[Barghast]

Then there's a reveal. Rash says he'll vote me but doesn't say why.

Rashan, on 31 July 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Vote Barghast

best candidate after Alkend. I will dig up the post that made me suspicious towards him.

Tellan's immediate response:

Tellan, on 31 July 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Anything is better than a no-lynch, and I'm inclined to believe Alkend's reveal, so

Vote Barghast

I respond, and call out Rash on a bullshit case:

Barghast, on 31 July 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

I responded to Korbas' accusation. but obviously it's too much to expect Rash to quote that as well.

for those interested, posts 138 and 139

Tellan immideatelty backs up.

Tellan, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Just read the posts, and the defense seems pretty solid. Anyone got any other ideas?

Tellan, on 31 July 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?

I don't think so... Only way would be to lynch him, but that wouldn't really let his ability do any good..

I throw out Cast. Tellan says:

Tellan, on 31 July 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

A low poster lynch is better than nothing, and cast has contributed nothing. I forgot he was playing.

Remove Vote,
Vote Cast

Then Cast is lynched.

Next we hear of Tellan is much later:

Tellan, on 01 August 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Kalse, on 01 August 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Okaros, on 01 August 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

If I were to believe Alkend, I have a hard time trying to put together all of the things Alkend has said and done here into a cohesive MO.

Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Sigh.
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?

So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.

This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.

But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:

1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)

2.

Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?

Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.

Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.

So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!


So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.



Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...

I am agreeable with Okaros here. I don't actually think to believe the reveal and Alkend being around is going to cloud the thread further on. I don't want to get into a situation where we are at D day with Alkend still alive

I feel like the situation won't take care of itself, so we need to do something about it. His presence will cloud the thread, and there'll always be someone who jumps to an Alkend vote in opposition to other cases. The two ways we cand deal with it is lynch him, or hope he gets NK'd. A clouded thread is good for scum, so I wouldn't count on the NK, so that just leaves lynching him. Its still early, so I don't want to drop my vote yet, but he's topping my list unless a good case is made on someone else where the evidence is really convincing

note how he doesn't want to vote "just yet"

He then does the most proactive thing he did all game--makes his one and only case.

Tellan, on 02 August 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

I'm back, and the thread has slowed down a lot. I'll take a look at D'riss, I don't have anything better to do tonight.

Tellan, on 02 August 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

So here's D'riss summarized this game:


He mentions recruiting, which gets promptly shot down and causes the conflict between him and Lio.
He OMGUS votes Lio for Introducing WIFOM on thread after lio votes him for the recruitment comment.
He has a snarky to Lio
He leaves his vote on for a while, but the removes it, and goes on to vote Desra a bit later.
He says he sees merit in an Alkend lynch, but doesn't vote, instead asking for other options. Noncommital
He's gone for a while, but returns in time to drop a drive by vote on Cast
When he gets back, he agrees with Okaros, and proceeds to actually vote Alkend, but calls Rashan suspicious.
He reiterates his alkend suspicions, but backs off after Alkend's response to him.

I'm noticing a pattern here. He sets up a main target and looks for or finds a backup(i.e. Alkend/Rashan, Alkend/looking for another target), staying relatively noncommital votewise. He seems to have tried to go under the radar after the Lio spat. This could be scum trying to not be noticed after the Lio stuff and subsequent NK of Lio, which may have been him trying to take out someone who went after him, but NK analysis does not a good case make. In all honesty, D'riss has acted scummily this game, but not (imo) egregiously so. That actually makes someone seems scummier to me, because scum would be aware of what is scummy, and try to avoid it. His playstyle is scummy enough to be noticeable, but not so much so as to convince me that no sane scum would play that way, and make him less suspicious. There's not enough evidence there to convince me thoroughly as to him being scum, but I know for sure I'll at least keep an eye on him.

What struck me about this much later was the fact that he didn't actually vote on it. He just kind of... threw it out there.

Barghast, on 02 August 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Tellan, on 02 August 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

So here's D'riss summarized this game:


He mentions recruiting, which gets promptly shot down and causes the conflict between him and Lio.
He OMGUS votes Lio for Introducing WIFOM on thread after lio votes him for the recruitment comment.
He has a snarky to Lio
He leaves his vote on for a while, but the removes it, and goes on to vote Desra a bit later.
He says he sees merit in an Alkend lynch, but doesn't vote, instead asking for other options. Noncommital
He's gone for a while, but returns in time to drop a drive by vote on Cast
When he gets back, he agrees with Okaros, and proceeds to actually vote Alkend, but calls Rashan suspicious.
He reiterates his alkend suspicions, but backs off after Alkend's response to him.

I'm noticing a pattern here. He sets up a main target and looks for or finds a backup(i.e. Alkend/Rashan, Alkend/looking for another target), staying relatively noncommital votewise. He seems to have tried to go under the radar after the Lio spat. This could be scum trying to not be noticed after the Lio stuff and subsequent NK of Lio, which may have been him trying to take out someone who went after him, but NK analysis does not a good case make. In all honesty, D'riss has acted scummily this game, but not (imo) egregiously so. That actually makes someone seems scummier to me, because scum would be aware of what is scummy, and try to avoid it. His playstyle is scummy enough to be noticeable, but not so much so as to convince me that no sane scum would play that way, and make him less suspicious. There's not enough evidence there to convince me thoroughly as to him being scum, but I know for sure I'll at least keep an eye on him.

quotes would be nice, but beggars can't be choosers.

I'll

vote D'riss

b/c I have a strong feeling people are barking up the wrong tree with Rash. so I want to leave some options on the table, in case I don't wake up in time for the timeout.

g'night, y'all

Path-Shaper, on 02 August 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

It is Day 3. 5 hours and 48 minutes remaining
16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for D'riss ( Barghast )
1 Vote for Jalan ( Eloth )
3 Votes for Rashan ( Gait, Trake, Alkend )
2 Votes for Alkend ( Mockra, Okaros )

Players not voted: Anthras, D'riss, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Rashan, Tellan

Path-Shaper, on 02 August 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

This is the vote count as it looks now, past time out. I will give you 57 minutes (a full 90 minutes past timeout) because I screwed up and had to step out with only 30 minutes left to go.

It is Day 3. 33 minutes since time out
16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

6 Votes for D'riss ( Barghast, Trake, Kalse, Galain, Korbas, Jalan )
2 Votes for Rashan ( Gait, Alkend, )
1 Vote for Jalan ( Eloth )
2 Votes for Alkend ( Mockra, Okaros )

Players not voted: Anthras, D'riss, Hanas, Rashan, Tellan

Tellan, on 02 August 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Whoah. I just woke up, and I'm glad shin added time. I thought we had an extra hour.

Vote D'riss

Tellan votes towards the end of the train--that place where any vote can be explained away by the "well, we needed a lynch" sentiment.

to be continued..

[Shinrei]

It is Day 7. 26 hours and 32 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Alkend, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Tellan, Trake

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Eloth ( Okaros )
1 Vote for Trake ( Gait )

Players not voted: Alkend, Barghast, Eloth, Galain, Korbas, Mockra, Tellan, Trake

[Barghast]

next day, Tellan shows up, when votes are on Mockra and Rash:

Tellan, on 03 August 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

I'm torn today... Mockra's summaries to keep up appearances are damn suspicious, but I understand where he's coming from with the explanation that he had a busy week. On the other hand, there's rashan.

He's played a bit strangely all game, and while I don't completely believe his reveal, it seems relatively plausible. However, he'll cloud up the thread just by his presence, and his self vote shows he thinks he's the best lynch target. Since his reveal seems plausible, and he thinks he's the best target, then I have to assume its because he believes it'll help us in some way, either by clearing up the thread, giving a bit more evidence to maybe VPI alkend, or some other reason I haven't thought of. I'll hold onto my vote for now, but I'm leaning towards Rashan with it right now. I should be around for a while.

Refuses to commit, untill he needs to:

Tellan, on 03 August 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Ok, we only have like 3 hours left, so I'm just going to go ahead and vote.

Vote Rashan

how very socially responsible. And right in the end of the train, too.

Tellan, on 03 August 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Please, someone get on, we cannot fucking no lynch again

Next day, he's much more active:

Tellan, on 05 August 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

I'm with Trake. He hasn't particularly been leading the thread up until now, when the only reason I think it could seem that way is because no one seems to have been on thread this weekend besides you(Mockra), me, him, Galain, and for about one post Alkend. The Barghast suspicions are interesting, and I do think we need to really start putting some pressure on people instead of just going on the same suspicions we've been going on since day 1. However, we really do need to clear up the thread, those failed lynch trained are really bothering me. I'm going to do a read up on Eloth, to see what's making Mockra suspicious of him, because we need to start broadening our search. We've been collectively tunneled in on Alkend and Rashan all game, and that needs to change if we're going to find scum. I'll check out Eloth, and if I don't fall asleep, maybe Barghast too. Barghast hasn't pinged my scumdar much, but you never know what you may find on a reread. Should neither Barghast nor Eloth seem scummy to me, I'll drop my vote on Rashan before I go to bed.

Tellan, on 05 August 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

So not much on Eloth:

Eloth agreed with Barghast's attempt to halt role distribution/mechanics discussion, saying: "This is a good point. Make them figure out how that shit works without our help."


Then comments how he finds Desra's angry defense to be interesting: "This comes off as very defensive. He had a mini case and one vote against him and he gets all hot and bothered. interesting" and says he's still catching up

He brings up both me and Rashan as lurkers, but (about Rashan) thinks "it is hard to see a symp being this blatant, but also, the fact that he just pops in right before lynch and, like Tellan, doesn't drop a vote is weird."

Thinks "we might be on to something with Alkend."

He then goes away on a business trip, saying he'll be away until friday, and on Thursday checks in to say he believes the Alkend reveal, votes Jalan for playing smooth, voices his suspicions on me, but says he has very little on me, says he trusts Barghy and Okaros, and signs off. And that's the last he's posted.

I don't see much suspicious behavior here. The agreement with Barghast has been consistent and often when compared to the volume of his posts, and he votes Jalan for little reason, but I really don't think that's anywhere near enough for me to vote for him. My read on him stays neutral. Should Barghast seem scummy, there'll be a bit of a connection between them.


p.s: I have some time on my hands, so I may be doing these analyses on more than just Eloth and Barghast. Next on my list will be either Galain, Jalan, or Anthras after Barghy

to be continued

[Barghast]

Tellan's cases, continued:

Tellan, on 05 August 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

Barghast has the whole discouraging role spec thing, but that (to me), seems pretty innocent, more like a concerned townie than scum trying to keep town in the dark.

He then makes a kind of schedule predicting what will happen this game. Some people brought it up as a get out of jail free card for mislynches, but to me it seemed more of a pragmatic view of what could happen than an attempt to get an excuse for lynching townies.

After the failed Day 1 lynch, he becomes a proponent of an Alkend lynch, based on Rashan's refusal to vote him (which I don't think had happened yet, maybe he confused it for his refusal to vote Desra?)

He starts the Cast train after the Alkend reveal, which just seems kind of like an attempt to just get any lynch instead of a second straight no-lynch.

When Rashan brings suspicion against him in attempt to find a lynch target after the Alkend reveal, he refers back to other posts he makes, which I considered a solid defense to the accusations (posts 138 and 139, if you're wondering)

After the Cast lynch and 2 NK's, he says he thinks rashan's "play stinks of poor town play, but I'm not getting too many scum vibes from him"He brings me up as a suspect in his mind but never really elaborates past a comparison between me and Rashan.

He disagree's with Hanas' comment about Mockra's post being contradictory, and therefore scummy.He reiterates that he thinks "people are barking up the wrong tree with Rash"

He says that Hanas voting Rashan with a train on D'riss "can easily be interpreted as you being resistant to lynch D'riss, y'know."

He could've been the hammer vote on Rashan, but didn't vote, continuing his assertion that he thinks Rashan is town after the vig reveal.

And lastly, he votes Mockra before he leaves.

His play, all in all, seems very town. he takes a pragmatic view on the game, which some people think is scummy, but besides that and possible connections to Rashan should we lynch Rashan and have him CF scum, he's clean.

Next up, Anthras.

Tellan, on 05 August 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

He is the first to point out Desra's comment that sounded like he wanted scum to win.

A few contentless posts.

He says the no NK on day 1 was because "either killers can't attack on night one, BP or lucky heal." (The last two possibilites make sense, and did at the time, but the first one seems a bit odd to me. Not only does he put up the three option as if they're the only ones, the first one sticks out because I never would have thought of it, and as a rule of thumb, if someone brings up a possibility worded as either an assumption or something else more than random speculation, then they probably have knowledge the thread doesn't have about it. So this is a bit suspicious to me.

Votes alkend to get more info on thread.

Comments on Rashan's U turn regarding Alkend

He gets onto the Cast train, and then leaves, citing his impending absence as the reason for the vote.

He notices Okaros' post regarding Alkend's reveal and his potential lover(s), who Okaros seems to be urging to reveal (scummy by Okaros, may take a look)

He also states he wont take Alkend's defence as gospel

I'll quote this last one:

Anthras, on 02 August 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

well i missed out on a lot there, a few things stuck out to me as odd.

The way I see it, when PS made his mistake everyone was panicing thinking we were running out of time. When theres less than 1-2 hours left on the clock, and you need a lot of votes to get a lynch, then you don't try and figure out a mechanic, you try and find a viable target.

it looked like hanas tried to get everyone back to voting rashan, which coincidently, would of saved kalse, and D'riss, who are both town, but did it in a way that makes me want to vote him...

Makes me want to take a look at Hanas.

So the first post I saw seemed scummy to me, but the rest didn't do much either way. I'll keep an eye on Anthras, but he's not at the top of my list.

As of now, after the next person I look at, I'm going to bed, so if they don't seem scummy, it'll be Rashan again with my vote.

And next up, due to the urging of Alkend to reveal his potential lover(s), is Okaros.

Tellan, on 05 August 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

Okaros starts off with some role spec, then goes on to say that Desra's comment about knowing his clan may be a slip

He then votes Alkend for avoiding the Day one lynch.

He disagrees with Barghast about role spec (scum trying to draw out more spec? or just town trying to get more knowledge on thread?)

He then tries to get Alkend to get his potential lover(s) to out themselves on thread to VPI or CI him:

Okaros, on 01 August 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

If I were to believe Alkend, I have a hard time trying to put together all of the things Alkend has said and done here into a cohesive MO.

Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Sigh.
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?

So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.

This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.

But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:

1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)

2.

Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?

Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.

Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.

So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!


So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.



Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...

In the same quote, he mentions how there are no known Goro's affiliated with miura except for one in the wrong century, which casts doubt on the Alkend reveal.He proceeds to vote Alkend again because of Alkend's reluctance to reveal the circumstances, etc, or when/how his role works. I'd put Okaros at about the same level of suspiciousness as Anthras. They both have one post that makes me want to keep an eye on them, but not enough evidence to be even near conclusive.

This is a lot of analysis. Lots of names being thrown out. no commitment though. Instead, he goes back to the "safest" option

Tellan, on 05 August 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

Ok, none of these four seem scummy enough to warrant letting Rashan cloud up the thread by his simple presence for another day. So for now,

Vote Rashan.


I'll try to wake up early enough so that I can change my vote if the train goes elsewhere.

The next day:

Korbas, on 05 August 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Alkend, on 05 August 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

I'm going to do what we should have done last night.
Vote Rashan

Oh, for gods sake. What is the point of this vote? Do you actually think Rashan is scum? If you do, can you explain his actions around the self-vote?

Because otherwise, there is really no point, and we'd be better off actually looking for scum instead of housecleaning.

Tellan, on 05 August 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Korbas, you make a good point. We've hit the point where if we're continually fixated on Rashan, then we'll never have a chance at winning this game.

hey, you've made all this great analysis, surely you must have a suspect by now?

continued

[Barghast]

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Ok, I just looked in for a sec, and seriously rashan, what the fuck are you doing?' Are you trying to lose the game for town?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Checking in again, sorry I haven't been more active today, birthday stuff got in the way. If Rashan don't want to play, might as well

Vote Rashan

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Galain, on 06 August 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I read it wrong. I thought you were suggesting he lay out his role PM in a pretty much quoted form so he'd be Modkilled

We'll it's certainly one way of doing it but not what I had in mind. Would be nice for him to be around to discuss what he knows for a time rather than immediately taken out.

I agree with you, I probably should've read more closely.

Rashan, anything you know that could help us?

That last one is once again to show how un-confrontational Tellan is, even in little things.

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Im here.... I guess I'll vote, we need a lynch

Vote Jalan

Anyone notice the trend of these "I guess I have to" votes?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Just got out from dinner, did a speed readup, and I guess we have no choice.

He then gets called out on it:

Tellan, on 07 August 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Okaros, on 07 August 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Well it's still night but I'm not really averse to talking at night, especially in M&P games. Whether you sound off during the day or night the WIFOM can still always creep in.

So anyways, we're in a situation here we don't normally get into - that of having missed a lot of lynches. Generally, yeah, it's bad for town to miss many lynches, but on the other hand it is REALLY bad for scum. Scum is absolutely vested in getting rid of town in as few nights as possible, both because it means less info from the thread itself and also because it's fewer nights for them to be found by a healer. Plus, in general, scum tend to be more involved in the game due to their role. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll post more, but they're more likely to be keeping track of it and not miss day timing out. So given that we've had many days with a lot of people not voting, I suggest that we may be able to narrow down the scum by looking at who did and didn't vote a lot.

Path-Shaper, on 30 July 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 0 hours and 0 minutes remaining.
19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Barghast ( Korbas )
2 Votes for Desra ( Cast, D'riss )
1 Vote for Liosan ( Alkend )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Kalse, Gait, Jalan, Barghast, Liosan )

Players not voted: Anthras, Desra, Eloth, Galain, Hanas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake


Gen watched the Fujiwari troops from his post on the Western wall. The enemy soldiers seemed intent on completing their entrenchments, but not much else. He turned, the banner attached to the back of his armor whipping in the early Spring wind. "Keep an eye on their forward pickets. I'm going for a piss."
"But we don't know how many of them there are. Should we get an accurate count?" replied a bushy eyebrowed spearman.
Gen stopped, turned back and said "We've all been speculating on that for a while now. But the truth is for us we really only need to worry about one thing, we hold this wall. That's all you need to know. I'm going for a piss."
And what a lovely, long arching piss it was.

Day 1 is over. No one was lynched.

It is now Night 1. Please submit your actions ASAP.

Path-Shaper, on 31 July 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 7 hours and 56 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Rashan ( Cast )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait, Trake, Liosan )
1 Vote for Desra ( Korbas )
10 Votes for Cast ( Barghast, Rashan, Alkend, Tellan, Desra, Anthras, Kalse, D'riss, Hanas, Galain)

Players not voted: Eloth, Jalan


That is a lynch.

Cast is dead. He was Yasuhide Narumasa and Peanutbutta of Arai Castle

The Takeda spy watched from his position on the small hill well beyond the Fujiwari line. So far not much was happening, the Fujiwari seemed uncharacteristcally cautious. They seemed more content to shift their formations and send messages to and fro. The spy plucked a nearby grassroot to chew on and absently scratched his arse. The flies on this hill were getting worse.
A new set of motion caught his eye, on the plain just East of the castle a larger skirmish was taking place. It seemed a group of messengers and escorts had encountered a small sortie from the castle. I furious exchange of blows with several soldiers toppling from their saddles. Some got up again, a few others did not. The agent bit through his grass stem and turned back to the main field of Fujiwari soldiers. He hoped something worthwhile happened soon, so he could make a decent report.

Path-Shaper, on 02 August 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is Day 3. 81 minutes since time out with 9 minutes of time extension left.


16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

9 Votes for D'riss ( Barghast, Trake, Kalse, Galain, Korbas, Jalan, Tellan, Rashan, Hanas )
3 Votes for Rashan ( Gait, Alkend, D'riss)
1 Vote for Jalan ( Eloth )
2 Votes for Alkend ( Mockra, Okaros )

Players not voted: Anthras

D'riss is dead. He was Kenshiro Mochizuki and Lady Bliss of Edo Castle.

Most of the 3rd day of the siege saw small skirmishes back and forth, mostly arrow fire and small groups of warriors squaring off in challenges for personal honor and glory. Just past dark saw a main thrusting attack of the Fujiwari. The wall defenses were overwhelmed in two different places as Fujiwari troops swarmed past the shallow swampy pit and scaled the sloped stone wall. The fighting was fierce, but the Fujiwari couldn't get the numbers over wall quickly enough to reinforce their breach and were pushed back and down over the wall. Dead and dying were counted on both sides, with heads of particularly important personages collected. General Ota pushed his men to shore up the defenses through the night, and the dead were given their proper respect.

Path-Shaper, on 03 August 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

It is Day 4. less than a minute remaining

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Rashan ( Hanas, Rashan, Mockra, Korbas, Tellan, Trake, Galain )
2 Votes for Mockra ( Alkend, Barghast )

Players not voted: Anthras, Eloth, Gait, Jalan, Okaros

Path-Shaper, on 05 August 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

According to the timestamp, both Galain and Jalan's votes are too late. It is now night 5.

Galain, on 05 August 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Vote RashanVote Rashan

It is Day 5. Day timed out 2 minutes before Galain made that post.

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

6 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend, Tellan, Eloth, Gait, Korbas )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan

No lynch.

-gnaw

Gnaw, on 06 August 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

Captain Nagao Tamemasa looked at the defenders arrayed before him in the courtyard. The siege had taken its toll. Bored, desultory looks, disheveled armor and posture that spoke of defeat, despite the fact the walls still held, and there were defenders still standing to defend them.

Tamemasa was afraid, knowing that one strong push by the Fujiwari could very well shatter them. And worst of all, these men seemed disinclined to even raise a weapon in response.

Surely the gods were raging...or laughing.

It is Day 6. 1 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Tellan, Trake


7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.


6 Votes for Jalan ( Galain, Eloth, Alkend, Okaros, Mockra, Tellan, Jalan )


Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Gait, Korbas, Trake

That is a lynch

Jalan is dead. He was Gendo Kajiwara of Arai castle and HiddenOne.

Let's count for each person the number of times they didn't vote by the end of the day, the number of times they voted on the biggest train and how many times they voted somewhere else:



missed vote/voted someone else/biggest train

Barghast - 2/1/3
Galain - 2/0/4
Alkend - 0/3/3
Korbas - 1/2/3
Tellan - 1/0/5
Trake - 2/1/3
Mockra - 2/2/2
Gait - 2/2/2
Eloth - 3/1/2
Okaros - 3/2/1
Anthras - 5/0/1



I don't really remember much from Tellan all game, but other than day 1 he's been voting on the biggest train every single day. Galain also surprised me with that high of a number, and one of his missed lynch counts was only a miss by a few minutes.

So when day resumes, I think we should be looking most closely at Tellan and Galain, as well as Korbas, because I just don't see scum missing all that many votes.

Okaros, I'm glad you're trying to look for new suspects, but this seems a bit shaky, because the distinction between town and scum you're making is whether they don't want a no-lynch, or really don't want a no-lynch, which seems a bit of an odd metric to use. It's been drilled into my head as town that it is never a good idea to no-lynch (strengthened by all the stories of vets talking about how they were lynched day one for voting night, and then learned that lynching is always a better choice)
Also, you say more info is gained on thread each day, but what you don't mention is that a huge part of that information is through lynches. This line of reasoning seems to be a bit of a stretch to me.

Look, Tellan is clearly a smart player. His posts are well thought out and that SOUND smart.

But once you actually look at it, he hasn't done anyhting short of "suggesting" possible lynch targets,a nd then voting towards the end of the train, usually prefacing it with a "I'm voting, because I have to. Because it's what a good town must do. Good town must lynch"

Frankly, I got two issues.

1) He doesn't follow through on anything he says

2) he's playing it too safe, trying as hard as he can to be an unconfrontational town, always ready to vote, because it's what a good townie does. He's trying too hard.

vote Tellan

[Barghast]

should be "more than suggest" in that last post.

K, i'm out to actually do work. discuss.

[Gait]

Huhm. Big case. A lot of it boils down to posting style I think, which, as you say, is fairly non-confrontational, but how many of us are Vengeance or DKT?
Overall, I guess the tl;dr is: Tellan's game plan boils down to:

1) the Lynch is holy and must happen regardless of target;
2) do not disagree openly with others;
3) leave an outspoken margin of doubt when voting.

I can vote for this.

Remove vote
Vote Tellan

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 7. 26 hours remaining
10 Players still alive: Alkend, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Tellan, Trake

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Eloth ( Okaros )
2 Votes for Tellan ( Barghast, Gait )

Players not voted: Alkend, Eloth, Galain, Korbas, Mockra, Tellan, Trake

[Tellan]

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Ok, I just looked in for a sec, and seriously rashan, what the fuck are you doing?' Are you trying to lose the game for town?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Checking in again, sorry I haven't been more active today, birthday stuff got in the way. If Rashan don't want to play, might as well

Vote Rashan

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Galain, on 06 August 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I read it wrong. I thought you were suggesting he lay out his role PM in a pretty much quoted form so he'd be Modkilled

We'll it's certainly one way of doing it but not what I had in mind. Would be nice for him to be around to discuss what he knows for a time rather than immediately taken out.

I agree with you, I probably should've read more closely.

Rashan, anything you know that could help us?

That last one is once again to show how un-confrontational Tellan is, even in little things.

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Im here.... I guess I'll vote, we need a lynch

Vote Jalan

Anyone notice the trend of these "I guess I have to" votes?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Just got out from dinner, did a speed readup, and I guess we have no choice.

He then gets called out on it:

Tellan, on 07 August 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Okaros, on 07 August 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Well it's still night but I'm not really averse to talking at night, especially in M&P games. Whether you sound off during the day or night the WIFOM can still always creep in.

So anyways, we're in a situation here we don't normally get into - that of having missed a lot of lynches. Generally, yeah, it's bad for town to miss many lynches, but on the other hand it is REALLY bad for scum. Scum is absolutely vested in getting rid of town in as few nights as possible, both because it means less info from the thread itself and also because it's fewer nights for them to be found by a healer. Plus, in general, scum tend to be more involved in the game due to their role. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll post more, but they're more likely to be keeping track of it and not miss day timing out. So given that we've had many days with a lot of people not voting, I suggest that we may be able to narrow down the scum by looking at who did and didn't vote a lot.

Path-Shaper, on 30 July 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 0 hours and 0 minutes remaining.
19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Barghast ( Korbas )
2 Votes for Desra ( Cast, D'riss )
1 Vote for Liosan ( Alkend )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Kalse, Gait, Jalan, Barghast, Liosan )

Players not voted: Anthras, Desra, Eloth, Galain, Hanas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake


Gen watched the Fujiwari troops from his post on the Western wall. The enemy soldiers seemed intent on completing their entrenchments, but not much else. He turned, the banner attached to the back of his armor whipping in the early Spring wind. "Keep an eye on their forward pickets. I'm going for a piss."
"But we don't know how many of them there are. Should we get an accurate count?" replied a bushy eyebrowed spearman.
Gen stopped, turned back and said "We've all been speculating on that for a while now. But the truth is for us we really only need to worry about one thing, we hold this wall. That's all you need to know. I'm going for a piss."
And what a lovely, long arching piss it was.

Day 1 is over. No one was lynched.

It is now Night 1. Please submit your actions ASAP.

Path-Shaper, on 31 July 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 7 hours and 56 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Rashan ( Cast )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait, Trake, Liosan )
1 Vote for Desra ( Korbas )
10 Votes for Cast ( Barghast, Rashan, Alkend, Tellan, Desra, Anthras, Kalse, D'riss, Hanas, Galain)

Players not voted: Eloth, Jalan


That is a lynch.

Cast is dead. He was Yasuhide Narumasa and Peanutbutta of Arai Castle

The Takeda spy watched from his position on the small hill well beyond the Fujiwari line. So far not much was happening, the Fujiwari seemed uncharacteristcally cautious. They seemed more content to shift their formations and send messages to and fro. The spy plucked a nearby grassroot to chew on and absently scratched his arse. The flies on this hill were getting worse.
A new set of motion caught his eye, on the plain just East of the castle a larger skirmish was taking place. It seemed a group of messengers and escorts had encountered a small sortie from the castle. I furious exchange of blows with several soldiers toppling from their saddles. Some got up again, a few others did not. The agent bit through his grass stem and turned back to the main field of Fujiwari soldiers. He hoped something worthwhile happened soon, so he could make a decent report.

Path-Shaper, on 02 August 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is Day 3. 81 minutes since time out with 9 minutes of time extension left.


16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

9 Votes for D'riss ( Barghast, Trake, Kalse, Galain, Korbas, Jalan, Tellan, Rashan, Hanas )
3 Votes for Rashan ( Gait, Alkend, D'riss)
1 Vote for Jalan ( Eloth )
2 Votes for Alkend ( Mockra, Okaros )

Players not voted: Anthras

D'riss is dead. He was Kenshiro Mochizuki and Lady Bliss of Edo Castle.

Most of the 3rd day of the siege saw small skirmishes back and forth, mostly arrow fire and small groups of warriors squaring off in challenges for personal honor and glory. Just past dark saw a main thrusting attack of the Fujiwari. The wall defenses were overwhelmed in two different places as Fujiwari troops swarmed past the shallow swampy pit and scaled the sloped stone wall. The fighting was fierce, but the Fujiwari couldn't get the numbers over wall quickly enough to reinforce their breach and were pushed back and down over the wall. Dead and dying were counted on both sides, with heads of particularly important personages collected. General Ota pushed his men to shore up the defenses through the night, and the dead were given their proper respect.

Path-Shaper, on 03 August 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

It is Day 4. less than a minute remaining

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Rashan ( Hanas, Rashan, Mockra, Korbas, Tellan, Trake, Galain )
2 Votes for Mockra ( Alkend, Barghast )

Players not voted: Anthras, Eloth, Gait, Jalan, Okaros

Path-Shaper, on 05 August 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

According to the timestamp, both Galain and Jalan's votes are too late. It is now night 5.

Galain, on 05 August 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Vote RashanVote Rashan

It is Day 5. Day timed out 2 minutes before Galain made that post.

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

6 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend, Tellan, Eloth, Gait, Korbas )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan

No lynch.

-gnaw

Gnaw, on 06 August 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

Captain Nagao Tamemasa looked at the defenders arrayed before him in the courtyard. The siege had taken its toll. Bored, desultory looks, disheveled armor and posture that spoke of defeat, despite the fact the walls still held, and there were defenders still standing to defend them.

Tamemasa was afraid, knowing that one strong push by the Fujiwari could very well shatter them. And worst of all, these men seemed disinclined to even raise a weapon in response.

Surely the gods were raging...or laughing.

It is Day 6. 1 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Tellan, Trake


7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.


6 Votes for Jalan ( Galain, Eloth, Alkend, Okaros, Mockra, Tellan, Jalan )


Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Gait, Korbas, Trake

That is a lynch

Jalan is dead. He was Gendo Kajiwara of Arai castle and HiddenOne.

Let's count for each person the number of times they didn't vote by the end of the day, the number of times they voted on the biggest train and how many times they voted somewhere else:



missed vote/voted someone else/biggest train

Barghast - 2/1/3
Galain - 2/0/4
Alkend - 0/3/3
Korbas - 1/2/3
Tellan - 1/0/5
Trake - 2/1/3
Mockra - 2/2/2
Gait - 2/2/2
Eloth - 3/1/2
Okaros - 3/2/1
Anthras - 5/0/1



I don't really remember much from Tellan all game, but other than day 1 he's been voting on the biggest train every single day. Galain also surprised me with that high of a number, and one of his missed lynch counts was only a miss by a few minutes.

So when day resumes, I think we should be looking most closely at Tellan and Galain, as well as Korbas, because I just don't see scum missing all that many votes.

Okaros, I'm glad you're trying to look for new suspects, but this seems a bit shaky, because the distinction between town and scum you're making is whether they don't want a no-lynch, or really don't want a no-lynch, which seems a bit of an odd metric to use. It's been drilled into my head as town that it is never a good idea to no-lynch (strengthened by all the stories of vets talking about how they were lynched day one for voting night, and then learned that lynching is always a better choice)
Also, you say more info is gained on thread each day, but what you don't mention is that a huge part of that information is through lynches. This line of reasoning seems to be a bit of a stretch to me.

Look, Tellan is clearly a smart player. His posts are well thought out and that SOUND smart.

But once you actually look at it, he hasn't done anyhting short of "suggesting" possible lynch targets,a nd then voting towards the end of the train, usually prefacing it with a "I'm voting, because I have to. Because it's what a good town must do. Good town must lynch"

Frankly, I got two issues.

1) He doesn't follow through on anything he says
All of my analyses this game have been for one thing: spurring discussion. I brought up multiple people, and said what I thought on them, and hoped for others to put their opinions out there in response. For most of this game, that hasn't happened, and frankly, it's been frustrating to me. Out of the multiple people I brought up, however, none of them seemed scummy enough to warrant a vote from me, and as I said days ago, clearing up the thread by lynching Rashan was important, because if we didn't do so it could have actually cost us the game, by people voting him on D-Day because he wasn't trusted. So that's the reason for my Rashan votes. D'riss was my first case, which I didn't vote on at the beginning because I wanted to hear others' input and bounce ideas off of others, plus hear D'riss' defence. Once that happened, I voted D'riss. On the other four, they didn't seem scummy enough to warrant a vote at that point. However, I'm going to check out Okaros again, because I have a vague recollection of another scummy post by him, though I can't remember where.

2) he's playing it too safe, trying as hard as he can to be an unconfrontational town, always ready to vote, because it's what a good townie does. He's trying too hard.
I won't use this as a defense, but being non confrontational is how I always play, regardless of alignment. On being ready to vote, as I've stated many times before, and in how I responded to Okaros, most of Town's info comes from lynches, and having missed a good deal of them makes me feel the need to get on the biggest train should there be little time left, which what has happened with me multiple times this game.

vote Tellan

Also, Gait's quick switch to me is interesting. Right from someone who can't defend themselves to someone who just had a case made on them. Pretty suspicious. I'll check out Okaros, and then maybe take a look at Gait.

[Barghast]

Gait, on 07 August 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Huhm. Big case. A lot of it boils down to posting style I think, which, as you say, is fairly non-confrontational, but how many of us are Vengeance or DKT?
Overall, I guess the tl;dr is: Tellan's game plan boils down to:

1) the Lynch is holy and must happen regardless of target;
2) do not disagree openly with others;
3) leave an outspoken margin of doubt when voting.

I can vote for this.

Remove vote
Vote Tellan

Gait, there's a bit more to it. Tellan's clearly got the brains for the game. But the hasn't openly attacked anyone. all his "cases" conclude with "well, there's some scummy behavior here I could vote for, but i'll hold off for now'. Every. Single. One.

By this logic, all he'd need to do is take a same type of closer look at those he hasn't analyzed yet, and he'd find someone's who's deffo scum. But he hasn't done that. Instead he faffs about and then jumps on an already formed train, making sure to reiterate how town-like his behavior is. It's a great place to hide, but I feel he's trying too hard. I can understand saying "look I don't like it but we a need a lynch" once or twice, but Tellan does it every single time.

[Tellan]

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

Gait, on 07 August 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Huhm. Big case. A lot of it boils down to posting style I think, which, as you say, is fairly non-confrontational, but how many of us are Vengeance or DKT?
Overall, I guess the tl;dr is: Tellan's game plan boils down to:

1) the Lynch is holy and must happen regardless of target;
2) do not disagree openly with others;
3) leave an outspoken margin of doubt when voting.

I can vote for this.

Remove vote
Vote Tellan

Gait, there's a bit more to it. Tellan's clearly got the brains for the game. But the hasn't openly attacked anyone. all his "cases" conclude with "well, there's some scummy behavior here I could vote for, but i'll hold off for now'. Every. Single. One.
I have to disagree here. There were multiple where I said that I wanted to keep an eye on them, but there wasn't enough scummy behavior to warrant a vote, and others where I said there isn't really any scummy behavior. Reread my posts.
By this logic, all he'd need to do is take a same type of closer look at those he hasn't analyzed yet, and he'd find someone's who's deffo scum. But he hasn't done that. Instead he faffs about and then jumps on an already formed train, making sure to reiterate how town-like his behavior is. It's a great place to hide, but I feel he's trying too hard. I can understand saying "look I don't like it but we a need a lynch" once or twice, but Tellan does it every single time.

[Barghast]

Tellan, on 07 August 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Ok, I just looked in for a sec, and seriously rashan, what the fuck are you doing?' Are you trying to lose the game for town?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Checking in again, sorry I haven't been more active today, birthday stuff got in the way. If Rashan don't want to play, might as well

Vote Rashan

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Galain, on 06 August 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I read it wrong. I thought you were suggesting he lay out his role PM in a pretty much quoted form so he'd be Modkilled

We'll it's certainly one way of doing it but not what I had in mind. Would be nice for him to be around to discuss what he knows for a time rather than immediately taken out.

I agree with you, I probably should've read more closely.

Rashan, anything you know that could help us?

That last one is once again to show how un-confrontational Tellan is, even in little things.

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Im here.... I guess I'll vote, we need a lynch

Vote Jalan

Anyone notice the trend of these "I guess I have to" votes?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Just got out from dinner, did a speed readup, and I guess we have no choice.

He then gets called out on it:

Tellan, on 07 August 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Okaros, on 07 August 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Well it's still night but I'm not really averse to talking at night, especially in M&P games. Whether you sound off during the day or night the WIFOM can still always creep in.

So anyways, we're in a situation here we don't normally get into - that of having missed a lot of lynches. Generally, yeah, it's bad for town to miss many lynches, but on the other hand it is REALLY bad for scum. Scum is absolutely vested in getting rid of town in as few nights as possible, both because it means less info from the thread itself and also because it's fewer nights for them to be found by a healer. Plus, in general, scum tend to be more involved in the game due to their role. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll post more, but they're more likely to be keeping track of it and not miss day timing out. So given that we've had many days with a lot of people not voting, I suggest that we may be able to narrow down the scum by looking at who did and didn't vote a lot.

Path-Shaper, on 30 July 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 0 hours and 0 minutes remaining.
19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Barghast ( Korbas )
2 Votes for Desra ( Cast, D'riss )
1 Vote for Liosan ( Alkend )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Kalse, Gait, Jalan, Barghast, Liosan )

Players not voted: Anthras, Desra, Eloth, Galain, Hanas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake


Gen watched the Fujiwari troops from his post on the Western wall. The enemy soldiers seemed intent on completing their entrenchments, but not much else. He turned, the banner attached to the back of his armor whipping in the early Spring wind. "Keep an eye on their forward pickets. I'm going for a piss."
"But we don't know how many of them there are. Should we get an accurate count?" replied a bushy eyebrowed spearman.
Gen stopped, turned back and said "We've all been speculating on that for a while now. But the truth is for us we really only need to worry about one thing, we hold this wall. That's all you need to know. I'm going for a piss."
And what a lovely, long arching piss it was.

Day 1 is over. No one was lynched.

It is now Night 1. Please submit your actions ASAP.

Path-Shaper, on 31 July 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 7 hours and 56 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Rashan ( Cast )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait, Trake, Liosan )
1 Vote for Desra ( Korbas )
10 Votes for Cast ( Barghast, Rashan, Alkend, Tellan, Desra, Anthras, Kalse, D'riss, Hanas, Galain)

Players not voted: Eloth, Jalan


That is a lynch.

Cast is dead. He was Yasuhide Narumasa and Peanutbutta of Arai Castle

The Takeda spy watched from his position on the small hill well beyond the Fujiwari line. So far not much was happening, the Fujiwari seemed uncharacteristcally cautious. They seemed more content to shift their formations and send messages to and fro. The spy plucked a nearby grassroot to chew on and absently scratched his arse. The flies on this hill were getting worse.
A new set of motion caught his eye, on the plain just East of the castle a larger skirmish was taking place. It seemed a group of messengers and escorts had encountered a small sortie from the castle. I furious exchange of blows with several soldiers toppling from their saddles. Some got up again, a few others did not. The agent bit through his grass stem and turned back to the main field of Fujiwari soldiers. He hoped something worthwhile happened soon, so he could make a decent report.

Path-Shaper, on 02 August 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is Day 3. 81 minutes since time out with 9 minutes of time extension left.


16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

9 Votes for D'riss ( Barghast, Trake, Kalse, Galain, Korbas, Jalan, Tellan, Rashan, Hanas )
3 Votes for Rashan ( Gait, Alkend, D'riss)
1 Vote for Jalan ( Eloth )
2 Votes for Alkend ( Mockra, Okaros )

Players not voted: Anthras

D'riss is dead. He was Kenshiro Mochizuki and Lady Bliss of Edo Castle.

Most of the 3rd day of the siege saw small skirmishes back and forth, mostly arrow fire and small groups of warriors squaring off in challenges for personal honor and glory. Just past dark saw a main thrusting attack of the Fujiwari. The wall defenses were overwhelmed in two different places as Fujiwari troops swarmed past the shallow swampy pit and scaled the sloped stone wall. The fighting was fierce, but the Fujiwari couldn't get the numbers over wall quickly enough to reinforce their breach and were pushed back and down over the wall. Dead and dying were counted on both sides, with heads of particularly important personages collected. General Ota pushed his men to shore up the defenses through the night, and the dead were given their proper respect.

Path-Shaper, on 03 August 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

It is Day 4. less than a minute remaining

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Rashan ( Hanas, Rashan, Mockra, Korbas, Tellan, Trake, Galain )
2 Votes for Mockra ( Alkend, Barghast )

Players not voted: Anthras, Eloth, Gait, Jalan, Okaros

Path-Shaper, on 05 August 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

According to the timestamp, both Galain and Jalan's votes are too late. It is now night 5.

Galain, on 05 August 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Vote RashanVote Rashan

It is Day 5. Day timed out 2 minutes before Galain made that post.

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

6 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend, Tellan, Eloth, Gait, Korbas )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan

No lynch.

-gnaw

Gnaw, on 06 August 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

Captain Nagao Tamemasa looked at the defenders arrayed before him in the courtyard. The siege had taken its toll. Bored, desultory looks, disheveled armor and posture that spoke of defeat, despite the fact the walls still held, and there were defenders still standing to defend them.

Tamemasa was afraid, knowing that one strong push by the Fujiwari could very well shatter them. And worst of all, these men seemed disinclined to even raise a weapon in response.

Surely the gods were raging...or laughing.

It is Day 6. 1 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Tellan, Trake


7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.


6 Votes for Jalan ( Galain, Eloth, Alkend, Okaros, Mockra, Tellan, Jalan )


Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Gait, Korbas, Trake

That is a lynch

Jalan is dead. He was Gendo Kajiwara of Arai castle and HiddenOne.

Let's count for each person the number of times they didn't vote by the end of the day, the number of times they voted on the biggest train and how many times they voted somewhere else:



missed vote/voted someone else/biggest train

Barghast - 2/1/3
Galain - 2/0/4
Alkend - 0/3/3
Korbas - 1/2/3
Tellan - 1/0/5
Trake - 2/1/3
Mockra - 2/2/2
Gait - 2/2/2
Eloth - 3/1/2
Okaros - 3/2/1
Anthras - 5/0/1



I don't really remember much from Tellan all game, but other than day 1 he's been voting on the biggest train every single day. Galain also surprised me with that high of a number, and one of his missed lynch counts was only a miss by a few minutes.

So when day resumes, I think we should be looking most closely at Tellan and Galain, as well as Korbas, because I just don't see scum missing all that many votes.

Okaros, I'm glad you're trying to look for new suspects, but this seems a bit shaky, because the distinction between town and scum you're making is whether they don't want a no-lynch, or really don't want a no-lynch, which seems a bit of an odd metric to use. It's been drilled into my head as town that it is never a good idea to no-lynch (strengthened by all the stories of vets talking about how they were lynched day one for voting night, and then learned that lynching is always a better choice)
Also, you say more info is gained on thread each day, but what you don't mention is that a huge part of that information is through lynches. This line of reasoning seems to be a bit of a stretch to me.

Look, Tellan is clearly a smart player. His posts are well thought out and that SOUND smart.

But once you actually look at it, he hasn't done anyhting short of "suggesting" possible lynch targets,a nd then voting towards the end of the train, usually prefacing it with a "I'm voting, because I have to. Because it's what a good town must do. Good town must lynch"

Frankly, I got two issues.

1) He doesn't follow through on anything he says
All of my analyses this game have been for one thing: spurring discussion. I brought up multiple people, and said what I thought on them, and hoped for others to put their opinions out there in response. For most of this game, that hasn't happened, and frankly, it's been frustrating to me. Out of the multiple people I brought up, however, none of them seemed scummy enough to warrant a vote from me, and as I said days ago, clearing up the thread by lynching Rashan was important, because if we didn't do so it could have actually cost us the game, by people voting him on D-Day because he wasn't trusted. So that's the reason for my Rashan votes. D'riss was my first case, which I didn't vote on at the beginning because I wanted to hear others' input and bounce ideas off of others, plus hear D'riss' defence. Once that happened, I voted D'riss. On the other four, they didn't seem scummy enough to warrant a vote at that point. However, I'm going to check out Okaros again, because I have a vague recollection of another scummy post by him, though I can't remember where.

1 vote does not a lynch make. But the first vote IS most often scrutinised if the lynch ends up being on an inno. voting first is making a definitive statement--which is somehting you've consistently avoided all game. I don't buy that you were afraid to put down the first vote because you were afraid of a speedlynch.

2) he's playing it too safe, trying as hard as he can to be an unconfrontational town, always ready to vote, because it's what a good townie does. He's trying too hard.
I won't use this as a defense, but being non confrontational is how I always play, regardless of alignment. On being ready to vote, as I've stated many times before, and in how I responded to Okaros, most of Town's info comes from lynches, and having missed a good deal of them makes me feel the need to get on the biggest train should there be little time left, which what has happened with me multiple times this game.

Town info does NOT come from lynches. Town info comes from DISCUSSION surrounding the lynches. empty pileup lynches tell you one thing only--that town are too lazy/stupid to think and are willing to gamble at terrible odds. There is absolutely no merit in pushing for a lynch for the sake of a lynch if the case is shit. Shit lynches are only a source of info on who pushed them--which in this case points us, among others, straight back to you. Every train post D'riss lynch has been shit, but instead of sitting down and trying to figure out why, you've been pushing Rashan lynch for 3 days in a row (when we were nowhere close to D-Day). The late day pileup on Jalan was equally pointless, and gave you no info whatsoever, but you voted regardless, because "we need to lynch"

tell me, what information have we gained from lynch trains and surrounding discussion in the now 3 days post D'riss lynch?


vote Tellan

Also, Gait's quick switch to me is interesting. Right from someone who can't defend themselves to someone who just had a case made on them. Pretty suspicious. I'll check out Okaros, and then maybe take a look at Gait.

[Tellan]

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Tellan, on 07 August 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Ok, I just looked in for a sec, and seriously rashan, what the fuck are you doing?' Are you trying to lose the game for town?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Checking in again, sorry I haven't been more active today, birthday stuff got in the way. If Rashan don't want to play, might as well

Vote Rashan

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Galain, on 06 August 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I read it wrong. I thought you were suggesting he lay out his role PM in a pretty much quoted form so he'd be Modkilled

We'll it's certainly one way of doing it but not what I had in mind. Would be nice for him to be around to discuss what he knows for a time rather than immediately taken out.

I agree with you, I probably should've read more closely.

Rashan, anything you know that could help us?

That last one is once again to show how un-confrontational Tellan is, even in little things.

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Im here.... I guess I'll vote, we need a lynch

Vote Jalan

Anyone notice the trend of these "I guess I have to" votes?

Tellan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Just got out from dinner, did a speed readup, and I guess we have no choice.

He then gets called out on it:

Tellan, on 07 August 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Okaros, on 07 August 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Well it's still night but I'm not really averse to talking at night, especially in M&P games. Whether you sound off during the day or night the WIFOM can still always creep in.

So anyways, we're in a situation here we don't normally get into - that of having missed a lot of lynches. Generally, yeah, it's bad for town to miss many lynches, but on the other hand it is REALLY bad for scum. Scum is absolutely vested in getting rid of town in as few nights as possible, both because it means less info from the thread itself and also because it's fewer nights for them to be found by a healer. Plus, in general, scum tend to be more involved in the game due to their role. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll post more, but they're more likely to be keeping track of it and not miss day timing out. So given that we've had many days with a lot of people not voting, I suggest that we may be able to narrow down the scum by looking at who did and didn't vote a lot.

Path-Shaper, on 30 July 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 0 hours and 0 minutes remaining.
19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Barghast ( Korbas )
2 Votes for Desra ( Cast, D'riss )
1 Vote for Liosan ( Alkend )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Kalse, Gait, Jalan, Barghast, Liosan )

Players not voted: Anthras, Desra, Eloth, Galain, Hanas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake


Gen watched the Fujiwari troops from his post on the Western wall. The enemy soldiers seemed intent on completing their entrenchments, but not much else. He turned, the banner attached to the back of his armor whipping in the early Spring wind. "Keep an eye on their forward pickets. I'm going for a piss."
"But we don't know how many of them there are. Should we get an accurate count?" replied a bushy eyebrowed spearman.
Gen stopped, turned back and said "We've all been speculating on that for a while now. But the truth is for us we really only need to worry about one thing, we hold this wall. That's all you need to know. I'm going for a piss."
And what a lovely, long arching piss it was.

Day 1 is over. No one was lynched.

It is now Night 1. Please submit your actions ASAP.

Path-Shaper, on 31 July 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 7 hours and 56 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Rashan ( Cast )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait, Trake, Liosan )
1 Vote for Desra ( Korbas )
10 Votes for Cast ( Barghast, Rashan, Alkend, Tellan, Desra, Anthras, Kalse, D'riss, Hanas, Galain)

Players not voted: Eloth, Jalan


That is a lynch.

Cast is dead. He was Yasuhide Narumasa and Peanutbutta of Arai Castle

The Takeda spy watched from his position on the small hill well beyond the Fujiwari line. So far not much was happening, the Fujiwari seemed uncharacteristcally cautious. They seemed more content to shift their formations and send messages to and fro. The spy plucked a nearby grassroot to chew on and absently scratched his arse. The flies on this hill were getting worse.
A new set of motion caught his eye, on the plain just East of the castle a larger skirmish was taking place. It seemed a group of messengers and escorts had encountered a small sortie from the castle. I furious exchange of blows with several soldiers toppling from their saddles. Some got up again, a few others did not. The agent bit through his grass stem and turned back to the main field of Fujiwari soldiers. He hoped something worthwhile happened soon, so he could make a decent report.

Path-Shaper, on 02 August 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is Day 3. 81 minutes since time out with 9 minutes of time extension left.


16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

9 Votes for D'riss ( Barghast, Trake, Kalse, Galain, Korbas, Jalan, Tellan, Rashan, Hanas )
3 Votes for Rashan ( Gait, Alkend, D'riss)
1 Vote for Jalan ( Eloth )
2 Votes for Alkend ( Mockra, Okaros )

Players not voted: Anthras

D'riss is dead. He was Kenshiro Mochizuki and Lady Bliss of Edo Castle.

Most of the 3rd day of the siege saw small skirmishes back and forth, mostly arrow fire and small groups of warriors squaring off in challenges for personal honor and glory. Just past dark saw a main thrusting attack of the Fujiwari. The wall defenses were overwhelmed in two different places as Fujiwari troops swarmed past the shallow swampy pit and scaled the sloped stone wall. The fighting was fierce, but the Fujiwari couldn't get the numbers over wall quickly enough to reinforce their breach and were pushed back and down over the wall. Dead and dying were counted on both sides, with heads of particularly important personages collected. General Ota pushed his men to shore up the defenses through the night, and the dead were given their proper respect.

Path-Shaper, on 03 August 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

It is Day 4. less than a minute remaining

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Rashan ( Hanas, Rashan, Mockra, Korbas, Tellan, Trake, Galain )
2 Votes for Mockra ( Alkend, Barghast )

Players not voted: Anthras, Eloth, Gait, Jalan, Okaros

Path-Shaper, on 05 August 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

According to the timestamp, both Galain and Jalan's votes are too late. It is now night 5.

Galain, on 05 August 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Vote RashanVote Rashan

It is Day 5. Day timed out 2 minutes before Galain made that post.

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

6 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend, Tellan, Eloth, Gait, Korbas )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan

No lynch.

-gnaw

Gnaw, on 06 August 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

Captain Nagao Tamemasa looked at the defenders arrayed before him in the courtyard. The siege had taken its toll. Bored, desultory looks, disheveled armor and posture that spoke of defeat, despite the fact the walls still held, and there were defenders still standing to defend them.

Tamemasa was afraid, knowing that one strong push by the Fujiwari could very well shatter them. And worst of all, these men seemed disinclined to even raise a weapon in response.

Surely the gods were raging...or laughing.

It is Day 6. 1 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Tellan, Trake


7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.


6 Votes for Jalan ( Galain, Eloth, Alkend, Okaros, Mockra, Tellan, Jalan )


Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Gait, Korbas, Trake

That is a lynch

Jalan is dead. He was Gendo Kajiwara of Arai castle and HiddenOne.

Let's count for each person the number of times they didn't vote by the end of the day, the number of times they voted on the biggest train and how many times they voted somewhere else:



missed vote/voted someone else/biggest train

Barghast - 2/1/3
Galain - 2/0/4
Alkend - 0/3/3
Korbas - 1/2/3
Tellan - 1/0/5
Trake - 2/1/3
Mockra - 2/2/2
Gait - 2/2/2
Eloth - 3/1/2
Okaros - 3/2/1
Anthras - 5/0/1



I don't really remember much from Tellan all game, but other than day 1 he's been voting on the biggest train every single day. Galain also surprised me with that high of a number, and one of his missed lynch counts was only a miss by a few minutes.

So when day resumes, I think we should be looking most closely at Tellan and Galain, as well as Korbas, because I just don't see scum missing all that many votes.

Okaros, I'm glad you're trying to look for new suspects, but this seems a bit shaky, because the distinction between town and scum you're making is whether they don't want a no-lynch, or really don't want a no-lynch, which seems a bit of an odd metric to use. It's been drilled into my head as town that it is never a good idea to no-lynch (strengthened by all the stories of vets talking about how they were lynched day one for voting night, and then learned that lynching is always a better choice)
Also, you say more info is gained on thread each day, but what you don't mention is that a huge part of that information is through lynches. This line of reasoning seems to be a bit of a stretch to me.

Look, Tellan is clearly a smart player. His posts are well thought out and that SOUND smart.

But once you actually look at it, he hasn't done anyhting short of "suggesting" possible lynch targets,a nd then voting towards the end of the train, usually prefacing it with a "I'm voting, because I have to. Because it's what a good town must do. Good town must lynch"

Frankly, I got two issues.

1) He doesn't follow through on anything he says
All of my analyses this game have been for one thing: spurring discussion. I brought up multiple people, and said what I thought on them, and hoped for others to put their opinions out there in response. For most of this game, that hasn't happened, and frankly, it's been frustrating to me. Out of the multiple people I brought up, however, none of them seemed scummy enough to warrant a vote from me, and as I said days ago, clearing up the thread by lynching Rashan was important, because if we didn't do so it could have actually cost us the game, by people voting him on D-Day because he wasn't trusted. So that's the reason for my Rashan votes. D'riss was my first case, which I didn't vote on at the beginning because I wanted to hear others' input and bounce ideas off of others, plus hear D'riss' defence. Once that happened, I voted D'riss. On the other four, they didn't seem scummy enough to warrant a vote at that point. However, I'm going to check out Okaros again, because I have a vague recollection of another scummy post by him, though I can't remember where.

1 vote does not a lynch make. But the first vote IS most often scrutinised if the lynch ends up being on an inno. voting first is making a definitive statement--which is somehting you've consistently avoided all game. I don't buy that you were afraid to put down the first vote because you were afraid of a speedlynch.

Did I ever say I was afraid of a speedlynch? Don't strawman. You're ignoring what I'm saying. I wanted to get discussion, which seemed hard to come by this game.And when a vote goes down, at least in my opinion, it is a definitive statement that out of all players, you believe they are the best person to lynch at that moment. I wanted to get the input of others so I could make that statement with more logic, reasoning, etc. Also, should someone come on and defend the target, that could also give more info. Though it didn't happen, it could've made me much more convinced D'riss was scum, and then I would have happily voted first.

2) he's playing it too safe, trying as hard as he can to be an unconfrontational town, always ready to vote, because it's what a good townie does. He's trying too hard.
I won't use this as a defense, but being non confrontational is how I always play, regardless of alignment. On being ready to vote, as I've stated many times before, and in how I responded to Okaros, most of Town's info comes from lynches, and having missed a good deal of them makes me feel the need to get on the biggest train should there be little time left, which what has happened with me multiple times this game.

Town info does NOT come from lynches. Town info comes from DISCUSSION surrounding the lynches. empty pileup lynches tell you one thing only--that town are too lazy/stupid to think and are willing to gamble at terrible odds. There is absolutely no merit in pushing for a lynch for the sake of a lynch if the case is shit. Shit lynches are only a source of info on who pushed them--which in this case points us, among others, straight back to you. Every train post D'riss lynch has been shit, but instead of sitting down and trying to figure out why, you've been pushing Rashan lynch for 3 days in a row (when we were nowhere close to D-Day). The late day pileup on Jalan was equally pointless, and gave you no info whatsoever, but you voted regardless, because "we need to lynch"

tell me, what information have we gained from lynch trains and surrounding discussion in the now 3 days post D'riss lynch?

So you think that no-lynching every day would help town just as much as shit-lynches. I don't. Every extra player in the game is a bigger group for scum to hide in. Lynching narrows down the targets, and when one of the people who could be lynched was clouding the thread, to me it made sense to try to clear the thread. Also, had more people been online, we could have lynched Rashan days ago, gotten the CF, and moved on to what we're finally doing now. Every post (non-spam) since that day has information in it, but in many of them there isn't much. But when there is information, it comes to town to analyze it. I've been trying to do that, unlike most of us, and now you are. That's good, but attacking one of the few people analyzing the thread isn't going to help town.

vote Tellan

Also, Gait's quick switch to me is interesting. Right from someone who can't defend themselves to someone who just had a case made on them. Pretty suspicious. I'll check out Okaros, and then maybe take a look at Gait.

[Tellan]

So the big thing's I've seen on a quick read over of Gait's posts is he does a lot of early game role/mechanic spec.

After the Cast lynch, he PI's Barghy and Okaros, and Alkend. He was a big part of the PI-ing shenanigans, which make me uncomfortable, but I don't think scum would do that on thread so obviously. However, he could be setting the stage to frame any of the three PI's as being connected with him should he be lynched. Suspicious to me, not enough for a vote alone in and of itself, but it makes me want to look deeper.

Gait, on 01 August 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Personally, I am going to PI Okaros, Barghast and (le sigh) Alkend. Two for having a brain, the last for having a town role. Trake I'd rather not lynch either.
Then there's a bunch of people who have blood on their mind regardless who's blood it is. I don't like that.


I honest to god really don't like Rashan. He was going on and on about dragon sex while a lynch train was coming together, was around for ages but didn't contribute shit and yet had the audicity to ask people to think and put stuff on thread. Coasting through a crisis is being non-commital. being non-commital is scummy.

Vote Rashan.

He goes on to say he doesn't trust Alkend at all, and finds the whole reveal debacle to be suspicious, yet PI's alkend anyway. More suspicious. He also say's it's doing scum's work for them. And yet scum hasn't killed alkend yet, despite multiple days to do so. This rings some warning bells.

Gait, on 01 August 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

In that light: I will not vote Alkend today. I think for now he is PI, and while I will examine his every word like an alien species on an autopsy table, the PI status means that lynching him is doing scum's work for them. I am not going to do that.


If Alkend was scum and Cast was his symp coming to his rescue, we would have gotten an inno CF anyway.
If Cast wanted to avoid attention or turn a lynch, all he ahd to do was claim work was difficult, drag up a different case and vote on that.
There was weird judgment there.

He votes Rashan after the vig reveal.

He then PI's barghy again, and PI's trake. All this PI-ing is starting to make my scumdar ping. Seems a lot like scum trying to associate with players who seem like town in order to gain that status by association, and seem like he's posting content. And lastly for this post, he calls me inno. To go from calling someone inno to voting them based on pretty much the same evidence that was present at the time you called them inno seems super-scummy to me. All this evidence is starting to add up.

Gait, on 05 August 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

I don't count "smooth" as a reason, obviously, in regard to the above.

That being said, this game stinks of poor play through and through. I know I am hardly in the position to point fingers with my continued absences, but since I'm a hypocrite, I will anyway .
There's more name-calling than suspicions, and people are being flamed for situations that, while unfortunate, are part of life.

With regard to the lack of scum kills over the weekend: I don't think, if you are a killer, that you'd fail to put in a provisional and get it confirmed by P-S - only way that might happen is if the partner-killer is also absent and forgets to confirm the kill, not having made the blanket statement: "I auto-confirm any prov you make" on day 1. Which would be poor play.

I think Rashan should go. Not only is he completely lacking in explanations, preferring to self-vote in lieu of expanding on his thoughts, he also self-votes which could get him an easy ride into the end-game if we let it stand, inno-vibe or not. My gut tingles at Hanas as he is very good in being confrontational through name-calling and using circumstances around the failed lynch to accuse people, but offers almost no viewpoints otherwise. It is a very safe way to seem to contribute.

Mockra doesn't give me scum vibes. Trake and Barghast seem level-headed, I believe for now in PI status but that could also be un-pressed scum.
Tellan seems mostly inno to me, scum wouldn't do as much legwork for nought, although I am curious to see if they can keep it up.
Okaros seemed smart early on. And that's most of what I have.

After a day or so, he goes back to Alkend, again. I can't call it suspicious without being hypocritical, but I find it interesting he goes back to Alkend.

Gait, on 07 August 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Galain, on 07 August 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

Korbas, on 07 August 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Kinda sad when dropping a vote before you leave is considered scummy.

In saying that, your post has brought up an interesting point about Galain. Being consistently on the train of every lynch target screams of not making waves, not disagreeing, following the pack so as not to stand out. In any other game I'd lay a vote on him as soon as day started. However, in this game, we've had such dismal voting behaviour that Galain's actions could be explained as just needing to get a lynch. I'll have to go back and look at the votes to see for myself.

Well also take a look at Tellan too, who has been on more than me. Yes, sad that actually being semi-active is seen as scum, but sod logic eh? Whoever did the count of votes and that summary have just PI'd themselves to me FWIW by actually you know, looking at me rather than blissfully ignoring me or following my lead like others have. Anyone else considered that the reason nights are timing out is because our other alt beginning with an A whose name I can't check at the moment due to phone is one of our killers? Kinda explains PS being reluctant to mod-kill them if there's only one scum general and lets face it, who can even recall their last post, it's Wednesday, modkill is overdue. And shit, you folks are idiots, following me on a lynch when I say I have no idea even why I'm voting for them? Just getting this out before NA results come in in case I'm dead, which after that lynch I deserve. Now taking the matchsticks out from my eyes and back in a few hours hopefully.

Frankly, imnsho a mod-kill is a mod-kill even if it is on the central lynch-pin player (like Tyrant Steve). Maybe they asked for an extension and it was privately granted, but 48 hours is quite a bit (says the guy absent for 72 over friday + the weekend). I guess we're caught in a vicious circle here: we have no targets, no-one knows who to look at, no-one sticks their neck out, we have no targets. Anyone offering anything is better than nothing so people jump on.

Right now (late last day phase + night phase) we have:

Barghast - 2/1/3 - taking a look at Eloth and Galain
Galain - 2/0/4 - suggested by Barghast and Korbas
Alkend - 0/3/3 - still alive and VPI.
Korbas - 1/2/3 - accused by Mockra
Tellan - 1/0/5 - suggested by Galain
Trake - 2/1/3 - relatively scolding of others' performance but somewhat taking a back seat.<
Mockra - 2/2/2 - backed off from by Trake
Gait - 2/2/2 - clearly innocent (and not pressured at all so far)
Eloth - 3/1/2 - had a spat with Jalan, on Barghast's watch list
Okaros - 3/2/1 - making list of voters, "cleared" by Galain
Anthras - 5/0/1 - on borrowed time with an extended absence.



If I had to pick a scum pair based on these limited night time interactions, right now it would be Trake and Mockra, with Trake making a weak case on him, then backing of, making himself look busy and Mockra more inno.

EDITED to get rid of all the <break&color stuff.

He goes and calls Trake scum. If you remember, he PI-ed Trake too. I'm starting to see a trend. He PI-es someone, then distances. Scummy to me.

Gait's posts contain about 3 or 4 times the scumminess of the others I've analyzed, so, yes Barghy, I will

Vote Gait.

[Barghast]

yellow is a terrible colour to try to read. in IP. Board skin.

[Barghast]

Gait vote is interesting. I'll try to take a look at him, but you're still my no1 suspect for now.

[Barghast]

oh, as an afterthought, in response to your second yellow comment (about me picking on one of the few people trying to analyze the thread): If you got through my posts, you'll see I've been disliking your play for a while. Today was just the first day I've had to actually go through the thread and coherently point out why.

[Tellan]

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

yellow is a terrible colour to try to read. in IP. Board skin.

I use malazanempire skin so it works for me

[Tellan]

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

oh, as an afterthought, in response to your second yellow comment (about me picking on one of the few people trying to analyze the thread): If you got through my posts, you'll see I've been disliking your play for a while. Today was just the first day I've had to actually go through the thread and coherently point out why.

I know that, I'm actually surprised you haven't gotten to it sooner, just pointing it out

[Barghast]

Tellan, on 07 August 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Barghast, on 07 August 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

oh, as an afterthought, in response to your second yellow comment (about me picking on one of the few people trying to analyze the thread): If you got through my posts, you'll see I've been disliking your play for a while. Today was just the first day I've had to actually go through the thread and coherently point out why.

I know that, I'm actually surprised you haven't gotten to it sooner, just pointing it out

RL. Last week I was doing overtime to get a halfday Fri, Fri till Mon I was afk, and yesterday I was catching up on work and recovering.