[D'rek]

No. If I want my wormholes pointing N, SW, S and NE, then how can I tell if that is 1, 2, 4 or 5??

[Morgoth]

Through peer review.

[D'rek]

Well, regardless, I posted my wormholes and cube stuff in post 178 of the other thread (which is now locked, or else I'd quote and bold it).

[twelve]

Well I'm headed off the the coast for the weekend and won't have internet access. I'm not likely to decide on either my orientation nor my cube discard any time soon.

IH, what are you planning on doing for your first action, Explore or Research? And if you explore will it be North or Northeast? And if it's North will you be orienting the wormholes in that hex Northwest towards my homeworld? I'm not against having diplomatic relations with you but I'd prefer the connection to be as far from my homeworld as possible.

Gnaw are you keeping your homeworld orientation as it is shown on the map? I too would enjoy diplomacy with you but would prefer for the connections to be as far as possible.

Have a great weekend folks and I'll check back in sometime Sunday evening Pacific Standard time.

[Galactic Council]

twelve, on 18 October 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Well I'm headed off the the coast for the weekend and won't have internet access. I'm not likely to decide on either my orientation nor my cube discard any time soon.

IH, what are you planning on doing for your first action, Explore or Research? And if you explore will it be North or Northeast? And if it's North will you be orienting the wormholes in that hex Northwest towards my homeworld? I'm not against having diplomatic relations with you but I'd prefer the connection to be as far from my homeworld as possible.

Gnaw are you keeping your homeworld orientation as it is shown on the map? I too would enjoy diplomacy with you but would prefer for the connections to be as far as possible.

Have a great weekend folks and I'll check back in sometime Sunday evening Pacific Standard time.

No orientation? Really?

You just shut the game down for the weekend.

[twelve]

Galactic Council, on 18 October 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

twelve, on 18 October 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Well I'm headed off the the coast for the weekend and won't have internet access. I'm not likely to decide on either my orientation nor my cube discard any time soon.

IH, what are you planning on doing for your first action, Explore or Research? And if you explore will it be North or Northeast? And if it's North will you be orienting the wormholes in that hex Northwest towards my homeworld? I'm not against having diplomatic relations with you but I'd prefer the connection to be as far from my homeworld as possible.

Gnaw are you keeping your homeworld orientation as it is shown on the map? I too would enjoy diplomacy with you but would prefer for the connections to be as far as possible.

Have a great weekend folks and I'll check back in sometime Sunday evening Pacific Standard time.

No orientation? Really?

You just shut the game down for the weekend.

Yep. answer my question about your orientation and then i can put in my provisional. I've got about 5 minutes before my ride picks me up.

[twelve]

Ugh....

Sorry guys I have to go. Sorry.

[Imperial Historian]

The great AI minds of the mechanema hear the whispers across the void, old enemies and old friends have stirred from centuries of silence, confinement in one system is no longer prudent, the collective must make contact once more with the wider world, lest they be left unable to influence wider events. The mechanema must once more go forth, lest the fleshling races bring doom to the galaxy once more.

Consensus has been reached on the parlous state of the mechanemas resources, more materials are needed to build newer greater minds (discard materials cube).

Poised to return to the galaxy once more, the collective hesitates, milliseconds are spent in heated argument. The ancient code of the orion AI's broadcast simulations of orion cruisers, equipped with superior hulls the like of which have never been seen before, these cruisers crush all before them. The great war AI 1010 010 001 000 0000 1 0000 0 0010 0100 0 000 0000 0100 00 10 110 000 leads the faction recommending the development of new better hulls, and recommends all races improve there ships capacity to withstand damage lest the orion once more rampage across the peaceful galaxy.

0100 0 1000 0 10 000 010 01 001 11 councils exploration, determining what threats exist outside the homeworld are necessary before we waste resources on ineffective hull parts. Communications have reached us from an unknown race, called the exiles. Troubling reports have reached us on their technical capabilities, stealth ships equiped with neutron bombs could be a grave threat to the galaxy.

The factions are evenly matched, more data is needed on the intentions of the race known as the exiles before simulations will achieve sufficient accuracy.

[Imperial Historian]

So we are waiting on twelve khell and tappers cube discards and orientation?

Twelve/Gnaw, I get the impression gnaw has oriented his homeworld as is on the board, and presumably discarded a cube but I don't see a post from him anywhere (presumably it's intermixed into one of his many GC posts)

[Galactic Council]

Sorry, but the modgod needs to interrupt the RP for a couple of things.

Hex orientation:

This applies to discovered hexes, not just homeworlds.

As the MAPMAKER, the placement of the wormholes is a bulky way to communicate your wishes. However the TEXT on the tile can only be placed in one of 6 directions and only ONE where it is readable on a 90° from vertical plane. I have numbered the 6 positions. Once you have decided how you want a hex's wormholes oriented please look at the direction of the text in that resultant and give me the number that corresponds to the singular position where the text on the tile is readable from the standard 90° from vertical.

Spoiler

 hex orientation example 2.png (332.26K)
Number of downloads: 0

I think that this lowers placement errors to near zero at the cost of the player typing one thing differently. If it pleases you to do so, feel free to type the NW,SE,ExSW stuff. Just tack that number at the beginning. If this doesn't work out, that's fine. But let's give it a shot please.

Action submission and RP:

Quote

"... The time will soon come to enfold their liinto the nuksha, but for now we must keep the lattices secure. Our wormholes shall be directed to the North, Northwest, Southeast and South. Our economic networks shall be increased so we may spread and strengthen the nuksha as quickly as possible. We are the Trinities. We are consensus. "

"...The mechanema must once more go forth, lest the fleshling races bring doom to the galaxy once more.

Consensus has been reached on the parlous state of the mechanemas resources, more materials are needed to build newer greater minds (discard materials cube).

Poised to return to the galaxy once more, the collective hesitates, milliseconds are spent in heated argument....."

the Directorate's intentions for the WPGRG you've all been hearing about in the news lately. Final calculations are in and our best scientific minds estimate it will be able to fire four times before exhausting its precious and rare fuel source. I believe our race's goals for advancement are best accomplished by finding our neighbours quickly and befriending them. The WPGRG will fire first toward the Galactic North, then to the Northwest, followed by two quick bursts to the South and Southeast once the WPGRG platform's orbit has carried the device into position. In preparation for our flight to the stars, I am also pleased to announce new funding for business development. Our economists tell us we are best-off removing an entire cubic unit of money from circulation in order to drive up the value of the EuroYenDollar and reduce inflation in preparation for new export trade to other worlds."

No.

Bolded in a separate line at the bottom of the post.

RP in general:

Fun and Chmee Gnaw shall do his best to uphold the traditions of the Descendants.

This game suffers in a number of areas in the translation from table top to forum. The majority of that is translating the visual to text and communication. Accurate communication of actual actions must be the priority. Obfuscate, lie, dive into the rolel. But when it comes to putting all that to "I do this", clarity must be the rule.

Edit: Spoiiered the image. Changed "90' from horizontal" to "90° from vertical". Changed "roll" to "role".

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 19 October 2013 - 08:56 PM

[Galactic Council]

Round: 0

• IH -
  
  • Orient as is (1)
    
  • Discard materials.
    
  • Source
    
• Morgoth -
  • Hm, keep current alignment, then. (1) Source
    
  • In conclusion, the Hydrani University of Progress will discard a $ cube. Source
    
• CF -
  • Galactic North, then to the Northwest, the South and Southeast (3 or 6; assumed 6)*
  • removing an entire cubic unit of money
  • Source
• Tapper - ?
  
• Khell - ?
  
• D'rek -
  
  • North, Northwest, Southeast and South (3 or 6; assumed 6)*
    
  • economic networks shall be increased
  • Source
• GP -
  
  • Rotate our hex so that two wormholes are touching Tier 2, so that is one click Anti Clockwise. (6)
    
  • Discard money cube.
  • from here
• Gnaw -
  • Orient at 6
  • discard money
  • No clue. But it's been that way on the map for awhile.
    
• Twelve -
  
  • Orientation - There's a reason they're exiled. Don't google "interspecies relations"
    
  • Discard - Camping so one would assume "science"

Edit: Further note on orientation. When there is more than one position to orient wormholes correctly, please pick the position that makes reading the text consistent with other hexes of the same orientation. I think we all benefit if the map is readable without having to turn our phones and tablets through the entire 360°.

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 20 October 2013 - 02:44 AM

[Galactic Council]

twelve, on 18 October 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Gnaw,

I was taking a look at the map and I see that you only have 3 colony ships for the planta when in fact they have 4. Khell might not know that so I thought I would point it out. Also the tech board has some of the tech listed in the wrong slots. I thought that you would want to fix this before you did another map update.

Colony ships fixed.

tech fixed. although I may change the tech board I'm using. It looks like it could be too easy to think that the bottom one on a given pile is the board, not a distinct tech tile.

Thiings I know are wrong on map:

no ambassador tiles for Guardians. Have
no ambassador tiles for Lyra. I assume there are some in the game 2 thread, just haven't dug them out yet.
no shrines. I assume there are some in the game 2 thread, just haven't dug them out yet.
no alliance markers. again, game 2 thread.

new interceptors and/or cruisers: not for each species. just two shapes that are easily distinguishable. I was not the only person in game 3 who made calls based on confusing the two ship types.

[Galactic Council]

The hex selection process. I just realized that the time between posing the question and "finalizing" was a grand total of 9 hours. Hardly sufficient for comment. My answer is in post #5 above. However, I acknowledge that my judgement on the issue is biased since I picked the Descendants. Further, it didn't occur to me that there would be an issue until after that decision had been made.

Upon yet further consideration I have a headache and am tempted to change the above option simply to make the headache go away.

Examples of why I think this is problematic in the first place.

Draco cannot keep a hive hex. So, I get 212 or 319 from the draw pile.
Khell (or anyone, but he is the second most likely to discard an unfavorable hex) draws a hive or a warp portal.

Does discarding any of those mean they're removed from the game?

I see three options for the draw pile. Two options to handle discarded tiles the specifics of which change slightly for each option.

• Option A: Pick 6/8/24 hexes now. They are what is available period.

• Discards are not sent back to the draw pile immediately and only become re-available once the draw pile is depleted.
• Discards are sent back to the draw pile and are available for draw immediately.

• Option B: Use open draws. All game wide hexes are in the available draw piles until 6/12/24 hexes have been placed.

• Discards are not sent back to the draw pile and will only be used once all other available hexes have been drawn. For Sector II and Sector III, chances are that the discarded tiles effectively are removed from the game.
• Discards are sent back to the draw pile and are available for draw immediately.

• Option C: Use open draws. All game wide hexes are in the available draw piles until 6/12/24 distinct hexes have been drawn regardless of whether they were placed.

• Discards are not sent back to the draw pile and only become re-available once the draw pile is depleted.
• Discards are sent back to the draw pile and are available for draw immediately.

Option C 1 describes what I proposed in the sign-up and is currently in Post #5.

Comments below are culled from the sign-up sheet and are only used to give examples to the options. Italics are obviously mine.:

Twelve:
"I think in the last game to eliminate an unfair advantage that the mod had all tiles are available for draw and once the 24th tile was selected everything else was considered the discarded tiles. I vote to keep it that way."

Optiion C. Probably 1.

D'rek:
"AFAIR, the way we have done it with my tabletop group is like IH says - for Tier 3 we set aside the appropriate number of hexes (depending on the number of players) ahead of time, and that becomes the Tier 3 "pile". The rest of the Tier 3 hexes are tossed in the box and not used all game. So if discards occur, whether Draco or regular discard (the discarded hex is treated the same way - placed face up in the discard pile) it doesn't change the subset of hexes that have already been "picked" as the tier 3 hexes for this particular game."

Option A1.

IH:
"personally I'd continue drawing from the main pile over bringing back the discards for tier 3, but your choice"

Could be any option but definitely 1 on discards

Khell:
"If you're asking me about hex draws, I vote we just do what we did last game. Or, failing that, whatever is statistically best for the Planta"

Statistically best would be Option C2. I think.

Morgoth:
"The University of Hydrani certainly will not howl in outrage. We may however formulate a very pointed commentary in your biggest newspaper."

Answer given in response to the proposal that becomes Option C after giving me a headache.



Pros/cons with the options.

D'rek:
"I'm not really sure which way is "correct", or if there is definitely one correct way that should be used for all three tiers. With my tabletop group, I think we mostly just do it that way for convenience - we like having the variability to the game that all the tier 1 and 2 hexes could come into play (or if you're exploring the last empty space and get a crappy hex there's more than 1 hex left in the pile to draw), but for tier 3 we're too lazy to try and keep track of how many tier 3 hexes we're allowed to explore.

In the 2nd forum game, I think I did actually use the "everything is in the pile" method for all 3 tiers and we ended up having a counting problem at some point."

The underlined is the argument against Option A. The keeping track is an argument against Option C, but I'm 99% certain that I can do that. Post 5 gives my proposed method of doing so. (Pick nits. Please.)

Option A has a further disadvantage. If the draw pool is to be fixed at a certain subset of hexes the decision should have been made before the race selection. And certainly before orientation and cube removal. If that is the choice, then we either step back to pre-orientation or the hexes are not picked until everyone has made that decision.

Strategic discarding. This applies to everyone, but is especially applicable to Draco and Planta.

Any discard option 2 greatly diminishes the effectiveness of discarding a tile to keep it from being placed at that particular location and/or time. As stated above, the Draco have no choice when it comes to hives, but what about a warp portal? As CF learned in game 3, warp portals have advantages. Especially when they're somebody else's! (Twelve and I briefly discussed a particularly nasty version of that. And no I'm not sharing.)

Option B1 encourages anyone to discard a tile they find unfavorable as it probably eliminates that tile from the game.

Khell: "In any event, your game, your rules. Go with what you feel is best, and them we can all lambast you after the game for the ridiculous decisions"

Yes it is. But due to my inexperience I do not feel comfortable making the choice unilaterally.

I apologize that the issue came up at all. My only mea culpa is that this is the fourth game and we're all still learning the table-top to forum translation. In table-top this would have occupied five minutes max.

[D'rek]

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

Option A has a further disadvantage. If the draw pool is to be fixed at a certain subset of hexes the decision should have been made before the race selection. And certainly before orientation and cube removal. If that is the choice, then we either step back to pre-orientation or the hexes are not picked until everyone has made that decision.

I don't think it really matters because no one should know which hexes are in the draw pile and which are "tossed back into the box". There's still equal chance of getting a supernova, hive, warp portal, regular tier 3 hex, etc. Frankly, there's not going to be a whole lot of discards because discarding usually means wasting a turn and with limited explores it might mean 1 less explore you get to use before they're all gone. The exception is Draco, but it's unlikely they'll be the only ones exploring so there won't be *that* many Draco discards.

I vote option A-1 because I think it is closest to the tabletop game and the rules. With the important note that no one should know what hexes are in the draw pile and which are tossed back into the box. (If we need to add another level of obfuscation so the mod doesn't see what hexes are in the draw pile when he does randomizations and stuff, I have an idea for adding that extra layer)

This post has been edited by D'rek: 20 October 2013 - 04:40 AM

[Galactic Council]

D, on 20 October 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

Option A has a further disadvantage. If the draw pool is to be fixed at a certain subset of hexes the decision should have been made before the race selection. And certainly before orientation and cube removal. If that is the choice, then we either step back to pre-orientation or the hexes are not picked until everyone has made that decision.

I don't think it really matters because no one should know which hexes are in the draw pile and which are "tossed back into the box". There's still equal chance of getting a supernova, hive, warp portal, regular tier 3 hex, etc. Frankly, there's not going to be a whole lot of discards because discarding usually means wasting a turn and with limited explores it might mean 1 less explore you get to use before they're all gone. The exception is Draco, but it's unlikely they'll be the only ones exploring so there won't be *that* many Draco discards.

I vote option A-1 because I think it is closest to the tabletop game and the rules. With the important note that no one should know what hexes are in the draw pile and which are tossed back into the box. (If we need to add another level of obfuscation so the mod doesn't see what hexes are in the draw pile when he does randomizations and stuff, I have an idea for adding that extra layer)

Quite teasing. If you can do that the problem goes away entirely.

Edit: You'll appreciate the irony in this.

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 20 October 2013 - 05:02 AM

[Galactic Council]

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

D, on 20 October 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

Option A has a further disadvantage. If the draw pool is to be fixed at a certain subset of hexes the decision should have been made before the race selection. And certainly before orientation and cube removal. If that is the choice, then we either step back to pre-orientation or the hexes are not picked until everyone has made that decision.

I don't think it really matters because no one should know which hexes are in the draw pile and which are "tossed back into the box". There's still equal chance of getting a supernova, hive, warp portal, regular tier 3 hex, etc.

<snip>

I vote option A-1 because I think it is closest to the tabletop game and the rules. With the important note that no one should know what hexes are in the draw pile and which are tossed back into the box. (If we need to add another level of obfuscation so the mod doesn't see what hexes are in the draw pile when he does randomizations and stuff, I have an idea for adding that extra layer)

If you can do that the problem goes away entirely.

Your idea?

[D'rek]

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Edit: You'll appreciate the irony in this.

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Your idea?

1. We have a list of however many 3## hexes there are. You post a list here of that whole list of outer hex numbers.

2. For every hex #, I assign it a letter code. So 322 = AK. I'll use a randomizer to assign letter codes to hex numbers so there's no pattern.

3. For each letter code, I make a text file with the equivalent hex number in it. (I don't have a lot of things to do today )

4. I post a list of all the letter codes here, and send you all the text files.

5. You use a randomizer to select 24 (or however many we should have) outer sectors using their letter codes.

6. Whenever an outer sector explore is done in the game, you randomly pick from the 24 letter codes, and then look in that text file to see what hex it is.


Results:

-I know what letter codes correspond to what hexes, but I don't know what letter codes are in use so it doesn't give me any extra info.
-You know what letter codes are in use, but not which hexes they correspond to until an outer sector explore is done, and then you only know that one hex, so it doesn't give you any extra info either.

The explore results and discard piles are always public knowledge, so once we are down to just the discard pile and need to reshuffle it, we can just use the hex numbers at that time.

[Galactic Council]

D, on 20 October 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Edit: You'll appreciate the irony in this.

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Your idea?

1. We have a list of however many 3## hexes there are. You post a list here of that whole list of outer hex numbers.

2. For every hex #, I assign it a letter code. So 322 = AK. I'll use a randomizer to assign letter codes to hex numbers so there's no pattern.

3. For each letter code, I make a text file with the equivalent hex number in it. (I don't have a lot of things to do today )

4. I post a list of all the letter codes here, and send you all the text files.

5. You use a randomizer to select 24 (or however many we should have) outer sectors using their letter codes.

6. Whenever an outer sector explore is done in the game, you randomly pick from the 24 letter codes, and then look in that text file to see what hex it is.


Results:

-I know what letter codes correspond to what hexes, but I don't know what letter codes are in use so it doesn't give me any extra info.
-You know what letter codes are in use, but not which hexes they correspond to until an outer sector explore is done, and then you only know that one hex, so it doesn't give you any extra info either.

The explore results and discard piles are always public knowledge, so once we are down to just the discard pile and need to reshuffle it, we can just use the hex numbers at that time.

Two factor security. That should work.


101 Castor
102 Pollux
103 Beta Leonis
104 Arcturus
105 Zeta Hurculis
106 Capella
107 Aldebaran
108 Mu Cassiopeiae




201 Alpha Centauri
202 Fomalhaut
203 Chi Draconis
204 Vega
205 Mu Herculis
206 Epsilon Indi
207 Zeta Reculi
208 Iota Persei
209 Delta Eridani
210 Psi Capricorni
211 Beta Aquilae
212 Lambda Fornacis hive
213 Iota Bootis
281 Delta Corvi warp portal

• 301 Zeta Draconis
• 302 Gamma Serpentis
• 303 Eta Cephei
• 304 Theta Pegasi
• 305 Lambda Serpentis
• 306 Beta Centauri
• 307 Sigma Sagittarii
• 308 Kappa Scorpii
• 309 Phi Piscium
• 310 Nu Phoenicis
• 311 Canopus
• 312 Antares
• 313 Alpha Ursae Minoris
• 314 Spica
• 315 Epsilon Aurigae
• 316 Iota Carinae
• 317 Beta Crucis
• 318 Gamma Velorum
• 319 Upsilon Hydrae hive
  
• 320 Nu Ophiuchi
• 321 Beta Delphini
• 322 Lambda Tauri
• 323 Zeta Andromedae
• 324 Epsilon Carinae
• 325 Tau Librae (SP1 hex)
  
• 381 Beta Sextantis warp portal
• 382 Zeta Chamaeleontis warp portal
• 391 Betelgeuse supernova
  
• 392 Deneb supernova
  
• 393 Geminga Pulsar
  
• 394 Simeis 147 Pulsar
  

[Galactic Council]

Your text files should start with a 1, 2, 3 for the sector. Yeah, that's a 'doh' but I didn't think of it immediately so you might not either.

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 20 October 2013 - 06:52 PM

[D'rek]

Galactic Council, on 20 October 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Your text files should start with a 1, 2, 3 for the sector. Yeah, that's a 'doh' but I didn't think of it immediately so you might not either.

I don't think we need to do that for tier 1 and 2 sectors, we can just use all the hexes for that (I believe that's what is usually done in tabletop)

I'll do the tier 3 files and send them to you when done.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 20 October 2013 - 06:55 PM