[Rictus]

amphibian, on 07 May 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

An archer friend had his grump up a storm moment when Ygritte was doing archery after the wall climb. The bow wasn't nearly as powerful as they depicted it during the deer kill scene and her technique was awful. He says Hunger Games is pretty good about their archery techniques and that Avatar was moronic for going with the "fancy schmancy" reverse grip technique.

I vaguely remember Katniss putting her finger atop the arrow as she drew. But her technique must have been good if she was trained by an Olympian (I think).

[Gothos]

Archery's fun and games as long as you remember the proper wrist position (which is rather uncomfortable if your forearm isn't properly trained), otherwise you tend to get awful bruises! Also, barechested and slightly tipsy is the only way to archer!

Seriously though, don't ever arm-wrestle with an archer's bow hand.



Apart from that.... Jaime/Cersei scene in the Sept - I don't recall that happening like this at all. Is Martin making Cersei "better" and Jaime "worse" in the series?

[Blend]

Traveller, on 07 May 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

amphibian, on 07 May 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Also, don't get too wrapped up in "bastard sword" or "greatsword" or "longsword". There appears to be no serious distinction between them linguistically until Gygax separated them out for his games.

Longswords, Bastard (hand and a half) swords, Broadswords and Greatswords (two handers) have been around a lot longer than D and D.

Pretty sure Longclaw is a hand and a half, would have to look up the quote where Mormont gives it to Jon though.

In the books, Longclaw is definitely a Bastard sword.

[Abyss]

worry, on 07 May 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

I think of Ice as a prettygoodsword at best. Great for executions, certainly, but otherwise pretty unwieldy.

wasn't that an actual point in the books? ....that Ice was purely ceremonial?

[Traveller]

Nope... I''m sure I remember someone, Lannister or Greyjoy possibly, recounting Ned storming in with 'that ridiculously huge sword of his'... the end of the Greyjoy rebellion I think.

Robert had his hammer, Ned had Ice - they didn't get Robert on the throne and keep him there without using them.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 08 May 2014 - 05:39 PM

[worry]

Gothos, on 08 May 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

Apart from that.... Jaime/Cersei scene in the Sept - I don't recall that happening like this at all. Is Martin making Cersei "better" and Jaime "worse" in the series?

Martin isn't doing anything with either character as he doesn't run the show. Pretty much out of his hands. But the conclusion seems to be that it was supposed to read similarly to the scene in the books but the director royally screwed it up.

[amphibian]

After a good deal of thought, I've come around to the position that I have serious problems with Karl threatening Meera in the last episode.

Karl was made just for the show and the scene was effectively up to the writers to do anything with. And they chose to add on some more "threatening women with sexual violence". And it ultimately served no purpose.

The visions could have been prompted by threatening Bran's dead legs or something else. Instead, they did what they did and now every female character other than Robb's dead wife, Ygritte and Arya has been threatened with sexual assault.

Even in a fictional world torn by war after fifteen years of relative peace, this is getting to the point of overuse and insensitivity to what this actually means.

I'm strangely ok with The Mountain being the source of most of the assaults, as it's established that he's the most awful human being alive - even with the Boltons around. The Vargo death cemented that. But when the show is inventing new characters and making them rapists or wanna bes too, that's not ok. The books and GRRM seem to have a purpose with the assaults, as every assailant has died - except for Jaime. The show has mostly held onto that, but it is seeming more and more like the writers are finding it easier to just ill treat some women to fill screen time, than to find smarter ways to employ them and get what they need across other ways.

[worry]

In some ways, the show is making a dumbed down version of the same point GRRM made much more deftly (and only occasionally overtly), but on the other hand they are still striking some of the same brilliance on occasion too (for instance Cersei's talk with Oberyn). It's all complicated (and potentially sullied, at least in the short term) by that black hole of a scene in the sept. Like it makes sense that the Night's Watch mutineers -- given the source of the Wall's men in these fallen times -- would be the worst of the worst. And there's some roughened dignity in the reactions of Craster's wives at the end. But it'd carry more weight if not for the continued use of sexual violence as a go-to threat, so I agree with you there. Let's not forget the season 2 scene of Ros and the other girl as Joffrey's presents, which is still one of the most disturbing scenes in the show's run and was more or less an added scene. As an isolated incident it certainly added flavor to show-Joffrey and resonated a bit with some of the station-in-life themes Ros represented. But in light of all that's happened, there's over-saturation and over-reliance for sure.

What I'm waiting and hoping for is some follow-through by the end of the season. Not just raising the point and leaving it there, but making it worthwhile to have brought it up so often in the first place. I actually think we did get some with Craster's wives and Cersei, and I've gotta say Jojen's reaction to Karl was downright awesome, but Meera didn't really get to have any aftermath moments. Just on to the next task.

[QuickTidal]

I see what you are saying there Amph, and under normal circumstances (and in other areas of the show) I'd totally agree.

BUT, Karl is painted as the lowest of the low from the beginning, and most of the Night's Watch are know as either rapers or murderers. So having him do anything else would ring a little hollowly I think from a narrative standpoint.

Ia gree there is a bit ov oversaturation in other scenes/areas of the show...but here with mutinous Night's Watch guys...it made sense to me that this would be what they went to.

Just my two cents.

[amphibian]

A good friend of mine (a woman who has been attacked in the past) says there is this omnipresent cloud of sexual threatening to every female character, including Arya who has the Hound threatening to sell her into slavery.

She's abandoning the show because it's everpresent and depressing as fuck to hear or read the people who vigorously and clumsily defend the books or show's right to present such scenes.

(Yeah, they can, but that doesn't immunize them from criticism.)

I was ok with the sept scene because it's exploring a new dynamic between two murderous and incestuous twins with changing outlooks. This stuff is complicated and having the scene serve a genuine and interesting purpose is crucial.

[HoosierDaddy]

Tyrion and Davos speeches' were awesome. Especially Tyrion's.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 12 May 2014 - 02:25 AM

[worry]

Amazing. I hope I can be that mad about something someday.

[Abyss]

Dinklage delivered that last scene with Oscar level impact.
Asha's scene was basically there to remind us she exists and make Bastard Bolton a little more badass, as well as set up Theon's next arc a little better.
Too little Dany. Again... But nice to see Dracarys is getting bigger. WAY bigger.

[Cause]

amphibian, on 09 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

A good friend of mine (a woman who has been attacked in the past) says there is this omnipresent cloud of sexual threatening to every female character, including Arya who has the Hound threatening to sell her into slavery.

She's abandoning the show because it's everpresent and depressing as fuck to hear or read the people who vigorously and clumsily defend the books or show's right to present such scenes.

(Yeah, they can, but that doesn't immunize them from criticism.)

I was ok with the sept scene because it's exploring a new dynamic between two murderous and incestuous twins with changing outlooks. This stuff is complicated and having the scene serve a genuine and interesting purpose is crucial.

I don't get this at all. Your friend has a personal experience that many people don't and I understand her feelings completely. That said being offended does not make her right. In my country Rape is an ever present danger for woman. They are at risk from their fathers, husbands, uncles, friends and complete strangers. Rape is a fact of life. All the more so in ancient times when sacking a city meant the right to rape anything that moved in most mens minds. This is not my clumsy attempt to defend the shows right to use rape as plot point or theme or just scenery. The show does not need to be defended. Martin and HBO may make the show they want and people may watch or not.

[QuickTidal]

I only got through about half the ep, the Mrs. and I are still exhausted from Saturday...but I was so pleased to see Mark Gatiss as one fo the Iron Bank guys...not to mention the sweeping shot of Braavos, including the statue of the warrior who straddles the entrance to the harbor.

[Terez]

The Titan of Braavos. We got that very shot of it in the trailers, and most people took it as a sign that Arya would indeed be going to Braavos (which Wert for example had previously argued might not happen because it would be simpler to keep her in Westeros). I still think Arya will go to Braavos but it's funny that they teased us like that.

I enjoyed this episode very much. Not enough Dany, but I read the book-to-show analysis at Westeros and it seems the show writers deepened the moral gray areas around Dany's situation in Meereen, which I like. The small council deliberations on Dany were also off-script and criticized for the speed with which information has traveled, but I still appreciated the scene, a chance to cast Oberyn as the impetuous voice of sanity (he never actually joined the small council in the books). In the books, we got three days of trial (with Oberyn making his offer to Tyrion on the second day); on the show, that is shortened to one day of much-simplified testimony and no assurances when Tyrion made his demand. I wonder if there will be some kind of emotional scene where Tyrion asks Jamie to be his champion before we get Oberyn's offer.

I agree the Asha thing was kind of pointless, like they just wanted to give her something to do to keep her character on viewers' minds until the death of Balon and the Kingsmoot saga.

I don't really like where they're going with the Iron Bank so much because the whole move rests on the idea that Tywin will die soon, and Stannis was forced to go to them as a petitioner. Whereas in the books, the Iron Bank approaches Stannis because Tywin is dead and Cersei has decided to stop paying the crown's debt; therefore the Iron Bank wants someone on the throne who will pay. Of course, even though the reasoning is weaker in the show and the scenario is less optimal for Stannis, the Iron Bank's bet will pay off by the end of the season. I wonder if they'll have Cersei order the debt default before or after she learns the Iron Bank is supporting Stannis. I hope before.

[Gothos]

Holy shit that was a cool episode.

[Ceda Cicero]

I didn't mind the Asha/Yara thing. I don't think it was the greatest choice the showrunners have made but overall it wasn't bad. It's not like (IMO, at least) GRRM has done a stellar job running the Iron Islands/Greyjoy subplots ever since, pretty much, Theon's visit in book 2.

[QuickTidal]

I really enjoyed the Theon-Reek scene with Asha (I refuse to call her Yara) actually. If only because the mental deconstructions is so complete already that his fear disallows him to respond to his sister, or even the chance of escape.

It's certainly going to be interesting down the road in ADWD, as in the books Asha didn't see him again till she is a prisoner of Stannis in the North...so having her not only see him, but dismiss him as mad enough to "consider dead" on the show might throw a twist into his story once he escapes with (well it won't be Jeyne Pool, will it?) _____.

Still. I really liked the scene....but I do wonder if they are going to go whole hog with him, missing teeth, white hair, emaciated body (he still looked fairly muscled in the scene last night), missing toes and fingers ect.

[worry]

I liked it too. I mean the scene is about Reek, not Yara. I guess it might seem like just a "reminder" to people who've read the books, but that's cuz we all know that Reek isn't going anywhere soon. Newbies certainly might have hoped Yara of all people could rescue him, and then get hit with the depth of Theon's brainwashing. And then there's the extra psychological horror of the bath scene.