[Korabas]

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Korabas, on 08 April 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 08 April 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

Korabas, on 08 April 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

Huh. Interesting. So no one thinks that OL's sudden splurge of posting is suspicious? Nor his avoidance of even talking to me about my case against him? And everyone is hush hush this close to the end of the game?

Interesting.

I am getting the feeling that we are throwing in the towel.

give me a bit of time, i have a few things to say but i may not get to it for an hour or so

M'kay. I am going to have to go to bed soon anyways, and may or may not be awake for the EOD. Hence why I'm a little pissy. I could see a no-lynch to buy us time, but I'd at least like a discussion over it rather than a foot-drag to the finish line of the day.

Calling for no-lynch and your resistance to the very idea of lynching Kesso is veeeeeeerrrry interesting.

Knew somebody would bring that up. I am most definitely not calling for a no lynch. If I was even to consider it, I'd want a discussion (which I think is very clear in my post). Also, if this conversation about Kesso was like 2 days ago, maybe I'd be more willing to cavalierly throw my vote in (not likely though, not without a review of his case).

And really, no cases? Really? This close to Dday? Should we all just stop talking and plead the fifth now? Confusion or not, talking is all we have to go on, and without consensus, we ain't going nowhere honey.

Edit: not calling for. Very crucial distinction.

This post has been edited by Korabas: 08 April 2014 - 02:35 AM

[Korabas]

Well, I may be lynched tomorrow for this, but I am sticking to my guns on OL. I still can't believe we are just following a "low poster" case (if you want to elevate it to that) this late in the game, without discussion, consensus; just a couple of dropped votes here and there. You may have a point about HO-game style, and Kesso could fit the bill, but I don't like how this is going down. Smells bad to me.

I won't hold up the lynch tomorrow morning if it is stalling and I return before EOD, but I want my protests to be noted just in case people get chatty after I go to bed. Night all.

[Ampelas]

ok got things settled, a few beers in me, time to go to work

first up

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

I think I like my vote. Pretty much everyone has come onto the thread since I laid down on Kesso. Everyone has ignored it completely, when, if inno, a kesso train bandwagon could have been easily jumped on and made into "todays legit lynch" by scum. No reaction tells me scum are trying to avoid it in hopes it's just swept under everything else.

you, sir, have wifomed your way into this vote, and i shall wifom back at you!

so you have no argument for your vote before this, korbas made that pretty obvious. now you are saying that scum could have easily jumped onto the kesso train because they know he's inno and low posters make great targets. right? well not only does that plan not always work out but what if scum is smarter than you are?

what if scum knows kesso is inno and so has DELIBERATELY left him alive because hes contributed so little that it would be a waste of a kill, and by keeping him alive it keeps our attention focused on him even more, making him the perfect lynch candidate. scum don't kill off lynchable people, right? isn't that the rule, exceptions notwithstanding? by your plan, if 3 scum and 6 votes to lynch, they would really have to be careful to push the lynch enough without hopping on all at once (although with 6 votes to lynch, they would have...at minimum...nevermind.).

maybe scum are not throwing their votes around, knowing that with no viable cases and dday approaching that we must lynch, well, lets string up the low poster! it's not a bad tactic and has worked well and often, but it's as flawed as it is successful. easy enough for anyone to hop on that train at the end of a long day with no other targets. hiding in plain sight. without more information, we are literally saying we think no one who is posting is scummy enough to be lynched, so we have to lynch the ONE guy who is still pretty much checked out at this point of the game. i don't know if that's the best play or not.

now we have a strong push for kesso and it may end up being him solely because we cannot get anyone to agree on a different target. but that doesn't mean we didn't get played into lynching another ri.

see? i actually started to believe my argument more than yours, but my gut tells me that i'd prefer a kesso lynch over no lynch today. as for my top pick, i still need to see...

[Ampelas]

also, lock...

you are one of the remaining players who has not really received any heat at all. you got that one odd vote from tiam on day 1... i wonder why he did that when he saw the gl train going full speed if he was truly inno? perhaps a final signal at his master, knowingly or unknowingly watching his scum buddy get lynched? and then we have to lynch him because his play is so scummy, and he admits it. takes the fall maybe? gets out of the way?

i could go on but it's just speculation right now. i still think that vote from tiam was weird, though. and korbas has knocked down your "case" on kesso fairly well. so maybe you've been coasting along until now, when scum can jump onto the poor innocent kesso because hes a filthy low poster and is probably crouching kesso hidden scum!! right? i mean, you said it yourself. great idea right? and it still just might work, because kesso is scummy enough and we are in a jam at the moment.

anyway, just wanted to let you know that i'm watching you even if you think you are cleared. to be totally frank my hope is that you are town because that's where things will be better for me when looking at this whole mess, and your play has been ok. i'm just saying, you know

[Lock]

I put forward an idea, because there is nothing compelling on anyone else at the moment. And this is somehow my fault?

I can concede that, yes, it is not a real case on Kesso, and yes, I can concede I sort of wifomed myself there. So, Rikkter gave us all this extra time, where the hell do you guys want to vote? I'll switch to OL if that's what people prefer, but I dont see how voting him is somehow more robust. Does it even give us information on someone else?

MO, where are you on this? OL? Bueller?

[Ampelas]

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

I put forward an idea, because there is nothing compelling on anyone else at the moment. And this is somehow my fault?

I can concede that, yes, it is not a real case on Kesso, and yes, I can concede I sort of wifomed myself there. So, Rikkter gave us all this extra time, where the hell do you guys want to vote? I'll switch to OL if that's what people prefer, but I dont see how voting him is somehow more robust. Does it even give us information on someone else?

MO, where are you on this? OL? Bueller?

nah i'm not saying anything is your fault just yet now...no ruffled feathers, buddy. i am in the middle of putting all of my thoughts down so that is on its way.

as for mo and ol, who fuckin knows. kesso? anyone? no sir.

also at least you admit the wifom, i expected you to fight it. i like you more now.

[Lock]

Ampelas, on 08 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

also, lock...

you are one of the remaining players who has not really received any heat at all. you got that one odd vote from tiam on day 1... i wonder why he did that when he saw the gl train going full speed if he was truly inno? perhaps a final signal at his master, knowingly or unknowingly watching his scum buddy get lynched? and then we have to lynch him because his play is so scummy, and he admits it. takes the fall maybe? gets out of the way?

i could go on but it's just speculation right now. i still think that vote from tiam was weird, though. and korbas has knocked down your "case" on kesso fairly well. so maybe you've been coasting along until now, when scum can jump onto the poor innocent kesso because hes a filthy low poster and is probably crouching kesso hidden scum!! right? i mean, you said it yourself. great idea right? and it still just might work, because kesso is scummy enough and we are in a jam at the moment.

anyway, just wanted to let you know that i'm watching you even if you think you are cleared. to be totally frank my hope is that you are town because that's where things will be better for me when looking at this whole mess, and your play has been ok. i'm just saying, you know

Your suspicion is totally understandable. I wish I had something more concrete to give people about anyone at all, kesso or whoever. I put down the kesso vote to see what would happen, and when nothing did, I thought "hmm".

Where do you stand, specifically, on people now? Which case do you find most compelling? Do you have more than one suspect you'd place higher than Kesso?

[Lock]

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

I'll switch to OL if that's what people prefer, but I dont see how voting him is somehow more robust. Does it even give us information on someone else?

Requoting myself here to ask you another question.

Maybe it makes the most sense to vote someone who will give us the most information about others, even if they themselves turn out inno. Because at this point, that might be the only useful tool we might be able to pull out. Kesso doesn't really do that. If he's scum, he puts the spotlight on Korabas, but if he's inno it doesn't really help us either way.

[Ampelas]

thinking as i go...

Alkend, on 02 April 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

Just poking my head in here to read up a bit before I go to bed. Couple thoughts that come to mind:

1 - the flavor text of GL being a "henchman" is interesting. One would assume Hau Fat will be in this game. I doubt Hau Fat himself would be paired with "henchman", so my current line of thinking is that there are two henchmen, probably paired/lovers, as well as Hau Fat in a leader role. No symps. So then the henchman probably know Hau Fat but he doesn't know them. This jives fairly well with GL and the possible signals/hints you guys have been looking at from him. GL and his partner would be trying to setup a partners code they could use later in a fake inno-pair reveal, and at the same time they would be trying to signal Hau Fat.

2 - Why the EU in his CF? Maybe it would come into play (and so would everyone else's) when we hit level 5 and turn into factions (or however that is supposed to work).

a good post from drek before she was untimely offed, particularly all of that first point. i think this is the first point at which someone actually suggests on thread that hau fat is in the game, no? i could be wrong, i mostly went back through the weekend and focused less on day 1 for time's sake. drek is a master game designer. without getting too meta, i think her comments here are worth keeping in mind and at least using as a possible frame work for the game. what if there were two henchmen, hau fat - no symps? that would mean tiam is inno and so are all the other cf'd ri's and that hau fat and one of his henchmen still lurk among us. it is a unique way of thinking about the scum setup because it removes symps/confirms cfs and gives a robust structure to the end game.

still questions of course - can only hau fat kill? are his henchman filling the "symp" role but with more real power (actions)? if so, we should again revisit why no one died night 1 - town had no way to guard anyone yet, based on the OP, so either the killer could not kill due to mechanics like leveling or they showed up too late...who was that again? was that denul who got the major modkill pass? someone else has mentioned this theory before me and it only recently started making more sense. i will continue with more specifically on denul ol and rikkter at this point i think

[Ampelas]

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

I'll switch to OL if that's what people prefer, but I dont see how voting him is somehow more robust. Does it even give us information on someone else?

Requoting myself here to ask you another question.

Maybe it makes the most sense to vote someone who will give us the most information about others, even if they themselves turn out inno. Because at this point, that might be the only useful tool we might be able to pull out. Kesso doesn't really do that. If he's scum, he puts the spotlight on Korabas, but if he's inno it doesn't really help us either way.

i agree with this actually. i am going to lay out some half-assed cases here but i'm only voting kesso if there's no other way right now, there is no case on him or reason to vote other than he's not around. lynching someone like OL or denul right now, after the eloth/bek explosion, would tell us a good amount more than kesso, assuming they both come up ri

[Ampelas]

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 08 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

also, lock...

you are one of the remaining players who has not really received any heat at all. you got that one odd vote from tiam on day 1... i wonder why he did that when he saw the gl train going full speed if he was truly inno? perhaps a final signal at his master, knowingly or unknowingly watching his scum buddy get lynched? and then we have to lynch him because his play is so scummy, and he admits it. takes the fall maybe? gets out of the way?

i could go on but it's just speculation right now. i still think that vote from tiam was weird, though. and korbas has knocked down your "case" on kesso fairly well. so maybe you've been coasting along until now, when scum can jump onto the poor innocent kesso because hes a filthy low poster and is probably crouching kesso hidden scum!! right? i mean, you said it yourself. great idea right? and it still just might work, because kesso is scummy enough and we are in a jam at the moment.

anyway, just wanted to let you know that i'm watching you even if you think you are cleared. to be totally frank my hope is that you are town because that's where things will be better for me when looking at this whole mess, and your play has been ok. i'm just saying, you know

Your suspicion is totally understandable. I wish I had something more concrete to give people about anyone at all, kesso or whoever. I put down the kesso vote to see what would happen, and when nothing did, I thought "hmm".

Where do you stand, specifically, on people now? Which case do you find most compelling? Do you have more than one suspect you'd place higher than Kesso?

also you put the kibosh on my fake little fantasy suspicions there almost too well got me looking the other way already...

very smooth...

[Lock]

It was, in fact, Denul who magically avoided modkill.

[Ampelas]

denul:

Denul, on 03 April 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 03 April 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

haven't read, quick post.

I think there's 3 factiosn, US, EU and Asia

each has 3 people, 2 RI, 1 bad guy then hu fat at the top, that gives us 13 and an easy way to tag the bastards. (need to check op to confirm this theory, annd confumr it was 13 players.

If this is really how things work, then I'm even more convinced that Bek is scum.

That being said, I really like this case right here:

Monok Ochem, on 03 April 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Eloth, on 02 April 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

Alkend, on 02 April 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

Just poking my head in here to read up a bit before I go to bed. Couple thoughts that come to mind:

1 - the flavor text of GL being a "henchman" is interesting. One would assume Hau Fat will be in this game. I doubt Hau Fat himself would be paired with "henchman", so my current line of thinking is that there are two henchmen, probably paired/lovers, as well as Hau Fat in a leader role. No symps. So then the henchman probably know Hau Fat but he doesn't know them. This jives fairly well with GL and the possible signals/hints you guys have been looking at from him. GL and his partner would be trying to setup a partners code they could use later in a fake inno-pair reveal, and at the same time they would be trying to signal Hau Fat.

2 - Why the EU in his CF? Maybe it would come into play (and so would everyone else's) when we hit level 5 and turn into factions (or however that is supposed to work).

Huh? Where did I miss that this is or will become a faction game?

here we are. vote Eloth

this is still based on a crazy monkey theory, hear me out.

Alkend post (quoted.by eloth) was what first made me think she was RI, here interpretation of her pm being similar.to mine, ergo same role. its the reason I PI'd them, I.covered it with the pressure kn GL reason to see if any other players dropped a line I could work with.


I only twigged on Eloths non understanding when hunting for this post by Alkend (eventually searching for the word faction, finding the post I made following it then tracking back, blegh)

To hell with Beks disagreement with my theory on layout. I like it, 3 unrelated henchmen (glorified symps) and the top dick. Beks going to get scrutiny when I get to the airport and can open the big screen. Long time typing on phone, expecting cross posts

first we see here that denul is going out of his way to agree with people who think others are scummy but provides little of his own input and seems willing to put his vote wherever....much like gl was on day 1. he thinks bek is realllllllly scummy but he also just LOVES the case on eloth - two ri's who ended up killing each other only recently. how tragic that was.

also, if we follow logic that drek laid out, denul's description of scum actually isn't too far off from that. in fact it's close enough to be almost just right but wrong enough to make him seem like he genuinely didnt' know. also he makes the henchmen seem less threatening - great plan, make scum seem less scary - but never lays out a case on bek himself. he repeats multiple times that he doesn't believe bek's ability reveal - but that's it. can't even muster up more than a reply to bek with any kind of content in it. and he does this until bek digs a deep enough hole and then puts his vote down.

Denul, on 03 April 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 03 April 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 03 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Denul, on 03 April 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 03 April 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Tiamatha is dead. He was René Artouille, an EU spy (RI) and Khellendros

Yeah, I hate to say I told you so, but....

but what?

but "he told you so," i'm sure. denul, wtf? there was a lot of heat on tiam, his reveal about fucking around on day 1 made him look suspicious, he didn't respond to my questions and didn't point out scum - he was a clear target. what made you so sure he was town, again?

Basically, I felt it would have been a silly move for a 2nd scum to basically do the exact same thing as GL did during Day 1 - i.e. try to inflate the post count quickly. I mean, one scum doing that wasn't terribly surprising, but I just felt it would have been too dangerous a move for a 2nd scum to do it as well. I don't know why he was a 'clear' target, though I understand why he was 'a' target. I put my vote down on him because keeping him around would only hurt town what with everyone being so certain that he MUST be scum - when so many people are aimed at one person, keeping them around tends to cause those people to put on blinders to a lot of the rest of the thread, and wonder why there was so much push back on his vote, etc.

underline mine. so first denul wifoms around about what scum might or might not have done. then he basically states that his reasons for voting tiam weren't based on any of his play on day 1 or admitting to misleading everyone on thread on purpose or anything except just getting a lynch and NOT wanting to be THAT GUY who said HAY, LETS THINK A MINUTE and then got stuck with being labeled as defensive and scummy. paint a pretty picture? denul votes tiam to avoid suspicion. how clever of him to tell us so.

Denul, on 03 April 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 03 April 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

vote blocking does seem odd for town role

Specially given that we were told that we were all RI's - lynches are our only way to kill off the killers, why would we have a power to block votes, thus preventing a lynch?

is denul fucking crazy? i addressed this somewhere, the post is around here. this whole post is fucked up. first - "specifically give that we were told we were all RI's" - what does this even mean? how does he KNOW that everyone was told they were specifically "RI"? that is a weird thing to even say.

but second, and maybe more importantly, how, oh how, can it be that he completely neglects the fact that town players are all going to get a one-time use ability that could potentially include a kill? we already saw a suicide vig from a supposed ri (i suggested the possibility of it in an earlier post, actually..). so denul is ignoring major aspects of the game mechanics here to push for bek's lynch, which he continues to try to do.

Denul, on 03 April 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Yeah, sorry, I don't believe your little 'reveal' to be completely honest, and, really, the vote blocking ability is not an ability I see town having for any reason - it's basically useless for a townie to be able to block a vote unless he's certain of a scum and it's D-Day, but even then... It just doesn't strike me as an ability town would have.

Furthermore, you're either willfully ignoring ability text, or PS posts...

I think you're lying - you slipped and now you're trying to make yourself seem unimportant.

vote Bek

so denul does not believe bek's reveal because bek seems to be confused about ps posts (And yeah, that is partly true) and because his ability doesn't seem townie...well we KNOW now that that argument doesn't hold water, we've seen a vote block and a suicide vig on two apparent RIs and anyone who thinks two scum are going to reveal their abiltiies and kill each other is crazy. but denul didn't know this at the time...

the vote is really made legit by the constant pressure denul has been putting on bek, not by the strength of his reasoning. bek was putting out better cases (on korbas?) than denul was (someone point out if denul ever made a case and i missed it plz). i don't know, i can see the bek vote if i follow his posts with my own eyes and thoughts, but if i follow denul's i see a forced and hopeful vote turned lynch.

tl;dr ---

denul shows up post-modkill day 2, there is no NK night 1, he pushes hard for bek's lynch after bek's reveal without any real content, relying on pressure instead, and says several times that his votes are based on what other people think about the lynch targets and what other people think about him. sounds like a dude trying desperately to stay alive after missing the first fucking day of the game. one of my top choices for scum atm.

[Lock]

Ampelas, on 08 April 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

denul shows up post-modkill day 2, there is no NK night 1, he pushes hard for bek's lynch after bek's reveal without any real content, relying on pressure instead, and says several times that his votes are based on what other people think about the lynch targets and what other people think about him. sounds like a dude trying desperately to stay alive after missing the first fucking day of the game. one of my top choices for scum atm.

Who was the first to suggest that the scum didn't have a kill until leveling up? Do you remember?

For some reason, I never put the "denul no modkill" together with "no NK night one".

This is pretty damning, although I really hate using a suspiciously potential deliberate mod oversight as a reason to vote someone. But if Denul is the Boss, Tappers hands would have been tied.

[Lock]

Tiamatha, on 01 April 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

The no kill is also interesting. I can't imagine that scum didn't have an NK.

Eloth, on 01 April 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 April 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

The no kill is also interesting. I can't imagine that scum didn't have an NK.

Well, if we start with the assumption that strength goes up with levels, then there's a good chance the person with the the NK was GL. 'Henchman'.

Rikkter, on 01 April 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 April 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

The no kill is also interesting. I can't imagine that scum didn't have an NK.

Conversely I can see that they don't till a level is reached. I would rather that they went into Night without having reached that level and indeed, in night 1 they were at level 1, level 2 was only reached with the start of day 2. Did they get something else at level 1?

Although, since all our abilities are one-shot I am wondering if scum abilities are similarly based - get a NK at 250 posts, 400 posts, 500 posts etc (note descending series to allow for loss of players)

Here it is. Tiam brings up the lack of kill, Eloth and Rikkter respond with Rikkter suggesting that leveling up might be necessary.

[Ampelas]

more denul:

the tiam train ---

Path-Shaper, on 03 April 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

1 vote for Monok Ochem (Tiamatha)
7 votes for Tiamatha (Monok Ochem, Bek Okhan, Denul, Rikkter, Korabas, Kessobahn, Alkend)

"Oooooooooooooooh, René!!" the waitress crooned, holding a portly man of middle age in a tight embrace.
"Not now, my love, I am urgently needed!"
"Can you not wait?" she tightened her arms, curling a leg around his waist.
"Careful honey, we are on..."
"... on the brink of eternal delight, yes, my darling," she moaned as she leapt up, showering his bald spot in kisses, wrapping her legs around him.
".... the edge of a balcony," he finished lamely, as they fell backwards, fourty stories down.
.
Tiamatha is dead. He was René Artouille, an EU spy (RI) and Khellendros

Everyone is now level 5.

it is now night.

denul gets on middle of the way. bek and alkend have turned up RI - leaving rikkter and mo on one hand, with less suspicion, and the scummy low poster kesso and denul over here, then korabas kind of in the middle, making good cases as he goes but not causing too many waves to get lynched either.

Denul, on 02 April 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 02 April 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Denul, on 02 April 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 02 April 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

@ Denul: Keep reading. hope you see the logic behind that as you continue. scum wanted lethal powers and Day 1 level one wouldn't work for them. we shooting for level 5 as we speak so post up!

So as far as I can read, you've completely 180'd on your opinion about leveling up, but that's not supposed to be suspicious?

I think it's possible, also, that Galayn Lord was voting for you to distance himself from you. I'm still finishing up the reread, I want to see what the other cases are about.

How have I 180'd? I wanted a low post Day 1. Day 2 would be a safe drive for 600 posts needed to get to level 5 and we have our info as to where scum started so we can gauge new levels between 1 and 5 probably help scum. as we are already well into that we might aswell push for level 5 in earnest. its all there in Rikkters post I'll find it for you.

So we're basing this on conjecture, then? I mean, there's merit to what Rikkter has said, but you're ready to just believe him? Base your strategy on him?

uh actually it seemed popular opinion on thread was with rikkter's analysis and push for lvl 5 at this point. what more convinicing would a town player need? posting up to lvl 5 isn't a total game "strategy" - we saw day 1 we couldn't even stay under level 1 if we were trying, so why sit around at levels meaningless to town but possibly important to scum? it's lvl 5 or bust, and denul's disagreement sounds like really bad accusation of bek for agreeing. it's really, really weak, actually.

Denul, on 04 April 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Lock, on 04 April 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Yeah, I think that was a good move. Also, it seems to me that that is a very "town-like" ability, so that makes me feel better about him.

Agreed - extending a Day to help us get a lynch IS a very town-like ability, unlike stopping someone from voting.

lock posts this - not impossible, it certainly does seem like a town ability, i said so myself - but denul hops right along asap by agreeing with SOMEONE ELSE, again, instead of just saying what he thinks, and even further uses this to push the lynch on bek again by saying bek's ability is "less town" than adding 24 hours to the day. scummy.

Denul, on 04 April 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 04 April 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Perhaps the 13th player is a rogue unaffiliated element, or works in conjunction with one of the other factions (I think 4 x 3 groupings) - or the 13th has one element active in each faction (which I still don't want to start using exept as a convenient label) - that would certainly be worthy of the rating 7

There would need to be some different VCs in effect, right?

Potentially... I'm thinking player # 13 is Hau Fat, and has something akin to the Godfather role, a possibility that has been mentioned.

Anyway, I know how many people are in my faction and who they are, and 4 x 3 groupings seems the likely design, unless the 'factions' are not balanced, which could be the case given the game is still considered a town vs scum game. In fact, considering Tapper made it clear that the game would remain a town vs scum, I doubt that there are individual VCs. Should still be eliminate all scum for town, and reach parity with town for scum.

denul echoes both alkend and ol here, no original thoughts of his own - hau fat and the godfather role, keeps talking like he has contributed at all. he knows how many people are in his faction....

this really bothers me because we have later discovered and confirmed that nationality has nothing to do with faction and that the numbers game being played by denul and others was all just bullshit. i don't how much denul played into the whole thing but his involvement alone is suspicious. so despite this, he says he knows who is in his faction like its important...and like HE is important almost, enough to stay alive, but not important enough to get killed by scum. hmm. or maybe he's just scum and knows how many henchmen he has? he gets to tell the truth and keep playing the fake number balance game at the same time.

[Ampelas]

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 April 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

The no kill is also interesting. I can't imagine that scum didn't have an NK.

Eloth, on 01 April 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 April 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

The no kill is also interesting. I can't imagine that scum didn't have an NK.

Well, if we start with the assumption that strength goes up with levels, then there's a good chance the person with the the NK was GL. 'Henchman'.

Rikkter, on 01 April 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 April 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

The no kill is also interesting. I can't imagine that scum didn't have an NK.

Conversely I can see that they don't till a level is reached. I would rather that they went into Night without having reached that level and indeed, in night 1 they were at level 1, level 2 was only reached with the start of day 2. Did they get something else at level 1?

Although, since all our abilities are one-shot I am wondering if scum abilities are similarly based - get a NK at 250 posts, 400 posts, 500 posts etc (note descending series to allow for loss of players)

Here it is. Tiam brings up the lack of kill, Eloth and Rikkter respond with Rikkter suggesting that leveling up might be necessary.

this is an interesting case study. first, we see tiam and eloth cf as ri. rikkter's leveling strategy was a success, as far as it can be considered, i suppose....

but let's look at these three posts, they are good -

tiam - thinks there's no way scum doesn't have an NK night 1. this is most logical, simplest, fits with occams razor (whoever has a chubby for that one this game), matches almost every other game. always odd to see night 1 without an nk.

eloth - actually, eloth's statement makes no sense. it's like the first and second halves are divided. first, henchman doesn't sound like the head honcho who has the kill ability. even if he was, suggesting that he would need to also level it up before using it isn't even logical since he got lynched before night even started, rendering his level totally irrelevant. the way that gl played made him a top lynch target, and my humble opinion is that the only scum with a kill probably isn't going to play that way day 1.

rikkter - rikkter goes off on some speculation about how scum get NKs (don't buy it) but he does say something very interesting. we DID reach level 1 before the lynch and night fell. so theoretically, tiam could be right and the NK is just unlocked at lvl 1 - but why did no one die? what other abilities would a scum use so early on in the game besides a kill, especially knowing that town have NO abilities yet?

the real question is - why did no one die night 1? it's possible a scum with a guard action accidentally guarded his master, i suppose, if that was unlocked at lvl 1. it's possible that the kill needed more levels before unlock. it's possible the killer was lynched (but unlikely based on his cf). and it's also possible the killer just simply wasn't around and so didn't submit an action at all. that certainly seems like the most logical option to me...and even more logical since we have someone who fits that bill perfectly by not showing up until day 2 and being given a pass on what would normally be a modkill. i like denul less and less the more i dig up.

[Ampelas]

Lock, on 08 April 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 08 April 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

denul shows up post-modkill day 2, there is no NK night 1, he pushes hard for bek's lynch after bek's reveal without any real content, relying on pressure instead, and says several times that his votes are based on what other people think about the lynch targets and what other people think about him. sounds like a dude trying desperately to stay alive after missing the first fucking day of the game. one of my top choices for scum atm.

Who was the first to suggest that the scum didn't have a kill until leveling up? Do you remember?

For some reason, I never put the "denul no modkill" together with "no NK night one".

This is pretty damning, although I really hate using a suspiciously potential deliberate mod oversight as a reason to vote someone. But if Denul is the Boss, Tappers hands would have been tied.

i think this is most certain - if anything, the game would have ended very quickly if the top scum was modkilled day 1 and ruined the game, so tapper may have been forced to allow it. however, too much meta (the speculation on who denul really is and why he was allowed to live), but what can be used is convincing (denul missing day 1 and no NK on night 1 seems like a no brainer).

[Ampelas]

quickly -

my read on korbas -

played fairly middle of the road, but also has made good cases throughout the game. seems like a solid player, i have no reason to suspect him at this time or either not enough read on him to know any better. however i think his cases put him leaning towards town

[Ampelas]

denul's reveal:

Denul, on 04 April 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 04 April 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Denul, on 04 April 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 03 April 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

haven't read, quick post.

I think there's 3 factiosn, US, EU and Asia

each has 3 people, 2 RI, 1 bad guy then hu fat at the top, that gives us 13 and an easy way to tag the bastards. (need to check op to confirm this theory, annd confumr it was 13 players.

So I've been running a lot of my theories on this breakdown of the game, because I had agreed with it initially... but now I look at it, it doesn't make any sense. 3 factions of 3 people plus 1 extra scum would be 10 players, and there were 13.

4 factions of 3 people with 1 individual scum would work with the math. That being said, if it worked out the way that MO said, that would mean 5 scum. That seems a little much.

This is making me doubt my assumption about Bek, now.... Gah!

Just a drive by whilst dinner cooks to say 4 town factions, minimum. I figure 5 factions of 2 and 3 scum. Now who was claiming to be the 3rd of a faction as no time to check?

I know for a fact that there are 3 members in my faction including myself, so this can't be true.

his ability is to know who is on his...faction? ok second here. first, ps has been very careful never to confuse nationality with faction but everyone at this point is playing the faction numbers game that has nothing to do with town or scum. what i don't like about this is that his ability is actually really useless - how does it help to know who is what nationality as you (especially when they start talking about recruitment and changing nationalties) - the only possible thing it could do is allow you to use cfs more effectively, since we are not allowed to reveal our nationality on thread but several people have hinted at it (they may be lying, you know). tbh, this ability doesn't seem town or scum - it seems like a bit of a waste. if nationalities can change, it's a total waste. so why reveal it? why would it even be in the game?

well...maybe he's just telling the truth. him and his 2 scum buddies.

he also sublty jabs at bek here, because bek was the one claiming to be the 3rd of a faction and denul is now saying he is a liar - and bek cf'd RI. so denul's ability somehow allowed him to either know bek's nationality was the same as his, making bek a liar, or he was using the numbers game to scare people into beliving him. or he was using the truth to push at bek - always an effective tool.

Denul, on 06 April 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 06 April 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

@Denul: For Fucks sake! I am not claiming theories as facts. I am following actions to their nearest possible conclusions! I am trying to wrap my head around what CFs are telling us. I did the excercise to divine how this power reveal of yours would serve or hurt scum. And read the damn thread before flying to your own self desired conclusions!

I am actually tired of this nonsense. You read your "alleged" Lv5 powers blatantly to see me as scum, ignoring on thread content and the full possibility Okral Lom, one of the least readable players, might be scum instead. You have always read my content and my use of my one ability with tunnel vision. You read arguments I build against scumish players as scummy arguments despite evidential validity. You twist reveals blatantly to have others peg me as scum. Did you even scrutinize the likes of Eloth? Korabas built some logical querries into her actions beginning of day and I had a few misgivings of my own.

The Responses Eloth gives are decent, Eloth does not then make it a mission to hunt me down. Eloth engages opinions and reviews suspects and scenarios. Eloth cross checks my posts and weighs them. Have you even addressed Eloths request you list your feel for other players? Last I checked I wasn't solely responsible for the threads development. All your supposed rereads and I have yet to see you come up with any quote by quotes on anyone else. Are you banking everything I am somehow the last scum in game? because last I checked you didn't buy Tiam as scum so in your head theres at the very least two more scum out there?

I do not appreciate your bias and the time you use cross examining me based on your "gut feeling" will see one or both of us lynched and its damn irritating if you really are town (see the book of Tiam). For all my theoretical leaps I have not made claims of knowing anything for certain about you or Eloth. I do not trust the past actions from either of you but In my opinion current thread content is beginning to tell.

Denul, of us two, you are the one that's pointed actual fingers at me with pure conviction and now "turns out" you didn't even have an explicit support on that assumption. You're the one that acted as though your theory was fact, possibly seeing all three of us lynched on baseless accusations from MO's??? read? I don't know, you acted on the assumption scum hid in amongst the group you revealed and apparently are part of, thats all I'm getting about your actions. The rest I'm really struggling with.

Honestly the only thing stopping me from voting you is how much I think Okral Lom needs to confirm. If you are town you're hurting us bad man.


Edit @Denul

I still believe whole heartedly that the ability to block someone's vote is not a useful town ability. That reveal of yours, combined with the information I got with my level 5 ability, is what has oriented me on you. Town's main tool to win a town vs scum game is the lynch vote. Blocking a vote is an ability that scum would be more likely want 90% of the time. I still stand by this assertion, though have stepped back from you a bit because another part of my case against you was that you're one of 3 members of my nationality, and before doing the math, I was agreeing with Monok's theory that one of each nationality must be scum. With those two pieces of evidence, I was fairly certain you were scum. Now that we've realized there are likely at least 5 nationalities, and given Monok's math didn't work out, I've pulled back my vote. That doesn't mean that I don't still think you're scum, but I wanted to take more time to figure out some mechanics and math.

At any rate, you're really good at saying a whole lot of words without actually saying anything. You accuse me of twisting your words, then turn around and the exact same. And deny it or not, in the posts I was quoting, you were basically saying things along the lines of GL MUST be scum. You're probably right about that, but there's no REAL confirmation of that, specially given the weekend's developments re: how a scum might CF.

Bek, whether you like it or not, I still think you're scum. You've done nothing to convince me otherwise, temper tantrum or not.

ok, underline 1 --

denul still fucks up the concept that OTHER ABILITIES ARE INTHE GAME FOR TOWN BESIDES THE LYNCH. argh. just because it is our main information gathering tool does not mean we are helpless, especially in a game like this one. stop telling everyone we are.

underline 2 --

actually, this is the first time that i have hesitated in my look at denul. it's a reasonable statement. he admits the faction number shit was bogus, backs off his vote, and dismisses his ability.... actually, if denul is even half-clever scum, pulling his vote because not a single person followed him was smart, getting rid of the untrue and distracting faction game when it had served its purpose was smart because keeping it around would be weird, and saying his ability didn't help him that much...nice excuse for someone who doesn't want to have to have his ability questioned any further. so i can see this both ways for denul.

under line 3 ---

gl was scum. i'm sorry dude. if he's not scum then i give the fuck up. the fact that denul can't admit this readily is baffling. of course there's no REAL FUCKING CONFIRMATION, when you play high tmdi games sometimes the CFs aren't even real, or people switch alts, or crazier shit than you can imagine happens! and yet on day 1, at ~tmdi 2, scum vs. town, a scum CF is actually very convincing, even more so now that we've seen all of these ri cfs. so denul ends by saying, tl;dr, i have no real reasons but you are probably scum for making noise. bek did make noise and it got him killed. denul was voting for him for a long time as well. regardless of whether or not bek convinced people, there were few people voting him, as he seemed more confused town than slippery scum, so to make his lynch inevitable by repeating it over and over is not normal and puts denul at the top of my shit list for now.