[Kessobahn]

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

Korabas, on 15 April 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

Yeah I agree. I found myself skimming his posts, ignoring most of it except for the chunks of text. At least he had fun. Any thoughts on Shadow at this point?

None at all. I was focusing on Serc and Denul because they were the only viable choices in the time remaining.

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

The paradox behind the Monty Hall problem is one of information theory. The contestant in the game makes an initial guess as to which of the three doors has the car behind it based on limited information. Then the host, who has absolute knowledge of the situation, removes one of his available options. The probability of the contestant being right first time is small, but with the new information gained from one of his options being removed, he has a higher chance if he switches his guess to a different door.


We are in an analogous situation here. We made some early guesses based on incomplete information. Now we have been given some information by PS in the form of the CFs. It is unlikely our initial suspicions were correct, so the higher percentage play is to make new guesses/cases/accusations taking into account the extra information rather than persist with our old ones.

Who is Monty Hall in this analogy?

It was here where I switched OL and Korabas in my mind. Apologies to Korabas.

[Kessobahn]

Denul 62
Okral Lom 51
Alkend 45
Tiamatha 33
Path-Shaper 25
Eloth 24
Shadow 24
Lock 21
Monok Ochem 18
Kessobahn 15
Rikkter 15
Bek Okhan 14
Korabas 13
Serc 12
Galayn Lord 10
Ruse 10
Ampelas 9



I'll be away for a bit.

For being a filthy low poster, for the "ouch" comment, and for bringing up an FM:

Vote Ruse

[Denul]

Ok so this is the other point I wanted to bring up about mechanics and scum hunting in this game.

PS did retcon the "majority" from the scum VCs as potentially just "parity". So it could be that Kenshiro really is alone, or it could be that he has followers, we don't know. Either way, we only need to eliminate Kenshiro to win.

I do think and have expressed that I think we are too gung-ho to jump on signalling accusations etc, but that is not to say that looking for killers/lead scum via links to/from their followers/partners is not useful and worth doing. Normally!

The problem is, this game has the three gang leaders each of whom may have followers that they know or that know them. The sign-up thread said the game "Contains some variations of typical roles" so there could be any kind of role out there.

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum.

Just something for everyone else to keep in mind. We need to focus on individual behaviours more than potential partner or follower relationships or else there's a good chance we'll wind up just shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Eloth]

Ok, more Okral to address...

Okral Lom, on 16 April 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Right, as I trailed last night I thought I would have a look at Eloth today. For the most part I like the way he is playing - he asks questions to show he is engaged and is willing to exhort players to contribute more. Man after my own heart! Having said that, I was bothered a bit by this pair of posts:

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

I will laugh so hard if I get to SH and there is, in fact only a killer.

As someone unfamiliar with Pratchett's work, was there any meaning to MO's eeking and ooking, or were those just generic monkey noises?

Is this all you are going to say about the discussion surrounding you? I assumed you would have some sort of analysis or rebuttal. With Denul's vote, he's pushed the lynch in your favor over his own - 4 votes Serc, 3 votes Denul now, if I'm not mistaken. We need what, 9 to lynch? And only like 5 hours left on the clock. Depending on who shows up (and who doesn't - Alk basically said he isn't moving his vote), we may have problems with numbers. But it's going to be interesting if Denul's vote is what swings the lynch away from him onto you.

Right now I'm inclined to vote Serc - I'm hoping it will clear up things with Denul, in addition to all of the signalling confusion. I also don't like the lack of response from you, Serc. Are you around or what?

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

Shadow, on 15 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

After reading and rereading the thread now. The things that stand out is Denul. He was a middling poster until Alkend started to pressure Serc. Then he exploded into the scene. While there was talk about scum having more then one member there was absolutely no talk from anyone about there being paired killers until Denul brought it up. I think that was a slip up. Yes I know there are a bunch of potential sympage things going on with Serc. I like Denul for being scum.


Vote Denul

Ok, talk about cross-posting this game... Back to 4 votes each. Where did Denul bring up paired killers? I had to skim some of the longer Denul posts during my reread.

In the first one he states his current thoughts on the impending Denul vs Serc decision, which seem reasonable. But when Shadow drops the vote on Denul, his immediate reaction is to consider the vote count. So was that reasoning in the first post for real, or just a front to cover the fact that he's looking to vote for whichever candidate is an easier lynch?

He compounds this by holding his vote until the end so that he can hammer:

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Ok, time is up and I've said my piece, so I'm gonna vote. This should be the hammer if I'm not mistaken.

Vote Serc

Overall his play seemed rather opportunistic there. He waited to see which way the wind was blowing and then dropped down a vote to finish it off.

There is also the matter of Monoch Ochem. I posted some reasoning for why I didn't like what he was doing on Day 1 and saw two subtly different reactions from Eloth and BO. BO mentioned my case directly and responded to it with his thoughts and agreement. Eloth, on the other hand, never acknowledges the case's existence, but instead starts to nit-pick MO's posts. I can't really think of a good reason why he would behave in that fashion.

For now I'm going to lay down a vote.

Vote Eloth

I want him to explain his behaviour around the end of the day yesterday, and I want to hear some thoughts from him about players that aren't making headlines. So far his play has been notable for only really talking about players who are already in the spotlight - safe, trending topics. Is that a case of keeping hidden in the crowd? Does he have something to say on subjects that other players haven't already chimed in on? What does he think about, say, Rikkter? Or Galayn Lord or Bek Okhan?

See highlighted/underlined above.

First - did you just not read the first post you quoted? They were made 4 minutes apart. I was already concerned that at an even split with very little time left, Denul's vote was pushing the balance away from his own train, which seemed suspicious. Then the votes evened out again just as I was posting.

Second - I feel like a broken fuckin record, but MO's posts after he dropped the RP not only had factual inaccuracies (as in, saying something happened that didn't, e.g.) but also he misread the case on Serc after he had already made that same case on Serc earlier in the day. Sorry, that get's a "WTF" from me and I'm gonna point it out.

Third - As to the hammer, I almost put my vote in the post before I actually voted but decided against it - and if I would have, the cross post would have made Ampelas the hammer. And if anyone remembers how Eloth fucked up the day 1 hammer with a stupid 20 minute crosspost in a recent game, I decided to avoid making that mistake. When time ran out, I voted like I said I would.

Finally - Way ahead of you. My initial response right now is to look at our lowest posters - Amp and GL. It looks like Lock has already gone through GL and someone else (I need to read those cases more carefully), so I'm going to look at Amp as I have the time. I am getting busier than I had hoped at the moment.

Also, as a sort of aside, I find it interesting that Serc voted you before he was lynched and that Alkend also commented that he didn't like your vote for Serc. It isn't much at the moment but it caught my eye during my reread. And you also can't do math.

[Eloth]

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Eloth, on 16 April 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Yeah. What he said.

@Eloth I'm more interested in Korabas for bringing it up in the first place. Superficially it looks like a good logical argument to go away from Denul. I think Okral just fell into that.

I'm not saying we should laser in on Denul. But dismissing him out of hand via an invalid argument rubs me the wrong way.

Where did Korabas bring it up? Sorry, I'm wading through pages of WIFOM at the moment.

Shit. That's my mistake. It was Okral that brought it up, not Korabas. http://forum.malazan...ost__p__1119686

Ok, that is what I thought too.

[Eloth]

Okral Lom, on 16 April 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Eloth, on 16 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

No, he's saying you can't do math and don't understand probability. God. I'm going to break it down for you.

You don't even need to go into the details of the Monty Hall problem to see this (by the way for whoever asked, Monty Hall was a game show host). Just do some basic math. If it's day 1 and I'm RI with 16 players in the game, for the sake of argument let's assume 1 scum to make the math easier, as it represents the original problem better. The odds of you lynching scum are 1/15 - a 6.67% chance. Move to day 2, 14 players alive with two RIs gone. Now your odds of lynching scum (at random) are 1/13 - a 7.69% chance. Not much of an increase, is it?

Now let's actually take the details of playing with doors and goats and all that. Let's take Denul as the "door" we choose based on your comments. Now we get two CFs from players that are not Denul. Assuming X number of doors (players) total and p number number of doors opened (player CFs), this is the math of how the probability of switching your "door" will change your chances of success:

 	(N - 1)
-----------------
(N * (N - p - 1))

So starting with N = 15 players and p = 2 CFs, plug in the numbers and you'll get a whopping .078. Assuming you are switching to another random "door", your odds of successfully choosing another player besides Denul as scum increase by 7.8%. That is almost nothing. If you factor in the actual game and how people are playing and what your personal opinion is, that number gets modified a whole fucking lot. (For anyone who doesn't believe me, try plugging in N = 3 and p = 1 to simulate the original Monty Hall problem and you will get the correct answer of 2/3).

So no, Okral, the Monty Hall problem does not apply at all with so many players in the game. The fact that you are still pursuing this line of thought despite Kesso's rebuttal means either a) you don't understand the math, or you are deflecting from Denul. Either way, it gives me very little faith in you at the moment.

Pff, I understand the maths fine. A ~7% improvement in your odds is nothing to be sniffed at. Do you think Denul's play lifts his % chance of being scum by significantly more than that? It certainly didn't move the needle that much for me.

And yes, I suppose I am deflecting from Denul, insofar as I would like other candidates to be looked at today. This is not a permanent state of affairs, but I am making my motives plain here.

Uh, watch me as I sniff at a theoretical 7% change that can't actually be applied to the game, and you are still holding onto this shit theory. AND you manage to admit that you're deflecting from Denul. I mean...come on. Everyone else is already looking at other candidates and you're still trying to push us away from Denul. Why?

[Lock]

The final person on my list for today: Ruse.


***crickets chirping***














***chirp chirp chirp***










Yeah, there's not much. All the day 1 posts are nothing one-liners. Ruse has been a bit more involved today. From my personal perspective, the two posts below stick out:

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

Korabas, on 16 April 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

That's not a terrible idea. The only problem is that it relies on Monok being killed for irritating the thread "and nothing more". I generally think that scum would like their kills to serve a specific function. If that is the case, either Monok was a threat and on the right track, or scum want us to go after Denul. In fact, Monok's posts would have been useful to scum if only for the confusion created by his RP.

I have to agree with this. Killers rarely kill just because someone is being annoying. The annoying ones are good to keep around, there's more drama on thread that way.

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 16 April 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

Alright, here is my current thinking. The premise below is based on a complete supposition, so may be entirely inaccurate. Similarly, the narrowing down of the suspect pool is largely based on reasoning rather than evidence - but this is the track I've decided to follow for now. In any event, I do think the scenario is a plausible one - plausible enough to be worth investigating anyway.

So, the theory is: Monok was killed because of the irritating RP, and nothing more

lay out your other theory now for us, I want some more wild theorizing to wash my lunch down with. Granted night one kills can be as random as day one lynchs, but to pick off one of the best players we currently have on pure luck by wasting an 'annoying' player who was clearly irritating the majority of the thread? Don't buy it lock, try harder.

Back on thread I'm still.waiting for shadow to pop up, and at lunch time I'm gonna see.if I can read through him in isolation, still not happy with how Denul has faded into the mist and OL's work intrigues me, could be a good catch on the posts.

Seriously, why would scum kill someone for being annoying? Thats good for scum, annoying people draw thread attention away from them.

I am firmly in the 'lynched cause he was on to something' camp.

Either that or Monok was a scum FM that jumped.

Ruse is not the only one to question my thinking, a fair few have, mostly fairly. But Ruse (and Tiam) are the only ones to question it repeatedly before it even gets started rather than going off to do their own thing. I do despise critiquing where there's nothing of value being added from the the critic themselves.

In addition, it gets me to thinking whether there's a further motive behind it. Plenty has been written today, yet Ruse has only really responded to this particular point. So does Ruse want to disparage something which leads into a closer look at them among others?

[Korabas]

Right I'm here for a bit.

Eloth, on 16 April 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Eloth, on 16 April 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Yeah. What he said.

@Eloth I'm more interested in Korabas for bringing it up in the first place. Superficially it looks like a good logical argument to go away from Denul. I think Okral just fell into that.

I'm not saying we should laser in on Denul. But dismissing him out of hand via an invalid argument rubs me the wrong way.

Where did Korabas bring it up? Sorry, I'm wading through pages of WIFOM at the moment.

Shit. That's my mistake. It was Okral that brought it up, not Korabas. http://forum.malazan...ost__p__1119686

Ok, that is what I thought too.

I was so confused by this.

Whoever it was collecting my posts, I love the style. I tend to use it late game to get a feel for the players. The only thing I need to add to that is about the case on shadow. With the early vote I just wanted to pull Shadow into the game early in the day, so if he comes up clean(ish) I would have time to switch to a more likely target.

So Denul is back, but I find it a tiny bit suspicious that he keeps popping up whenever summoned. I won't overplay this, considering we're on similar schedules. That means whenever I'm around to ask, he's around to answer. Something to watch for now.

I need to go over the whole back and forth with the Monty Hall discussion. I personally could not give a fuck about the actual problem, but the player interaction might give us something.

[Rikkter]

I'm having a rough time doing anything today other than actual work, apologies

[Korabas]

Well, having quickly looked at the posts, I'm not sure there is anything to the Monty Hall discussion between Okral, Kesso, and Eloth.
At this point I'm going to

remove vote


for now. Not saying shadow has cleared his name, I just don't think he has enough on thread to make a very strong case. He hasn't really added any more fuel to the fire since my vote either. Denul is also an option I'm not entirely against. Ruse could be a decent low post vote.

[Ampelas]

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Denul 62
Okral Lom 51
Alkend 45
Tiamatha 33
Path-Shaper 25
Eloth 24
Shadow 24
Lock 21
Monok Ochem 18
Kessobahn 15
Rikkter 15
Bek Okhan 14
Korabas 13
Serc 12
Galayn Lord 10
Ruse 10
Ampelas 9



I'll be away for a bit.

For being a filthy low poster, for the "ouch" comment, and for bringing up an FM:

Vote Ruse

So out of interest why not vote for me having been less of a presence than Ruse? I'm not saying do of course, just wondering at your reasoning

[Ampelas]

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ok so this is the other point I wanted to bring up about mechanics and scum hunting in this game.

PS did retcon the "majority" from the scum VCs as potentially just "parity". So it could be that Kenshiro really is alone, or it could be that he has followers, we don't know. Either way, we only need to eliminate Kenshiro to win.

I do think and have expressed that I think we are too gung-ho to jump on signalling accusations etc, but that is not to say that looking for killers/lead scum via links to/from their followers/partners is not useful and worth doing. Normally!

The problem is, this game has the three gang leaders each of whom may have followers that they know or that know them. The sign-up thread said the game "Contains some variations of typical roles" so there could be any kind of role out there.

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum.

Just something for everyone else to keep in mind. We need to focus on individual behaviours more than potential partner or follower relationships or else there's a good chance we'll wind up just shooting ourselves in the foot.

I hate to say I told you so but

Ampelas, on 15 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just caught up and what the hell is going on?

I could interpret half the posts on the first few pages as signalling should I so desire. All you idiots wise up - we don't need to signal our Warlord who we are so cut it out. The only people on thread remotely considering signalling should be symps, every one else of you is painting a bull's-eye on someone else for Kenshiro.

[Denul]

Ampelas, on 16 April 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ok so this is the other point I wanted to bring up about mechanics and scum hunting in this game.

PS did retcon the "majority" from the scum VCs as potentially just "parity". So it could be that Kenshiro really is alone, or it could be that he has followers, we don't know. Either way, we only need to eliminate Kenshiro to win.

I do think and have expressed that I think we are too gung-ho to jump on signalling accusations etc, but that is not to say that looking for killers/lead scum via links to/from their followers/partners is not useful and worth doing. Normally!

The problem is, this game has the three gang leaders each of whom may have followers that they know or that know them. The sign-up thread said the game "Contains some variations of typical roles" so there could be any kind of role out there.

Looking for Kenshiro based on player interactions like a basic symp-master interaction is not going to work. If Kenshiro has any allies, there could be four similar partnerships out there with only one being scum. If Kenshiro is on his own after all, there could be three out there and none are scum.

Just something for everyone else to keep in mind. We need to focus on individual behaviours more than potential partner or follower relationships or else there's a good chance we'll wind up just shooting ourselves in the foot.

I hate to say I told you so but

Ampelas, on 15 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just caught up and what the hell is going on?

I could interpret half the posts on the first few pages as signalling should I so desire. All you idiots wise up - we don't need to signal our Warlord who we are so cut it out. The only people on thread remotely considering signalling should be symps, every one else of you is painting a bull's-eye on someone else for Kenshiro.

You did indeed. Forgot about that post.

[Galayn Lord]

Korabas, on 16 April 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

So Denul is back, but I find it a tiny bit suspicious that he keeps popping up whenever summoned. I won't overplay this, considering we're on similar schedules. That means whenever I'm around to ask, he's around to answer. Something to watch for now.

I need to go over the whole back and forth with the Monty Hall discussion. I personally could not give a fuck about the actual problem, but the player interaction might give us something.

Yep I am too and I have my thoughts about you and ruse. More Ruse than you as I think others are building to it in a weird route via OL.

Ok I have sat down and realize two things stand out from me in the past two pages of Day 2:

1. Lock has me Korabas and Ruse set in as players not really present towards the end when MO started to nose dive and players started to grill him out of his RPing.

2. I think this is a sound premise but needs to be built up.

I can't say much for myself. I have a new job, one that sees me at an office daily, running it while closing my previous contract so yes I will be on to build my opinion in this time slot. I was present however just couldn't say I cared for the back and forth between Denul and MO. Serc vote was on its way and had nothing more to say so I turned in for the night.


Now Korabas I think is already addressed in depth as was I.

I do start to think Ruse stands out for me. here:

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Seriously, why would scum kill someone for being annoying? Thats good for scum, annoying people draw thread attention away from them.

I am firmly in the 'lynched cause he was on to something' camp.

Either that or Monok was a scum FM that jumped.

obviously he suggested a mechanic that was unwarranted. Serc did something similar and I'm careful to assume this was more poorly chosen speculation than scummy.

What has my hackles up is this in conjunction with this:

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Seriously, why would scum kill someone for being annoying? Thats good for scum, annoying people draw thread attention away from them.

I am firmly in the 'lynched cause he was on to something' camp.

Either that or Monok was a scum FM that jumped.

and the clincher? he was not on when Night came along. infact Ruse avoided being tied to the train entirely and avoided addressing cases directly opposed to Monok. I'm in the Gust fan club, (we have T-shirts and everything) but this?:

Denul, on 16 April 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Ruse, on 15 April 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

(Please ignore the typical apocalypse convention of vehicles being used, without answering the question "where do they get their gasoline? )

The welcoming party turned out to be a small scouting party on ATV's. Surrounding Kenshiro, an argument ensued as to whether they should kill him and bring his body to their captain, kill him and bring the captain to the body, bring him to the captain and THEN kill him, or as one bright one suggested, kill him, take the body to the captain, and then kill him again. Meanwhile, another member of the party was bouncing about making suggestions and punctuating his ideas with ape-like "Oook Eeek's". It appeared that the others were used to this, and ignored him.

Kenshiro simply walked up to Oook Eeek and plunged both thumbs into either side of his neck. When the goon's head exploded, the others decided that the argument was over and they split.

Kenshiro walked unmolested into the city.


Day One is Over

16 players alive.
Alkend, Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Monok Ochem, Rikkter, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Tiamatha

9 votes to lynch, 8 to go to night.


3 votes Denul: Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Shadow
9 votes Serc: Alkend, Korabas, Lock, Denul, Galayn Lord, Okral Lom, Tiamatha, Ampelas, Eloth
1 vote Okral Lom: Serc

Players not voted: Kessobahn, Rikkter, Ruse,


Serc has been lynched. He was Mentalist, and RI.

Monok Ochem is dead. He was Gust Hubb and RI

Ouch, Ment and Gusty in one day. Rough.

Another Gust worshipper? As well as Ment?

This reaction post by Ruse strikes me as odd - why is it so "ouch" and "rough" that it was Ment and Gust? If it had been Macros and Dolmen would your reaction have been "well at least it wasn't Ment and Gust, then we'd really be screwed!" ?

Either Ruse thinks Ment and Gust are superior players to the rest of us, or else this seems to be a feigned emotional reaction, IMO.

Quite the gloat IMO.

Denuls MO hate aside if underlined was read as scum this comes through as a bit smug and unuseful.

The ducks line up as far as I'm concerned and if I weigh all this against Korabas and myself I see more cause to Vote Ruse than anyone else currently under scrutiny.

Vote Ruse

Edit: crucial addition of "too"

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 16 April 2014 - 07:28 PM

[Denul]

Ampelas, on 16 April 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 16 April 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Denul 62
Okral Lom 51
Alkend 45
Tiamatha 33
Path-Shaper 25
Eloth 24
Shadow 24
Lock 21
Monok Ochem 18
Kessobahn 15
Rikkter 15
Bek Okhan 14
Korabas 13
Serc 12
Galayn Lord 10
Ruse 10
Ampelas 9



I'll be away for a bit.

For being a filthy low poster, for the "ouch" comment, and for bringing up an FM:

Vote Ruse

So out of interest why not vote for me having been less of a presence than Ruse? I'm not saying do of course, just wondering at your reasoning

Personally I would be on board with a Ruse vote because from what little he has posted he has had inconsistent attitudes and doesn't seem as genuinely pro-town (ie stupidideamongering). In comparison, Amp, you have had a couple useful posts but it's more that you don't have any marks against you in my book yet. That gets a low-poster pass on day 2, at least in favour of lynching scummier low-posters, though it won't still be a pass later on.

Kesso didn't make any such arguments against Ruse and my own and now Lock's panning of Ruse were after Kesso voted. So I am curious to hear Kesso answer your question, too.

[Denul]

Add GL to the list of post-Kesso panners, then!

GL, I think you accidentally quoted the same Ruse post twice when you meant to quote different ones?

[Lock]

Galayn Lord, on 16 April 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

The ducks line up as far as I'm concerned and if I weigh all this against Korabas and myself I see more cause to Vote Ruse than anyone else currently under scrutiny.

Vote Ruse

Whilst I am instinctively hesitant to concur with one of my trio, I do have to agree that of the three Ruse appears to warrant a vote more than either you or Korabas (as I think I intimated at the bottom of my post on Ruse).

Ruse is where I would currently vote.

[Denul]

We've got about a dozen hours left or so by my count. I'll be on and off for the rest of the evening, but may not be able to get online much tomorrow morning so I will vote before I log off tonight. I'd like to hear Ruse come on and rebutt the accusations against him. If he doesn't, that is where my vote will be going (unless something else revelatory comes out of course).

[Galayn Lord]

Damimit I meant to quote this in the second paragraph. I think my minds hitting fatigue!

Ruse, on 16 April 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Shadow, on 16 April 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Unless you know of a FM in the game that kind of speculation only servers to cloud the thread and allows scum to hide. Frankly if you know for fact that there is a FM in this game that is information that town should have. If you do not have said information and instead are merely speculating, then stop.

Wow, here I am actually participating and I'm being told to stop.

Reasoning here is Ruse defends supplying a FM when clearly informed its not helpful.

[Tiamatha]

back on for a little while before the gym, if it is circa 12 hours I'll definitely be around for end of day.

a skim read to catch up, I'm hesitant to follow a GL train, as its premise of low posting can be attributed to him as well (albiet as mentioned, his posts are all high content) and it does scream a little of 'there three names mentioned, which one can I sink?'

need more reading time