[Eloth]

Denul, on 22 April 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Reading back over the Korabas reveal and reactions, Rikkter looks very suspicious to me. He posts that he is catching up about halfway through the whole thing, after there has already been lots of reaction, speculation, and more, but he never actually posts after it.

Then quite a bit later he appears again and gives zero comment about the Korabas reveal, makes some pointless comments like asking no one in particular about how to proceed going forward, and then takes another break.

Not too long after that, he appears for two posts and votes Korabas, but tempers it with saying a no lynch would be ok and also has a piss poor explanation of why he is voting at all:

Rikkter, on 18 April 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

I'm done

I think a no lynch may be OK in this case if it has to be

vote Korabas
For reveal situation - timing & inconsistence

If scum wanted to lie low about the whole Korabas' reveal and not draw too much attention to themselves about it, Rikkter certainly did so by hardly being present and not commenting on the issue at all. The fact that he posted his arrival (around the time Bek was making his Tiam case) and then never said anything else within a big length of time afterwards sounds to me like a scum who announced himself, then read the thread and realized he'd rather just not post at all to remain hidden. I think this is worth pursuing.

Vote Rikkter

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

So Rikkter - a majority of 'catching up' posts, but some things stand out, especially more recently:



Below Rikkter expresses annoyance at Monok's schtick. It's still the only reason I have for why a killer might have chosen Monok for that night's kill.

Rikkter, on 15 April 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

The last page was a pain in my hindquarters

MO, what was the point of that foolishness? Your text might have even been amusing if it were digestible.

So there are signaling cases flying around. Let me review

In the next couple of posts Rikkter asks others how to respond to Korabas reveal. This is the day following Korabas' reveal (i.e. after Serc's lynch and Alkend's death). Feels like gauging reactions/testing the waters before offering up their own opinion on the matter.

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Morning.

So, I fucked up quite a bit. Might make sense once we reach heaven, but even then....

Here's what I'll leave you with. If you're town, discount everything I've said since the reveal.. Everything. It's all bullshit.

Do what needs to be done.

How do we respond to this situation?

And same again here, asking Okral directly.

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 17 April 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

Right, in any case I think I'm going to have to put a vote down on Ruse as my thread participation is coming to a close for the Game day. His lack of substantial content even after prodding was notable. From my point of view neither he, Shadow nor Rikkter have provided much in the way of useful play, and if there's one thing I can't abide its players who don't pull their weight. I am not as fussed by Ruse raising of the spectre of an FM as some of the others are in and of itself, but what is unacceptable is pointing that out and expecting it to be a substitute for any real analysis/work. So best case is that he's scum who can't bring himself to make cases because he knows everyone else is innocent. Worst case is that he's a townie who isn't putting in the necessary effort. Frankly, the latter are no use to town anyway, so I'm happy with that all things considered.

Vote Ruse

sorry, I am fairly useless at this time, it happens

you still hunting low posters?

What is your take on Korabas?

I'm not sure how to take the post below. Rikkter expresses ignorance at the "no reveals" rule. Not unbelievable in itself - after all, not reading that rule properly is what got Korabas in trouble. Would the killer be ignorant of this rule? I think Rikkter genuinely hasn't been able to invest too much time in the game - which, if anything, means the answer to my question is 'yes, it is possible'.

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Morning.

So, I fucked up quite a bit. Might make sense once we reach heaven, but even then....

Here's what I'll leave you with. If you're town, discount everything I've said since the reveal.. Everything. It's all bullshit.

Do what needs to be done.

How do we respond to this situation?

I can explain it easily. I was trying to use my other skill, and I needed to die. I timed my reveal in the day so that the thread would not have enough time to emergency lynch me. I also did what I could to hold off votes aimed at me, so I used some really faulty logic in order to seem like I had good intentions. Most of what I wrote contradicts itself, as some of you pointed out yesterday.

So you want a pass, I understand, but I am curious what others think - I haven't even got back to your "reveal" yet and I'm not sure why there was a tizzy since reveals are allowed, right

I'm going backwards and about to have to stop for the commute

Now this bit below I found especially interesting. People have pointed out that Shadow voted Korabas and then removed...but so did Rikkter. Rikkter votes with the addendum that he thinks a no lynch would also be good (and then the killer could kill Korabas, of course).

Rikkter, on 18 April 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

I'm done

I think a no lynch may be OK in this case if it has to be

vote Korabas
For reveal situation - timing & inconsistence

Upon returning several hours later, Rikkter removes with the explanation that they want to review, but never returns to re-place their vote or to offer up their conclusions from the 'review.'

Rikkter, on 18 April 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Well, I expected to find the day moved forward

I want to review a while

Remove Vote

until then

I think this sums up about the majority of Rikkter's contribution, but is he just low-posting? The truly damning thing to me is that he's never had a vote on anyone at day's end so far. Plus he also removed from Korabas like Shadow did. And still isn't around. IIRC, he and I were bitching about work yesterday but he hasn't come back since.

[Eloth]

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

what? Read your post

Quote

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum

you suggested that there were possibly 4 sets of symps out there. Then suggested that if kens was on his own there could STILL be three sets of symps out there. OL asked me.for.my take on you mechanics suggestions, I'm saying I doubted there would be warlords symps as it would be very tough for a lone killer. My entire speculation on you from day one was scuk symp, you were the one who brought up a suggestion of faction symps.

Now you are talking past the point.

Indeed, I said "If Kenshiro has any allies" there could be four follower partnerships.

You said "if Kenshiro is on his own" there could be four follower partnerships.

3 warlords + 1 kenshiro = 4, but you are removing Kenshiro from the equation so you should not have reached 4. Unless you are indeed some kind of Kenshiro follower, so that you could make the mental break from deliberately lying about Kenshiro and then not consciously remember to drop the 4 to 3 when you told the truth afterwards.

remove vote
vote Tiam

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Or he is indeed Kenshiro, has an Amon-style one-time FM jump when he dies, and all this "waaah work is piling up just lynch me I'm so noble" crap is a decoy for when he jumps into a high-poster!

You removed from Rikkter to vote for Tiam based on his number slip up - do you still feel the same way about Rikkter as you did in the post I quoted a post or two above?

Are you being serious about Shadow here? Because if so, what exactly are you proposing we do about it? You're saying Shadow might be Kenshiro because he may have an LP and is offering to be lynched...so if that is really your reasoning, what are you suggesting is the resolution to the Shadow problem and how does that fit with your vote on Tiam?

We have little time left and votes are moving around, I'm going to try and get a vote count.

[Eloth]

Well shit. I'm the only one here.

[Tiamatha]

I'm here, feeling a vote for shadow over rikkter, and unsurprisingly myself

[Eloth]

Path-Shaper, on 23 April 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

There are 7 hours left in Day 4.

10 players alive.
Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Shadow, Tiamatha


One vote Denul: Shadow
One vote Rikkter: Denul
One vote Shadow: Okral Lom
One vote Tiam: Bek Okhan

Players not voting: Ampelas, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Rikkter, Tiamatha

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

Bah, I'm going to


Vote Rikkter


The killings (non-killings in Korabas' case) match that of someone without full awareness of the game. Rikkter also really seemed to want to feel out how others would react to Korabas' reveal, before putting in a half-hearted vote which they later removed. I'll be around later to change if need be. I'm going to be absent for a couple of hours though.

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

what? Read your post

Quote

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum

you suggested that there were possibly 4 sets of symps out there. Then suggested that if kens was on his own there could STILL be three sets of symps out there. OL asked me.for.my take on you mechanics suggestions, I'm saying I doubted there would be warlords symps as it would be very tough for a lone killer. My entire speculation on you from day one was scuk symp, you were the one who brought up a suggestion of faction symps.

Now you are talking past the point.

Indeed, I said "If Kenshiro has any allies" there could be four follower partnerships.

You said "if Kenshiro is on his own" there could be four follower partnerships.

3 warlords + 1 kenshiro = 4, but you are removing Kenshiro from the equation so you should not have reached 4. Unless you are indeed some kind of Kenshiro follower, so that you could make the mental break from deliberately lying about Kenshiro and then not consciously remember to drop the 4 to 3 when you told the truth afterwards.

remove vote
vote Tiam

That makes the vote count...:


10 players alive.
Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Shadow, Tiamatha


1 vote Denul: Shadow
1 vote Rikkter: Lock
1 vote Shadow: Okral Lom
2 votes Tiam: Bek Okhan, Denul

Players not voting: Ampelas, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Rikkter, Tiamatha

[Eloth]

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

I'm here, feeling a vote for shadow over rikkter, and unsurprisingly myself

Well I was feeling the same way until examining the cases made on Rikkter, but now Denul is backing off his case to vote for you. I would like more from Denul about why he changed his mind about Rikkter so late in the day, which I'm not sure was helpful.

Vote Rikkter

I'm willing to switch to Shadow but I am also hoping that Rikker shows up. If he doesn't, I probably will stick here. We have 3 hours left; unless people start showing up soon I don't see how we will have the numbers. We already have some people who voted and said they would not be back (Bek, iirc).

Tiam, why Shadow over Rikkter based on current analysis?

[Tiamatha]

I'll be voting Denul.or Shadow. Fwiw

[Tiamatha]

cross post.


I've had arguements with shadow already where he seemed to be being deliberatley obstinate to the point of trying to smoother discussion. Haven't had.mich interaction with Rikkter, but then no one really has

[Rikkter]

I'm getting work-related insanity, so I have barely skimmed the last few pages. I see my name a lot, don't blame you since I'm doing a poor job

I don't even have a gut feeling toward anyone, that's how out of touch I am now

[Denul]

I haven't changed my mind about Rikkter. Rikkter, Shadow, Tiam... this is one of those days where a lot of people seem really scummy and I would happily vote any of them.

[Tiamatha]

I make it about 2 hours left

me voting shadow or Denul right now would put us in a three way tie and no further forward, but I feel one of those two is the right way to go.

[Lock]

I'm back and will be here till timeout.

[Ampelas]

Urgh, work is a bitch. Excuse me whilst I catch up.

[Denul]

So Tiam's reaction to my pressuring him about the numbers has been to first be a bit affronted and dismissive - when really its not a difficult issue to understand at all - and then to ignore it completely? Hoping it'll just blow over because you're close to day timeout?

I will change to Rikkter or Shadow if needed, but I really do think Tiam is looking scummier by the minute.

[Eloth]

Well, what the fuck are we doing? We have like an hour left.

----
10 players alive.
Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Shadow, Tiamatha


1 vote Denul: Shadow
2 votes Rikkter: Lock, Eloth
1 vote Shadow: Okral Lom
2 votes Tiam: Bek Okhan, Denul

Players not voting: Ampelas, Galayn Lord, Rikkter, Tiamatha
----

6 votes to lynch. The vote split is not doing us any favors. Assuming Bek is not showing back up -

Bek Okhan, on 23 April 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Right, I'm going to bed, and I may or may not be back before time out. I've seen nothing else convincing so far today, so I'm going to

vote Tiam.

And now, goodnight!

- does this mean Tiam is our only viable option? Who else is even online to switch their vote? Rikkter/Tiam, you guys haven't voted yet, are you planning on letting the day timeout?

[Lock]

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

So Tiam's reaction to my pressuring him about the numbers has been to first be a bit affronted and dismissive - when really its not a difficult issue to understand at all - and then to ignore it completely? Hoping it'll just blow over because you're close to day timeout?

I will change to Rikkter or Shadow if needed, but I really do think Tiam is looking scummier by the minute.

Likewise my vote is not set in stone, though I must admit I haven't had a scummy vibe off Tiam. I will read up on them now. Let's, uh, just not all end up swapping votes to each others' candidates

[Ampelas]

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

I recall the post and, it struck me a bit because it seemed like Denul was trying to put a stop to a discussion he was, iirc, bang center off.

As for the role speculation, if Kenshiro is on his own I find the idea of 4 sets of symps unlikely, because it would have given the warlords too much power surely?

Depends how you want to look at it - if a Warlord has a symp and the Warlord is in danger of getting lynched then the symp needs to work. Say the symp averts the lynch, Ken picks up on the symping and bags the Warlord as a NK. With the Warlord as a target I think symps would be a workable idea to highlight them that little bit more and make it less of a random choice. I however don't think we have symps to Warlords any more. No, not too sure on why but I don't think we do.

[Ampelas]

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

As for the role speculation, if Kenshiro is on his own I find the idea of 4 sets of symps unlikely, because it would have given the warlords too much power surely?

I think Korabas' reveal shows us that Kenshiro is either not on his own or else has some defenses to counter whatever warlord powers are arrayed against him. (Eloth suggests Korabas could have lied, but a townie doing a fake reveal that muddies up the thread as much as Korabas' did would be so unhelpful to town I can't see how even Korabas would think it is a good idea.)

But where do you get 4 sets of symps? In the same sentence of Kenshiro being on his own? Is that some sort of slip-up?

Someone mentioned before names from the anime that could be scum - I can't remember who or the names but there was I think two of them.

I think from my scan of the wiki the Warlords die in a particular order, would Shin have taken that into account with the abilities? The inverted organ thing makes me consider it. Therefore there may be mechanisms we're not aware of in play. Someone else mentioned a jump, I am suspecting it with Korabas' revealed abilities.

Any anime fans out there care to comment on if Ken has any style of manoeuvre/defence/ability demonstrated?

[Ampelas]

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Rikkter or Shadow for me.


Neither were around when Korabas revealed. Going back to the previous 'timing case' of Monok's death, both only posted after Serc had been lynched (technically, Shadow posted just before, but it was a cross-post with Eloth's hammer vote on Serc).


I also find Shadow voting and then unvoting Korabas suspicious, as others have pointed out. That might be a good catch.

From recollection, Shadow has been 'off' for much of the game - like the day 1 accusation that Denul had pushed paired killers when that was clearly a joke. Rikkter feels like they basically haven't been around for much of the game, which would fit into missing the crucial turning points in the game.



I'm going to read up more on these two and then make a decision.

If Rikkter is scum after so little involvement I will be adding a name to my list. The play indicates slightly disinterested RI to me, even if they did miss all lynch trains.

[Tiamatha]

what do you want me to say Denul, you deliberately misconstrue what I say, there's no need to defend any further than I have.

vote Rikkter

I'm not self voting and no one else seems to feel the way I do about Denul, rikkter is the only viable choice at the minute, but Id still rather shadow/denul