[Cyphon]

A picture of Robert Jordan at his sexiest.

I assume this is across all forums right? Not just this one.

[Terez]

HD - took you long enough.
Cy - he wishes.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

In Leigh Butler's spoiler review for the book, she mentions the following:

Quote

the question this book really needed to answer was simple: does the resolution of the story measure up to the vast buildup (by both design and circumstance) leading up to it? What we want to know is, does the Chosen One’s confrontation with his destined opponent—Evil made manifest—does that final battle, ultimately, work? And not to put too fine a point on it, I think that it did.

As an obvious scholar of the books, Terez, what did you think? Personally, I think it worked too, which is why my overall feel of the book was positive, even though I felt a definite disconnect due to Sanderson not being the creator and not having Jordan's thought process and memories.

[Terez]

I have a hard time not putting the fine point on it. Parts of it worked for me, and parts of it didn't. I liked the confrontation between Rand and the Dark One for its references to TGH "What Might Be". I didn't like its philosophical conclusions, though some would argue they are necessary to justify the Dark One's existence. Maybe they are necessary to justify his existence, but I would rather it not have been the showcase. Certain plot developments were, I think, not as clever as RJ thought they were. I thought most of the ending drew from the first 3 books, and the rest of it drew from the first 6, leaving most of books 7-10 hanging in the wind, which is unfortunate, because I have always been a great defender of those books and I'm less pleased to do so now. I liked certain parts of the design despite what I felt were unconvincing deliveries. At least half of the book seemed pointless to me, and some of it was painfully jarring (like Rand vs Mat in Ebou Dar). I could go on.

This post has been edited by Terez: 13 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Terez, on 13 February 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

I could go on.

And I would enjoy reading your sentiments. I think that the philosophical battle parts were nicely cut in with the action, so as not to bog down the readers who hate that shit.

Interesting you mentioned unconvincing deliveries, because, especially with Egwene, it felt like completely different characters from what I've know before. That made it difficult to enjoy their victory as much as I should have.

Still I think the breakneck pace and the arrival of the Shadowed Sharans and Demandred were enough to make me forget how unfamiliar it was while reading it. Its just that after I was done, all the inconsistent meta shit started filling in the blank spaces.

[Terez]

Stalking Stonny, on 13 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Terez, on 13 February 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

I could go on.

And I would enjoy reading your sentiments. I think that the philosophical battle parts were nicely cut in with the action, so as not to bog down the readers who hate that shit.

To me, it wasn't a matter of 'philosophical shit is boring', at least not in an Erikson kind of way. (Who was that one Andii dude in book 8, the old dude? Gah, he made me want to kill myself.) It was just a matter of the philosophy not being incredibly logical.

Stalking Stonny, on 13 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Interesting you mentioned unconvincing deliveries, because, especially with Egwene, it felt like completely different characters from what I've know before. That made it difficult to enjoy their victory as much as I should have.

I think there are a lot of elements to why the Egwene scene didn't floor me, and I'm sure most of them are products of what some would call overanalysis. What I liked about WoT was that it stood up to overanalysis, for the most part, and was clearly designed to do just that. That took a hit in these last three books, which is partly the fault of RJ's planning, and partly the fault of his death.

Stalking Stonny, on 13 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Still I think the breakneck pace and the arrival of the Shadowed Sharans and Demandred were enough to make me forget how unfamiliar it was while reading it. Its just that after I was done, all the inconsistent meta shit started filling in the blank spaces.

That's why it's apparently good to read AMOL and then forget about it, like the vast majority of readers do. If you can do that, then you're probably going to have a positive lasting impression.

[Tattersail_]

I really enjoyed the book. Thought it was a great ending to a series, one of the best. It's weird that the Sharans appeared at all. I like the fact they did because of all the magic they brought forth, otherwise the Seanchan and Aes Sedai would have just wiped their arse with the Dark Ones forces. The only way it could have been epic is that the Seanchan where the bad ones/Dark ones and that Tuon realised and joined the Aes Sedai forces or something like that.

[acesn8s]

Terez, on 13 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

That's why it's apparently good to read AMOL and then forget about it, like the vast majority of readers do. If you can do that, then you're probably going to have a positive lasting impression.

I agree with this. The more I reflect on the story, the more unsatisfied I become. I wasn't holding out for an outstanding finish, as RJ wasn't able to write it. After I finished the book I was content with the ending. Now I've started to nit pick on certain things: 2 Justices, Sharan's outta no where (I really wanted Demandred to be in plan sight), the potential for turned Aiel male channelers (for generations) being over shadowed by the Sharans, Androl having so much time in the last book, lack of Sul'dam being channelers resolution.

That being said, I'm still glad we were given the end of the story.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Yeah it WAS good. I read it so fast. In like 3 days (net time read), which is a record for me. The story moved really quick, despite a 500 page battle of the minds and a voice repeatedly crying from the heavens "Step up, Lews Therin!" The battle scenes were excellent. Mats big gamble WAS a big gamble, militarily. The interesting use of/horizontal gateways was cool as shit. I alwas though gateways were underutilized. When Androl did his lava trick I was beside myself.

Parts that threw me have already been discussed, but its weird cuz its now possible to both love and hate a book at the same time. Go figure.

Terez, on 13 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

(Who was that one Andii dude in book 8, the old dude? Gah, he made me want to kill myself.)

Endest Silann?

This post has been edited by Stalking Stonny: 13 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

[Terez]

Yes, him. That was the last book I read, but not because of him; I need a reread.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

But...so close...

[Terez]

I want to actually enjoy the ending, so I need to know who is who and what has gone before.

PS—I actually bought Dust of Dreams, so I only need to buy one more book. When I get around to doing a reread, if I can manage to make it to book 5 I'll go ahead and order it. The earlier books are harder for me to get through.

This post has been edited by Terez: 13 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

You take your time, my friend. You've done so much for the WoT fan in all of us.

[Terez]

lol, sometimes I feel like a party-crasher. Like, I commented in Abyss' thread, and it died...

[amphibian]

Terez, on 13 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

That's why it's apparently good to read AMOL and then forget about it, like the vast majority of readers do. If you can do that, then you're probably going to have a positive lasting impression.

This is kind of how the finale to the tv show Lost is. Insta-forgetting all of the handwaved stuff and not demanding the same level of intricacy/backstory of what went before makes for a vastly improved post-finale experience.

Too bad I couldn't actually do all of that...

[Terez]

alas, I sympathize... (not re: Lost, which I never watched...)

[Terez]

I did finish TTH. I just didn't make it past it.

[Ceda Cicero]

Terez, on 13 February 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

I want to actually enjoy the ending, so I need to know who is who and what has gone before.

PS—I actually bought Dust of Dreams, so I only need to buy one more book. When I get around to doing a reread, if I can manage to make it to book 5 I'll go ahead and order it. The earlier books are harder for me to get through.

Not to interject too much MBotF in a RJ thread, but Terez, if the slow-paced, Endest Silann arcs in TtH are what stymied you, I think you'll find if you can hit Dust of Dreams on a reread, it's (comparatively speaking, since we are talking Erikson here--read, there's still meandering) minimal philosophy and balls to the wall from there on out.

And since this is a thread about AMoL, I'll throw in just a few cents. I enjoyed the shit out of it, but I think that could be more damning for the book than anything else. I voraciously consumed EotW to LoC, waited with baited breath for ACoS, slightly less baited breath for PoD, then got around to WH when it came out in paperback. When CoT was released I tried a reread since I'd forgotten a whole great deal, but I made it to FoH and lost steam.

I skipped CoT entirely, more or less scanned KoD not long after RJ died, and only threw myself into the Sanderson books just in time to finish ToM before AMoL came out. So suffice to say, I'm a fairweather fan, and going into the finale of the series my memory of what came before was about as good as Mat's. Issues like the ones you guys noted with Egwene's inconsistency, for example, didn't bother me at all—she was easily my MVP in the last three books.

I hate to say it, but I imagine there are a lot of people out there like me who at the end of the day, read this book and were satisfied by it, but on the whole would never think of branding themselves as WoT fans after getting bucked off the horse somewhere between 6-10 and never working up the balls to get back on in a serious way. I sort of feel like I should apologize for that, being a completist and a seasoned fantasy fan and all that. But then, Terez, I see you reaction and I sort of don't feel bad.

Then again, maybe a lack of 100% satisfaction with an ending is the price you pay for 100% commitment and obsessive compulsive overanalysis. Honestly, I was more satisfied by AMoL as an ending than I was with the Crippled God, but I'm maybe a level 4 WoT fan and a level 99 MBotF when it comes to the respective series.

I'm drunk, by the way. So imma shuttup now.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 17 February 2013 - 12:46 AM

[Grimjust Bearegular]

Finished, and satisfied, although some sections were poorly written, and the whole book felt a bit rushed, but overall emotion: HAPPY/SAD!


Now, some questions:

What happened at the end there with Rand and the pipe?

Why didn't the good channelers just box the shadowspawn in with gateways at any given point, and jus stab them through the gateways instead of being surrounded and overrun? At Tarwin's Gap for example, the Ashaman could have just opened a gateway across the entire gap, stood on the other side and killed the trollocs and such with ranged attacks and been more or less safe since shadowspawn can't fucking enter a gateway without dying...is there something I'm missing here?

I though Alivia helping Rand to die was going to be a bit more than getting him clothes, money and a horse...

[Grimjust Bearegular]

Briar King, on 19 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

The pipe lighting was him bending the Pattern to his will, so basically even though he can't channel anymore he's still a badass.

Ah, of course. Thanks