[worry]

What proportion of people with Force sensitivity don't become Jedi or other such trainee? There are people w/ Force sensitivity just living their 'normal' lives, right? Like harvesting crops w/ the Force, etc.?

[Salt-Man Z]

QuickTidal, on 25 January 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Yeah, as far as I know she's never even touched a lightsaber or used her force powers much beyond "sensing" Luke and others in the force.

She had lightsaber duels with Alema Rar in at least 2 of the Dark Nest books (including cutting off one of Alema's lekku) and is pictured on the cover of The Unseen Queen holding her lightsaber.

[QuickTidal]

Cheesewiz, on 26 January 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 25 January 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 January 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Yeah, as far as I know she's never even touched a lightsaber or used her force powers much beyond "sensing" Luke and others in the force.

She had lightsaber duels with Alema Rar in at least 2 of the Dark Nest books (including cutting off one of Alema's lekku) and is pictured on the cover of The Unseen Queen holding her lightsaber.

He's talking about the new canon

Yep. New canon.

In old canon I know she busted out a light sabre more than a few times and trained with Luke.

[Salt-Man Z]

Cheesewiz, on 26 January 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

He's talking about the new canon

Ah. I missed that the "missteps of TFA" quote was QT's, and thought he was later agreeing with the "WTF?" comment. Derp.

[Traveller]

I'm not sure they will do another redeem arc.. in a way I hope not. TFA could be setting up Ben as another cold, detached villain like Vader at his best/worst.

Maybe like so bad that Anakins ghost can't help.

[Andorion]

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

At that point Obi-Wan, while still very much the personality we knew him as, was MUCH brasher and more impetuous. He would not have wanted to train an apprentice if he'd had his choice...and he wasn't too sure of Anakin. But after Qui-Gon died, I think he felt beholden to his old master to train the boy in his stead. So duty overruled any of his own feelings on the matter, which he would have shoved aside. It seemed like Yoda and the Council were not too happy to have Obi-Wan train him and pushed for that not to happen, but Obi-Wan stood firm on fulfilling his promise, and the Council buckling. Yoda especially did not agree with the allowance, but the Council overruled him to allow it.

I don't think it was ever explained further than that.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 06 March 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

At that point Obi-Wan, while still very much the personality we knew him as, was MUCH brasher and more impetuous. He would not have wanted to train an apprentice if he'd had his choice...and he wasn't too sure of Anakin. But after Qui-Gon died, I think he felt beholden to his old master to train the boy in his stead. So duty overruled any of his own feelings on the matter, which he would have shoved aside. It seemed like Yoda and the Council were not too happy to have Obi-Wan train him and pushed for that not to happen, but Obi-Wan stood firm on fulfilling his promise, and the Council buckling. Yoda especially did not agree with the allowance, but the Council overruled him to allow it.

I don't think it was ever explained further than that.

Briar King, on 06 March 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't think it was much expanded on other then in Ep1 with Qui Gon demanding a promise of Obi to train the boy.

I guess I have always felt that Anakin was handled badly by the Jedi.

He was made to feel unwanted by the Council at the end of Phantom Menace, given to a new inexperienced Knight who did not really like him and acted out of obligation, and later his manifesting problems were never taken seriously or addressed.

[Traveller]

Andorion, on 07 March 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 06 March 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

At that point Obi-Wan, while still very much the personality we knew him as, was MUCH brasher and more impetuous. He would not have wanted to train an apprentice if he'd had his choice...and he wasn't too sure of Anakin. But after Qui-Gon died, I think he felt beholden to his old master to train the boy in his stead. So duty overruled any of his own feelings on the matter, which he would have shoved aside. It seemed like Yoda and the Council were not too happy to have Obi-Wan train him and pushed for that not to happen, but Obi-Wan stood firm on fulfilling his promise, and the Council buckling. Yoda especially did not agree with the allowance, but the Council overruled him to allow it.

I don't think it was ever explained further than that.

Briar King, on 06 March 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't think it was much expanded on other then in Ep1 with Qui Gon demanding a promise of Obi to train the boy.

I guess I have always felt that Anakin was handled badly by the Jedi.

He was made to feel unwanted by the Council at the end of Phantom Menace, given to a new inexperienced Knight who did not really like him and acted out of obligation, and later his manifesting problems were never taken seriously or addressed.

Yoda later looks back in regret about the events before and during the clone wars. He realises too late the effects of the hidden Sith among them, and said it 'clouded their judgement on many things '. At the time Anakin became an apprentice, there was much fear among the council itself - they were afraid of what they sensed of his future, and made it a self-fulfilling prophecy by alienating him.

But the main reason for accepting him was Qui-Gons last wish.

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 07 March 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 06 March 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

At that point Obi-Wan, while still very much the personality we knew him as, was MUCH brasher and more impetuous. He would not have wanted to train an apprentice if he'd had his choice...and he wasn't too sure of Anakin. But after Qui-Gon died, I think he felt beholden to his old master to train the boy in his stead. So duty overruled any of his own feelings on the matter, which he would have shoved aside. It seemed like Yoda and the Council were not too happy to have Obi-Wan train him and pushed for that not to happen, but Obi-Wan stood firm on fulfilling his promise, and the Council buckling. Yoda especially did not agree with the allowance, but the Council overruled him to allow it.

I don't think it was ever explained further than that.

Briar King, on 06 March 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't think it was much expanded on other then in Ep1 with Qui Gon demanding a promise of Obi to train the boy.

I guess I have always felt that Anakin was handled badly by the Jedi.

He was made to feel unwanted by the Council at the end of Phantom Menace, given to a new inexperienced Knight who did not really like him and acted out of obligation, and later his manifesting problems were never taken seriously or addressed.

Tacked onto what Traveler said, there is also the fact that the Emperor was aware of and exploited a Sith vault/Shrine DEEP beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. The ancient Jedi who built the temple there originally did so to try to stifle the dark side well of power by building a temple of light above it. This fact was not apparently noted in the Jedi Archives (as it was a divisive topic amongst the Jedi who built there), and as such only the Sith knew about it. Thus Sidious knew about it.

So the clouding of the Jedi minds during the Clone Wars with regards to major decisions and using their own fear ( a tenet that was against their religion ) against them was wielded by Sidious using the well of Sith power beneath the Jedi's own house as a source to do that and keep it happening over all those years. Their choices were not what they might have been otherwise. This is canon. Sidious and Dooku visit the shrine in THE CLONE WARS.

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

Iirc, at the meeting with the Council in TPM, Obiwan states flat out that he's ready to take the tests to advance to Master and neither Quigon nor anyone else disagrees.

What makes you think Obiwan doesn't like Anakin at that point? ...they barely exchange five words the entire movie, Anakin is more or less entirely Quigon's obsession.

[Traveller]

QuickTidal, on 07 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 March 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 06 March 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

At that point Obi-Wan, while still very much the personality we knew him as, was MUCH brasher and more impetuous. He would not have wanted to train an apprentice if he'd had his choice...and he wasn't too sure of Anakin. But after Qui-Gon died, I think he felt beholden to his old master to train the boy in his stead. So duty overruled any of his own feelings on the matter, which he would have shoved aside. It seemed like Yoda and the Council were not too happy to have Obi-Wan train him and pushed for that not to happen, but Obi-Wan stood firm on fulfilling his promise, and the Council buckling. Yoda especially did not agree with the allowance, but the Council overruled him to allow it.

I don't think it was ever explained further than that.

Briar King, on 06 March 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't think it was much expanded on other then in Ep1 with Qui Gon demanding a promise of Obi to train the boy.

I guess I have always felt that Anakin was handled badly by the Jedi.

He was made to feel unwanted by the Council at the end of Phantom Menace, given to a new inexperienced Knight who did not really like him and acted out of obligation, and later his manifesting problems were never taken seriously or addressed.

Tacked onto what Traveler said, there is also the fact that the Emperor was aware of and exploited a Sith vault/Shrine DEEP beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. The ancient Jedi who built the temple there originally did so to try to stifle the dark side well of power by building a temple of light above it. This fact was not apparently noted in the Jedi Archives (as it was a divisive topic amongst the Jedi who built there), and as such only the Sith knew about it. Thus Sidious knew about it.

So the clouding of the Jedi minds during the Clone Wars with regards to major decisions and using their own fear ( a tenet that was against their religion ) against them was wielded by Sidious using the well of Sith power beneath the Jedi's own house as a source to do that and keep it happening over all those years. Their choices were not what they might have been otherwise. This is canon. Sidious and Dooku visit the shrine in THE CLONE WARS.

I personally love the location of the secret Sith shrine, as it can be used to explain a lot about the behaviour of the Jedi council through the CWs, plus how Sidious managed to stay hidden for so long.

The original RotJ script had the showdown with Luke and the Emperor there before they relocated that scene to the Death Star.

Also, in scenes that never made it to the screen, both Obi Wan and Yoda (ghosts) were helping Luke by 'clouding' the mind of Palpatine. One line survives, when Vader reports Luke's location on Endor... 'Strange that I have not.'
The same clouding of the Jedi minds by Palps was happening all through the Cws, using power from the temple below. Might help explain the daft decisions made regarding Anakin.

Has anyone seen the (apparently) unused scripts from ep3 where after killing Windu, Palpatine reveals to Anakin that it was him that manipulated the Force to create him? Thus giving Anakin real proof that he could use the force to create life, and therefore teach him how to save Padme? I've seen it referred to online but I don't know the authenticity of that particular statement.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 07 March 2017 - 05:00 PM

[QuickTidal]

Traveller, on 07 March 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

Has anyone seen the (apparently) unused scripts from ep3 where after killing Windu, Palpatine reveals to Anakin that it was him that manipulated the Force to create him? Thus giving Anakin real proof that he could use thr force to create life, and therefore teach him how to save Padme? I've seen it referred to online but I don't know the authenticity of that particular myth.

This is still quasi-canon VIA the TARKIN book...in which it is obliquely referenced (Sidious and Plagueis manipulating the Force and the force lashing back....with Anakin's immaculate creation) enough to infer the story is canon.

[Traveller]

Yeah but there's a difference between the force lashing back against the unnatural order and so creating Anakin; and Palpatine actually creating Anakin himself, (I am your Father!) and almost grooming him to power all through his training.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 07 March 2017 - 05:35 PM

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 07 March 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

...

There were so many people that said what Ando did at the time it was new. ....

99%of this likely just comes down to Ani-hate.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 07 March 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

Iirc, at the meeting with the Council in TPM, Obiwan states flat out that he's ready to take the tests to advance to Master and neither Quigon nor anyone else disagrees.

What makes you think Obiwan doesn't like Anakin at that point? ...they barely exchange five words the entire movie, Anakin is more or less entirely Quigon's obsession.

Huh, I somehow always got the vibe that Obi Wan disliked the kid.

I also thought it was odd that the Council agreed just because Obi Wan wanted it.

Briar King, on 07 March 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Abyss, on 07 March 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

Iirc, at the meeting with the Council in TPM, Obiwan states flat out that he's ready to take the tests to advance to Master and neither Quigon nor anyone else disagrees.

What makes you think Obiwan doesn't like Anakin at that point? ...they barely exchange five words the entire movie, Anakin is more or less entirely Quigon's obsession.

There were so many people that said what Ando did at the time it was new. Lucas made the Tatooine meeting so fucking awkward. Our biggest source of friendship was ANH 20 yrs before when Qui Gon wasn't even invented yet. Obi leaped at the Trails things cause what padawan doesn't want to be a Knight like yesterday.

Traveller, on 07 March 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 07 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 March 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 06 March 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 March 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

So a question to all the Star Wars experts here -

I have always been puzzled by the Jedi Council assigning Anakin to Obi Wan as a Padawan at the end of the Phantom Menace. I got the impression that Obi Wan did not really like Anakin then, and moreover as a brand new Knight, he did not really have the necessary experience to train a Padawan, especially a special case like Anakin.

Was this ever explained in the old EU?

At that point Obi-Wan, while still very much the personality we knew him as, was MUCH brasher and more impetuous. He would not have wanted to train an apprentice if he'd had his choice...and he wasn't too sure of Anakin. But after Qui-Gon died, I think he felt beholden to his old master to train the boy in his stead. So duty overruled any of his own feelings on the matter, which he would have shoved aside. It seemed like Yoda and the Council were not too happy to have Obi-Wan train him and pushed for that not to happen, but Obi-Wan stood firm on fulfilling his promise, and the Council buckling. Yoda especially did not agree with the allowance, but the Council overruled him to allow it.

I don't think it was ever explained further than that.

Briar King, on 06 March 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't think it was much expanded on other then in Ep1 with Qui Gon demanding a promise of Obi to train the boy.

I guess I have always felt that Anakin was handled badly by the Jedi.

He was made to feel unwanted by the Council at the end of Phantom Menace, given to a new inexperienced Knight who did not really like him and acted out of obligation, and later his manifesting problems were never taken seriously or addressed.

Tacked onto what Traveler said, there is also the fact that the Emperor was aware of and exploited a Sith vault/Shrine DEEP beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. The ancient Jedi who built the temple there originally did so to try to stifle the dark side well of power by building a temple of light above it. This fact was not apparently noted in the Jedi Archives (as it was a divisive topic amongst the Jedi who built there), and as such only the Sith knew about it. Thus Sidious knew about it.

So the clouding of the Jedi minds during the Clone Wars with regards to major decisions and using their own fear ( a tenet that was against their religion ) against them was wielded by Sidious using the well of Sith power beneath the Jedi's own house as a source to do that and keep it happening over all those years. Their choices were not what they might have been otherwise. This is canon. Sidious and Dooku visit the shrine in THE CLONE WARS.

I personally love the location of the secret Sith shrine, as it can be used to explain a lot about the behaviour of the Jedi council through the CWs, plus how Sidious managed to stay hidden for so long.

The original RotJ script had the showdown with Luke and the Emperor there before they relocated that scene to the Death Star.

Also, in scenes that never made it to the screen, both Obi Wan and Yoda (ghosts) were helping Luke by 'clouding' the mind of Palpatine. One line survives, when Vader reports Luke's location on Endor... 'Strange that I have not.'
The same clouding of the Jedi minds by Palps was happening all through the Cws, using power from the temple below. Might help explain the daft decisions made regarding Anakin.

Has anyone seen the (apparently) unused scripts from ep3 where after killing Windu, Palpatine reveals to Anakin that it was him that manipulated the Force to create him? Thus giving Anakin real proof that he could use the force to create life, and therefore teach him how to save Padme? I've seen it referred to online but I don't know the authenticity of that particular statement.

QuickTidal, on 07 March 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

Traveller, on 07 March 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

Has anyone seen the (apparently) unused scripts from ep3 where after killing Windu, Palpatine reveals to Anakin that it was him that manipulated the Force to create him? Thus giving Anakin real proof that he could use thr force to create life, and therefore teach him how to save Padme? I've seen it referred to online but I don't know the authenticity of that particular myth.

This is still quasi-canon VIA the TARKIN book...in which it is obliquely referenced (Sidious and Plagueis manipulating the Force and the force lashing back....with Anakin's immaculate creation) enough to infer the story is canon.

So this Sith temple - I remember it being used to explain how Yoda and Co. never detected all the Sith activity - it was not retconned in through the EU so as to explain the horrible Jedi logic in the movies? It was canon from the original trilogy?

[Traveller]

I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure the concept was around from back when Lucas and Kasdan were writing RotJ.

It seems to me, from the books I have, that even though some ideas don't make it onscreen, the writers still have these ideas in their heads when they're writing later material that does end up on screen - and sometimes this material doesn't always convey the original ideas well enough.

Similarly, Dave Filoni, when writing Rebels, has a plan/story of what happened to certain characters between CWs and Rebels to draw on, even if the viewers haven't actually seen it.

Based on this, my guess is that the concept of the Sith temple was in mind when writing the prequels, and does explain the Jedi's loss of vision through the CWs (there are so many occasions during CWs and the prequels where something fairly obvious eludes them, and they appear puzzled as to why they missed it) even if it didn't make it to screen.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 08 March 2017 - 07:58 AM

[Silencer]

I never took it to be a case of Obi Wan disliking Anakin - he just didn't agree with Qui Gon ("the boy is dangerous - they all sense it, why can't you? ") that Anakin was the chosen one or in need of training. Plus the whole being replaced thing.

Most likely people get the sense of personal dislike from two things - their almost total lack of interaction (because honestly, who takes a child that got picked up randomly seriously), and the line about "why do I sense that we've picked up yet another worthless lifeform" or whatever it was. That's before he meets Ani, though.

And the Council, clouded judgement or not, have great reasons to let Obi Wan train him - the man just bested a Sith, despite said Sith defeating a Master himself, plus it was Qui God's dying wish. Now, a rebel he may have been, but the man was proven correct in his assertion that the Sith had returned, when no-one else thought it was possible, and was still a great jedi overall. So honouring his final request was not exactly much of a stretch with those factors.

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 08 March 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

So this Sith temple - I remember it being used to explain how Yoda and Co. never detected all the Sith activity - it was not retconned in through the EU so as to explain the horrible Jedi logic in the movies? It was canon from the original trilogy?

There is an episode of THE CLONE WARS where Sidious and Dooku visit the Sith Shrine, and since TCW is Canon, so is the Shrine.

[QuickTidal]

News today is that Tatooine, Endor, and Mustafar will all be featured in THE LAST JEDI.

Vader's Castle is likely to be the Mustafar location...Ren will probably go there.