[NefaraisBredd]

Siergiej, on 27 August 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

Quote

He never ascends yet he is always at 'convergences' and he ain't afraid of Rake or Brood.

He is so unafraid, that he never crossed blades with any of them. At the siege of Coral he conveniently waited for anyone he suspected of having any real power to go fighting, so he could kill Silverfox. And even then, after being confronted with Tayschrenn, who had to deal with poisoned warrens, Kallor ran away screaming like a little girl. As awesome as he is, High King knows fear very well.

I submit that anyone would run away from Tayschrenn if he was pissed off. He wasn't even breaking a sweat when Rake unleashed hell at Pale.

[tiam]

NefaraisBredd, on 27 August 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

Siergiej, on 27 August 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

Quote

He never ascends yet he is always at 'convergences' and he ain't afraid of Rake or Brood.

He is so unafraid, that he never crossed blades with any of them. At the siege of Coral he conveniently waited for anyone he suspected of having any real power to go fighting, so he could kill Silverfox. And even then, after being confronted with Tayschrenn, who had to deal with poisoned warrens, Kallor ran away screaming like a little girl. As awesome as he is, High King knows fear very well.

I submit that anyone would run away from Tayschrenn if he was pissed off. He wasn't even breaking a sweat when Rake unleashed hell at Pale.

Thats not really true. He collapses and has to be carried away by marines.

His goal is to kill Silverfox. Anyone in that situation would wait until the powerhouses left.

[Tattersail_]

NefaraisBredd, on 27 August 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Abyss, on 27 August 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Gothos, on 27 August 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

... if he cannot die, what would happen to him if he was, say, hit on the head by Brood's hammer?

He can die. Just not easily.

Wasn't.one of the curses that he will never die?

Imagine never being able to die but having every bone in your body broken. I think Brood could manage that if he wanted. He could leave him like a big pile of pulp but an aware one.

[NefaraisBredd]

Thé impression that I got was Tayschrenn was acting à little more tired or 'spent' than hé actually was. As you say, hé wanted to clean house and Yes, i was stretching it à bit by the 'not-breaking à sweat' statement. I think thé main point is that he withstood thé full assault of an ascendant, hell, THE ascendant.

[tiam]

NefaraisBredd, on 28 August 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Thé impression that I got was Tayschrenn was acting à little more tired or 'spent' than hé actually was. As you say, hé wanted to clean house and Yes, i was stretching it à bit by the 'not-breaking à sweat' statement. I think thé main point is that he withstood thé full assault of an ascendant, hell, THE ascendant.

But thats the whole point he didnt. Rake himself tells us that he was busy expended vital power dispelling the demon that Tay unleashed. We also get a viewpoint in ROTCG that the ascendent held back to ensure there wasnt a rift like the one Tay eventually had to stopper. Its actually Rake who takes the full brunt, fights back and pulls back to save Moons Spawn. This exhausted Tays. Hes a second string power granted a high one.

[NefaraisBredd]

Each character is incredibly powerful, depending on circumstances. I agree that Rake is prolly top 3, however, we see many.times that huge amounts of power may not always save a character from mundane weaknesses that they all possess, in one way.or.another. just san observation.

[Kanese S's]

Ganoes Paran, on 28 August 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

NefaraisBredd, on 27 August 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Abyss, on 27 August 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Gothos, on 27 August 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

... if he cannot die, what would happen to him if he was, say, hit on the head by Brood's hammer?

He can die. Just not easily.

Wasn't.one of the curses that he will never die?

Imagine never being able to die but having every bone in your body broken. I think Brood could manage that if he wanted. He could leave him like a big pile of pulp but an aware one.

And this is what should happen to Kallor.

[Gothos]

Kanese S, on 15 September 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

And this is what should happen to Kallor.

And then what? Would you have Brood reapply the injury every time Kallor's body heals back up? Now that would be a really shit detail to get...
I do think Brood had the right idea about Kallor for a while, keeping him as a military advisor - kept him close and in check, more or less. Left to his own devices, Kallor is probably as dangerous as Icarium, if in different ways than raw power.

[Kanese S's]

Gothos, on 15 September 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Kanese S, on 15 September 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

And this is what should happen to Kallor.

And then what? Would you have Brood reapply the injury every time Kallor's body heals back up?

Yes. But not before taking all his century candles away. Or perhaps, after making sure to break Kallor's jaw and skull and ribs so that he couldn't speak, getting Draconus to come level an additional curse at him. That being to no longer get any beneficial effect from century candles.

[Gothos]

Don't think it's the century candles that keep him healing back. Don't know if you read Blood and Bone, but...

[Kanese S's]

I did read it, yes, and it appears you completely misinterpreted what I meant by my post.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

MBotF suggests that the "High King" doesn't necessarily refer to Kallor. From Memories of Ice:


"'The position of High King is vacant within the Crippled God's House of Chains.'
Kallor shrugged. 'None the less requiring that I stain my knees before the Chained One.'
'No such gestures are demanded of the High King. [...] Survival depends on those who come to the titles it contains. Some of those the Chained One can influence — though never directly — whilst others, such as that of King of High House Chains, must be freely assumed.'
'If so,' Kallor rumbled after a long moment, 'why are you not the King?'
Gethol bowed his head. 'You honour me, sir,' he said drily. 'I am, however, content to be Herald-'"

Notice the "King of High House Chains" gets called the "High King"---the Deck of Dragons has multiple High Houses, each with a King, who then assumes the title of High King?

Also, the High King in FoD rules over "the High Kingdom"; Kallor's Empire is never called that.

And the Azathanai cannot travel into the High Kingdom without bargaining with someone to be allowed in. The implication is that the High King, like the K'Chain Che'malle, has some means of warding off the Elder Gods/Azathanai. (Granted, it could be some other power preventing them from entering the High Kingdom, but there's no evidence for that.) While Kallor could conceivably have got ahold of K'Chain Che'Malle technology, if he had that power he would have prevented hostile Azathanai like Draconus, etc. from entering his territory; yet they did.

If not Kallor, who or what, then?
Presumably not KCM since it's a "he"---though we don't know much about K'Chain Nah'ruk.

It would be interesting if the first High King were leader of a group related to the Thel Akai, since

Spoiler

Kallor vows to, and eventually does, eradicate the Thel Akai.

. The ancient Toblakai are sea-faring people, hence the significance of "building a ship"; and the Thel Akai have either disavowed or been disavowed by the Azathanai. The evidence against this is Sechul and Errastas's exchange, "'Then do we travel to the Jheck? The Dog-Runners? Surely not the Thel Akai!' 'None of those, for the borders they share with the Azathanai. No, we must cross the sea'." But that's referring to the nearby lands occupied by the Thel Akai, not necessarily relatives of the Thel Akai across the sea.

If humans don't exist, what other options are there? Relatives of the Jheck and Dog-Runners? Tiste? Demons? Another species that could be described as having a "High King" who Errastas believes to be "beloved by his people" yet the inner "truths" of whose realm remain "hidden" to the Azathanai because they're prevented from entering without "bargain[ing]"?

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 08 February 2016 - 02:40 AM

[worry]

The question remains: Who can fill those High King boots?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Dumbledude, on 08 February 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

The question remains: Who can fill those High King boots?

Another possibility:

Spoiler

"From the Western Sea strange ships have grounded upon the harsh shore, with blue-skinned strangers arriving to offer Hood their swords." (Blurb for Fall of Light) The High Kingdom is across the sea, and the High King has started building a ship (possibly the first of several). And the blurb implies the blue-skinned strangers are a race distinct from the Dog-Runners, Jheck, and Thel Akai (though oddly it calls them "Toblakai"). Perhaps MBotF-era blue-skinned Napans are partly descended from them. If these blue-skinned proto-Napans were the High Kingdom, it would link well with the beginning of the MBotF, with Laseen being the first non-ordinary-human-looking character introduced and her name being Napan for "Thronemaster".

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 08 February 2016 - 05:24 AM

[Kellanved's shadow]

Sinisdar Toste, on 20 June 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

The mad thing is that even in MoI, kallor says he walked the earth when the t'lan imass were children... What mortal human could predate the tellann ritual?

That statement simply means that he was around shortly after the ritual of Tellann, as the Imass only became T'lan Imass after the ritule.

[BellaGrace]

Azath Vitr (D, on 08 February 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

Dumbledude, on 08 February 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

The question remains: Who can fill those High King boots?

Another possibility:

Spoiler

"From the Western Sea strange ships have grounded upon the harsh shore, with blue-skinned strangers arriving to offer Hood their swords." (Blurb for Fall of Light) The High Kingdom is across the sea, and the High King has started building a ship (possibly the first of several). And the blurb implies the blue-skinned strangers are a race distinct from the Dog-Runners, Jheck, and Thel Akai (though oddly it calls them "Toblakai"). Perhaps MBotF-era blue-skinned Napans are partly descended from them. If these blue-skinned proto-Napans were the High Kingdom, it would link well with the beginning of the MBotF, with Laseen being the first non-ordinary-human-looking character introduced and her name being Napan for "Thronemaster".

Based on the Fall of Light blurb - could the High King be Mael? He's one of the few known old gods that didn't have a part in FoD beyond a mention of his kingdom being far away. We know the Lethari continent (if that's what it's called) has strong ties to the Andii and Edur - we also know that Mael has been active in that area for a long time since there he has an ancient buried temple there - so it makes sense that Mael might end up involved in some way.

I admit I did not go back and read all the comments from years ago - but I thought High King = Kallor at first too, but it was Draconus/KRul/Sister of Cold Nights that defeated him and Sister of Cold Nights was also not in FoD and I'm starting to think she's someone who isn't around yet (I realize she could still be around and unmentioned). I read somewhere on this page that the SoCN could be "Zombie Enesdia"

This post has been edited by BellaGrace: 08 February 2016 - 08:11 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

BellaGrace, on 08 February 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 08 February 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

Dumbledude, on 08 February 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

The question remains: Who can fill those High King boots?

Another possibility:

Spoiler

"From the Western Sea strange ships have grounded upon the harsh shore, with blue-skinned strangers arriving to offer Hood their swords." (Blurb for Fall of Light) The High Kingdom is across the sea, and the High King has started building a ship (possibly the first of several). And the blurb implies the blue-skinned strangers are a race distinct from the Dog-Runners, Jheck, and Thel Akai (though oddly it calls them "Toblakai"). Perhaps MBotF-era blue-skinned Napans are partly descended from them. If these blue-skinned proto-Napans were the High Kingdom, it would link well with the beginning of the MBotF, with Laseen being the first non-ordinary-human-looking character introduced and her name being Napan for "Thronemaster".

Based on the Fall of Light blurb - could the High King be Mael? He's one of the few known old gods that didn't have a part in FoD beyond a mention of his kingdom being far away. We know the Lethari continent (if that's what it's called) has strong ties to the Andii and Edur - we also know that Mael has been active in that area for a long time since there he has an ancient buried temple there - so it makes sense that Mael might end up involved in some way.

I admit I did not go back and read all the comments from years ago - but I thought High King = Kallor at first too, but it was Draconus/KRul/Sister of Cold Nights that defeated him and Sister of Cold Nights was also not in FoD and I'm starting to think she's someone who isn't around yet (I realize she could still be around and unmentioned). I read somewhere on this page that the SoCN could be "Zombie Enesdia"

Mael could be important to the High Kingdom. But Sechul and Errastas don't think the High King is Mael:

"No, we must cross the sea [...]
Whither fled Mael?
He will not welcome us.
[...] beyond his realm, even.'
'The High Kingdom? Those borders are closed to the Azathani.'
'Then we must bargain our way into the demesne[...] There must be good reason why the King is so beloved among his people. Let us make this our next adventure, and discover all the hidden truths of the High Kingdom and its perfect liege."

That said, they don't seem to know much about the High King, so it could be Mael (maybe in another form, though presumably other Azathanai would be able to recognize that). And since they have to cross Mael's territory to get to the High Kingdom, he could be the force warding off the other Azathanai. It's very possible that Mael is the patron Azathanai of the High Kingdom, which could make the High King a precursor to Tehol (Draconus and MD are a bit like Tehol and Bugg).

One other thing about "building a ship"---the Tiste believe the Azathanai have ships that can (safely) gather and hold vitr. So if the High King has Azathanai support and access to the Vitr, that could be what freaks Draconus out about the "ship". Or perhaps whatever power prevents Azathanai from entering the High Kingdom without having to "bargain" for admission is portable....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 08 February 2016 - 08:45 PM