[Ampelas]

 Tiamatha, on 16 April 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

not in the slightest Amp, I'm saying I wasn't a proponent of a serc lynch yesterday, I was after Denul, gusts prediction of interest fade just seems to be coming true, which I don't like, someone who garnered that much heat one day shouldn't simply fade to black the next

The problem I have there is with coasting/low laying scum getting a free ride. I'll have to see what inferences we can make on Denul when I get a change to re-read

The first MO in the post above yours should be Denul btw

[Tiamatha]

i had figured that.

low poster hunts are useful too, there's been a few people (ruse I think, possibly kesso) who we've yet to see much of anything from

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2.

20 hours and 13 minutes are left.

14 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote Shadow: Korabas

Players not voted: Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 16 April 2014 - 11:17 AM

[Alkend]

Just getting up for my morning jog before I get ready for work. Ya'll need to be focused today. As there is no clear target we risk the chance of a no lynch. Tough break for Ment with his first game back. I am going to miss Monok's posts because they were just great. I will catch up after my jog, on my commute and then have a read through when I get to work.

I agree with bringing out the non entities, there is no way we should let someone coast to the end. So a look on some of the less active members during day one may be the way forward today.

[Okral Lom]

 Path-Shaper, on 16 April 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

It is Day 2.

16 hours and 14 minutes are left.

14 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote Shadow: Korabas

Players not voted: Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

Hmm, only 16 hours left? That seems lower than it should be. The first post from PS on Day 2 is here:

 Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

It is Day 2.

14 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

No one has voted.

There are ~12 hours between the two posts, and we're supposed to have 32 hour days. So shouldn't there be 20 hours left?

[Tiamatha]

was thinking 16 was a bit short myself. But Alk has a point, after day ones flurry posting has really tailed off, likely some of this is timezonal but we need to get ourselves together here. Sorting out a delivery then will be dropping a vote somewhere

[Tiamatha]

 Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote for Okral Lom : Serc
3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Shadow
9 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas, Lock, Denul, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Tiamatha,Ampelas,Eloth

Players not voted: Ampelas, Kessobahn, Rikkter, Ruse


That is a lynch

it was actually shadow did the lynch vote count, not denul, I stand corrected, but denul was clock watching and vcing the page previous (just saying)

why was shadow so keen to confirm a lynch? Confirm? Affirm?

keen to see shadows response to Korabas' vote on him, for such a helpful vote counting lynch confirming chap his contribution outside of that does not add up to much, lets give him a hurry along to get some word.

vote shadow

talk to us little.man

[Alkend]

Here is a capture of all the votes that went down after Monok's opening gambit of voting for Denul.

 Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

[long case, loads of quotes snipped.]

Vote Denul.

This vote is with 11 hours left on the clock.

 Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Right, I'm going to bed, and I may not be back until after time out. I'm going to

Vote Denul

because when in doubt, vote the one who is being signaled to.

 Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

I'm going to

vote Denul

why? A combination of OL and sercs actions. korabas starts the suspicion of serc, and OL aims in the opposite direction, trying to discredit korabas in the process.

thus ends the case on my end

 Alkend, on 15 April 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Right now I could see Denul and Okral symps to master Serc. I would definitely like the whole thing cleared up.

Vote Serc

 Korabas, on 15 April 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

[snip]

I agree with this. There hasn't been any decent response to this, when there should be. The 'inexperienced player' excuse is not even applicable as far as I can tell from the sign up. Serc needs to respond to this case in particular.

In fact, I'm still waiting on Denul's response to Monok's case.

I'm going to


Vote Serc


I'll be around in a couple hours to move my vote if necessary. Hopefully by then we get some response from either player.

 Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

That was an interesting read. However, despite all of Denul's posting, I can already sense that this is an issue which is going to run and run throughout the game unless it is resolved, and I'm already tired of it. Alkend may or may not be correct in their suspicions, but either way they appear quite blinkered, dismissing Denul's posting with one-liners here and there. At the same time, Denul's splurging, though it seems at least half-sensible responses, itself raises an eyebrow. Nevertheless, the issue in the end comes down to a link to Serc, which is where Alkend's vote is, so going back to what I said above, this issue needs to be resolved before it ends up taking up all the comments for the next several days. Is Denul symping a scummy Serc?



Vote Serc

 Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

Anyways, so that's the end of my catch-up. Why was it so big and long when it probably didn't need to be? Well there's been quite a few accusations against my behaviour:


1. I am defending Serc

I feel like this is simply due to Alkend and his "I will read you with non-townie eyes" policy. All I did was explain parts of the theme to a player who was not familiar with it, and then note parts of the OP and try to extrapolate game mechanics from them. In so doing, I proved that Serc's idea of a lone Kenshiro was wrong. But that does not mean I need to immediately then pounce upon him and be 101% convinced he is scum. I have made bad assumptions about game mechanics based on OP scenes before, too. Why would I want to discourage anyone from talking about the game mechanics by jumping all over them for not knowing something outside the OP? And yet, that is exactly what everyone seems to have done, and I think it is stupid. Alkend chooses to interpret me thinking it is stupid as scummy, but it's actually me trying to be a reasonable player that actually wants to have something to talk about in this game beyond a billion contrived day 1 signaling accusations.


2. I am being signalled by Serc / Korabas

Well, there's not much I can do to outright disprove that. I think those signaling accusations are extremely weak, and I guess I'll have to restrain myself from posting anything but ZEE MOST ZUPER ZERIOUZ MAFIA SRSZ BIZNESS content on day 1 ever again to avoid it. But part of the reason for my huge catch-up was that I knew it would produce lots of additional interaction that you can all now analyze, as well.


3. I am too laid back / too silly / did not respond to signaling accusations / etc

As I've said, I thought nothing of the Serc reaction to my Yuri post while I was online, and was offline by the time these giant signaling accusations and discussions were being thoroughly bandied about. Somehow this eluded people like MO who accused me of brushing it off by my lack of presence. I am most certainly not doing so, and I will absolutely defend myself against any accusations of being scum. The scale of my catch-up and responses is proportional to how full of shit and strawmanning I feel this particular accusation was, especially coming from MO who has wasted far more time in frivolity than me, but accuses me of being too silly.


At this point, do I think Serc is likely scum? Not really, I think he made an honest query/suggestion and then simply responded to a joke post that was never meant to be taken as contentful, and everyone just piled onto him for it. That being said, I don't know for sure that he isn't scum, and as the more reasonable voices have already pointed out he is the most connected to all the other accusations that have flown about today. If he remains, we will talk about nothing else for the next 2 days. So, I will be voting Serc today as well, and I do hope he is lynched, but more because of damage control than because I think the cases on him merit it.

Vote Serc

 Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

After reading and rereading the thread now. The things that stand out is Denul. He was a middling poster until Alkend started to pressure Serc. Then he exploded into the scene. While there was talk about scum having more then one member there was absolutely no talk from anyone about there being paired killers until Denul brought it up. I think that was a slip up. Yes I know there are a bunch of potential sympage things going on with Serc. I like Denul for being scum.


Vote Denul

 Galayn Lord, on 15 April 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

[snip]
Not bad for a reply.

TBH I don't think keeping you on would be wise. I do think you raise some good points here, I've been keen to hear more from the above for similar reasons. I think Denul is the first port of call after we get your CF, which honestly seems the right play for town. We need to know whats happening with one of you and Denul seems the more logical choice to keep on day 2 IMO, others might disagree. I'm voting Serc because honestly that reply and your CF sets us on the right path. Nothing personal.


Vote Serc

If someone thinks a better case could be made without Sercs CF I'm actually happier following that.

 Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Was reading through on the train and realised just how little time we have left.



Remove Vote

Vote Serc

At this point he and Denul are the only viable candidates, and after rereading the case on Denul I can't bring myself to vote for that travesty.

 Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

unvote

vote Serc



its the only viable option with 45 minutes left

 Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

serves me right replying b4 scrolling down

welp, looks like I'm gonna get the chop. I'm too macho to self-vote, so I'll vote the person pinging my gut-based radar




vote Okral Lom

 Ampelas, on 15 April 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Hate to say it but read the OP, you can't.

Vote Serc

 Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Ok, time is up and I've said my piece, so I'm gonna vote. This should be the hammer if I'm not mistaken.

Vote Serc

 Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote for Okral Lom : Serc
3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Shadow
9 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas, Lock, Denul, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Tiamatha,Ampelas,Eloth

Players not voted: Ampelas, Kessobahn, Rikkter, Ruse


That is a lynch

 Kessobahn, on 15 April 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Ok, time is up and I've said my piece, so I'm gonna vote. This should be the hammer if I'm not mistaken.

Vote Serc

Just in case:

Vote Serc

 Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

[snip]

I'm not sure I appreciate being BO

However, this post perfectly explains for I feel about MO. He seems to have blinkers on, determined to paint any action of Denul's as scummy, without much reference what Denul actually says.

For now, I want a lynch, so I will

Remove vote

Vote Serc

Edit: just seen that my vote isn't needed. Ah well.

[Path-Shaper]

Probably a math fail on my part. I'll fix the timers.

[Alkend]

Out of the voters I dislike Okral Lom. Out of the non voters I think Rikkter and Ruse need looking at. I will read up on the three today.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2.

17 hours and 56 minutes are left.

14 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

2 votes Shadow: Korabas, Tiam

Players not voted: Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 16 April 2014 - 11:21 AM

[Okral Lom]

Right, as I trailed last night I thought I would have a look at Eloth today. For the most part I like the way he is playing - he asks questions to show he is engaged and is willing to exhort players to contribute more. Man after my own heart! Having said that, I was bothered a bit by this pair of posts:

 Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

 Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

I will laugh so hard if I get to SH and there is, in fact only a killer.

As someone unfamiliar with Pratchett's work, was there any meaning to MO's eeking and ooking, or were those just generic monkey noises?

Is this all you are going to say about the discussion surrounding you? I assumed you would have some sort of analysis or rebuttal. With Denul's vote, he's pushed the lynch in your favor over his own - 4 votes Serc, 3 votes Denul now, if I'm not mistaken. We need what, 9 to lynch? And only like 5 hours left on the clock. Depending on who shows up (and who doesn't - Alk basically said he isn't moving his vote), we may have problems with numbers. But it's going to be interesting if Denul's vote is what swings the lynch away from him onto you.

Right now I'm inclined to vote Serc - I'm hoping it will clear up things with Denul, in addition to all of the signalling confusion. I also don't like the lack of response from you, Serc. Are you around or what?

 Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

 Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

After reading and rereading the thread now. The things that stand out is Denul. He was a middling poster until Alkend started to pressure Serc. Then he exploded into the scene. While there was talk about scum having more then one member there was absolutely no talk from anyone about there being paired killers until Denul brought it up. I think that was a slip up. Yes I know there are a bunch of potential sympage things going on with Serc. I like Denul for being scum.


Vote Denul

Ok, talk about cross-posting this game... Back to 4 votes each. Where did Denul bring up paired killers? I had to skim some of the longer Denul posts during my reread.

In the first one he states his current thoughts on the impending Denul vs Serc decision, which seem reasonable. But when Shadow drops the vote on Denul, his immediate reaction is to consider the vote count. So was that reasoning in the first post for real, or just a front to cover the fact that he's looking to vote for whichever candidate is an easier lynch?

He compounds this by holding his vote until the end so that he can hammer:

 Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Ok, time is up and I've said my piece, so I'm gonna vote. This should be the hammer if I'm not mistaken.

Vote Serc

Overall his play seemed rather opportunistic there. He waited to see which way the wind was blowing and then dropped down a vote to finish it off.

There is also the matter of Monoch Ochem. I posted some reasoning for why I didn't like what he was doing on Day 1 and saw two subtly different reactions from Eloth and BO. BO mentioned my case directly and responded to it with his thoughts and agreement. Eloth, on the other hand, never acknowledges the case's existence, but instead starts to nit-pick MO's posts. I can't really think of a good reason why he would behave in that fashion.

For now I'm going to lay down a vote.

Vote Eloth

I want him to explain his behaviour around the end of the day yesterday, and I want to hear some thoughts from him about players that aren't making headlines. So far his play has been notable for only really talking about players who are already in the spotlight - safe, trending topics. Is that a case of keeping hidden in the crowd? Does he have something to say on subjects that other players haven't already chimed in on? What does he think about, say, Rikkter? Or Galayn Lord or Bek Okhan?

[Alkend]

As Okral is case making and voting I am going to leave him out and just focus on Rikkter and Ruse for now.

[Okral Lom]

 Alkend, on 16 April 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

As Okral is case making and voting I am going to leave him out and just focus on Rikkter and Ruse for now.

Is it that or just that I've got a lot more posts you'd have to look through?

[Alkend]

 Okral Lom, on 16 April 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

 Alkend, on 16 April 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

As Okral is case making and voting I am going to leave him out and just focus on Rikkter and Ruse for now.

Is it that or just that I've got a lot more posts you'd have to look through?

It did come to mind yes. It would have to be a lot of effort and work to run through your posts. I would prefer an easier time of it today from my point of view as I am swamped in work and RL is a bit hectic for me.

[Lock]

 Korabas, on 16 April 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

That's not a terrible idea. The only problem is that it relies on Monok being killed for irritating the thread "and nothing more". I generally think that scum would like their kills to serve a specific function. If that is the case, either Monok was a threat and on the right track, or scum want us to go after Denul. In fact, Monok's posts would have been useful to scum if only for the confusion created by his RP.

 Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

 Korabas, on 16 April 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

That's not a terrible idea. The only problem is that it relies on Monok being killed for irritating the thread "and nothing more". I generally think that scum would like their kills to serve a specific function. If that is the case, either Monok was a threat and on the right track, or scum want us to go after Denul. In fact, Monok's posts would have been useful to scum if only for the confusion created by his RP.

I have to agree with this. Killers rarely kill just because someone is being annoying. The annoying ones are good to keep around, there's more drama on thread that way.

 Tiamatha, on 16 April 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

first off night kill speculation:

Lock(?) is suggesting MO (gusty) has been killed because he was irritating. Surely this is absolute nonsense, if anything MO being annoying would be a dead cert for survival, many players (myself included) expressed frustration over his posting style and anything that annoys us is good for the scum. At some stage I probably would have voted for him to make him stop that shit.

A far more likely set of options are: despite his infuriating posting style MO was contributing actively and regardless of how accurate his finger pointing may be once he dropped the librarian schtick he was a lucid reasoned poster, which spells trouble for scum in later stages. Second option is pure meta, he could have been alted, and lets face it, if you're scum you don't want Gusty around, he can be uncanny at times with his scum hunting.

anything outside this is wifom, infact even that is wifom, was his kill a frame job? Was it pre-emptive? Was it a 'shut him up before he really.gets the bit between his teeth?

we don't know, we WON'T know until spoiler heaven, and basing todays actions on speculation over scums logic is as useful as putting a handbrake on a canoe.



So , beyond that, I'm still interested in Denul, he's been too helpful, too reactionary and, as gust predicted, his name has faded into the mist today. I voted Serc to get a lynch and a CF, but its by no means the lynch I wanted to see

You all essentially make the same point and I expected this. It is normal to think that killers usually kill for a strategic reason. However, Monok doesn't make sense in that context to me, which is why I'm pursuing this particular train of thought.

Monok had started to get some heat towards the end of the day, from Okral, Bek, and Eloth most prominently. Many others had commented on how profoundly irritating they had found the RP. These things hardly made Monok the most popular guy around here - he was a prime candidate to keep around, not kill. I could have easily seen our attention focusing on Monok today were he still alive.

Which is what leads me to the theory that perhaps the killer wasn't around at day's end, to see all that negative feeling beginning to come to a slow boil towards Monok.

Yes, of course it could be wrong. But what say I pursue my investigation, and ya'll pursue yours, rather than critiquing things which are perfectly obvious to everyone here. I particularly look at you, Tiamatha. You have been quite fond of spouting off generalisations of behaviour and actions based on (flawed) memories of past games. So here's a generalisation for you: Yes, I have seen, in more than one past game, killers targetting someone without giving tactical consideration as to why.


Edit: Deleted 'paying'.

This post has been edited by Lock: 16 April 2014 - 11:47 AM

[Lock]

I do actually have another - mutually exclusive - idea for who the killer might be, but one thing at a time.

[Shadow]

 Tiamatha, on 16 April 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

 Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote for Okral Lom : Serc
3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Shadow
9 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas, Lock, Denul, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Tiamatha,Ampelas,Eloth

Players not voted: Ampelas, Kessobahn, Rikkter, Ruse


That is a lynch

it was actually shadow did the lynch vote count, not denul, I stand corrected, but denul was clock watching and vcing the page previous (just saying)

why was shadow so keen to confirm a lynch? Confirm? Affirm?

keen to see shadows response to Korabas' vote on him, for such a helpful vote counting lynch confirming chap his contribution outside of that does not add up to much, lets give him a hurry along to get some word.

vote shadow

talk to us little.man

Who are you calling little man? Your dick? I mean that is ok. I refer to mine as Jesus pronounced hey-zeus for you nonspanish speakers.

Did you bother to look for the last vote update before I put that one out. I didn't think so. It was a while before. Town has to lynch if there weren't enough votes for a lynch I was going to switch. But after I added up the votes it was a lynch. PS hadn't been around and there was 45 minutes left in the day. I didn't really feel the serc vote. I would have rather lynched Denul.

[Tiamatha]

 Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

Alright, here is my current thinking. The premise below is based on a complete supposition, so may be entirely inaccurate. Similarly, the narrowing down of the suspect pool is largely based on reasoning rather than evidence - but this is the track I've decided to follow for now. In any event, I do think the scenario is a plausible one - plausible enough to be worth investigating anyway.

So, the theory is: Monok was killed because of the irritating RP, and nothing more

lay out your other theory now for us, I want some more wild theorizing to wash my lunch down with. Granted night one kills can be as random as day one lynchs, but to pick off one of the best players we currently have on pure luck by wasting an 'annoying' player who was clearly irritating the majority of the thread? Don't buy it lock, try harder.

Back on thread I'm still.waiting for shadow to pop up, and at lunch time I'm gonna see.if I can read through him in isolation, still not happy with how Denul has faded into the mist and OL's work intrigues me, could be a good catch on the posts.

[Tiamatha]

cross post