[Lock]

So Rikkter - a majority of 'catching up' posts, but some things stand out, especially more recently:



Below Rikkter expresses annoyance at Monok's schtick. It's still the only reason I have for why a killer might have chosen Monok for that night's kill.

Rikkter, on 15 April 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

The last page was a pain in my hindquarters

MO, what was the point of that foolishness? Your text might have even been amusing if it were digestible.

So there are signaling cases flying around. Let me review

In the next couple of posts Rikkter asks others how to respond to Korabas reveal. This is the day following Korabas' reveal (i.e. after Serc's lynch and Alkend's death). Feels like gauging reactions/testing the waters before offering up their own opinion on the matter.

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Morning.

So, I fucked up quite a bit. Might make sense once we reach heaven, but even then....

Here's what I'll leave you with. If you're town, discount everything I've said since the reveal.. Everything. It's all bullshit.

Do what needs to be done.

How do we respond to this situation?

And same again here, asking Okral directly.

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 17 April 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

Right, in any case I think I'm going to have to put a vote down on Ruse as my thread participation is coming to a close for the Game day. His lack of substantial content even after prodding was notable. From my point of view neither he, Shadow nor Rikkter have provided much in the way of useful play, and if there's one thing I can't abide its players who don't pull their weight. I am not as fussed by Ruse raising of the spectre of an FM as some of the others are in and of itself, but what is unacceptable is pointing that out and expecting it to be a substitute for any real analysis/work. So best case is that he's scum who can't bring himself to make cases because he knows everyone else is innocent. Worst case is that he's a townie who isn't putting in the necessary effort. Frankly, the latter are no use to town anyway, so I'm happy with that all things considered.

Vote Ruse

sorry, I am fairly useless at this time, it happens

you still hunting low posters?

What is your take on Korabas?

I'm not sure how to take the post below. Rikkter expresses ignorance at the "no reveals" rule. Not unbelievable in itself - after all, not reading that rule properly is what got Korabas in trouble. Would the killer be ignorant of this rule? I think Rikkter genuinely hasn't been able to invest too much time in the game - which, if anything, means the answer to my question is 'yes, it is possible'.

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 17 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Morning.

So, I fucked up quite a bit. Might make sense once we reach heaven, but even then....

Here's what I'll leave you with. If you're town, discount everything I've said since the reveal.. Everything. It's all bullshit.

Do what needs to be done.

How do we respond to this situation?

I can explain it easily. I was trying to use my other skill, and I needed to die. I timed my reveal in the day so that the thread would not have enough time to emergency lynch me. I also did what I could to hold off votes aimed at me, so I used some really faulty logic in order to seem like I had good intentions. Most of what I wrote contradicts itself, as some of you pointed out yesterday.

So you want a pass, I understand, but I am curious what others think - I haven't even got back to your "reveal" yet and I'm not sure why there was a tizzy since reveals are allowed, right

I'm going backwards and about to have to stop for the commute

Now this bit below I found especially interesting. People have pointed out that Shadow voted Korabas and then removed...but so did Rikkter. Rikkter votes with the addendum that he thinks a no lynch would also be good (and then the killer could kill Korabas, of course).

Rikkter, on 18 April 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

I'm done

I think a no lynch may be OK in this case if it has to be

vote Korabas
For reveal situation - timing & inconsistence

Upon returning several hours later, Rikkter removes with the explanation that they want to review, but never returns to re-place their vote or to offer up their conclusions from the 'review.'

Rikkter, on 18 April 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Well, I expected to find the day moved forward

I want to review a while

Remove Vote

until then

[Tiamatha]

right, we're going nowhere at the minute, and there's been 4/5 online for everytime I've bounced on here.

its looks like shadow is getting the attention today but I don't know how we'll get on for getting the numbers in the next few hours (4?)

[Tiamatha]

cross post, I took shadows response as more off kilter than rikkters but that's more likely because of a lack of participation from.him on the whole

[Lock]

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

cross post, I took shadows response as more off kilter than rikkters but that's more likely because of a lack of participation from.him on the whole

Well, I'm going to go see what Shadow's been saying now, then I'll lay down a vote.

[Okral Lom]

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

I recall the post and, it struck me a bit because it seemed like Denul was trying to put a stop to a discussion he was, iirc, bang center off.

As for the role speculation, if Kenshiro is on his own I find the idea of 4 sets of symps unlikely, because it would have given the warlords too much power surely?

OK, that's fair - a lot of the heat on Denul revolved around symp signalling, so Denul's post could definitely be construed as feeding misinformation to discredit the use of signalling as the basis for a case. So I guess the question becomes whether his assertions about the existence of Warlord symps are in fact based on any special knowledge or not.

One thing that could weigh in his favour is that Ampelas had previously brought up the possibility of their existence here:

Ampelas, on 15 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just caught up and what the hell is going on?

I could interpret half the posts on the first few pages as signalling should I so desire. All you idiots wise up - we don't need to signal our Warlord who we are so cut it out. The only people on thread remotely considering signalling should be symps, every one else of you is painting a bull's-eye on someone else for Kenshiro.

Denul claims to have forgotten about this when he made his post (although does that ring true?):

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 16 April 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

I hate to say I told you so but

Ampelas, on 15 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just caught up and what the hell is going on?

I could interpret half the posts on the first few pages as signalling should I so desire. All you idiots wise up - we don't need to signal our Warlord who we are so cut it out. The only people on thread remotely considering signalling should be symps, every one else of you is painting a bull's-eye on someone else for Kenshiro.

You did indeed. Forgot about that post.

[Eloth]

First, to finish this readup...

Ampelas, on 16 April 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ok so this is the other point I wanted to bring up about mechanics and scum hunting in this game.

PS did retcon the "majority" from the scum VCs as potentially just "parity". So it could be that Kenshiro really is alone, or it could be that he has followers, we don't know. Either way, we only need to eliminate Kenshiro to win.

I do think and have expressed that I think we are too gung-ho to jump on signalling accusations etc, but that is not to say that looking for killers/lead scum via links to/from their followers/partners is not useful and worth doing. Normally!

The problem is, this game has the three gang leaders each of whom may have followers that they know or that know them. The sign-up thread said the game "Contains some variations of typical roles" so there could be any kind of role out there.

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum.

Just something for everyone else to keep in mind. We need to focus on individual behaviours more than potential partner or follower relationships or else there's a good chance we'll wind up just shooting ourselves in the foot.

I hate to say I told you so but

Ampelas, on 15 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just caught up and what the hell is going on?

I could interpret half the posts on the first few pages as signalling should I so desire. All you idiots wise up - we don't need to signal our Warlord who we are so cut it out. The only people on thread remotely considering signalling should be symps, every one else of you is painting a bull's-eye on someone else for Kenshiro.

Although I found this suspicious in the context of the first half of Amp's play, looking back this is actually sound logic. And I am pretty sure this is where the idea that Warlords had symps came from originally, since we are still arguing about that. I mean, Amp claims that he said it first. But Tiam is the only one to respond to it for a long time. I think this may have just been a mistake, putting too much info on thread before it was time. There is also a phrase or two here that I find quite interesting but I'm not going to comment on at the moment.

Ampelas, on 16 April 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

I'll also add I'm not going to be around at timeout, when my vote goes down it will be staying there. I'm going to re-read Ruse and a couple of others

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Seriously, what?

We've gone form scum having to take shots at pretty much random to fulfil their warlord VC to having a plain target. That is so not cool.

By taking you out the equation we deny the warlord VCs therefore making the other two a much less tempting target to scum.

I really don't see what you were aiming to achieve with coming out like that.

Path-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Game specific rules:
Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.

If we don't lynch you then scum only need two NKs to win the game. If we do lynch you it is down to the parity condition (3 scum parity in 3 days, 2 scum parity 4 days, 1 scum parity 9 days) therefore it is better for town to lynch a known warlord.

I'll try and take a look at posting times over the game and see who *couldn't* have been around to change NK orders since Korabas came out - myself as the first one - and therefore whoever *may* be Ken. I am not discounting a killer being online and not changing but is worth considering; Eloth, Kessobahn, Okral Lom and Lock were all on after Korabas' reveal. Who else could have been is what I'll be looking at

Vote Korabas

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Tiamatha, on 17 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

cross posting.

that's a slap on the wrist that basically confirms Korabas, makes him PI and probably dead tonight.

Amp is out of the traps entirely too sharp for.my liking, we have 36 hours to decide if we want to go down that route amp, eager for a speed lynch to get back to night?

So I'm eager for a speed lynch that would remove one of my VCs were I scum? Get with the program sunhine.

My vote will not be shifting bar a confirmed scum detection.

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

Okral Lom, on 17 April 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Tiamatha, on 17 April 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

the program says kenshiro still has to NK 2 more specific targets after Korabas (assuming PS's post is for Korabas and he is in fact a warlord). Your program will leave us down to 10 at the drop of a hat, with nothing gained from today but another body. Wereas if we sit back and actually try, oh I duno, lynch Kenshiro today......

I think I agree with Tiam here. Yes, there is some benefit to denying the scum their three warlord NKs VC. But consider that with 12 players left there are going to be at most 5 NKs (based on current rate of one per night and assuming that there's the minimum possible number of scum). Do we need to be worried about the scum achieving that VC? Hitting all three correctly seems like a pretty tough ask, even with Korabas' reveal. Is it worth throwing away a day's worth of discussion and analysis for a kill that won't benefit town all that much? I'm not sure it is.

I'm still open for a Korabas lynch if as a last resort, but I'd hope we'd be able to do better...

I'm not advocating a speed lynch, just a lynch to deny a VC. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Okay, dug through a bit. Those alts who have not demonstrated the ability to be on thread at within an hour of the time Korabas claimed Warlordship and the lynch time are:

Ampelas, Denul, Rikkter, Shadow, Tiamatha

Depending on how you think scum would react to a Warlord reveal your targets are possibly amongst them - they would likely not have been around in time to change a kill order should they wish to do so.

Ampelas, Denul and Tiam have close calls with the timeframe, Denul at the start and Tiam & I at the end. The rest are clearly out for the count.

Given Tiam and I haven't posted before the lynch time I discount us leaving (slightly) Denul, (firm) Rikkter & (firm) Shadow.

This lines up with Lock's current thinking that on Rikkter and Shadow as well. However his vote stays on Korabas - I'm assuming his logic is to lynch Korabas to prevent scum VCs and he's now setting up who he would actually vote for if we didn't have Korabas's reveal.

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Denul, on 17 April 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Ampelas, Denul and Tiam have close calls with the timeframe, Denul at the start and Tiam & I at the end. The rest are clearly out for the count.

Given Tiam and I haven't posted before the lynch time I discount us leaving (slightly) Denul, (firm) Rikkter & (firm) Shadow.

I don't understand how you're discounting people here exactly

As I said, depending on how you think Ken would have reacted to a Warlord reveal interpret it in your own way. Were I scum I'd have been hanging around and changed my kill orders, possibly without posting on thread. On that basis one of those listed is Ken because they *didn't* change kill orders. It does depend on what you think scum would do.

"What you think scum would do" == WIFOM...

[Denul]

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

what? Read your post

Quote

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum

you suggested that there were possibly 4 sets of symps out there. Then suggested that if kens was on his own there could STILL be three sets of symps out there. OL asked me.for.my take on you mechanics suggestions, I'm saying I doubted there would be warlords symps as it would be very tough for a lone killer. My entire speculation on you from day one was scuk symp, you were the one who brought up a suggestion of faction symps.

Now you are talking past the point.

Indeed, I said "If Kenshiro has any allies" there could be four follower partnerships.

You said "if Kenshiro is on his own" there could be four follower partnerships.

3 warlords + 1 kenshiro = 4, but you are removing Kenshiro from the equation so you should not have reached 4. Unless you are indeed some kind of Kenshiro follower, so that you could make the mental break from deliberately lying about Kenshiro and then not consciously remember to drop the 4 to 3 when you told the truth afterwards.

remove vote
vote Tiam

[Lock]

Not much to add to Shadow that hasn't been said already. A lot of day 1 they spent in a back and forth with Okral Lom about big dick insinuations (now why wasn't that ever held up as signalling? ).



Shadow's response to Monok being killed. Killer can't help confessing reasoning?

Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

fuck that's a double whammy and mistake.

Don't want to stray into wifom this early in the day, I suck at alting but could killer(s?) have pinged gust and thought he had to go cause he's bloody good or was he on a right track.

Probably because they found his posting irritating. Although I still want to vote for Denul again today. The lynch of Serc did nothing to clear him in my mind.

Below is Shadow's vote for Korabas. The talk about modkilling makes me imagine that Shadow went to PS and asked for Korabas to be modkilled. Now why would a killer do that, as it would automatically end the chances for one of their VCs (as Shadow themselves then noted)? Well, one answer could be that they feared whatever other abilities the warlord Korabas might have and felt it was better to get rid of them as quick as possible then hope that they can wait till the next night to kill them.

Shadow, on 17 April 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

Korabas, on 16 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 16 April 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Out of curiosity Korabas, what's your opinion on this post of Denul's, specifically the stuff about Warlord symps?

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ok so this is the other point I wanted to bring up about mechanics and scum hunting in this game.

PS did retcon the "majority" from the scum VCs as potentially just "parity". So it could be that Kenshiro really is alone, or it could be that he has followers, we don't know. Either way, we only need to eliminate Kenshiro to win.

I do think and have expressed that I think we are too gung-ho to jump on signalling accusations etc, but that is not to say that looking for killers/lead scum via links to/from their followers/partners is not useful and worth doing. Normally!

The problem is, this game has the three gang leaders each of whom may have followers that they know or that know them. The sign-up thread said the game "Contains some variations of typical roles" so there could be any kind of role out there.

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum.

Just something for everyone else to keep in mind. We need to focus on individual behaviours more than potential partner or follower relationships or else there's a good chance we'll wind up just shooting ourselves in the foot.

I've thought about this. It's a good post. Being a gang leader myself, I can't really say I know any of my 'team'. That said, the symp-master relationship outlined above would certainly accommodate a single killer, since any symp-master relationship has essentially lost its meaning. So now we have a whole town team, likely speckled with roles, but our ability to track on-thread symp relationships has been hamstrung. I can't say I've seen this sort of game in the few I've played.

fixed 'have' to 'has'

Well that is a how do you do first thing in the morning isn't it. I don't understand your reasoning revealing yourself like that. Seems that you got all caught up in the moment and blew your load. Kinda surprised that PS didn't modkill you truthfully. But that is probably because if your who you say you are then it would remove a VC condition anyway. This way the town will do it and save him the need to modkill. I see no other choice then to lynch Korbas today.

Vote for Korbas

In this post below, Shadow makes a show of being willing to be the lynch target for the greater good. Someone (Denul?) suggested that Kenshiro might have protections against warlord abilities such as the one Korabas originally had. I find this quite likely, though what those abilities might amount to could be anything. In any case, it may be that Kenshiro would not be afraid of being lynched at least once.

Shadow, on 17 April 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 17 April 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

gee thanks for producing such a helpful lynch list for us. disregarding the fact its entirely based on wifom you've just set yourself up to wifom any lynch/ kill for the rest of the game. This screams scum to me, not helpful townie

Both myself and you are on the to be lynched list. I am willing to be lynched tomorrow. Today we need to lynch Korbas as otherwise scum will be able to do it and retain both of his VC. How it is based on WIFOM. That is a very casual disregard. Do you have a problem with the logic. It seems very clear cut to me. I figure the likely hood that Scum would willingly sacrifice an easier (perceived true) VC in order to be called a PI to be very slim.

[Eloth]

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

Shadow, on 17 April 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Denul, on 17 April 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Ampelas, Denul and Tiam have close calls with the timeframe, Denul at the start and Tiam & I at the end. The rest are clearly out for the count.

Given Tiam and I haven't posted before the lynch time I discount us leaving (slightly) Denul, (firm) Rikkter & (firm) Shadow.

I don't understand how you're discounting people here exactly

Especially since he is discounting 2 people. I mean discounting himself sure. I wouldn't expect anything else. But two people. That smacks of something fishy.

Go check posting times for yourself. Tell me how many people you think are dedicated enough to get out of bed an hour early to check Mafia

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

Maybe you get an hour early every morning when you're playing Mafia so don't see an issue. I don't do that.

Only interesting thing here is Amp is still on the WIFOM kick about Korabas and now he's arguing based on voting times. I mentioned earlier about Kesso's odd comment about time posting cases but I'm guessing that this is what he was referring to.

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

<snip>
And regularly go online at 3am to check thread for reveals to change your kill orders?

Back and forth with Shadow for awhile...

Ampelas, on 17 April 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

<snip>
By that logic, don't forget Denul - they were more likely to hang on that bit longer and see the reveal than Tiam or I were to get up earlier, catch up on thread and see it. Tiam I am sure is quite capable of standing up for themselves but I do doubt as I have already said, someone getting up extra-early to play Mafia.I simply put my analysis on thread and let others draw their own conclusions from it.You'll be around for another 2 hours yet most likely, I'm sure others can look into you if they so desire.As for symping, why would I symp someone who has drawn very little attention? Did you ever say which side of the 1 scum/multiple scum you're on?

Ampelas, on 18 April 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

So I'm back, and PS reassured me that its good to post.

Tiamatha, on 17 April 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Game specific rules:

REVEALS OF IDENTITY ARE STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. Reveals of abilities, real or fake, are allowed.

Because everyone in the Hokuto world is bulging with self-confidence, Self-voting is not allowed, even "to get a lynch".

Days are 32 hours, nights are instant. (Martial artists must be immediately decisive)

Victory Conditions

Town: Eliminate Kenshiro

Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.

abilities can be claimed.

if your ability somehow is related to you survival it throws pretty much everything based on your survival out the window.

several is anything more than 2 afaik

eta - inflatable girlfriends watch whatever you tell them too

I'm just being extra careful since I fucked myself over recently. So my ability essentially guards me from night kills until another warlord dies. I had another role that I was trying to play yesterday. Essentially it announced my killer to the thread in the event of my death. Presumably this should have revealed Kenshiro. However, since I broke the rules, I lost that ability. Instead I now have the one super-guard. The only downside is that using my guard came with a gamble. If another warlord was dead already, then it would have killed me immediately. I'm guessing that warlords might not be revealed as such when they die. The only people that might know if a warlord is dead are those players who were given that information (team members, presumably). This is all I have to offer. I hope it helps.

To scum.: Mouahahaha I am invincible!

Sorry, but this strikes me as so much bullshit.

We have most likely got a single killer in the game - Kenshiro. So he NKs you and gets announced on thread by your ability. We then lynch him. Game over for scum. This doesn't strike me as being a setup with much in the way of hope for scums #2 VC.

Underlined screams symp at me. Explain how it is different to us not seeing a Warlord CF because you're symp and going to CF as town.

Italicised section, people take a look at your own PM and draw your own conclusions from the section in brackets.

I'm 100% certain you're not town RI, I have grave doubts about you being a Warlord. At least when you CF as RI we'll know you were a symp and can look into yesterday/today with that in mind.

Ampelas, on 18 April 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Korabas, on 17 April 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Back from work. I was pretty bummed about the whole mess. But I'll help where I can.

Denul, on 17 April 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Briefly checking in and quickly reading up.

I disagree with Tiam that considering player posting times with the lack of a Korabas NK is without merit. Despite potential wifom situations, the really is no reason for the killer not to have switched to Korabas if they could. There is minimal gain in the wifom department, because Shin's mod post basically CI'd Korabas despite him not being NK'd. At the same time, the killer would know for sure there's a good possibility of us lynching Korabas if he survives. Killing Korabas maintains the easier scum VC which potentially alleviates the killer ever having to get into a more dangerous D-Day where there are fewer town players to hide amongst.

So, I do think if the killer was online they would have certainly switched to Korabas. There's just not enough value in not doing so for them, as far as I can see. Looking at who was and wasn't online at the time (as well as taking into account the MO NK, which is wifomier but worth thinking about in conjunction with this timing case) is very worthwhile, IMO.

I also disagree about gangleaders not being revealed in CFs. The dead have so far been CF'd as not just innocent but RI. RI means something very specific and the gangleaders are certainly not RI based upon the OP/sign-up hints.

I do, however, agree with Tiam about lynching Korabas. We have a CI/VPI, no need to do a guaranteed wasted lynch on him. No other gangleaders have CF'd yet, so losing one tonight is not a big deal. There are still two left that we might lynch by mistake or that can deliberately do something stupid to get lynched if they are the last one and are afraid Kenshiro will get his 3 leader NKs.

I didn't get NK'd because of my ability. I need to double check with PS to see if I can elaborate further. I'm waiting on a response, but I have to head out for a bit anyway. I'll be back in an hour or two to expand on this.

Interesting claim here. So you're claiming to have been targeted for a NK? Well, given that Alkend was NKd I call bullshit on this too. BPs don't work like that*.

*Note Shin said some variations on typical roles but BPs don't generally deflect - if they did you chose Alkend to deflect to? Why?

Ampelas, on 18 April 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Okral Lom, on 18 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 18 April 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Sorry, but this strikes me as so much bullshit.

We have most likely got a single killer in the game - Kenshiro. So he NKs you and gets announced on thread by your ability. We then lynch him. Game over for scum. This doesn't strike me as being a setup with much in the way of hope for scums #2 VC.

Underlined screams symp at me. Explain how it is different to us not seeing a Warlord CF because you're symp and going to CF as town.

Italicised section, people take a look at your own PM and draw your own conclusions from the section in brackets.

I'm 100% certain you're not town RI, I have grave doubts about you being a Warlord. At least when you CF as RI we'll know you were a symp and can look into yesterday/today with that in mind.

"When" you CF as RI? That seems a bit presumptive. I agree with you that the post you highlight has a high level of random theory smoke-screening going on. Although I would say that since everyone has access to the RI PM, catching someone out for not knowing what's in it seems unlikely.

Well I don't believe the warlord claims and I highly doubt Korb is Ken, therefore is a symp.

Ampelas, on 18 April 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Well on the plus side that scum VC is now null and void.

Also as he CF'd with a Warlord name no need to continue my symp speculation.

Were Korabas's claims of abilities true it does raise an interesting question - a Warlord with major NK defences, does Kenshiro have similar beefed up abilities? A LP? Multiple NKs?

So I skipped some posts in the interest of time and because they weren't relevant. There are really only two things that bother me about Amp after a full reread. First, he says several times that once he votes, he's not removing it. That's odd. I normally wouldn't expect that from a townie but he may just be sticking to his guns.

However, that leads into the other problem...the vote on Korabas was really fast, based on the idea that we should lynch the Warlord to prevent scum VCs. By the end of the day, Amp is calling bullshit on the Warlord reveal, bullshit on the ability reveals, and pegs Korabas as a symp and not a Warlord - but still leaves his vote. So he wasn't trying to prevent scum VCs at this point, at least by his own words. That strikes me wrong but there really isn't anything else I found that stood out to me. And unfortunately I agreed completely about Korabas, I didn't buy the reveal either and was vocal about it, so that's what I was referring to when I said that Amp said a lot of stuff I agreed with.

Maybe I need more time to think about this but I'm wrapping this up for the moment in the interest of time. Aside from the two points above, I don't see anything worth pursuing further right now as it's close to timeout.

[Lock]

There's also a fair bit on Shadow which I didn't mention because it's been covered by others (the vote/remove vote from Korabas after talking with Tiam; the argument with Tiam; the suspicion of Denul which mostly seems to revolve around Gust/Monok having been suspicious of them; the List they made up). I'll personally have to discount that last one (the list) because it's basically the theory that I'm working from too, so I can't very well use it against Shadow, though I would never have ended that particular post with "so these guys should be killed, and these guys should be lynched."

[Lock]

We have 4 hours 10 minutes left.


This is a toughie.

[Eloth]

Ampelas, on 23 April 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Eloth, on 22 April 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

<snip>

Low posting was down to RL, I finally got a bit of a break to post in and you want to start muttering about it a week later? Whatever.

FYI tomorrow (human time, not game time) I'm going to not check in at all because RL. Sure, make a low posting, smooth case on it.

Underlined is to say: Yes, our peak posting times are with a few hours of each other. RL aside this is why more posts then.

Tonight or Friday I'll reciprocate and take a look at you if I'm still around.

The reason I went back through the first few days is because I said I would and then you started actually playing the game almost immediately after that. So I had planned to do it anyway but your sudden appearance made me want to follow through with it. Yeah, it took me awhile cause of RL and Easter and work - and actually, why are you so defensive about that anyway? I said pretty clearly that I hadn't made up my mind on you and that I was going analyze most of what you've actually said later. Anyway if you want to be flippant about then fine - whatever, like you said. RL does get in the way. Preempting a future case on you by saying that you aren't going to be around isn't compelling either. Fine, you're going to be gone - whatever. If there IS a case to be made, then I'll make it if you're here or not.

[Eloth]

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

We have 4 hours 10 minutes left.


This is a toughie.

Yeah, sigh. I will be around till timeout at least though. I spent too much time looking at Amp, even though he's being a little bitch about it now. Just based on thread interaction, my current leaning is toward Shadow first, Tiam second. I need to read the case on Rikkter, have almost no read on him so far other than a little gut feeling.

[Shadow]

I am still crazy busy at work. So yeah I don't care one way or the other. I think that Denul or Tiam are a good lynch. But anyone from the bottom half of my list would remove a question mark. If that is me today I am fine with that. Obviously I won't be voting for myself. But I don't have the time to play or look at things or care so I would probably be a good lynch if for no other reason then removing the question mark. But I am also a pretty easy lynch. So after my lynch you should ask who pushed the lynch on me and why. Who kept saying that I was acting scummy and what not. Anyway that is all I have time for right now. Most likely for the rest of the day as well.

[Lock]

Out of Rikkter and Shadow, if I voted purely based on their posting, and disregarded all the timing (educated) speculation, then I'd only have the choice to vote for Shadow. They have certainly said more questionable things, and when they haven't, they've kept a low profile. But a large part of the reason why I would have to vote for Shadow is because Rikkter has volunteered hardly anything, so there is almost nothing concrete post-wise to pin on them.

[Lock]

Bah, I'm going to


Vote Rikkter


The killings (non-killings in Korabas' case) match that of someone without full awareness of the game. Rikkter also really seemed to want to feel out how others would react to Korabas' reveal, before putting in a half-hearted vote which they later removed. I'll be around later to change if need be. I'm going to be absent for a couple of hours though.

[Okral Lom]

Right, I'm going to be away from the thread for at least three hours possibly more (and therefore might not make it back before deadline). I'm happy with where my vote is at the moment - more convinced about Shadow than Tiamatha or Rikkter at this point. I will try to use the wonders of the mobile internet to keep tabs on the thread (although I can't promise anything). If I need to switch my vote for a lynch I will do so provided I notice that I have to.

[Eloth]

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

Not much to add to Shadow that hasn't been said already. A lot of day 1 they spent in a back and forth with Okral Lom about big dick insinuations (now why wasn't that ever held up as signalling? ).



Shadow's response to Monok being killed. Killer can't help confessing reasoning?

Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 15 April 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

fuck that's a double whammy and mistake.

Don't want to stray into wifom this early in the day, I suck at alting but could killer(s?) have pinged gust and thought he had to go cause he's bloody good or was he on a right track.

Probably because they found his posting irritating. Although I still want to vote for Denul again today. The lynch of Serc did nothing to clear him in my mind.

Below is Shadow's vote for Korabas. The talk about modkilling makes me imagine that Shadow went to PS and asked for Korabas to be modkilled. Now why would a killer do that, as it would automatically end the chances for one of their VCs (as Shadow themselves then noted)? Well, one answer could be that they feared whatever other abilities the warlord Korabas might have and felt it was better to get rid of them as quick as possible then hope that they can wait till the next night to kill them.

Shadow, on 17 April 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

Korabas, on 16 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 16 April 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Out of curiosity Korabas, what's your opinion on this post of Denul's, specifically the stuff about Warlord symps?

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ok so this is the other point I wanted to bring up about mechanics and scum hunting in this game.

PS did retcon the "majority" from the scum VCs as potentially just "parity". So it could be that Kenshiro really is alone, or it could be that he has followers, we don't know. Either way, we only need to eliminate Kenshiro to win.

I do think and have expressed that I think we are too gung-ho to jump on signalling accusations etc, but that is not to say that looking for killers/lead scum via links to/from their followers/partners is not useful and worth doing. Normally!

The problem is, this game has the three gang leaders each of whom may have followers that they know or that know them. The sign-up thread said the game "Contains some variations of typical roles" so there could be any kind of role out there.

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum.

Just something for everyone else to keep in mind. We need to focus on individual behaviours more than potential partner or follower relationships or else there's a good chance we'll wind up just shooting ourselves in the foot.

I've thought about this. It's a good post. Being a gang leader myself, I can't really say I know any of my 'team'. That said, the symp-master relationship outlined above would certainly accommodate a single killer, since any symp-master relationship has essentially lost its meaning. So now we have a whole town team, likely speckled with roles, but our ability to track on-thread symp relationships has been hamstrung. I can't say I've seen this sort of game in the few I've played.

fixed 'have' to 'has'

Well that is a how do you do first thing in the morning isn't it. I don't understand your reasoning revealing yourself like that. Seems that you got all caught up in the moment and blew your load. Kinda surprised that PS didn't modkill you truthfully. But that is probably because if your who you say you are then it would remove a VC condition anyway. This way the town will do it and save him the need to modkill. I see no other choice then to lynch Korbas today.

Vote for Korbas

In this post below, Shadow makes a show of being willing to be the lynch target for the greater good. Someone (Denul?) suggested that Kenshiro might have protections against warlord abilities such as the one Korabas originally had. I find this quite likely, though what those abilities might amount to could be anything. In any case, it may be that Kenshiro would not be afraid of being lynched at least once.

Shadow, on 17 April 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 17 April 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

gee thanks for producing such a helpful lynch list for us. disregarding the fact its entirely based on wifom you've just set yourself up to wifom any lynch/ kill for the rest of the game. This screams scum to me, not helpful townie

Both myself and you are on the to be lynched list. I am willing to be lynched tomorrow. Today we need to lynch Korbas as otherwise scum will be able to do it and retain both of his VC. How it is based on WIFOM. That is a very casual disregard. Do you have a problem with the logic. It seems very clear cut to me. I figure the likely hood that Scum would willingly sacrifice an easier (perceived true) VC in order to be called a PI to be very slim.

From underlined above - Shadow basically just made the exact same post again and expressed his total disinterest. All else being equal I can't tell if he actually believes his logic that his lynch will help us or if he's pulling the standard don't-care-if-lynched bit that always makes me want to lynch that person.

[Shadow]

If you guys are focused on me and not willing to lynch either Tiam or Denul. Then lynch me otherwise scum will continue to use my presence to cloud everything. I doubt that I will be much help to town for the rest of the week. It has started to seriously pile up here at work. So it isn't like removing me will cost town a great town player or anything.

[Denul]

Or he is indeed Kenshiro, has an Amon-style one-time FM jump when he dies, and all this "waaah work is piling up just lynch me I'm so noble" crap is a decoy for when he jumps into a high-poster!