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Build a gaming Rig Any advice

#1 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:41 PM

I have been meaning to buy a new computer for a long time and I just made quite a sum of cash from a side job so I figure its time to finally go through with it. At first I wanted an all one (love the form factor) but I have realized that I can build a much stronger machine for less if I build a regular tower. I want this computer for a lot more than gaming but I figure if its a gaming beast (which I also want) every other use I could have will probably be easily met.

Budget: 1500$ or R15000 (I am willing to go a little higher for good reason and also happy to save some money too, no reason to overspec for the sake of it)
Want: Powerful gaming rig. Will also use for work and watching media etc etc. Would like to 'future proof' as much as possible within the budget
Need: Advice, I have not built a computer in ages, not payed much attention to PC gaming in recent times either. Im pretty up to date on tech but not an expert. Especially have no idea about graphic cards. I usually focus on the memory of the card as a rough guide but I understand this is often misleading.

http://www.evetech.c...ing-pc-325.aspx
This computer costs approx R13000 or 1300$ and I have been using it as a rough guide

Intel® 3rd Generation Core™ i7-3770 (3.4GHz, 8M Cache, 8x Cores) CPU (Seems good)
MSI Z77A-G43 Z77 Chipset SATA3 6.0Gb/s USB 3.0 Motherboard (no real idea)
SAPPHIRE VAPOR-X Radeon HD 7950 3GB OVERCLOCKED EDITION 384bit DDR5 DX11 Graphics Card (need advice)
8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600MHz High Performance Gaming RAM with Heat Spreader (8 gb seems plenty, 16 seems unnecessary?)
Corsair Gaming Series GS800 800W 80+ High Performance Power Supply
NZXT Phantom 410 Professional Window Gaming Case
1TB Seagate 7200RPM 64MB Cache SATA3 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive (thinking of adding as SSD)
24x Dual Layer DVD +/- Writer (Should I pay extra for blue ray? Xbox one and PS4 are both blueray now? I know games are often digital downloads these days but...)
Integrated 8 CH HD Sound Card (one sound card vs another?)
Integrated Gigabit LAN Card - Broadband Ready (like it for conveninece)

I can through connections and friends source the parts and build it myself so will get it cheaper. Is this a good place to start, do I need more? Need less? Also I am seriously thinking of getting a small Solid state drive (is it worth it?). I already have plenty of SATA drives that I can add as a storage drive in the PC. My main question is what kind of graphics card will I need. Is 2 gb more than enough is 3 a must. In terms of future proofing?

I should also add I am covered on the windows and office licencing

Thanks for any help or advice

This post has been edited by Cause: 18 June 2013 - 02:42 PM

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#2 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:03 PM

You'll want to very seriously consider what colour of LED lights to have on all the fans of your computer:

No lights - boring. Don't do this.

Deep Blue - this will soothe your components, making them feel calmer and less likely to overheat. Good if you are worried about heat.

Red - this will give your components a furious temper and anger, making their blood electrons boil. It can make your computer unstable but improves maximum performance.

Green - This will reduce the environmental footprint of your computer. Check for moss in the case every three months.

Purple - Gives your computer greater prestige. Advantages are that other computers will defer to it and let your computer's web packets go first in line at the routers, but the downside is that your computer might start referring to itself as "we" and insist on you paying it taxes.

Multi-colour - makes your computer a disco party. Data packets will leave other computers to come party at yours. You need to use a liquid cooling system with this setup, and fill it with vodka instead of regular cooling fluid.

Every fan a different colour - Gives your computer a schizophrenic combination of the above. Some days it will have great performance, other days it won't let you do anything except watch youtube videos of pelicans.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 18 June 2013 - 03:04 PM

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#3 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

View PostD, on 18 June 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

You'll want to very seriously consider what colour of LED lights to have on all the fans of your computer:

No lights - boring. Don't do this.

Deep Blue - this will soothe your components, making them feel calmer and less likely to overheat. Good if you are worried about heat.

Red - this will give your components a furious temper and anger, making their blood electrons boil. It can make your computer unstable but improves maximum performance.

Green - This will reduce the environmental footprint of your computer. Check for moss in the case every three months.

Purple - Gives your computer greater prestige. Advantages are that other computers will defer to it and let your computer's web packets go first in line at the routers, but the downside is that your computer might start referring to itself as "we" and insist on you paying it taxes.

Multi-colour - makes your computer a disco party. Data packets will leave other computers to come party at yours. You need to use a liquid cooling system with this setup, and fill it with vodka instead of regular cooling fluid.

Every fan a different colour - Gives your computer a schizophrenic combination of the above. Some days it will have great performance, other days it won't let you do anything except watch youtube videos of pelicans.


I sense your perhaps (okay definitely) making fun, but I actually intend to hide my ugly tower where no one, especially me has to see it. I like games and want a good computer is all. Less expensive than a mac book air too

This post has been edited by Cause: 18 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

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#4 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:29 PM

View PostCause, on 18 June 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

View PostD, on 18 June 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

You'll want to very seriously consider what colour of LED lights to have on all the fans of your computer:

No lights - boring. Don't do this.

Deep Blue - this will soothe your components, making them feel calmer and less likely to overheat. Good if you are worried about heat.

Red - this will give your components a furious temper and anger, making their blood electrons boil. It can make your computer unstable but improves maximum performance.

Green - This will reduce the environmental footprint of your computer. Check for moss in the case every three months.

Purple - Gives your computer greater prestige. Advantages are that other computers will defer to it and let your computer's web packets go first in line at the routers, but the downside is that your computer might start referring to itself as "we" and insist on you paying it taxes.

Multi-colour - makes your computer a disco party. Data packets will leave other computers to come party at yours. You need to use a liquid cooling system with this setup, and fill it with vodka instead of regular cooling fluid.

Every fan a different colour - Gives your computer a schizophrenic combination of the above. Some days it will have great performance, other days it won't let you do anything except watch youtube videos of pelicans.


I sense your perhaps (okay definitely) making fun, but I actually intend to hide my ugly tower where no one, especially me has to see it. I like games and want a good computer is all. Less expensive than a mac book air too


I have nothing useful to provide to this thread. Frivolity was my only option.

But c'mon, don't you want your computer to be pretty? The LED fans don't cost any more than the non-LED ones!

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#5 User is offline   Defiance 

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

I don't think an i7 is really necessary for gaming. Unless you're doing media creation, specifically 3D stuff, it's kind of overkill. An i5 would more than suit your needs. Getting an i5 should save you about $100.

When purchasing RAM, make sure it's supported by your Motherboard. 8gb should be good for gaming.

SSD is nice. Allocate all of your extraneous programs to your regular HDD.

Blu-ray is up to you. Definitely not necessary for gaming.

Look up benchmarks for graphic cards, that should give you an idea of what various price points will get you and the route you want to take. There's always the option of SLI/Crossfire if you're really crazy about performance and graphics, but in my opinion it's not worth it.
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#6 User is offline   A Demon Llama! 

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:01 AM

Yes, get an SSD. You will regret not getting one right after. I built my comp a while back and regretted not getting that damned SSD until I bought one today. Now I will have to go through the hassle of backing everything up and reformatting/reinstalling. They aren't expensive now anyway, I got a 120gb Samsung for $100 and I think it will be enough for all my software.
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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:03 AM

View PostA Demon Llama!, on 19 June 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Yes, get an SSD. You will regret not getting one right after. I built my comp a while back and regretted not getting that damned SSD until I bought one today. Now I will have to go through the hassle of backing everything up and reformatting/reinstalling. They aren't expensive now anyway, I got a 120gb Samsung for $100 and I think it will be enough for all my software.



....


What year are you living in, 2000? If you can fit all your software on a 120GB SSD you don't have enough software! XD
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#8 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:04 AM

Ok, I wrote this once, but it got deleted. So I'll try again.

I don't have a ton of experience in building. I built my own gaming rig 2 Xmasses ago, from a barebones kit that I assembled, and put a GPU in there. That being said, here's some things:

-unless music/audio recording is your thing, you really won't notice much (if any) difference between a dedicated sound card, and whatever's integrated into your MoBo. unlike GPUs, on-board sound is generally quite good, and you can save some money on this. ymmv, of course.

SSDs are good (my next upgrade item), but expensive. A small SSD will cost as much as a 1TB HDD. And external HDDs are getting cheaper every month.

8 gigs of RAM is plenty for now. And thankfully, RAM is easily upgradeable.

MoBo--no real experience in this. Pick a CPU, and a GPU, and make sure your MoBo can handle both. That's basically the only real piece of advice. Make sure the board is compatible with the type of RAM you want, too, obv.

GPU--the bread& butter of gaming. Keep in mind, very few games use DX11, and Microsoft REALLY wants all future iterations to be a Win8-only thing. (which brings up which OS you're gonna get--because that's important to include in your budget). Most devs will probably keep making DirectX10- compatible games for a long while, because gamers haven't exactly welcomed Win8 with open arms.
I've been hearing that the rule of thumb is "AMD goes with AMD, and Intell with Nvidia", otherwise they don't play nice. I've had an AMD and Nvidia set up for 2 years now (updated my GPU to a GT630) without any issues, but I have heard this. Also heard not great things about AMD driver support.

I haven't heard anything about PC retail games moving to Blu-rays. So i'd say this depends on how much mileage you wanna get out of your PC. If you're planning to gat a big monitor and want to enjoy HD movies on it from time to time, it may be a good investment to pay a bit extra. If you have a big TV set-up, then probably not. In terms of "future-proofing", if you expect there to maybe be PS3/4 emulators on PC, this may be something to consider? I guess?

In my experience, even mid-range PC is on par with consoles for gaming. I'm not really big on UBER GPHX!!!, however, having gamed on a laptop for most of my 8 years as a student. My mid-range set up (cost me about $800 altogether, 2 years ago), was able to run WItcher 2 decently on my 23" monitor's native resolution. The latest thing I ran on it was Darksiders 2, which was fairly visually rich, and it ran without any serious hiccups, as did the much-talked about Missing Link DLC for the new Deus Ex--though I don't think I tried it with the DX11 features.

If you really are that keen on running everyhting on max, it might be worth your time to look into SLI/Crossfire. 2 less powerful GPUs linked up can sometimes outperform the newest, most expensive chip on the market.

Oh, and if you are planning to game at max everything, consider getting extra fans.
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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:34 AM

The 256Gb SSD I put in was the best ever decision - trouble was that I then had to replace the MB, CPU and graphics card plus PSU but hey you only do it every 3 years. It is the one step change advance that every app appreciates
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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

I highly recommend a liquid cooler for your CPU. Especially if you are gaming, and especially if you plan to overclock it.
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#11 User is offline   A Demon Llama! 

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:19 AM

Quote

What year are you living in, 2000? If you can fit all your software on a 120GB SSD you don't have enough software! XD


Right. I hope I will have enough space. I don't play any games so I should be good. If not I will be displeased, but it will probably be a good excuse to get another.
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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:24 AM

View PostA Demon Llama!, on 20 June 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Quote

What year are you living in, 2000? If you can fit all your software on a 120GB SSD you don't have enough software! XD


Right. I hope I will have enough space. I don't play any games so I should be good. If not I will be displeased, but it will probably be a good excuse to get another.


Eh, if you're going for a secondary drive to your SSD, I'd suggest getting a proper HDD. What you do is use the (considerably larger) HDD for storage, especially of things that don't require rapid access, and you just shift files over when you want something ready-to-go. Fundamentally you want to keep your SSD not too full, as it's your OS drive. 1TB HDDs are pretty cheap these days, so they function as a great secondary drive to keep all your extra files on, while you reserve the super-quick SSD for OS/games/frequently used programs and files.

But whatever works for you, I guess. XD
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#13 User is offline   A Demon Llama! 

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:36 AM

Yeah, I know. I already have 3 Hard Drives in there.
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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:23 AM

Mentalist is correct on the sound card thing, unless you are an audiophile (or want a whole bunch of things connected to audio at once, some dedicated cards have extra ports for fancy set-ups), don't bother with a dedicated.

CPU
Intel has been the best option for CPUs for a while now, so I would recommend them. If you can spare the cash, get an i7. Is it necessary? No. Will it help? Yes. Either way you don't want less than an i5. As you are getting a new computer, definitely get a 4000 series. So if an i5 get the 4670, if an i7 get the 4770. The 4000s aren't a big improvement over the 3000s, so if you already have a 3000 it's not worth updating, but if you are getting a new one there is absolutely no reason not to get a 4000. They are still better, even if not much, they cost about the same as the 3000s and they use the latest CPU socket.
So if you get a 4000 you'll want an LGA1150 CPU socket on the motherboard. As you are doing gaming, you will want the motherboard to have the Z87 chipset.
If you don't plan to do your own overclocking, don't bother with the CPU version with the K after the number.

RAM
Don't bother getting anything with a faster clock speed than 1866MHz, 1600MHz is also fine. If possible, get a C9 (also occasionally listed as CL9). This represents the Cas Latency, the higher the number, the worse it is. C9 is generally the sweet spot for price vs performance.
8GB is fine, but sometimes it's not much more to get 16GB, which certainly won't hurt (if you have multiple monitors and like to do lots at the same time it'll help more). Pick clock speed and CL over amount if you are happy to add more RAM later (when adding RAM always make sure all RAM has the same CL and clock speed, preferably get more of the same range of RAM, though they can be different amounts).
Next decision is how many sticks. The more sticks you spread the same amount of RAM over, the more access your computer has to that RAM. However, using fewer sticks allows room to just add more RAM later by getting some more sticks without having to replace any. It's basically a question of 4 sticks vs 2. if you are getting 16GB it'll serve pretty well for quite a while, so you could go with 4x4GB instead of 2x8GB. If you're only getting 8GB, make it 2x4GB.

SSD/HDD
Realistically, you can install the OS and basic programs on your SSD and install all your games on a secondary HDD. The place you will notice the most improvement by using an SSD is the with the OS, especially boot times (programs on it -including games- should launch, save things and install quicker, but games probably won't run much faster in general play). If you have a couple of higher end games that you know you will play a lot, no harm in installing them on the SSD, just keep in mind you don't need an SSD big enough for all you games and programs. Just enough for the OS and whatever high-end software you want to run often (fancy games, editing/rendering software, etc).

GPU
Okay, important question: Do you plan to SLI/XFire? (use two graphics cards)
The answers to those will determine your GPU.
If yes, Nvidia has the cards that get the most out of being used together. If no, you can get better high-mid range bang for buck from AMD. Either way, I would go higher than that example card. For AMD for example, grab the HD7970.
I haven't heard anything about needing to pair AMD-AMD or Intel-Nvidia.


Anything else, like mobo, PSU and case is largely determined by above choices.
Mobo needs to be compatible with the RAM, have the CPU socket you need and the chipset you want. Some may come with other useful features. One to keep an eye on is the number of USB ports and eSata ports. They'll all have good audio, and ignore onboard/integrated graphics.
PSU needs to be powerful enough for CPU and GPU/s, and keep an eye on the 80+ rating. This is a third party power efficiency rating, the better the medal, the better the efficiency. Better an 80+Bronze than one without an 80+ rating.
Case, make sure it fits everything, taking particular note of the length of GPU and how much space that bit has in the case. Other things to keep in mind are the front ports it has, what sort of cooling it has and if it is sound dampening. For cooling you want nice flow-through for the air, not necessarily fans all over the place. Keep in mind the cooling when you try to hide the tower as well, make sure air can flow properly. If it's a dodgy spot, water cooling could help, but I've never found it necessary when the case has good access to air.
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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:06 AM

View PostA Demon Llama!, on 19 June 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Yes, get an SSD. You will regret not getting one right after. I built my comp a while back and regretted not getting that damned SSD until I bought one today. Now I will have to go through the hassle of backing everything up and reformatting/reinstalling. They aren't expensive now anyway, I got a 120gb Samsung for $100 and I think it will be enough for all my software.


just use a tool to transfer your system drive to the ssd, no need for any work, takes no more than half an hour. Paragon ssd worked a treat for me.
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#16 User is offline   Alrin 

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:33 AM

An i7 won't necessarily help with gaming and in some cases will actually hinder your gaming experience. Hyper threading is a valuable tool for photo editing or high end rendering but adds next-to-nothing to your gaming experience and in a few games can actually create issues. Some benchmarks have shown the i5 actually outperforms the i7 in strictly gaming builds anyway.

Personally, I'd look at something like:

CPU: i5-4670k ($270) -- As LH said, there's really little point in buying Ivy Bridge over Haswell. The price diff is inconsequential. And there's simply no justification to spend an extra $120 on an i7 for a gaming rig.
Mobo: Asus Z87-A ($210) -- I'm not quite up to date with Z87/Haswell, so I've put forth a board I've heard discussed as one of the best 'bang for buck' options. Personally I'd spend an extra $60 on a Maximus Gene VI because I love those boards (have used them through the last two gens).
RAM: 8GB, 1600MHz.
($80) -- I really like Crucial but they're pretty pricey. I personally use G.Skill Ripjaws in my current build.
GPU: Sapphire HD7970 ($400) -- I'm torn here. I'm nvidia all the way and EVGA at that. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an extra $80 for an EVGA GTX 770. But the 7970 will certainly serve you well at $400. But, man... EVGA...
SSD: Crucial M4 120GB ($130) -- Yup, Crucial fan here. Never had an issue with mine.
HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB ($95) -- I'd also recommend the Samsung Spinpoint F3's if you can find them. They go cheaper than the Caviar Blacks.
PSU: Antec HCP-750 ($175) -- I use it. I stand by it. Pretty much the sweet spot.
Case: Fractal R4 ($140) -- Clean case with good cooling and relatively quiet at a decent price. Never used one but heard nothing but praise.


Total: $1500 (prices may vary depending on where you shop, but those I've listed are pretty accurate)

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:29 PM

Alright I don't want to make a whole new thread for this but maybe some people that know more aboot this shit than me. I have a problem with my comp or SATA ports recognizing drives. I have an Asus p8p67 Pro Rev 3.1 motherboard, which includes 8 SATA ports ( 4-3gb and 4-6gb two of those pcie, whatever that means.)

I had 2 hard drives in my computer, one with OS the other storage. I bought an SSD and also another HDD, but it seems that only 4 of 8 of these ports actually recognize anything, and I need 5 since i got CD drive. Would it be possible for 4 of em to just not work? Only 2-3gb work and 2-6gb. Is there anything I can do to possibly make em work? I checked bios and enabled all of em but still the same. Im gonna go try to research it but if someone knows whats up or what I should try that would be great.

If anything I might just have to get rid of one of the older ones and use it as an external or something.
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#18 User is offline   A Demon Llama! 

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:30 PM

Quote

just use a tool to transfer your system drive to the ssd, no need for any work, takes no more than half an hour. Paragon ssd worked a treat for me.


Hmm yeah that would be good. But will it be a problem that my current drive with the OS is full and far exceeds the 120 gb SSD?
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#19 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:44 AM

Hey, Just wanted to come back and say thank you to everyone for offering their advice. Its definitely given me a better starting point than I had. Gonna do some more research and run down pricing and hopefully can get this show on the road.
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#20 User is offline   Lucifer's Heaven 

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:06 PM

View PostAlrin, on 21 June 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

An i7 won't necessarily help with gaming and in some cases will actually hinder your gaming experience. Hyper threading is a valuable tool for photo editing or high end rendering but adds next-to-nothing to your gaming experience and in a few games can actually create issues. Some benchmarks have shown the i5 actually outperforms the i7 in strictly gaming builds anyway.


You sure?
I could have sworn that wasn't the case with the Haswells...
Crap, and now I can't remember where I thought I read that. Well, any reduction in gaming performance would be minimal, and I'm pretty sure it would be made up for if you do heavy-ish multitasking. Keep it in mind, I'd have said going i5 over i7 is a fairly easy place to cut the price down a bit anyway.


View PostAlrin, on 21 June 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

GPU: Sapphire HD7970 ($400) -- I'm torn here. I'm nvidia all the way and EVGA at that. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an extra $80 for an EVGA GTX 770. But the 7970 will certainly serve you well at $400. But, man... EVGA...


This is where the question of if you think you'll want to get a second card to X-Fire/SLI with down the track comes in. Between the HD7970 and GTX 770, there is squat all reason to go with the 770 over the HD7970 if you don't plan to eventually get a second card. Those two cards are neck and neck for performance, trading minor leads with each other depending on the game/program. But the HD7970 is a decent chunk cheaper.
If you get two of each card however the GTX 770s regularly outperform the HD7970s by not insignificant amounts. Not huge amounts, but noticeable ones.
"So how'd you save the world?"
"Averted the rapture by drowning the baby Jesus in his own tears"
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