[D'rek]

Galactic Council, on 03 July 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

General question:

How the fuck are you supposed to win with the Rho Indi???

I know the idea is to keep them on the move and make money from battles and such, but having no dreads is really limiting, no VPs for the homeworld is silly, hardly any production in the home system is sillier still, 2 diplomacies max, 2 colony ships, expensive ships and in practice the plunder bonus is not very useful.

The shields and extra init are nice of course, but it seems an incredibly underpowered tradeoff for all the limitations, especially considering that I somehow need to beat other players' dreads without having any dreads of my own, and being crippled by the high ship costs the whole time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I played them for the hell of it, but I cannot see me ever choosing the Rho Indi again. Even if I'd had pretty decent hex draws at the beginning, I can't see how it would have improved things that much. I can see how they're great in the early game and can gear up for early strikes against other players and ancients, but once others get established there's no possible way I can go after them unless I get extremely lucky with disco draws.

I dunno...just seems a race with benefits that are situational at best, but not really a contender unless luck is heavily on their side.

EDIT

Maybe in a lower player-count game, but in a big game like this, I regret not choosing terran or Magellan.

The 3 money -> 2 mat/science trade is really good, though. I think the idea is to focus mostly on getting money planets and plundering, then using that to get the extra materials for your ships. I think the problem you have is that you almost cut yourself off from everyone and then let two of your systems slip. Overall I think you probably should have kept those systems to keep your productions up and be relentlessly sending light attacks against anyone anywhere you see a weak point since the quadruple move lets you send your ships just about anywhere.

[Galactic Council]

Well I was kind of cut off from moving through the wormholes and a huge opponent with the ability to smash me in 1 turn looms to the north. It was working out for me with no net loss pursuing Khell, but then he was able to get tech to counter me.

I dunno, the whole race just seems like it's trying to do the Orion thing and be battle-heavy, but without giving you the ability to really compete in battles. Khell for example, by round 4 was able to develop tech that eclipses my own. I didn't have the resources to devote to tech because Rho indi is so geeared toward fighting stuff that all my resources need to go toward that, and the ships are so expensive I can't make use of the nice money conversion ratio.

And if I'd waited much longer vs. Khell it would have been me with basically no tech and no resources vs. him being able to remove my whole fleet with a pair of cruisers.

But I guess that's the way with all the specialist races. If I'd drawn a bunch of money hexes right off the bat I might have fared better. As it stands I drew 4 science hexes...and that doesn't do me a heck of a lot of good with this race. My attempt at moving into more money rich hexes was foiled, so now I'm kinda stuck.

Not that I'm complaining (even though I know it sounds like it)...just trying to figure out if there's a better way I could be playing

@D'rek RE morg dread

He has 1 computer. He covered one with a shield in his last action (sorry haven't had time for a board update).

[D'rek]

Galactic Council, on 03 July 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

@D'rek RE morg dread

He has 1 computer. He covered one with a shield in his last action (sorry haven't had time for a board update).

Oh, hmm... so is this right:


Exiles Cruiser
Ion Cannon
Ion Cannon
Electron Computer
Hull
Nuclear Source
Nuclear Drive


Exiles Dread
Ion Cannon
Ion Cannon
Electron Computer
Hull
Hull
Gauss Shield
Nuclear Source
Nuclear Drive


Orion Cruiser
Ion Cannon
Electron Computer
Improved Hull
Improved Hull
Gauss Shield
Nuclear Drive


Orion Dread
Ion Cannon
Ion Cannon
Electron Computer
Improved Hull
Improved Hull
Improved Hull
Gauss Shield
Nuclear Drive

[twelve]

CF,

I influence Arturus and colonlize the Money, Science and advanced science slots. It's at the bottom of my unspoilered OP page but thought I would put it here too in case you missed it. Also can Khell and I know our discovery draws soon?

Also regarding playing as the pirates. I told you you should have gone for the plasma missle tech when you found that early science discovery card. Flying in with 4 interceptors with 8 plasma misslies even hitting at a 33% rate you will still does good damage. Especially if you decided to build a cruiser instead of a couple of interceptors. Then if you grabbed positron computers you would be a very frightening force right now.

[Galactic Council]

@Twelve

Khell gets to draw first, and I need to wait on his instructions.

Also, how the heck would I have afforded the missile tech? I'd have a bunch of one-shot wonder ships and Khell snapped up improved hull right away. Still can't see how that would have worked that much in my favour. One bad roll and I'd be out.\

EDIT

I'd thought about the missile tech but there was no way to get it until round 3

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 03 July 2013 - 02:53 PM

[Tattersail_]

twelve, on 03 July 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

CF,

I influence Arturus and colonlize the Money, Science and advanced science slots. It's at the bottom of my unspoilered OP page but thought I would put it here too in case you missed it. Also can Khell and I know our discovery draws soon?

Also regarding playing as the pirates. I told you you should have gone for the plasma missle tech when you found that early science discovery card. Flying in with 4 interceptors with 8 plasma misslies even hitting at a 33% rate you will still does good damage. Especially if you decided to build a cruiser instead of a couple of interceptors. Then if you grabbed positron computers you would be a very frightening force right now.

Have you got colony ships enough for that?? Just asking, haven't checked. When you influence after battle you don't flip ships. So you'd have to have all three ready to go before battle commenced.

[twelve]

Galactic Council, on 03 July 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

@Twelve

Khell gets to draw first, and I need to wait on his instructions.

Also, how the heck would I have afforded the missile tech? I'd have a bunch of one-shot wonder ships and Khell snapped up improved hull right away. Still can't see how that would have worked that much in my favour. One bad roll and I'd be out.\

EDIT

I'd thought about the missile tech but there was no way to get it until round 3

You started out with 3 science, you landed a +5 science discovery. That put you at 8 science in round one. I don't know what you generated for science to start round two but with the draws you had you could have generated at least 3 science. That puts you at 11 science going into round two. Plasma missiles would have cost you 13 science.That is just 2 science short. You started with 2 money. Just passing early enough in round one would have landed you 1 money. Convert 3 money to two science and presto you have plasma missiles in round 2.

Slap 6 plasma missles on 3 interceptors or 4 misslies on 2 interceptors and 2 on a cruiser with two electron computers and I would have been the one shitting in my pants right out of the gate.

This post has been edited by twelve: 03 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

[twelve]

Ganoes Paran, on 03 July 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

twelve, on 03 July 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

CF,

I influence Arturus and colonlize the Money, Science and advanced science slots. It's at the bottom of my unspoilered OP page but thought I would put it here too in case you missed it. Also can Khell and I know our discovery draws soon?

Also regarding playing as the pirates. I told you you should have gone for the plasma missle tech when you found that early science discovery card. Flying in with 4 interceptors with 8 plasma misslies even hitting at a 33% rate you will still does good damage. Especially if you decided to build a cruiser instead of a couple of interceptors. Then if you grabbed positron computers you would be a very frightening force right now.

Have you got colony ships enough for that?? Just asking, haven't checked. When you influence after battle you don't flip ships. So you'd have to have all three ready to go before battle commenced.

That was the main reason I used the influence action 3 straight times this round. The first was to get a bit more money the other two were designed to give me 3 colony ships to use for after battle resolution.

1-19 science turnaround is very nice.

This post has been edited by twelve: 03 July 2013 - 03:11 PM

[Gnaw]

Galactic Council, on 03 July 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I dunno, the whole race just seems like it's trying to do the Orion thing and be battle-heavy, but without giving you the ability to really compete in battles.

Orions are infantry. Rho Indi is cavalry.

I've got an interesting thought on how to play them. Don't know if it would work but it might. And would be fun as hell.

[D'rek]

D, on 03 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

<br>

Galactic Council, on 03 July 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

<br>@D'rek RE morg dread<br><br>He has 1 computer. He covered one with a shield in his last action (sorry haven't had time for a board update).<br>

<br><br>Oh, hmm... so is this right: <br><br><br><b>Exiles Cruiser</b><br>Ion Cannon<br>Ion Cannon<br>Electron Computer<br>Hull<br>Nuclear Source<br>Nuclear Drive<br><br><br><b>Exiles Dread</b><br>Ion Cannon<br>Ion Cannon<br>Electron Computer<br>Hull<br>Hull<br>Gauss Shield<br>Nuclear Source<br>Nuclear Drive<br><br><br><b>Orion Cruiser</b><br>Ion Cannon<br>Electron Computer &nbsp;<b>This is a shield</b><br>Improved Hull<br>Improved Hull<br>Gauss Shield<br>Nuclear Drive<br><br><br><b>Orion Dread</b><br>Ion Cannon<br>Ion Cannon<br>Electron Computer<br>Improved Hull<br>Improved Hull<br>Improved Hull<br>Gauss Shield<br>Nuclear Drive<br>

<br><br><br>So CF didn't answer this yet, but what I was thinking is that if this above is right, then Morgoth's cruisers have no shields and ergo my rolls of 5 should be hitting his cruiser... Now I don't think we need to go back and re-do the whole battle, just add in where I've rolled a 5 to hit Morgoth's cruiser. Since it hasn't hit me yet, it wouldn't change a lot.

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 03 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

[Imperial Historian]

I think that is wrong, Morgoths crusier does not have an electon computer, and has a shield instead.

Acting as tapper re diplomacy with CF.

Gnaw has not been eliminated until the end of upkeep, so i keep the diplomacy tile until the start of next turn. As such I can't enter diplomacy with you until next turn. I'll get back to you on what to discard the cube to start of next round.

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 03 July 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I think that is wrong, Morgoths crusier does not have an electon computer, and has a shield instead.

Acting as tapper re diplomacy with CF.

Gnaw has not been eliminated until the end of upkeep, so i keep the diplomacy tile until the start of next turn. As such I can't enter diplomacy with you until next turn. I'll get back to you on what to discard the cube to start of next round.

This is how we did this last game as well between Tatts and me. Tapper gets to count the diplomacy cube from Gnaw in his upkeep but after the upkeep phase then it is removed from his board and Tapper will then have a diplomacy tile available to use in the next round. Sucks for you this round CF but just know that you can do it next.

Edit:

And IH is right about Morgoth having shields and no computers so only 6's hit.

This post has been edited by twelve: 03 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

[Imperial Historian]

Re winning as pirates, the key is getting a good drive, neutron bombs and then a really powerful gun and computers as quickly as you can, the idea being to move quickly to weakpoints, and then hit them hard, not letting them build up forces or get a shot off, glass cannon to the max really. If someone has a strong fleet, you just move round them and hit them somewhere they aren't strong. You can use your money early on to get pretty expensive techs easily, in your situation i wouldn't have got the missile shield or even advanced robotics (though normally this is a good move), and focused on computers, a power source, and maybe a drive for the cruisers. You need to get tech in your first few turns, but you sacrificed your good tech potential early on in order to build more ships, which has hindered you a little.

[D'rek]

Ah ok, thanks for that correction guys.

[Gnaw]

twelve, on 03 July 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 03 July 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I think that is wrong, Morgoths crusier does not have an electon computer, and has a shield instead.

Acting as tapper re diplomacy with CF.

Gnaw has not been eliminated until the end of upkeep, so i keep the diplomacy tile until the start of next turn. As such I can't enter diplomacy with you until next turn. I'll get back to you on what to discard the cube to start of next round.

This is how we did this last game as well between Tatts and me. Tapper gets to count the diplomacy cube from Gnaw in his upkeep but after the upkeep phase then it is removed from his board and Tapper will then have a diplomacy tile available to use in the next round. Sucks for you this round CF but just know that you can do it next.

Edit:

And IH is right about Morgoth having shields and no computers so only 6's hit.

Hmm. That's not the way the rules say it should go.

Start of upkeep phase: civilization upkeep. Money. That's the point I put my toys back in the box. So that would also be the point at which Tapper loses my ambassador Science and mat production come after money.

(I spent a fair amount of time reading the rules and BGG FAQs over the weekend.)

Edit: Since I went first this round, my upkeep starts first. Ambassadors can be exchanged at any time during one of the player's turn. I go bankrupt pulling my ambassador. Tapper can then make the diplomacy exchange during his civilization upkeep turn.

This post has been edited by Gnaw: 03 July 2013 - 04:35 PM

[D'rek]

Gnaw, on 03 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

twelve, on 03 July 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 03 July 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I think that is wrong, Morgoths crusier does not have an electon computer, and has a shield instead.

Acting as tapper re diplomacy with CF.

Gnaw has not been eliminated until the end of upkeep, so i keep the diplomacy tile until the start of next turn. As such I can't enter diplomacy with you until next turn. I'll get back to you on what to discard the cube to start of next round.

This is how we did this last game as well between Tatts and me. Tapper gets to count the diplomacy cube from Gnaw in his upkeep but after the upkeep phase then it is removed from his board and Tapper will then have a diplomacy tile available to use in the next round. Sucks for you this round CF but just know that you can do it next.

Edit:

And IH is right about Morgoth having shields and no computers so only 6's hit.

Hmm. That's not the way the rules say it should go.

Start of upkeep phase: civilization upkeep. Money. That's the point I put my toys back in the box. So that would also be the point at which Tapper loses my ambassador Science and mat production come after money.

(I spent a fair amount of time reading the rules and BGG FAQs over the weekend.)

Isn't there something in there about each player doing their upkeep in player order, if you're being super official?

[Gnaw]

D, on 03 July 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Isn't there something in there about each player doing their upkeep in player order, if you're being super official?

Yes ma'am. I just edited into that post.

[Gnaw]

Gnaw, on 03 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

twelve, on 03 July 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 03 July 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I think that is wrong, Morgoths crusier does not have an electon computer, and has a shield instead.

Acting as tapper re diplomacy with CF.

Gnaw has not been eliminated until the end of upkeep, so i keep the diplomacy tile until the start of next turn. As such I can't enter diplomacy with you until next turn. I'll get back to you on what to discard the cube to start of next round.

This is how we did this last game as well between Tatts and me. Tapper gets to count the diplomacy cube from Gnaw in his upkeep but after the upkeep phase then it is removed from his board and Tapper will then have a diplomacy tile available to use in the next round. Sucks for you this round CF but just know that you can do it next.

Edit:

And IH is right about Morgoth having shields and no computers so only 6's hit.

Hmm. That's not the way the rules say it should go.

Start of upkeep phase: civilization upkeep. Money. That's the point I put my toys back in the box. So that would also be the point at which Tapper loses my ambassador Science and mat production come after money.

(I spent a fair amount of time reading the rules and BGG FAQs over the weekend.)

Edit: Since I went first this round, my upkeep starts first. Ambassadors can be exchanged at any time during one of the player's turn. I go bankrupt pulling my ambassador. Tapper can then make the diplomacy exchange during his civilization upkeep turn.

of course if Tapper is using that as an excuse to not exchange ambassadors then the above is of no particular use to him.

[Galactic Council]

EEk

Sorry about ruining your post D'rek.

I thought I was posting a new one but apparently I hit edit on your post.

RE your question

Morgoth's last action was to add a gauss shield over the computer on his cruiser and a gauss shield over one computer on his dread.

[Galactic Council]

So tapper does not lose the production from you going bankrupt? Why not if your upkeep bankrupts you first, per upkeep order?

Not challenging you, just wondering since you've been reading carefully.


On a re-read I think I understand now.

IH was saying that tapper doesn't lose the diplo tile out of necessity.

Gnaw is saying that he's pulling the diplo tile intentionally during his upkeep prior to *actually* going bankrupt at the end of upkeep.

Do I have that straight? Again, a highly irregular move I think, but I ain't gonna argue if Gnaw wants to make it easier for me to exchange diplo with tapper.

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 03 July 2013 - 05:21 PM