[Malankazooie]

Is this the droid you're looking for?

Taika Waititi's 'Star Wars' Movie Will Reject Pre-Existing Characters and Origins: 'Expand the World

[QuickTidal]

Well that was a SPECTACULAR finale.

My gods...I don't think I've enjoyed Disney+ Star Wars content on that level ever, even the best episodes of MANDO are not QUITE as good as this was. But then Obi-Wan has always been my fave Jedi.

Let's dig in.

MAJOR SPOILERS, do not click unless you've seen it!

Spoiler

Let's get the lesser, but still cool stuff out of the way. The conflict in Reva as she basically goes through the motions of what she thought might still help Vader...the dark side still wildly tugging at her. Only to see 10 year old Luke, helpless and injured and her heart turns back. It was a lovely way to bring her back to the light. I actually expect her to shift to helping the Path.

Owen and Beru going all John Wick on Reva was something I didn't expect, but it really helped sell how much Owen and Beru just want Luke to have a calm life far from the things that brought down his father. And Owen's comment of "He IS my son" when Reva tests him, was wonderful.

Leia was once again amazing, and the actress who plays her really feels like the young version of Carrie Fisher. She was great, and I still love her little droid Lola.

Now onto the meat. Anakin/Vader Obi-Wan.

What an INCREDIBLE lightsaber battle. I love how Vader is still kind of handing Obi-Wan his ass for the first bit and Obi-Wan was on the back foot, and it gave Vader more confidence...so he buries Obi-Wan thinking he won...

And Obi-Wan mentally flashing on Leia and Luke and being like FUCK NO, I AM NOT LETTING YOU DO THIS, and unleashes holy fucking hell on Vader...culminating in thats lightsaber slice of his mask (note that Ahsoka Cut the right side of his mask on REBELS and Obi-Wan cuts the left of it here; and Luke gets the whole thing off once he get Vader to turn back; so poetic!)

...and then seeing Anakin's face exposed he immediately buckles again....and his grief threatens to overwhelm him...

"Anakin."

Vader: "Anakin is gone. I am what remains."

"I'm sorry.

Anakin, I'm sorry.

For all of it."

Vader: "I am not your failure Obi-Wan. You did not kill Anakin Skywalker. [lip twists] I did."

When I tell you I fucking SOBBED....I fucking sobbed. That little bit of dialogue carries SO MUCH weight.

It absolves Obi-Wan of the thing that's been plaguing him....that he let his brother down, that this was somehow his fault for not seeing it, for not being there to help him fight the dark side Palps was pushing on him. Which I view as a final kindness to his old master. You'll notice that while he's saying that he's lit with the blue lightsaber light....but after he says "I did" the blue light leaves his face and only the red remains. Goddamn this show is perfectly crafted.

The "Hello there" to Luke, and the conciliatory nature of Owen when he realizes that Obi-Wan cares as much about Luke as he and Beru do....that was a nice moment.

Also, can we talk about the sheer amount of canon sew-up moments that fit and work perfectly?

We have:

Leia doesn't say "Hey remember me, when you helped when I was a kid?" to Obi-Wan in the message in ANH, because Obi-Wan told her in this episode that she would be in danger if she indicated she knew him, so they keep it vague.

In ANH Vader says "when we last met I was but the learner, but now I am the master"...this is still true as Obi-Wan hands him his fucking asshole in a jar in this fight.

Vader says "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, I did." which accounts for Obi-Wan telling Luke that Vader betrayed and murdered his father (from a certain point of view).

Obi-Wan realizes his friend is entirely gone, and so says "Good-bye Darth"....this accounts for Alec Guiness calling him "Darth" in A NEW HOPE like it's first name...his friend is gone, so it may as well be a first name.

The Emperor (surprise McDiarmid Cameo!) essentially tells Vader to STOP looking for Obi-Wan and that they have other things to concern themselves with (I expect this is on the back of the Grand Inquisitor LIKELY went to the Emperor about Vader letting a whole ship of force sensitives go to chase a single Jedi) and Vader agrees to....this is a good reason why Vader stops looking for him and how Obi-Wan, Luke, Owen and Beru stay essentially unmolested until ANH.

Leia's holster was a nice touch.

Lastly, but not least...QUI GON JINN! I mean we all knew this was coming, but it was still amazing to see. I love that he kind of rips on Obi-Wan when he sees him "Took you long enough". I also love that as Qui Gon implies while Obi-Wan was still suffering through years of turmoil inside about Anakin he could never be calm enough and one with the force enough to perceive him. Just a lovely little scene and I'm SO happy Liam came back for it.

Now, IF they wanted to do a Season 2 as it kind of being talked about....you steer entirely clear of Vader...that parts done. That meeting should be the last meeting they have till ANH. So now you can dive into connective tissue with SOLO and have Obi-Wan helping uncover and dismantle Black Sun...and who is at the core of Black Sun? Maul. So you spend the season having Obi-Wan slowly stymie Maul's efforts as a mob boss and as Maul starts to realize who is doing it, he begins to search for him...and you do a live action version of the Obi-Wan VS Maul on Tatooine scene from REBELS for your finale. And then you can let Obi-Wan Rest.

That said, if they don't do another season and this was all we got, I'm still WELL beyond satisfied. Anything else will be cream.

45 years and Star Wars can still reduce me to a little kid watching my heroes fight the good fight.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 June 2022 - 12:51 PM

[Malankazooie]

I think the next topic that needs to be explored and given a series is a boot camp type situation where we follow new enlistments as they train to be Stormtroopers. We need to get to the bottom of why they are such shit aims with their pew pew pew blaster rifles. I mean, what's the deal? Expediting their processing through training to fulfill need of boots on the ground at the expense of well trained infantry? What up?

[Tsundoku]

 Malankazooie, on 23 June 2022 - 08:16 PM, said:

I think the next topic that needs to be explored and given a series is a boot camp type situation where we follow new enlistments as they train to be Stormtroopers. We need to get to the bottom of why they are such shit aims with their pew pew pew blaster rifles. I mean, what's the deal? Expediting their processing through training to fulfill need of boots on the ground at the expense of well trained infantry? What up?

[Tiste Simeon]

 QuickTidal, on 23 June 2022 - 12:44 PM, said:

Well that was a SPECTACULAR finale.

My gods...I don't think I've enjoyed Disney+ Star Wars content on that level ever, even the best episodes of MANDO are not QUITE as good as this was. But then Obi-Wan has always been my fave Jedi.

Let's dig in.

MAJOR SPOILERS, do not click unless you've seen it!

Spoiler

Let's get the lesser, but still cool stuff out of the way. The conflict in Reva as she basically goes through the motions of what she thought might still help Vader...the dark side still wildly tugging at her. Only to see 10 year old Luke, helpless and injured and her heart turns back. It was a lovely way to bring her back to the light. I actually expect her to shift to helping the Path.

Owen and Beru going all John Wick on Reva was something I didn't expect, but it really helped sell how much Owen and Beru just want Luke to have a calm life far from the things that brought down his father. And Owen's comment of "He IS my son" when Reva tests him, was wonderful.

Leia was once again amazing, and the actress who plays her really feels like the young version of Carrie Fisher. She was great, and I still love her little droid Lola.

Now onto the meat. Anakin/Vader Obi-Wan.

What an INCREDIBLE lightsaber battle. I love how Vader is still kind of handing Obi-Wan his ass for the first bit and Obi-Wan was on the back foot, and it gave Vader more confidence...so he buries Obi-Wan thinking he won...

And Obi-Wan mentally flashing on Leia and Luke and being like FUCK NO, I AM NOT LETTING YOU DO THIS, and unleashes holy fucking hell on Vader...culminating in thats lightsaber slice of his mask (note that Ahsoka Cut the right side of his mask on REBELS and Obi-Wan cuts the left of it here; and Luke gets the whole thing off once he get Vader to turn back; so poetic!)

...and then seeing Anakin's face exposed he immediately buckles again....and his grief threatens to overwhelm him...

"Anakin."

Vader: "Anakin is gone. I am what remains."

"I'm sorry.

Anakin, I'm sorry.

For all of it."

Vader: "I am not your failure Obi-Wan. You did not kill Anakin Skywalker. [lip twists] I did."

When I tell you I fucking SOBBED....I fucking sobbed. That little bit of dialogue carries SO MUCH weight.

It absolves Obi-Wan of the thing that's been plaguing him....that he let his brother down, that this was somehow his fault for not seeing it, for not being there to help him fight the dark side Palps was pushing on him. Which I view as a final kindness to his old master. You'll notice that while he's saying that he's lit with the blue lightsaber light....but after he says "I did" the blue light leaves his face and only the red remains. Goddamn this show is perfectly crafted.

The "Hello there" to Luke, and the conciliatory nature of Owen when he realizes that Obi-Wan cares as much about Luke as he and Beru do....that was a nice moment.

Also, can we talk about the sheer amount of canon sew-up moments that fit and work perfectly?

We have:

Leia doesn't say "Hey remember me, when you helped when I was a kid?" to Obi-Wan in the message in ANH, because Obi-Wan told her in this episode that she would be in danger if she indicated she knew him, so they keep it vague.

In ANH Vader says "when we last met I was but the learner, but now I am the master"...this is still true as Obi-Wan hands him his fucking asshole in a jar in this fight.

Vader says "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, I did." which accounts for Obi-Wan telling Luke that Vader betrayed and murdered his father (from a certain point of view).

Obi-Wan realizes his friend is entirely gone, and so says "Good-bye Darth"....this accounts for Alec Guiness calling him "Darth" in A NEW HOPE like it's first name...his friend is gone, so it may as well be a first name.

The Emperor (surprise McDiarmid Cameo!) essentially tells Vader to STOP looking for Obi-Wan and that they have other things to concern themselves with (I expect this is on the back of the Grand Inquisitor LIKELY went to the Emperor about Vader letting a whole ship of force sensitives go to chase a single Jedi) and Vader agrees to....this is a good reason why Vader stops looking for him and how Obi-Wan, Luke, Owen and Beru stay essentially unmolested until ANH.

Leia's holster was a nice touch.

Lastly, but not least...QUI GON JINN! I mean we all knew this was coming, but it was still amazing to see. I love that he kind of rips on Obi-Wan when he sees him "Took you long enough". I also love that as Qui Gon implies while Obi-Wan was still suffering through years of turmoil inside about Anakin he could never be calm enough and one with the force enough to perceive him. Just a lovely little scene and I'm SO happy Liam came back for it.

Now, IF they wanted to do a Season 2 as it kind of being talked about....you steer entirely clear of Vader...that parts done. That meeting should be the last meeting they have till ANH. So now you can dive into connective tissue with SOLO and have Obi-Wan helping uncover and dismantle Black Sun...and who is at the core of Black Sun? Maul. So you spend the season having Obi-Wan slowly stymie Maul's efforts as a mob boss and as Maul starts to realize who is doing it, he begins to search for him...and you do a live action version of the Obi-Wan VS Maul on Tatooine scene from REBELS for your finale. And then you can let Obi-Wan Rest.

That said, if they don't do another season and this was all we got, I'm still WELL beyond satisfied. Anything else will be cream.

45 years and Star Wars can still reduce me to a little kid watching my heroes fight the good fight.

I too loved this series but can't write quite so elegantly or with as much knowledge as QT so I'll just just say "yep!"

Actually

Spoiler

The "Hello there!" Line had me chortling based on the pure amount of memes based on it.

Also, gutted Vader didn't make some line about now having the higher ground haha

[QuickTidal]

We are planning a trip to Galaxy's Edge with the kiddos in the fall, and I'd be lying if I didn't say I was kind of exited!

[QuickTidal]

I'd like to make a small concession.

About THE LAST JEDI

I think my upset about it blinded me to a really poignant part of it.

Kylo Ren is MISERABLE after he asks Rey to join him and she refuses. I've NEVER noticed this (I've only seen the movie once, so you'll have to forgive me). He basically gives her the Vader/Emperor offer and she refuses him and it makes him miserable. Coupled with another thing...when Luke's image tells Leia that "no one is gone forever"....I think I assumed he was talking about himself to his sister, and maybe Han....but fuck me...he's talking about Kylo. He KNOWS Ben can be redeemed. This allows me to think Luke spent like 6 years being shitty, but has finally figured it out that no one is bad forever....and I CAN'T believe I never noticed this in the film....I think I always thought that Rian was hell bent on Kylo being the big bad..but he wasn't. The last act of his film shows that Kylo is not only pulled to the light still, but his Master feels he's redeemable.

This changes a BIG reason I didn't like the movie. And now I feel like I might be able to watch it (in portions) and not hate it outright.

I still dislike MANY aspects of it, and most of those won't change and I still don't like Rian Johnson as a person (I think he's a smug shit)...but I can find things to like about this film now.

So this is me like 5 years later, being conciliatory about a movie I hated, and saying I don't hate it as much as I did, and there is value in parts of it.

There. Have at me, everyone who I raged at about this movie. I deserve it.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 24 June 2022 - 01:09 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

I... Wow...

Never thought I'd see the day!

[QuickTidal]

 Tiste Simeon, on 24 June 2022 - 05:06 PM, said:

I... Wow...

Never thought I'd see the day!

No one more surprised than I. 😂

[Slow Ben]

Nope. Dont care. Still shite.




Wrapping up Kenobi tonight, middle episodes were much better than the beginning.

But by god, i swear they're taking this stormtrooper bad shot thing to an entirely new level.

[Tsundoku]

 Slow Ben, on 24 June 2022 - 07:53 PM, said:

But by god, I swear they're taking this stormtrooper bad shot thing to an entirely new level.

... they get worse?

I was waiting for them all to drop so I could have the option of binging if I liked it.

[Briar King]

It’s done so go for it. Me personally I’m going to do my very best to forget I ever saw it.

[Briar King]

 Slow Ben, on 24 June 2022 - 07:53 PM, said:

Nope. Dont care. Still shite.




Wrapping up Kenobi tonight, middle episodes were much better than the beginning.

But by god, i swear they're taking this stormtrooper bad shot thing to an entirely new level.

If only it was limited to the troopers…we get

Spoiler

shitty Star Destroyer aim in this gem of a show now. Vader’s personal fucking SD at that.

[Slow Ben]

Ok, I wrapped up Kenobi last night.

I’m somewhere in between you two. I liked most of the storylines, but thought the confrontation around the dunes was pointless and not well done.

What throws me off about these series is how poorly things are done, or how pointless, or how we’re just supposed to accept that these stupid things are ok and move on.

Reva parkouring to nowhere, the chase through the woods with Leia, 100+ Stormtroopers opening fire on a cluster of rebels standing in the open and not hitting anything for 10 seconds, a freighter that can somehow take more direct hits than a star destroyer, etc. (there’s many more head scratchers)

There’s just so many poorly done things that it drastically distracts from the good. Book of BF was the same.

But the Vader/Obi Wan in the finale. Pretty damn good.

[Briar King]

Obi Wan some overall thoughts. I have plenty more just don't know if I have the care for this show to list more things after this or not.

Spoiler

Ok I was over the moon when this project was 1st announced. To see what this great character this fucking LEGEND did in exile and in the background on his most important task of his life...to protect Luke Skywalker from any and all threats that may arise. Yes! Not just yes but FUCK YES! The EU was had some great little nuggets for this time. All my excitement was mostly shattered upon learning that Hayden would be back but not just be back but actually crossing blades with Obi again. I was hoping it would be limited to just flashbacks and not full-on Vader vs Obi rematch upon learning this but the fear that someone was going to try and be clever and work around holes in the dialog and plot from 40 yrs that would be better off ignored really took the wind out of my sails. It was frustrating enough when Lucas messed with his own stuff but it's his baby so he could do that shit. As the slow weeks have gone by I feel justified in my fears for this show and seeing the praise roll in on the Net for it has been one of the strangest things as a SW fan to see.

Reva, I began to object to this character the moment she came to close to the mark with Owen in the market in episode 1 and it just took off from there.

Leia, she was in this why? She isn't Obi Wan's burden unless Luke fails or dies. That's the way like it or not. The only reason I can see was to build up this Reva person that somehow is the only one smart enough to connect Bail and Obi and thus come close to the mark for a 2nd time on the ultimate secret hope for the galaxy. Why was Leia in the Inq Fort? Because someone thought it would be clever to try and show why Vader never connected the dots, she was his daughter in 4&5 is my guess. Look how powerful she is! She can go undetected in the one place specifically made to find out if someone is Force Sensitive. Give me a break this is too much to take. Does the Empire keep records? What's to stop the Imps from just um trying again to draw out Obi other than the trying to be clever writing with Palps fussing at Vader in the end? I guess they just leave the traitor Bail free for another 9 yrs. because they don't have enough evidence from these horrendous eps quite yet.

The Inquisitors in this show were fucking weird to watch compared to past shows. It's bad that Reva is to blood thirsty even for her fellow bad guys whose job it is to inflict terror upon the galaxy. Also, if Obi knows what an Inq is are we supposed to believe that in 10 yrs time he has never fucking heard about Lord fucking Darth Vader!? I legit recoiled at Reva's little speech in ep 2. If they were going this route of him not knowing this shit just think how much more impactful ep 3 COULD have been when Obi felt Vader on Jabeem. What a missed opportunity for these never should have happened reunions!

Obi had one job. Protect Luke and train him to become a jedi. He failed spectacularly at it to in this show. Thank you, Reva, for not killing Luke and ending the hope of the galaxy for us. Fuck this shit. I refuse to acknowledge this part exist now not to mention the image of Luke ever running from someone with a lightsaber after him. Why is she still alive? I won't even get into how stupid I find her to be by attacking Vader after making a plan with Obi. Just brilliant move there Reva. With Obi Wan finding his balls at the end this chick should be dead having the knowledge she now possesses of Luke. It's a threat. Or at least it was in old SW. Seriously! Also, since they decided to be clever with "The darkside is a pathway to many abilities...yada yada then why doesn't she plop dead after being redeemed (ugh this shit is getting overdone) and no longer channeling said darkside stuff? Makes no sense to me.

We all know SW reuses the same stuff like 3 Death Stars but things are tweaked about them each time. This show just straight up rips other stuff off just to get it on live action though and in these cases when it comes to this show I liked it better in its original form over the show. We get a copy of events from Jedi Fallen Order and Rebels. I ll be frazzled to if I can get more of a reaction of seeing an animated Anakin and lose my shit on the emotional impact that Ahsoka is showing us rather than Hayden and Ewan having it ripped and feeling nothing other than wondering how much longer is this episode? What a feeling to experience.

This show also just looked soooooooo cheap. From weird wire work to subpar landscape graphics and changing scales in regards to ships. I didn't like the shakiness of the fights or the lighting and I wound being particularly annoyed with the constant Anakin v Dooku AOTC overly glowing blades in a dark area. It was overdone. Then we have that god-awful flashback with 40 yr old looking Anakin, I mean I know we are on a tv budget here but seriously? Hell my daughter is even commenting on that after the fact as we just got done watching AOTC. Not to mention the fact there was not a single ship flying around in the background the entire time that I can recall. Its fucking Courascant ffs!

I did enjoy Owen and Beru at all times. Thats the only thing and that's sad for me. I did have some day one feels just seeing old faces but that was gone before the day was done and I had had some time to think.

[QuickTidal]

Re-watched SOLO for the first time since the theatre and I am surprised at just how much I love it. It's REALLY good, and between this and ROGUE ONE consider me extra sad they didn't continue to keep making the Anthology films. Like I would love to see Lando and Han (and Chewie) from SOLO show up on any further season of OBI-WAN they do....especially since Han and Chewie are clearly going to Tatooine to work for Jabba (as Beckett mentioned in SOLO), and Qi'Ra is summoned to Dathomir to work with Maul...so there you have a second season. Obi-Wan helps Han and Chewie and Lando take down Maul's Crimson Dawn crime syndicate, and that's how he knows they are worthy to help him and Luke in ANH get off-world when he sees them in Moe Eisley Cantina.

Just a thought.

[Abyss]

Just finished OBI WAN KENOBI.
I really enjoyed that.
And the finale....

Spoiler

I was ready for the epic battle between Ben and Vader. I expected QuiGon to show up.
...but Beru and Owen ready to throw down with an Inquisitor to defend Luke... THAT, I did not see coming .

Great fun series, very entertaining, I hope they do more.

[Mezla PigDog]

Finished Obi Wan, finally.

Spoiler

My favourite bit by a gazillion miles was the final fight between Vader and Obi Wan, the first portion where Vader has the upper hand and the way Vader moves with his cloak instead of being all stiff like the original trilogy (bear in mind my only Star Wars knowledge is live action movies). Finally - he's a proper bad ass!

The latest trilogy and this have elevated Leia to my favourite character. I would have expected the kid to be irritating and she kind of was but also - if course she's brilliant, she's a 10 year old Princess Leia!

I liked it and it got better and better as it went on. But yeah, the shooting was immersion spoiling baaaaaaaad.

@QT - I really liked Kylo Ren in a re-watch. He's like an emo Vader (and Vader is pretty emo). Ren takes it to the next level. And on the one hand it's irritating and lazy writing, but on the other hand, he's 100% invested in it so I could go with it. He's so desperate to be awesome and then so desperate to have Rey agree he's awesome. He's a lost little boy because he's been manipulated so terribly. It's Shakespearean and Adam Driver did brilliantly with it. Sure it if it had been more nuanced it would have elevated it but ... Star Wars.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 15 July 2022 - 10:21 PM

[Briar King]

[Briar King]