[Iamme]

Perhaps we should be looking for a man who hides his hands...

[nacht]

Quote

from Dust of Dreams. Ruthan Gudd reminiscing about Draconus.

. ‘It’s better this way, Draconus.’ ‘This is Kallor’s empire, friend. Will you not reconsider?’

Friend, not son....

[worry]

Well that's a sour outlook on parent-child relationships.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

"Father?"
"What, son?"
"I want to kill you."

[IgnatiusKruppe]

The TTT queen they're talking about is the one who Draconus had just dragged Feren to in order to get that sweet ultrasound.
Who she actually is, that's another matter

[IgnatiusKruppe]

Alas also interesting, when Arathan is dreaming about Olar Ethil pumping out babies and letting them drown in the dream so that mothers can put themIn their tummies in the real world, Arathan sees one woman leave before she gets her baby who was trashing in ice,and he "knows" she is going to the sea, and then he notices that there's Draconus watching her.
IMO that's Arathans mom. Going to the sea

And sorry if my post about the TTT queen being the ultrasound tech was stating the obvious, but the quotes above seemed to indicate people were only thinking she was mentioned once.. And Feren later thinks about being touched by a dead Thel Akai.
I've always thought Killy was Iccys mom 100%? He usually acts jhaggy but when he gets into that physical rage, that's pure Killy.
She is the dictionary definition of overgrown and hag.
I love that the word Dragon is going to come fom Draconus, not the other way around. Great great trope twist!

[nacht]

IgnatiusKruppe, on 18 December 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Alas also interesting, when Arathan is dreaming about Olar Ethil pumping out babies and letting them drown in the dream so that mothers can put themIn their tummies in the real world, Arathan sees one woman leave before she gets her baby who was trashing in ice,and he "knows" she is going to the sea, and then he notices that there's Draconus watching her.
IMO that's Arathans mom. Going to the sea

And sorry if my post about the TTT queen being the ultrasound tech was stating the obvious, but the quotes above seemed to indicate people were only thinking she was mentioned once.. And Feren later thinks about being touched by a dead Thel Akai.
I've always thought Killy was Iccys mom 100%? He usually acts jhaggy but when he gets into that physical rage, that's pure Killy.
She is the dictionary definition of overgrown and hag.
I love that the word Dragon is going to come fom Draconus, not the other way around. Great great trope twist!

Quote

But one woman remained, and the water before her was clear – no corpses in sight. She stared down into it, and he heard her singing in a soft voice. He could not understand the words, only the heartbreak in them. When she turned away and walked, he knew it was to the sea. She was going away and she was never returning to this place, and so she did not see the last boy rise up, still thrashing, fighting shards of ice, reaching for a hand that was not there. And upon a stone, overlooking all this, sat his father. Cutting ropes. Into, Arathan surmised, manageable lengths.

The mother would be Nerruse.. maybe

[Zaloopa]

To add more to the QB idea, when Draconus showed up in DoD he tries to contact Quick Ben

Page 956 of my Tor paperback copy of Dust of Dreams:

Quote

The High Mage dripped with sweat. 'Bastard's reaching out to me,' he said, voice grating. 'Do I want a conversation? No, I do not. What's to say?

Then a page later he says:

Quote

Because Draconus changes everything, and I'm the only one who can stand against him. ... All that time inside Dragnipur - it's changed him. He was never so subtle before - imagine, a gentle invitation to converse - does he think we're idiots?

Sorta seems like at least one of QB's souls knew Draconus personally from before. That leaves the question: was Draconus contacting QB personally or was he trying to contact the Bonehunters?

This post has been edited by Zaloopa: 10 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

[Bloody9]

Stalking Stonny, on 04 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

The Eres'al could also be considered an "overgrown hag". And so could my ex wife!



I'll be here all night. Try the veal.

I thought it was obvious Goths + Eres'al = Icarium. Doesn't she say something when she calms him down while he is raging out at the end of RG?


Also, Arathan = Fisher

Arathan + Korya = 1 of QB souls. When Draconus is trying to communicate with QB in TCG, iirc he doesn't know why he is trying to do so. If it was Arathan's soul he would be like oh ya hey dad, but he doesn't seem to know why he wants to talk. Arathan most likely will never see Draconus again so it's likely Draconus will never see his grandazathani. Maybe the kid takes Korya's name for hiding purposes?

[stev]

Just read this whole thread and im kicking myself because i dont have TCG with me to back up my memory but isnt there mention of an Arathan Elient? Specifically one of three who are chained! right around the tome silchas and tulas meet up?

[nacht]

stev, on 01 April 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Just read this whole thread and im kicking myself because i dont have TCG with me to back up my memory but isnt there mention of an Arathan Elient? Specifically one of three who are chained! right around the tome silchas and tulas meet up?

Ok, that was exciting. :-) though short lived.

The Dragon storm consisted of

Tulas, Silchas,

Eloth. Ampelas. Kalse.

Quote

‘Eloth greets you, betrayers! Telorast Anthras! Kerudas Karosias!’

[stev]

Damn!

[stev]

Thought i was onto something. Nay mind

[nacht]

stev, on 01 April 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Thought i was onto something. Nay mind

Keep mining :-) Never know where SE leaves a stray reference to something deep.

[Nevyn]

I'm on record saying I buy the Arathan = Tayshcrenn theory.

As for the Quick Ben theory, I'm not wild about it (Arathan as yet does not seem in any way a personality match, if nothing else) A relationship with Korya would make sense (I would guess more likely as her a mahybe delivering a QB child who was a soulshift of other souls, and then also having another normal daughter). In other words, not one of the 11 from the desert, but that Ben (who takes them in) was already soulshifted before (like Silverfox). But from the Spar of Andii speech, I would assume the souls in QB to be tiste, and with a relation to MD more so than Draconus. I know some are thinking Arathan is MD's child, but that doesn't seem to fit the timing to me. There is a recency in the Draconus as consort thing that would not seem to fit.

[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 01 April 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

... I know some are thinking Arathan is MD's child, but that doesn't seem to fit the timing to me. There is a recency in the Draconus as consort thing that would not seem to fit.

Based on their relative ages, that would suggest Drac got it on with MD, who spawned Arathan, then Olar Ethil, who spawned Envy/Spite/Malice, and then went back to MD who by then had dropped Arathan on him.
It's not inconceivable, but i tend to agree it seems unlikely.

Arathan isn't described as being physically anything other than Andii, but then again neither are the sisters, so whomever mommy is, she Azathanii and Andii are still on the table.

[Puck]

Abyss, on 17 April 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Arathan isn't described as being physically anything other than Andii, but then again neither are the sisters, so whomever mommy is, she Azathanii and Andii are still on the table.

Well, if one's being nitpicky, it's not really here nor there, but he says himself he does not look andiian.

Quote

[FoD]
[...] Besides, there was little of Tiste blood in him – he had not the fair skin or tall frame, and his eyes, while dark, lacked the mercurial ambivalence of the pure-born. In these details, he was the same as his sisters. Where, then, the blood of their father?

At this point he still thinks Draconus is an Andii and his non-andiian blood has to come from his mom, but since we know Draconus is an Azathanai and thus might as well be responsible for Arathan's non-andiian blood, all bets are off when it comes to his mommy.

This post has been edited by Puck: 17 April 2013 - 07:56 PM

[Abyss]

Puck, on 17 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Abyss, on 17 April 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Arathan isn't described as being physically anything other than Andii, but then again neither are the sisters, so whomever mommy is, she Azathanii and Andii are still on the table.

Well, if one's being nitpicky, it's not really here nor there, but he says himself he does not look andiian.

Quote

[FoD]
[...] Besides, there was little of Tiste blood in him – he had not the fair skin or tall frame, and his eyes, while dark, lacked the mercurial ambivalence of the pure-born. In these details, he was the same as his sisters. Where, then, the blood of their father?

At this point he still thinks Draconus is an Andii and his non-andiian blood has to come from his mom, but since we know Draconus is an Azathanai and thus might as well be responsible for Arathan's non-andiian blood, all bets are off when it comes to his mommy.

Your quote-fu is strong and i stand corrected. The sister comparison would actually argue for his mom being Az'i, assuming Olar really is their mom.

[Sinisdar Toste]

you're all tossing the word andii around here, but i'd like to point out that they are tiste, not andii. andii do not exist until t'riss comes to kharkanas. however, arathan does tell us in his first scene that he looks like his tiste blood is watered down, while draconus' features prove his tiste blood to be pure. kind of ironic, since draconus is azathanai in fact, and only takes on tiste features to live as one of them. the answer to arathan's question, "Where then the blood of my father?" is written all over his non-tiste face.

personally, i think arathan of later ages is just arathan, and is the hand-wrapped sibling of envy who places fanderay's soul into baaljagg. i could definitely see some offspring of he and korya ending up as part of QB though.

[Adeafone delat]

I can see the point that Arathan and korya make QB, but I believe ,as SE mentioned, that we've met QB as Arathan and Korya is QB's sister with whom he has played with dolls. I also am unsure of any relation to bottle but would not be surprised to hear QB has some Eddard Stark besmirch-ing of bottles mother and his grandmother raising him and teaching him the old ways could be important. Not a great theory admittedly but you guys all posted other relevant ones before I joined the site lol