[Deadsmell]

Hey,

The High King in this book, they are not talking about Kallor right? He cant be THAT old... right?

Though I remember there was a line where Kallor said he walked the world when Imass were but children.

[Abyss]

I figured it was Kallor. It's logical, AND makes his backstory even more epic and insane.

[worry]

He can't be how old?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

So old, when he was a kid, he never blew out candles on his birthday cake. They didn't have fire then.

[nacht]

Battle of Epic Proportion.
Worrywort One Line Zingers vs Stalking Stonny's (Longer?) one line zingers. Mages of Mockra I assume

Keep going at it folks. You are funny :-)

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I would bow out of that competition until it resembled a pro wrestling match and we had to combine our forces to defeat a mutual enemy. I would distract the ref while wort would poke the enemy in the eye and pile drive him into the canvas. A quick tag, and our roles are reversed, with me flying off the ropes. Eventually we would win, but then wort would hit me with a folding chair from behind and we would battle it out on Saturday Night Main Event, pissing off millions of pot heads who were expecting the reun episode of Saturday Night LIve hosted by Mary Tyler Moore, with musical guest Elvis Costello.

[Nevyn]

 Deadsmell, on 06 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Hey,

The High King in this book, they are not talking about Kallor right? He cant be THAT old... right?

Though I remember there was a line where Kallor said he walked the world when Imass were but children.

Pretty sure its Kallor.

SE always messes me up with his timing, as I always previously had the impression that Kallor came after ritual of Tellan, after the K'Chain Chemalle, etc etc. But this book seems to be setting up to have Draconus make Dragnipur and get killed by Rake, and that can't happen until after Kallor gets cursed. And the flashbacks in TCG have Draconus and whoever ends up being Ruthan talking about a land being Kallor's, again before the fall of the crippled god.

[worry]

He said he was there when the Imass were children. What, you didn't believe him?

[D'rek]

 worrywort, on 19 March 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

He said he was there when the Imass were children. What, you didn't believe him?

Good point.

IMO, wait until FoL/WoS and see how SW is going to play this. Technically, we know very little about Kallor. He could have a long backstory from before his Jacurukan empire. It could be that he is an Azathanai or equivalent, and K'rul's curse that he would live an unending mortal life essentially descended Kallor from being a much more powerful, longer-lived creature.

Endest Silann's flashbacks in TtH speak of important figures in the Tiste wars that we haven't even seen yet in FoD. Either SE is going somewhere lengthy with this trilogy or you'll have discount things in MBotF for the Tiste trilogy to make sense. Wait and see for which!

[Ukjent]

One day they got to write a trilogy or something about Kallor

[Tattersail_]

I have the secrets of the azath. I know....

This post has been edited by Ganoes Paran: 20 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

[Kylane]

Page 12 of the paperback version of Memories of Ice, from K'rul's pov,

Quote

K'rul had come to destroy him, had come to snap the chains of twelve million slaves - even the Jaghut Tyrants had not commanded such heartless mastery over their subjects. No, It took a mortal human to achieve this level of tyranny over his kin.

This implies that not only is Kallor mortal, but that he is human as well.

Then on page 13 Sister of Cold Nights confirms Kallor is human too,

Quote

We have stepped onto this land, and so all share what you sense K'rul, Draconus replied. I, too, am not certain of its truth. Sister, do you approach the High King's abode?
The third voice replied, I do, brother Draconus. Would you and brother K'rul join me now, that we may confront this mortal as one?

This all seems to state that Kallor is indeed a human, and a mortal one at that. Maybe Kallor was one of the first human to come around, and could possibly be the first ascendant to ascend from being a mortal human? He does seem to to have already been around for a while during his conversation with Drac, K'rul, and SoCN.

Quote

'We have come,' K'rul said, 'to end your reign of terror.'
Kallor's brows rose. 'You would take from me all that I have worked so hard to achieve? Fifty years, dear rivals, to conquer an entire continent. Oh, perhaps Ardatha still held out - always late in sending me my rightful tribute - but I ignored such pretty gestures. She has fled, did you know? The bitch. Do you imagine yourselves the first to challenge me? The Circle brought down a foreign god. Aye, the effort went... awry, thus sparing me the task of killing the fools with my own hand. And the Fallen One? Well, he'll not recover for some time, and even then, do you truly imagine he will accede to anyone's bidding? I would have-'
'Enough,' Draconus growled. 'Your prattling grows wearisome, Kallor.'

From this quote Kallor obviously feels he is on the same level as the Elder Gods. He could have started as a mortal man who has then ascended. This would explain how he was able to survive the fall of the Crippled God, and also how the had the ability to incinerate an entire continent.

Quote

'Are you blind?' Kallor shrieked, clutching at the arms of this throne. 'It is gone! They are gone! Break the chains, will you? Go ahead - no, I surrender them! Here, all about you, is now free. Dust! Bones! All free!'
'You have in truth incinerated an entire continent?' the sister Elder whispered. 'Jacuruku-'

I found this tidbit a little interesting seeing as how, we have not seen Kallor unleash any kind of sorcery in the entire series. Yet, here he obviously had the power to incinerate a continent. It would certainly take an ascendant to accomplish that feat! I don't even think Tay would be able to to that!

Anyways, these are just my thoughts. I haven't read a lot of the posts on here, so some of this may have been covered already.

[Khellendros]

 Kylane, on 18 June 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Page 12 of the paperback version of Memories of Ice, from K'rul's pov,

Quote

K'rul had come to destroy him, had come to snap the chains of twelve million slaves - even the Jaghut Tyrants had not commanded such heartless mastery over their subjects. No, It took a mortal human to achieve this level of tyranny over his kin.

This implies that not only is Kallor mortal, but that he is human as well.

Then on page 13 Sister of Cold Nights confirms Kallor is human too,

Quote

We have stepped onto this land, and so all share what you sense K'rul, Draconus replied. I, too, am not certain of its truth. Sister, do you approach the High King's abode?
The third voice replied, I do, brother Draconus. Would you and brother K'rul join me now, that we may confront this mortal as one?

This all seems to state that Kallor is indeed a human, and a mortal one at that. Maybe Kallor was one of the first human to come around, and could possibly be the first ascendant to ascend from being a mortal human? He does seem to to have already been around for a while during his conversation with Drac, K'rul, and SoCN.

Quote

'We have come,' K'rul said, 'to end your reign of terror.'
Kallor's brows rose. 'You would take from me all that I have worked so hard to achieve? Fifty years, dear rivals, to conquer an entire continent. Oh, perhaps Ardatha still held out - always late in sending me my rightful tribute - but I ignored such pretty gestures. She has fled, did you know? The bitch. Do you imagine yourselves the first to challenge me? The Circle brought down a foreign god. Aye, the effort went... awry, thus sparing me the task of killing the fools with my own hand. And the Fallen One? Well, he'll not recover for some time, and even then, do you truly imagine he will accede to anyone's bidding? I would have-'
'Enough,' Draconus growled. 'Your prattling grows wearisome, Kallor.'

From this quote Kallor obviously feels he is on the same level as the Elder Gods. He could have started as a mortal man who has then ascended. This would explain how he was able to survive the fall of the Crippled God, and also how the had the ability to incinerate an entire continent.

Quote

'Are you blind?' Kallor shrieked, clutching at the arms of this throne. 'It is gone! They are gone! Break the chains, will you? Go ahead - no, I surrender them! Here, all about you, is now free. Dust! Bones! All free!'
'You have in truth incinerated an entire continent?' the sister Elder whispered. 'Jacuruku-'

I found this tidbit a little interesting seeing as how, we have not seen Kallor unleash any kind of sorcery in the entire series. Yet, here he obviously had the power to incinerate a continent. It would certainly take an ascendant to accomplish that feat! I don't even think Tay would be able to to that!

Anyways, these are just my thoughts. I haven't read a lot of the posts on here, so some of this may have been covered already.

A couple of things: Kallor is not an ascendant, at least according to MoI (who knows if the Kharkanas trilogy will seek to retcon this). From the same passage as your MoI quotes, the Elder Gods state that their curse on Kallor is that (as well as the whole everything you try to accomplish is doomed to failure bit) he will never ascend. So according to MoI at least, Kallor was not an ascendant before the EGs intervened, and isn't one afterwards either, despite his near-immortal existence.


With regards to the mass destruction sorcery, I think the popular theory around here (though I can't remember if anything substantiates it within the books aside from Kallor's obvious deep knowledge of the K'Chain), is that Kallor discovered a K'Chain Che Malle weapon of mass destruction (a Malaz nuke, say) and activated it.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 18 June 2013 - 01:55 AM

[Abyss]

FOD shows pretty clearly that the way things seemed to be between the Tiste, the EGs and others is not the way things were a few hundred thousand years before.

Entire relationships may be rewritten and memories completely changed in the time between.

All of which is to say, Kallor could very well be the Az`i called High King AND the 'mortal' we see in the MoI prologue.

[Khellendros]

 Abyss, on 18 June 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

FOD shows pretty clearly that the way things seemed to be between the Tiste, the EGs and others is not the way things were a few hundred thousand years before.

Entire relationships may be rewritten and memories completely changed in the time between.

All of which is to say, Kallor could very well be the Az`i called High King AND the 'mortal' we see in the MoI prologue.

Yep. Also widely known as a retcon

[Sinisdar Toste]

The mad thing is that even in MoI, kallor says he walked the earth when the t'lan imass were children... What mortal human could predate the tellann ritual?

[ShadowOwl]

In FoD, one thing that caught my eye, was the family of Hunn Raal, the Issgins. I remembered that name from the Crippled God, (see pg 428 - 430 HC) when Kallor went to Saranas to tell the Liosans of the death of his wife/queen. She was named Serap Issgin and had lived there and run away to Kallor. They call Kallor "High King" in the dialogue. Serap Issgin was the cousin of Hunn Raal and was made one of the first 'Liosans'. Nice connections with the mention of a High King in B&B and FoD.

Spoiler

Also helps to explain why, in B&B we see remnants of a Liosan culture in the 'old ways' and ruins. He and Serap ruled there a long time. Great tie-ins!

[Abyss]

 Khellendros, on 18 June 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

 Abyss, on 18 June 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

FOD shows pretty clearly that the way things seemed to be between the Tiste, the EGs and others is not the way things were a few hundred thousand years before.

Entire relationships may be rewritten and memories completely changed in the time between.

All of which is to say, Kallor could very well be the Az`i called High King AND the 'mortal' we see in the MoI prologue.

Yep. Also widely known as a retcon

It's only a retcon if there isn't a good explanation for it.

 ShadowOwl, on 21 June 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

In FoD, one thing that caught my eye, was the family of Hunn Raal, the Issgins. I remembered that name from the Crippled God, (see pg 428 - 430 HC) when Kallor went to Saranas to tell the Liosans of the death of his wife/queen. She was named Serap Issgin and had lived there and run away to Kallor. They call Kallor "High King" in the dialogue. Serap Issgin was the cousin of Hunn Raal and was made one of the first 'Liosans'. Nice connections with the mention of a High King in B&B and FoD.

Spoiler

Also helps to explain why, in B&B we see remnants of a Liosan culture in the 'old ways' and ruins. He and Serap ruled there a long time. Great tie-ins!

Cool! Good catch, rep'd accordingly.

[gandrin]

Deadsmell said:

1362585961[/url]' post='1037174']
Hey,

The High King in this book, they are not talking about Kallor right? He cant be THAT old... right?

Though I remember there was a line where Kallor said he walked the world when Imass were but children.

Actually I thought something completely different. Why not dessembelackis? Or was that after Kallor?

[Illuyankas]

He walked this land while the Imass of the Second Ritual were children, maybe.