you assmonkeys lynched Rikkter. Then another day goes by and I go off at the End of the game like I do and hey low and behold town has to lynch me because I am distracting on potentially fucking D day. You don't lynch a distraction on D day you lynch a distraction 2 days earlier when he tells you he is going to be a distraction.

Or you could, you know, NOT BE A DISTRACTION! Several players have cited your play today as being what convinced them to vote for you (Bek Okhan, Tiamatha, Denul), not your play from two days ago. If you had been helpful; if you had presented a credible alternative, stated your case and stuck with it, then maybe I might have been convinced that you were playing in town's best interests. You say you've played in many of those 200 games, so you should know how to do that by now. It's Day 6 - at this point there should be more to cases than the pitiful, flimsy reasoning you've laid out today. The bottom line is that if you were town, you would do a better job of it. And if you are indeed town, it is your inability to pose a reasonable defence that is to blame, not us.

Listen scummy mc scummerson just hammer me and get it done with. You know your scum I know your scum don't preach to me like I give a shit any more. Either fucking man the fuck up and hammer me or go and sit back down and try to lick your dick.

[Denul]

Well yeah, but imagine how stupid we would all feel if you, being this scummy all game, were in fact scum, and we didn't lynch you?!

[Shadow]

Okral Lom, on 28 April 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 28 April 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Really?!?! I...I just...I can't believe what I'm reading. There are 31 pages of information here and you're just going to throw it all away? Because people might be lying? No shit people are going to lie - and because of that, you can catch them out! Once you include minis there have probably been about 200 games of Mafia played on this board - I'm flabbergasted that anyone could still hold such a backward and blinkered view after all that time.

Seeing as though I have played in the majority of them and am going to come up RI what does that tell you about your reasoning.

Shadow, on 28 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

And you assmonkeys lynched Rikkter. Then another day goes by and I go off at the End of the game like I do and hey low and behold town has to lynch me because I am distracting on potentially fucking D day. You don't lynch a distraction on D day you lynch a distraction 2 days earlier when he tells you he is going to be a distraction.

Or you could, you know, NOT BE A DISTRACTION! Several players have cited your play today as being what convinced them to vote for you (Bek Okhan, Tiamatha, Denul), not your play from two days ago. If you had been helpful; if you had presented a credible alternative, stated your case and stuck with it, then maybe I might have been convinced that you were playing in town's best interests. You say you've played in many of those 200 games, so you should know how to do that by now. It's Day 6 - at this point there should be more to cases than the pitiful, flimsy reasoning you've laid out today. The bottom line is that if you were town, you would do a better job of it. And if you are indeed town, it is your inability to pose a reasonable defence that is to blame, not us.

But just for kicks lets go back and see how many people have wanted to vote for me before today. How many people have me at the top of their lists. Lets just take a quick look at yesterday not even go back over the last couple.

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Rikkter or Shadow for me.


Neither were around when Korabas revealed. Going back to the previous 'timing case' of Monok's death, both only posted after Serc had been lynched (technically, Shadow posted just before, but it was a cross-post with Eloth's hammer vote on Serc).


I also find Shadow voting and then unvoting Korabas suspicious, as others have pointed out. That might be a good catch.

From recollection, Shadow has been 'off' for much of the game - like the day 1 accusation that Denul had pushed paired killers when that was clearly a joke. Rikkter feels like they basically haven't been around for much of the game, which would fit into missing the crucial turning points in the game.



I'm going to read up more on these two and then make a decision.

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

I'm here, feeling a vote for shadow over rikkter, and unsurprisingly myself

Galayn Lord, on 25 April 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

Morning. Taking a half day at work as car troubles still plague me. Not sure how much times left but I gather I need to land a vote?

I'm unsure why we aren't focusing our thoughts here. Again my top candidate is either Shadow or by inverse logic Denul. That old addage smoke means fire applies here. one of them must be scum and while doubt is building on Denul I think Shadow is the obvious choice for me.

Because of time constrains I'm gonna stick with the shadow vote but will post my review of every player as OL suggests we do. If we get some discussion going before Time out I'm around.

Vote Shadow

That is just the shit I bothered to find. Your full of shit and scum so either hammer or I will post shit until you do.

[Tiamatha]

actually, if OL was scummymcscummerson, shouldn't he, by your own logic shadow, have hammered you into the ground the second Denul dropped his vote?

[Shadow]

Denul, on 28 April 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Well yeah, but imagine how stupid we would all feel if you, being this scummy all game, were in fact scum, and we didn't lynch you?!

I actually haven't been scummy until today. I just haven't asked people for there retarded opinions like the rest of you asskissers always seem to do.