[Alkend]

vote ruse

I'm going to add my weight to this. The first comment. I'm not really here but I am following along, barely.

[Alkend]

Typing from phone, first was meant to be fm.

[Kessobahn]

Ampelas, on 16 April 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Denul 62
Okral Lom 51
Alkend 45
Tiamatha 33
Path-Shaper 25
Eloth 24
Shadow 24
Lock 21
Monok Ochem 18
Kessobahn 15
Rikkter 15
Bek Okhan 14
Korabas 13
Serc 12
Galayn Lord 10
Ruse 10
Ampelas 9



I'll be away for a bit.

For being a filthy low poster, for the "ouch" comment, and for bringing up an FM:

Vote Ruse

So out of interest why not vote for me having been less of a presence than Ruse? I'm not saying do of course, just wondering at your reasoning

@ Amp Because of the FM comment. Why throw that out there when there is no reason to suspect one? Unless he knows something I don't of course.

@ GL It didn't occur to me that the "ouch" comment could also be read as a gloat. Hmmm.


I'd like to see a vote count. I'm not comfortable with a train forming off of my vote. I simply wanted to see Ruse pop in and say something, not necessarily start a full on train.

[Ampelas]

Since I have few minutes spare, there's about 8 3/4 hours left

1 vote Shadow: Tiamatha
1 vote Eloth: Okral Lom
1 vote Denul: Shadow
3 votes Ruse: Kessobahn, Galayn Lord, Alkend

Players not voted: Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Korabas, Lock, Rikkter, Ruse

[Ampelas]

I'll also add I'm not going to be around at timeout, when my vote goes down it will be staying there. I'm going to re-read Ruse and a couple of others

[Ruse]

Okral Lom, on 16 April 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Seriously, why would scum kill someone for being annoying? Thats good for scum, annoying people draw thread attention away from them.

I am firmly in the 'lynched cause he was on to something' camp.

Either that or Monok was a scum FM that jumped.

There have been games where the scum get rid of people in alphabetical order. There have been games where the scum get rid of people from highest post count down. I've seen scum argue that they can't get rid of someone who was onto them because it will make others suspicious, and I've seen scum who will get rid of those that are sniffing around without a second thought. The reasons for Monok getting lynched depend very heavily on the psyche/playstyle of the killer, so while we shouldn't necessarily discard "why was he NKed" evidence, we have to treat it with a heavy dose of WIFOM-based scepticism.

The FM idea shouldn't be discarded out of hand, but it seems unlikely to me. The name of the player in the CF would be the player whose alt the FM stole. I think it's fair to say that MO's playstyle was consistent with what we've seen from GH in the past...(man, I hate meta though)

You pointed out yourself how meta your argument about Gust's play style being consistent with Monok's. Making cases based on meta is stupid. I could spend the whole game swearing and yelling and generally calling people stupid, and that would make me look a lot like Venge. I could post a bunch of spammy stuff and that would make me look a lot like Tatts. Etc. Etc. Etc. You get my idea.

[Ruse]

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Ruse, on 15 April 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

(Please ignore the typical apocalypse convention of vehicles being used, without answering the question "where do they get their gasoline? )

The welcoming party turned out to be a small scouting party on ATV's. Surrounding Kenshiro, an argument ensued as to whether they should kill him and bring his body to their captain, kill him and bring the captain to the body, bring him to the captain and THEN kill him, or as one bright one suggested, kill him, take the body to the captain, and then kill him again. Meanwhile, another member of the party was bouncing about making suggestions and punctuating his ideas with ape-like "Oook Eeek's". It appeared that the others were used to this, and ignored him.

Kenshiro simply walked up to Oook Eeek and plunged both thumbs into either side of his neck. When the goon's head exploded, the others decided that the argument was over and they split.

Kenshiro walked unmolested into the city.


Day One is Over

16 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Monok Ochem, Rikkter, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Tiamatha

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.


3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Shadow
9 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas, Lock, Denul, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Tiamatha, Ampelas, Eloth
1 vote Okral Lom: Serc

Players not voted: Kessobahn, Rikkter, Ruse,


Serc has been lynched. He was Mentalist, and RI.

Monok Ochem is dead. He was Gust Hubb and RI

Ouch, Ment and Gusty in one day. Rough.

Another Gust worshipper? As well as Ment?

This reaction post by Ruse strikes me as odd - why is it so "ouch" and "rough" that it was Ment and Gust? If it had been Macros and Dolmen would your reaction have been "well at least it wasn't Ment and Gust, then we'd really be screwed!" ?

Either Ruse thinks Ment and Gust are superior players to the rest of us, or else this seems to be a feigned emotional reaction, IMO.

Uhm, well, I think given that if Gust is around by the 3rd or 4th Day, he's usually got the entire game figured out, yeah, I'd say that I think he's a good player, and that it was rough that we lost him. As for Ment, it's the first game he's played in a while, it sucks that he got dead so quickly.

Now, really, had I been the one to kill them, would I have 'gloated' on thread? I think it's kind of ridiculous that this argument has picked up any traction.

[Okral Lom]

Eloth, on 16 April 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Uh, watch me as I sniff at a theoretical 7% change that can't actually be applied to the game, and you are still holding onto this shit theory. AND you manage to admit that you're deflecting from Denul. I mean...come on. Everyone else is already looking at other candidates and you're still trying to push us away from Denul. Why?

I've played enough games where well-meaning "Let's look elsewhere"ers are overwhelmed by a tide of "Oh, well we've got to be sure!"s to town's detriment to be subtle about it, that's all.

Anyway, I'm happy with your response (and unlike my mini-case on Korabas earlier, nobody has come running to your defence), so I'll get rid of that vote while I read up.

Remove Vote

[Tiamatha]

of the arguments levelled.at ruse the last is farcical, Ments a good player (or was back in the day) gust has pulled out some sterling performances as well. If Ruses is gloating over their deaths then that stick could be used to beat 4/5 of us, me first if I'm not mistaken.

it seems like a frivolous addendum to a passable case, like you aren't sure and need to pile in anything you can scrape up to make the weight requirements.



as of now I'd behappier with my current vote or switching to Denul (yes, again)

[Ruse]

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

I like the comments on GL from Lock (I wouldn't call it a case ). I think I had already mentioned upthread how GL's posts are few but cut straight to the point with insight. If he is scum he is playing it cool and calculating and it'll be hard to levy anything against him except being too smooth. I'd definitely like to see more interaction from him - right now most/all of his posts look like open comments, not personal responses.


Shadow annoys me, but at this point I can't imagine he is actually scum playing like that.


I took a little dive into Ruse. Really not much there and I've already mentioned the lynch+NK reaction post I find odd. There's also this:

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Seriously, why would scum kill someone for being annoying? Thats good for scum, annoying people draw thread attention away from them.

I am firmly in the 'lynched cause he was on to something' camp.

Either that or Monok was a scum FM that jumped.

Seems like a pretty confident attitude in the first two paragraphs. But if you are so firmly decided, why not vote? Plus you didn't vote yesterday?

Throwing out the FM idea is also all sorts of weird, as many have already commented on. While it's not impossible, us having no other evidence to suggest this makes it a very strange idea for a townie to just toss about. I wouldn't call it fearmongering, just stupidideamongering? Yet, if Ruse is so confident with his lynch candidate (whom he won't vote for), why toss out an uncertain idea like that? So, very inconsistent overall.

I never said I was confident in any lynch candidate. I just said I was confident that Monok was likely killed because he was on to something.

I started playing Devil's Advocate in my head to try to figure out why else he may have died - I firmly believe that there's no way that scum would kill someone who is causing a commotion on thread, that kind of attention keeps attention away from them - and the only thing I could think of was that there was a FM in Monok, he created his cases, then jumped into someone else, thus killing Monok, hoping to point us towards whoever Monok was suspecting.

The idea made sense, as far as I was concerned, so then I started doubting my initial assertion that I figured that Monok's suspects likely needed to be looked into.

Anyway, I still don't think we should discount the possibility of a FM.

[Korabas]

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Ruse, on 15 April 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

(Please ignore the typical apocalypse convention of vehicles being used, without answering the question "where do they get their gasoline? )

The welcoming party turned out to be a small scouting party on ATV's. Surrounding Kenshiro, an argument ensued as to whether they should kill him and bring his body to their captain, kill him and bring the captain to the body, bring him to the captain and THEN kill him, or as one bright one suggested, kill him, take the body to the captain, and then kill him again. Meanwhile, another member of the party was bouncing about making suggestions and punctuating his ideas with ape-like "Oook Eeek's". It appeared that the others were used to this, and ignored him.

Kenshiro simply walked up to Oook Eeek and plunged both thumbs into either side of his neck. When the goon's head exploded, the others decided that the argument was over and they split.

Kenshiro walked unmolested into the city.


Day One is Over

16 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Monok Ochem, Rikkter, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Tiamatha

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.


3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Shadow
9 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas, Lock, Denul, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Tiamatha, Ampelas, Eloth
1 vote Okral Lom: Serc

Players not voted: Kessobahn, Rikkter, Ruse,


Serc has been lynched. He was Mentalist, and RI.

Monok Ochem is dead. He was Gust Hubb and RI

Ouch, Ment and Gusty in one day. Rough.

Another Gust worshipper? As well as Ment?

This reaction post by Ruse strikes me as odd - why is it so "ouch" and "rough" that it was Ment and Gust? If it had been Macros and Dolmen would your reaction have been "well at least it wasn't Ment and Gust, then we'd really be screwed!" ?

Either Ruse thinks Ment and Gust are superior players to the rest of us, or else this seems to be a feigned emotional reaction, IMO.

Uhm, well, I think given that if Gust is around by the 3rd or 4th Day, he's usually got the entire game figured out, yeah, I'd say that I think he's a good player, and that it was rough that we lost him. As for Ment, it's the first game he's played in a while, it sucks that he got dead so quickly.

Now, really, had I been the one to kill them, would I have 'gloated' on thread? I think it's kind of ridiculous that this argument has picked up any traction.

I don't get the gloating angle on Ruse at all. Like you say, why the hell would scum come on thread to gloat? It's just silly. I'm leaning toward a Denul vote at this point.

We have 7ish hours I think.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2.

7 hours and 20 minutes are left.

14 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote Shadow: Tiamatha
1 vote Denul: Shadow
3 votes Ruse: Kessobahn, Galayn Lord, Alkend

Players not voted: Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse

[Okral Lom]

Korabas, on 16 April 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

I don't get the gloating angle on Ruse at all. Like you say, why the hell would scum come on thread to gloat? It's just silly. I'm leaning toward a Denul vote at this point.

We have 7ish hours I think.

Out of curiosity Korabas, what's your opinion on this post of Denul's, specifically the stuff about Warlord symps?

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ok so this is the other point I wanted to bring up about mechanics and scum hunting in this game.

PS did retcon the "majority" from the scum VCs as potentially just "parity". So it could be that Kenshiro really is alone, or it could be that he has followers, we don't know. Either way, we only need to eliminate Kenshiro to win.

I do think and have expressed that I think we are too gung-ho to jump on signalling accusations etc, but that is not to say that looking for killers/lead scum via links to/from their followers/partners is not useful and worth doing. Normally!

The problem is, this game has the three gang leaders each of whom may have followers that they know or that know them. The sign-up thread said the game "Contains some variations of typical roles" so there could be any kind of role out there.

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum.

Just something for everyone else to keep in mind. We need to focus on individual behaviours more than potential partner or follower relationships or else there's a good chance we'll wind up just shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Lock]

I might check in again in a couple of hours, but I also might not be able to, so I'll place my vote down as I definitely won't be around at timeout.


Vote Ruse


Not for the possible gloating or whatever, but for the stuff which I picked out. As I said, out of the three I've looked at closely today, Ruse is the one who quirks the old eyebrow the most. Doesn't rear their head except to make the odd comment, usually either fluff or very general. The times when that hasn't been the case, i.e. to disagree about possible motives behind the killing of Monok, have actually struck me as the most unusual. Why repeatedly make the same statement? More than that, if you disagree in the basis, then I would also expect to see an alternative posited. Ruse has more than once said that Monok was killed because he was "on to something" but without actually expounding upon what they think that might have been.

[Denul]

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

I never said I was confident in any lynch candidate. I just said I was confident that Monok was likely killed because he was on to something.

Uh... exactly? If your reasoning (that "Monok was likely killed because he was on to something") can only be taken one way (that you think I'm the killer) and you say you are confident about it, or that you are "firmly" in that camp, then yes YOU ARE saying that you are confident in your lynch candidate.

Are you not anymore? Why all this pretending not to be?

[Denul]

Also, I would like to point out that the Denul gloating accusation did not come from me. A dismissal of that accusation does not need to autmatically turn your vote onto me, we've had many other cases presented today!

[Ruse]

Are you both just disregarding the posts I made this evening, or is it just me?

[Denul]

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

Are you both just disregarding the posts I made this evening, or is it just me?

I responded to the important part of your response to mine. The rest was delving into the "why would scum kill MO" wifom argument, which I already gave my thoughts on and said I wasn't going to take too far into consideration.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2.

6 hours and 18 minutes are left.

14 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse, Shadow, Tiamatha

8 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.

1 vote Shadow: Tiamatha
1 vote Denul: Shadow
4 votes Ruse: Kessobahn, Galayn Lord, Alkend, Lock

Players not voted: Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Korabas, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Ruse
]

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 16 April 2014 - 11:08 PM

[Denul]

I'm going to bed. Nothing has dissuaded me.

vote ruse