Ghennan, on 31 October 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:
Jalan, on 31 October 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:
I was hoping to get more commentary out of you guys on my Ghennan case... you've all been fairly silent today. It's creepy.
So I did re-read Hanas and Trake. I don't feel it's necessary to re-post a shit ton of quotes with comments for them. All the main possible scum indicators I feel are already noted up-thread by Ghennan, who while I'm very suspicious of when reading his summaries seems to have at least been thorough.
Suffice to say, Trake has so many little things and the one big thing to me is how we removed vote from Fanderay on day 2 and didn't re-vote. There's enough other things here and there that make me thing a Trake-Fanderay scum duo is impossible, so even that one big thing doesn't really have a lot of weight, and all the little things cancel each other out in the greater context. Overall, he just doesn't seem like scum to me.
Hanas was an interesting re-read. Again, I won't mass-quote everything - just go read Ghennan's summary one page back if you need a refresher then come read this. Hanas I'm going to call a reverse-coaster. Instead of having few posts with little substance, Hanas seems to have few posts but they are all substance, or at least trying to be. It's hard to find any post of his that isn't trying to make some big, noticeable point. Sure, part of that is that he missed day 1, but I'd still expect to see more natural conversation out of him on days 2 and 3. There's some replies to the symp deflection accusations in day 2, but even those come off unnaturally to me. Everything with him seems to be sort of methodical and pre-planned.
Of course that's not necessarily by itself a sign of scumminess. But I find that even though all his posts are meant to be contentful, overall he still seems to be coasting in the sense that he makes fairly easy cases, or side-cases that aren't really expected to do anything. He tried to make a case in the middle of day 2 on me for being a coaster, put it all in one post and then didn't really say anything about it again, but left his vote on me the whole day. On day 3 he makes a big counter-case on Ghennan after Ghennan's case on Fanderay, and even votes for Ghennan at the end of it, then disappears again saying no more.
Essentially, the whole thing smells fake to me. He puts a bunch of posts in that look serious and full of substance because they are accusing people, voting, or have mock anger IN ALL CAPITALS against the townie who was just CF'd, and those useful-seeming posts spaced far and wide around his long absences fool you into paying more attention to how irrelevant most of his posts are to what is going on around them. The sheer scarcity of posts and lack of any natural conversation makes it harder to get a read on him or for him to be more memorable. But those posts do have content, so you can't vote him off as a "coaster" either!
Looking at the posts in review though, Hanas basically summarizes as:
day 1 - absent
day 2 - votes Jalan for "coasting" which gets seen as a deflection. Leaves vote on all day without supporting his own case and barely comments on other trains
day 3 - votes Ghennan, who "Sounds like [he's] setting someone up", disappears for the rest of the day
day 4 - absent
Lastly, though I think a Togg or MO killer situation is possible, of the 5 pairings I think are possible now Hanas is 2 of them - Trake-Hanas or Hanas-Fanderay.
I was surprised to feel this way after I felt like Ghennan was scum earlier, but having now finished my re-read Hanas takes the cake. If Ghennan winds up being scum and not Hanas after I switched I'll eat my hat (not literally) but Hanas just plain feels a lot less like town.
Time out is in about 6 hours (probably 5 now that I've been writing this for however long) and I'll be asleep at that time, so
Vote Hanas
I still find it weird that Trake says so much about Fanderay then never votes for him, but I can't get past the idea that Trake was the first to bring attention to Fanderay, and continues to say that there seems to be resistance to Fanderay's lynch.
If Trake and Fanderay are paired scum I'm going to be seriously impressed at their ballsiness. And then really mad that I didn't pick it up sooner.
Apart from that, I agree with your analysis of the Trake Fanderay pairing. I don't see much in that suggestion.
Your summary of Hanas makes me feel like he's scummy, but I still trip up over his comments about Fanderay. If Hanas is a killer, and his partner was Fanderay, I would think he would be much more aware of ho much he mentions Fanderay. If Fanderay wasn't his partner than this kind of fake-symping is just bringing undue attention on himself, although I guess he could be thinking that the natural reaction would be to lynch Fanderay, and then when Fanderay comes up inno Hanas is cleared of suspicion. I guess this is not as risky a situation as I had thought to begin with. The other argument for Hanas being scum is that he is the symp, either actually symping or fake-symping. Those options have already been discussed.
So maybe now I've talked myself into feeling ok about a Hanas lynch. I'd still like to hear from Hanas himself, and as I'll be around until the end of the lynch I'm fine with not voting at this stage.
My resistance to the Fanderay case (which, let's be honest, is the main reason for my perceived scumminess) is that it is based on wishful thinking and association. I will reiterate that at the time of the spat which apparently makes me a symp/ scum partner, only Ultama, Fanderay and myself were online doing any posting. If there's three online, it is very clear you discuss one another and the debate is more lively than it is otherwise. With Ultama down, I have almost no-one to interact with directly. If you don't believe that I have a limited time of interaction with others, check the spaces between posting times of mine and those of others.
To make matters 'worse' in this regard: the day of the Fanderay 'symping' was also the one day in the week where my colleague was absent from the office and I had more freedom to post.
Since I have the benefit of knowing I am inno, I will defend Fanderay on the association-case
where he is associated with me. Any seperate association case has to be judged on its own merits, as Fanderay may be scum.'
However, yesterday's "case" with wishful thinking that portrayed Ultama as Fanderay's symp is of the kind that I feel time should disarm. Fanderay was on Ultama's ass all the time and didn't seize any of Ultama's inclinations, not even the half-baked ones. He did not give any impression of and unwilling to give him a free ride.
As for not having any banter: go fuck yourself with a broomstick if posting fucking filler is now a sign of being town.
Day 1 is the place for it, I missed day 1 and what little time I have, I'd rather spend with some contributions, no matter how insubstantial those contributions may seem to you.
I'd have better stuff and would give and get a better read to/on others if I could interact with them. Unfortunately, my window of posting doesn't cross that of others and I am absent quite a bit, too boot.
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