[Eloth]

Bek Okhan, on 06 April 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 31 March 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

It is the 31st of March, 2016.

New York, the meeting room of the UN Security Council.

Five pens sign at the same time. Smaller countries with non-permanent seats sign one by one, in alphabetical order. The funds for the Covert Response and Forward Team iare solidified. An organisation and a headquarters is established. Personell is found, and while everyone in it spies on each other, SpyCRAFT, as it becomes known, starts of well enough.


Just a quick drive-by: I wouldn't read much into the five pens. There are five permanent members of the UN Security Council

It is now the 31st of March, 2019.

Hong Kong. A field team is set to take out Hau Fat, a very persuasive Triad kingpin who controls half of the politicians in the city. The Ming Mastermind, as the tabloids call him. Opium, murder, stock fraud, human trafficking.

Let the games Beijing. Begin, I mean.

.

[Denul]

Bek Okhan, on 05 April 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

Honestly my initial read on Denul was that he was mirroring scum. Now it seems he has put his neck on the block to prove he is town and either Okral or myself are town. I really cant make any calls till I hear Okral Lom answer to my question.

Once he does I will know whether my attitude to Denul is fair and know that we just simply read the game differently. If I hear the right answer from Okral Lom I may be voting one way if the wrong answer I will vote another.

If Okral is scum then I figure we have found support scum? if he isn't well Denul has me and Ok setup really nicely.

My biggest fear is both Okral Lom and myself are town. A lynch on all 3 of us plus NKs wins scum the game. Denul is it explicit that one of either Lom or myself is scum? or have you just inferred that logic after your read of the game?

If you guys lynch me it will prove I'm town and then we get an NK, who would you lynch after I'm gone? Okral Lom or Denul? My money says you'd lynch Okral Lom. That gives us the scum in our camp and town can move on to the next factions scum should Denul be legit.

This was my logic based on the faulty numbers that Monok Ochem had put up. I have since retracted my suspicions. I have no information that would lead me to believe one way or the other that either of you are scum or town. I'm still suspicious of you, but my reasoning for it is more gut now than from the math it was based on before. Right now, I've no flippin' idea where anyone stands.

[Denul]

Bek Okhan, on 06 April 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 April 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 05 April 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

Honestly my initial read on Denul was that he was mirroring scum. Now it seems he has put his neck on the block to prove he is town and either Okral or myself are town. I really cant make any calls till I hear Okral Lom answer to my question.

Once he does I will know whether my attitude to Denul is fair and know that we just simply read the game differently. If I hear the right answer from Okral Lom I may be voting one way if the wrong answer I will vote another.

If Okral is scum then I figure we have found support scum? if he isn't well Denul has me and Ok setup really nicely.

My biggest fear is both Okral Lom and myself are town. A lynch on all 3 of us plus NKs wins scum the game. Denul is it explicit that one of either Lom or myself is scum? or have you just inferred that logic after your read of the game?

If you guys lynch me it will prove I'm town and then we get an NK, who would you lynch after I'm gone? Okral Lom or Denul? My money says you'd lynch Okral Lom. That gives us the scum in our camp and town can move on to the next factions scum should Denul be legit.

Objection. Assuming facts not in evidence.

Double Objection
Not as yet in evidence and not assumed as facts

Reading it through, should Denul be legit that's just the next way I think we'd look at it. Atleast I would.

One scum per faction was mentioned earlier right? No ones debunked that and I am thoroughly convinced we atleast got GL. Scum hidden per faction would make sense. PS said Hau Fat was a different type of gangster. I'd assume this to be a unique way of going about things.

Okral Lom I just realized could answer his question intentionally to lie to us. Okral is in a corner and Denuls ability though hard to credit gives us scum should it explicitly say so.

I can at the very least assume the best bet for scum may hide amongst us three. I've read up on Denul alot and this looks like a good scum move but if read through the way Korabas has then the tactic backfires a bit, we still lose two town but we get 100% scum in the end. I Need Okral Lom to speak. His perspective is the missing piece and if he holds it back I'm voting on him to place pressure.

The 1 scum per faction thing DOES NOT work! There are at least 4 factions that we know of, including ours Bek, and Rikkter is claiming to be from a 5th faction. If there's 1 scum per faction, that's 5 or 6 scum, and that does NOT make any frikkin sense. The game would lean way too much towards scum. Stop assuming THEORIES are FACTS!

[Denul]

Denul, on 06 April 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 06 April 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

Eloth, on 06 April 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 05 April 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

Honestly my initial read on Denul was that he was mirroring scum. Now it seems he has put his neck on the block to prove he is town and either Okral or myself are town. I really cant make any calls till I hear Okral Lom answer to my question.

Once he does I will know whether my attitude to Denul is fair and know that we just simply read the game differently. If I hear the right answer from Okral Lom I may be voting one way if the wrong answer I will vote another.

If Okral is scum then I figure we have found support scum? if he isn't well Denul has me and Ok setup really nicely.

My biggest fear is both Okral Lom and myself are town. A lynch on all 3 of us plus NKs wins scum the game. Denul is it explicit that one of either Lom or myself is scum? or have you just inferred that logic after your read of the game?

If you guys lynch me it will prove I'm town and then we get an NK, who would you lynch after I'm gone? Okral Lom or Denul? My money says you'd lynch Okral Lom. That gives us the scum in our camp and town can move on to the next factions scum should Denul be legit.

Objection. Assuming facts not in evidence.

Double Objection
Not as yet in evidence and not assumed as facts

Reading it through, should Denul be legit that's just the next way I think we'd look at it. Atleast I would.

One scum per faction was mentioned earlier right? No ones debunked that and I am thoroughly convinced we atleast got GL. Scum hidden per faction would make sense. PS said Hau Fat was a different type of gangster. I'd assume this to be a unique way of going about things.

Okral Lom I just realized could answer his question intentionally to lie to us. Okral is in a corner and Denuls ability though hard to credit gives us scum should it explicitly say so.

I can at the very least assume the best bet for scum may hide amongst us three. I've read up on Denul alot and this looks like a good scum move but if read through the way Korabas has then the tactic backfires a bit, we still lose two town but we get 100% scum in the end. I Need Okral Lom to speak. His perspective is the missing piece and if he holds it back I'm voting on him to place pressure.

The 1 scum per faction thing DOES NOT work! There are at least 4 factions that we know of, including ours Bek, and Rikkter is claiming to be from a 5th faction. If there's 1 scum per faction, that's 5 or 6 scum, and that does NOT make any frikkin sense. The game would lean way too much towards scum. Stop assuming THEORIES are FACTS!

And then I read the next few posts. I'm glad someone else pointed out Bek's error.

At any rate, I'm certainly interested to see how things will go forward as of tomorrow. I'd also really like to hear from Okral Lom.

[Path-Shaper]

Regarding the five pens: there's five permanent seats with veto rights on the UN Security Council, which this is a reference to.

[Bek Okhan]

@Denul: For Fucks sake! I am not claiming theories as facts. I am following actions to their nearest possible conclusions! I am trying to wrap my head around what CFs are telling us. I did the excercise to divine how this power reveal of yours would serve or hurt scum. And read the damn thread before flying to your own self desired conclusions!

I am actually tired of this nonsense. You read your "alleged" Lv5 powers blatantly to see me as scum, ignoring on thread content and the full possibility Okral Lom, one of the least readable players, might be scum instead. You have always read my content and my use of my one ability with tunnel vision. You read arguments I build against scumish players as scummy arguments despite evidential validity. You twist reveals blatantly to have others peg me as scum. Did you even scrutinize the likes of Eloth? Korabas built some logical querries into her actions beginning of day and I had a few misgivings of my own.

The Responses Eloth gives are decent, Eloth does not then make it a mission to hunt me down. Eloth engages opinions and reviews suspects and scenarios. Eloth cross checks my posts and weighs them. Have you even addressed Eloths request you list your feel for other players? Last I checked I wasn't solely responsible for the threads development. All your supposed rereads and I have yet to see you come up with any quote by quotes on anyone else. Are you banking everything I am somehow the last scum in game? because last I checked you didn't buy Tiam as scum so in your head theres at the very least two more scum out there?

I do not appreciate your bias and the time you use cross examining me based on your "gut feeling" will see one or both of us lynched and its damn irritating if you really are town (see the book of Tiam). For all my theoretical leaps I have not made claims of knowing anything for certain about you or Eloth. I do not trust the past actions from either of you but In my opinion current thread content is beginning to tell.

Denul, of us two, you are the one that's pointed actual fingers at me with pure conviction and now "turns out" you didn't even have an explicit support on that assumption. You're the one that acted as though your theory was fact, possibly seeing all three of us lynched on baseless accusations from MO's??? read? I don't know, you acted on the assumption scum hid in amongst the group you revealed and apparently are part of, thats all I'm getting about your actions. The rest I'm really struggling with.

Honestly the only thing stopping me from voting you is how much I think Okral Lom needs to confirm. If you are town you're hurting us bad man.


Edit @Denul

This post has been edited by Bek Okhan: 06 April 2014 - 06:00 PM

[Bek Okhan]

Path-Shaper, on 06 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Regarding the five pens: there's five permanent seats with veto rights on the UN Security Council, which this is a reference to.

Thanks PS

I guess we go too far assuming factions. EU are confirmed as a group and Lock and Denul have made connection claims. I officially retreat my attitude back to this only. previous guesses I'll throw in the back burner and await developments.

[Rikkter]

Path-Shaper, on 31 March 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Second rule: no reveals of nationalities or of powers you do not yet have.

Path-Shaper, on 06 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Regarding the five pens: there's five permanent seats with veto rights on the UN Security Council, which this is a reference to.

China (Asia)
France (EU)
Russia
UK (EU)
US (US)

Denul, and Denul only, the rest of you (Bek and Okral) don't even come close to answering this question in any way till after Denul does;

Yes or no - does your PM leaves you unable to say your faction is Russia on thread?

I suspect that is skipping a little close to modkill grounds so do check with PS first if you want to

[Denul]

Rikkter, on 06 April 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 31 March 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Second rule: no reveals of nationalities or of powers you do not yet have.

Path-Shaper, on 06 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Regarding the five pens: there's five permanent seats with veto rights on the UN Security Council, which this is a reference to.

China (Asia)
France (EU)
Russia
UK (EU)
US (US)

Denul, and Denul only, the rest of you (Bek and Okral) don't even come close to answering this question in any way till after Denul does;

Yes or no - does your PM leaves you unable to say your faction is Russia on thread?

I suspect that is skipping a little close to modkill grounds so do check with PS first if you want to

You're basically asking me to confirm or deny a nationality, which is against PS's rules, so I'm not going to answer this question for fear of being modkilled.

[Rikkter]

Denul, on 06 April 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 06 April 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 31 March 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Second rule: no reveals of nationalities or of powers you do not yet have.

Path-Shaper, on 06 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Regarding the five pens: there's five permanent seats with veto rights on the UN Security Council, which this is a reference to.

China (Asia)
France (EU)
Russia
UK (EU)
US (US)

Denul, and Denul only, the rest of you (Bek and Okral) don't even come close to answering this question in any way till after Denul does;

Yes or no - does your PM leaves you unable to say your faction is Russia on thread?

I suspect that is skipping a little close to modkill grounds so do check with PS first if you want to

You're basically asking me to confirm or deny a nationality, which is against PS's rules, so I'm not going to answer this question for fear of being modkilled.

Denying it isn't...

[Denul]

Bek Okhan, on 06 April 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

@Denul: For Fucks sake! I am not claiming theories as facts. I am following actions to their nearest possible conclusions! I am trying to wrap my head around what CFs are telling us. I did the excercise to divine how this power reveal of yours would serve or hurt scum. And read the damn thread before flying to your own self desired conclusions!

I am actually tired of this nonsense. You read your "alleged" Lv5 powers blatantly to see me as scum, ignoring on thread content and the full possibility Okral Lom, one of the least readable players, might be scum instead. You have always read my content and my use of my one ability with tunnel vision. You read arguments I build against scumish players as scummy arguments despite evidential validity. You twist reveals blatantly to have others peg me as scum. Did you even scrutinize the likes of Eloth? Korabas built some logical querries into her actions beginning of day and I had a few misgivings of my own.

The Responses Eloth gives are decent, Eloth does not then make it a mission to hunt me down. Eloth engages opinions and reviews suspects and scenarios. Eloth cross checks my posts and weighs them. Have you even addressed Eloths request you list your feel for other players? Last I checked I wasn't solely responsible for the threads development. All your supposed rereads and I have yet to see you come up with any quote by quotes on anyone else. Are you banking everything I am somehow the last scum in game? because last I checked you didn't buy Tiam as scum so in your head theres at the very least two more scum out there?

I do not appreciate your bias and the time you use cross examining me based on your "gut feeling" will see one or both of us lynched and its damn irritating if you really are town (see the book of Tiam). For all my theoretical leaps I have not made claims of knowing anything for certain about you or Eloth. I do not trust the past actions from either of you but In my opinion current thread content is beginning to tell.

Denul, of us two, you are the one that's pointed actual fingers at me with pure conviction and now "turns out" you didn't even have an explicit support on that assumption. You're the one that acted as though your theory was fact, possibly seeing all three of us lynched on baseless accusations from MO's??? read? I don't know, you acted on the assumption scum hid in amongst the group you revealed and apparently are part of, thats all I'm getting about your actions. The rest I'm really struggling with.

Honestly the only thing stopping me from voting you is how much I think Okral Lom needs to confirm. If you are town you're hurting us bad man.


Edit @Denul

I still believe whole heartedly that the ability to block someone's vote is not a useful town ability. That reveal of yours, combined with the information I got with my level 5 ability, is what has oriented me on you. Town's main tool to win a town vs scum game is the lynch vote. Blocking a vote is an ability that scum would be more likely want 90% of the time. I still stand by this assertion, though have stepped back from you a bit because another part of my case against you was that you're one of 3 members of my nationality, and before doing the math, I was agreeing with Monok's theory that one of each nationality must be scum. With those two pieces of evidence, I was fairly certain you were scum. Now that we've realized there are likely at least 5 nationalities, and given Monok's math didn't work out, I've pulled back my vote. That doesn't mean that I don't still think you're scum, but I wanted to take more time to figure out some mechanics and math.

At any rate, you're really good at saying a whole lot of words without actually saying anything. You accuse me of twisting your words, then turn around and the exact same. And deny it or not, in the posts I was quoting, you were basically saying things along the lines of GL MUST be scum. You're probably right about that, but there's no REAL confirmation of that, specially given the weekend's developments re: how a scum might CF.

Bek, whether you like it or not, I still think you're scum. You've done nothing to convince me otherwise, temper tantrum or not.

[Denul]

Rikkter, on 06 April 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Denul, on 06 April 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 06 April 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 31 March 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Second rule: no reveals of nationalities or of powers you do not yet have.

Path-Shaper, on 06 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Regarding the five pens: there's five permanent seats with veto rights on the UN Security Council, which this is a reference to.

China (Asia)
France (EU)
Russia
UK (EU)
US (US)

Denul, and Denul only, the rest of you (Bek and Okral) don't even come close to answering this question in any way till after Denul does;

Yes or no - does your PM leaves you unable to say your faction is Russia on thread?

I suspect that is skipping a little close to modkill grounds so do check with PS first if you want to

You're basically asking me to confirm or deny a nationality, which is against PS's rules, so I'm not going to answer this question for fear of being modkilled.

Denying it isn't...

Yes, it is - PS said explicitly that we cannot say anything on thread that would imply our nationality. I'm gonna go dig that post up for you.

[Denul]

Tapper, on 03 April 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 03 April 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Lock, on 03 April 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 03 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

slammed for the next hour at work, at tea time will elabourate.

could the survivng RI from the EU and the surviving RI from Asia make themselves known like today, thus we can wrap this up

From the OP

Second rule: no reveals of nationalities or of powers you do not yet have

Reading this again doesn't this just mean you cannot reveal powers you dont have or nationalities you dont have?

I like to scrutinize rules, part of my job. Mr path shaper sir, could you clear this up for us all thanks.

No nationalities, period.
Powers; once you have (used) a power, you can reveal it.

I think that's pretty clear.

[Rikkter]

Damn.

[Korabas]

So since 2 of the 3 suspects are here, can I clarify the situation?

Denul claims that his ability allowed him to narrow scum down to two people: Bek and Okral. Thus, either Denul is scum trying for a 2 day distraction scheme or either Bek or Okral are scum.

If I understand you correctly Denul, you said there is 1 scum among the 2 of them, correct? If that is the case, a hit on scum would PI both you and the other non-lynched individual.

That being said, if you are pulling our collective leg, we need to lynch you and then who knows about the other two.

Am I on task right now?

[Rikkter]

Korabas, on 06 April 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

So since 2 of the 3 suspects are here, can I clarify the situation?

Denul claims that his ability allowed him to narrow scum down to two people: Bek and Okral. Thus, either Denul is scum trying for a 2 day distraction scheme or either Bek or Okral are scum.

If I understand you correctly Denul, you said there is 1 scum among the 2 of them, correct? If that is the case, a hit on scum would PI both you and the other non-lynched individual.

That being said, if you are pulling our collective leg, we need to lynch you and then who knows about the other two.

Am I on task right now?

That was seemingly based on the assumption that there was one of each faction as scum.

[Korabas]

It's household nap time, so I'm going to work up a case on OL. Be around for a bit.

[Korabas]

Rikkter, on 06 April 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Korabas, on 06 April 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

So since 2 of the 3 suspects are here, can I clarify the situation?

Denul claims that his ability allowed him to narrow scum down to two people: Bek and Okral. Thus, either Denul is scum trying for a 2 day distraction scheme or either Bek or Okral are scum.

If I understand you correctly Denul, you said there is 1 scum among the 2 of them, correct? If that is the case, a hit on scum would PI both you and the other non-lynched individual.

That being said, if you are pulling our collective leg, we need to lynch you and then who knows about the other two.

Am I on task right now?

That was seemingly based on the assumption that there was one of each faction as scum.

So I misread when Denul said it was his ability then?

[Korabas]

Denul, on 04 April 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

*snip extraneous quotes*

BUt that wouldn't actually do anything! It would just make it go to Night and then the killers would kill and the game would end the exact same way. It's a useless ability for a town player to have, as far as I can tell. Perhaps I'll eat my words when I get to SH and see what else is actually going on, but I just don't see a vote block being a town ability.

That being said, my level 5 ability has given me information that makes me believe that one of either you or Bek are scum, and my money's on Bek, specially if he has, as he has said, a vote blocking ability.

This.

[Rikkter]

Korabas, on 06 April 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 06 April 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Korabas, on 06 April 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

So since 2 of the 3 suspects are here, can I clarify the situation?

Denul claims that his ability allowed him to narrow scum down to two people: Bek and Okral. Thus, either Denul is scum trying for a 2 day distraction scheme or either Bek or Okral are scum.

If I understand you correctly Denul, you said there is 1 scum among the 2 of them, correct? If that is the case, a hit on scum would PI both you and the other non-lynched individual.

That being said, if you are pulling our collective leg, we need to lynch you and then who knows about the other two.

Am I on task right now?

That was seemingly based on the assumption that there was one of each faction as scum.

So I misread when Denul said it was his ability then?

Wasn't his ability the one that told him who was in his faction?