Silencer, on 19 June 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:
Tapper, on 19 June 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:
No matter how restrictive the XBone is, and no matter how much Microsoft botched their PR campaign (so far), is it truly necessary to respond to every statement with sarcasm and dollar signs when we're still in the information stage? None of us has had hands-on experience or even knows how the systems ARE going to work?
For all we know, Sony may severely restrict PS+ or MS will change their tune and sweeten their deal as a result of all the commotion.
I won't buy either of the consoles at launch, very much lean towards the PS for now, but in all fairness, it is just way too early to judge and/or condemn one system or producer.
And while Sony may win all the battles in their fight against Microsoft for the public opinion, compared to the PC and the options it offers, either console is already near obsolete and certainly extremely restricted in its service the second it hits the market. In fact, it already is with the existing services.
For what it's worth, I've always used M$ as the shorthand for Microsoft, Tapps, even when I was unashamedly a fan of the Xbox 360. It's not an indictment in and of itself, more a bit of a tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that they're (and have been since I've know them) always swimming in money. So yeah.
As for "information stage" - you been reading the same news I have?
Only the summaries
I can't really be bothered to dive into everything, watch E3 footage or nitpick every statement, but I get the gists of it from this thread where you do it for me, and the occassional article on sites I frequent.
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Microsoft can't "sweeten the deal" unless they go back on about 75% of what they've been saying. Which in and of itself is, if their launch conferences were anything to go by, already a massive scale-back on their plans for the system. At this point the consoles should just about be in the final stages of development, and if you seriously think they're going to suddenly rework: Kinect, online connection/DRM policy, and heck, their own damn attitudes towards consumers who have reacted with (what should have been predictable) disgust, then fine. Let's play "wait and see". This thing is releasing in a few months, Tapper. Not next year, not even at Christmas. Less than half a year out. It's basically on shelves. They've shown ZERO concern over consumer reaction so far. Hell, their "damage control" has made things WORSE in most regards.
I don't doubt Kinect (part of the box) and DRM/connection will maintain to be mandatory. But they may soften some things or do other things better: lower the price of Gold, expand the game sharing to more people (after all, whether it's 2 or 200 has no impact on hardware technology), expand the game library more quickly/aggressively, perhaps with unique titles, and so on. They've got a lot to prove now, and they might.
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As someone who would have purchased this thing over the PS4 any day at the start of the year, as someone who has been a fan of the Xbox over the PS for the past two generations of console, I'm afraid I'm a bit pissed off at their CLEAR and IMMINENT shafting of the consumers they sold their systems to - and especially their lack of remorse or consideration about it.
I dunno about customers, Silencer. The most regretful reaction here (apart from yours) about having to switch/ switching consoles from Xbox to PS is "I liked the Xbox controller more". The systems are presented almost back to back, so it is not like loyalty means sticking to a brand for X years while waiting for a new console. You don't like the XBone, get the PS. Or vice versa. At worst, there's a 15 day waiting period (and whether or not your old discs become playable on the new thing - but for that, you have your old console, it is plug and play after all, and the old game has the old specs and will do nothing more, nor look better). And both Sony and MS know this. They know, end of the day, we're going to stay/switch solely based on our interpretation of what each console offers for the future, maybe a tiny bit for the present, but definately not because of the past or because of brand loyalty. It's as cynical as that.
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And while I agree regards the baseline specifications of both consoles, you and I both know that the developers will, for the next two to three years at least, squeeze gaming performance out of those consoles which will allow them to rival high-end rigs. Not beat, no, but rival. And at a fraction of the cost. Are they more restricted than computers? Of course. But that's just part of the package. It's the brazen attempt to prevent people from trading or reselling physical disks and to make it so people are by default assumed to be likely criminals by enforcing checks on the legitimacy of your ownership every 24 hours. That's what is getting me pissed off, Tapper. And it's not going away.
The fraction of the cost is off-set by the higher price of the games - in general, around € 10,- more a piece. (I might actually recoup that if I consider the size of my Steam library and the PC offers other uses), for a more restricted gaming experience (2 sticks, 8 buttons/triggers versus (gaming) mouse + keyboard). I don't buy a lot of games anymore, and when I buy a game full-price for PC if it offers innovative stuff or awesome quality, I never felt the need to do so on console. What's the difference between, say, Soul Calibur # and Soul Calibur #+1 on the same console? The specs are exactly the same, the controls probably as well, so why would you want #+1 at launch instead of waiting until it goes for 50%? This goes especially for games with no or little multiplayer options, and for games that are brought out after the honeymoon period of the console is over (what, 2-3 years after launch?).
As for the non-reusable component, it is the same as Steam. I never heard anyone complain about that (rather, it is seen as an innovation and a good thing for PC gaming), but it is just as restricting, right? I can't for example run Skyrim through Steam Cloud because of the SKSE mod. I don't complain about it, and see few do. That might partly be because I'm a bit of a snob and didn't own a console during study (when the money was tight), but Of course, there is less of a secondary market for PC games and PC prices are lower.
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Hell, if it DOES, somehow, all turn around, I'm STILL going to be pissed at them. Why? Because they tried. In terms of consumer trust, Microsoft should be at rock-bottom right now. And working that back up should take a damn sight more than "sweetening the deal" or going back on plans to slap every dedicated gamer in the world in the face. It's the principle of the thing, man!
They're using a gaming console, something present in a lot of households, as a launching platform to insert themselves into the public conscience as a multimedia device. And that's smart. That 'we' as gamers are universally disappointed, sucks. For us.
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...how can the attitude not get you? What has Microsoft done in the past couple of months to prevent you from condemning what they are DOING. Right now. Not what they might do. Not what they end up doing. But what they are DOING. Here and NOW. Surely it must be obvious to you their opinion of their consumers. "Deal with it." was as apt a summary as ever we will need - he may have been fired, but it's the exact same line being shouted from all fronts right now by every Microsoft exec we hear from!
In all honesty: it doesn't get to me a single bit more than they did already. Microsoft doesn't have my sympathy for taking my cash but I am more annoyed by the constant need to run updates to Windows than I am by the Xbox. In case of the console, I pay them for a hardware + software package and that hardware works.
I was more bothered by the Red Ring of Death than by their be-online statements. And that's despite the fact that I don't play online games, that until 5 months ago I didnt have Xbox Gold. But I have an unlimited data cap on my internet, the box makes its web connection wireless and I don't buy used games nor do I sell/ trade in mine. Finally, the Xbox is most of the time being used to play series and movies rather than playing games on. I save my gaming needs for the PC, so what the fuck apart from the principle is there to be worried about?
If you don't like it, get the alternative: the PS. It isn't like the PRISM thing, that's a betrayal of public trust and a violation of privacy that one thought was guarded and guaranteed, it is an agreement you sign - or not.
Basically, when I look at the XBox One, I see a holistic approach that would have Steve Jobs cream his pants (or shit them, since this is Apple's biggest rival, after all). Replace Mac & iPad with Laptop and XBone and it's all the same strategy. "Buy our hardware, we'll give you our entertainment and it is going to be so nice and compatible with each other, it will be your integrated entertainment centre. Music libraries, movies, games, tv, fitness, all from one station. Be ready for the future!" Worked
wonders for Apple.
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And if Sony changes their tone, believe me, I'll be just as vehement and persistent at pointing it out as I am with M$. More so, because it will be a clear about-face on their part, compared with what they've been trumpeting at every opportunity lately. And I think you'll find most everyone else who is pro-Sony right now would be exactly the same. Because that would amount to outright lying/deception. Whereas M$ we just disagree with what they're doing and feel a little bit betrayed by their sudden disdain for their market. *shrug*
I wouldn't worry about them making a 180 degree turn. For Sony, the PS is a more or less dedicated gaming station and just a part of their hardware line. Expand it too much, and it will undercut their other hardware appliances, whereas for MS, the XBox line has been their sole (?) hardware product.
IF MS make it work and manage to turn the XBone into
the household entertainment centre, it is Sony that pays the price. Because IF the XBone leads to further integrations it will make other things obsolete, things MS doesn't produce. But Sony does. And down go their harddisk recorders, speaker sets, dvd players, et cetera. For such a purpose, we, the gamers, are a casual temporary sacrifice on the road to riches for MS - because they count on us coming back for having all that compatibleness in one ugly black box.
Everyone is entitled to his own wrong opinion. - Lizrad
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