[Fid]

QuickTidal, on 10 August 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 10 August 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

In response to QT, this is not a spoiler but I'll put it in tags anyway

Spoiler

Didn't Rake wield Vengeance before Dragnipur? The sword that Dassem later used and renamed Greif?

Spoiler

Ah, indeed. So that could indeed be it...but was Vengeance imbued with Darkness?

You will find this was discussed recently on the general books topic http://forum.malazan...showtopic=24330

[waylander001]

End of Disc One, on 06 August 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I can understand struggling with this one because really not much is happening. I'm just enjoying seeing the world, and how it defies what we used to think about it.

Pretty much felt this way the whole way through the book - so interesting to see the tiste/Azathanai history and how it was before everything changed.

This post has been edited by waylander001: 10 August 2012 - 05:04 PM

[waylander001]

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Around page 110 now and I have one question:

Spoiler

So are we meant to assume that Sharenas Ankhadum, Infayen Menand and Tathe Lorat...that one of them sleeps with young Osserc to produce the Sisters (Sheltatha Lore. Menandore ect.)? Or am I misreading that?

Spoiler

Yeah just RAFO and you'll be clear by the end - some of the players you mentioned there are their real blood-kin though, like Sharena is Sukul's sister and Tathe Lorat is Sheltatha's Mother.

Absolutely loving the fact though that the Menandore/Sheltath Lore/Sukul Ankhadu thing has been blown out of the water. TBH as soon as i read Pat's spolierfree review I was banking on this being the case (that they were not blood-daughetrs of Scabandari, just Daughters in spirit rather than reality) - and it was confirmed as soon as I read that the three brothers were not actually blood-sons of MD either. There are supposed to be hundreds of thousands of years of history on the line here after all - can't really beleive that any Malazan fans might have a problem with this fact

This post has been edited by waylander001: 10 August 2012 - 05:47 PM

[Aptorian]

Just finished the book. Overall impression, as an entry into the list of Malazan Books, a great book that tells us so many things that we have wanted to know. As a stand alone fantasy book? Overly long, meandering and a bit boring. I think the final judgement of this book will rest upon the completion of the trilogy. As an opening book that sets the stage for the other two books it does a good job of laying the ground work but as a stand alone story it was not very satisfying, lacked any feeling of build up and climax and felt like it was spread to thin. In my opinion.

Spoiler

This is probably, I think, the first book he has written that lacks a convergence. And it sort of hurts the book I think, but seeing as this is a trilogy, it may turns out that this was an investment in a series where the third book is the convergence. Then again, the same was said about The Crippled God and that book I felt was anything but a convergence. It feels like he began a lot of stories in this one, leaving them open for a wrap up in the coming books. The Civil War is beginning, The War on Death is starting, the Hold Warrens are emerging, Dragons are appearing... promising stuff, all though I wonder if anything but the Civil War and the split between the Tiste will get full disclosure in these three books.

In terms of "epicness" I felt the story was lackluster. The Tiste are just yet another flawed civilization. For some reason I had expected them to be... better. More alien. With their own faults sure, but unlike human beings. I would think that creatures that have life spans of up to 2000 years (as stated in the book) would have much more different world views and a stranger culture. Surely something would happen to a people that live for upwards of millenia. A divergence in the population where the elders attain some kind of reverence or something. Where the scope of the peoples ambitions and thinking change as their lives unfold.

Similarly I did not get much of an understanding of their civilizations scope. During the book all you see of Kurald Galain really, is the Citaldel in a city you don't know how big is along with a lot of castles and military outposts. From the map it doesn't look like Kurald Galain is bigger than Denmark or Scandinavia (tiny countries) yet, supposedly, millions and millions of Tiste must have lived in Kurald Galain at this time considering the size of the Tiste armies that have invaded Lether in Midnight Tides, yet their civilization does not feel particularly big, advanced or uplifted. Maybe that's just me not paying enough attention to the details given. I don't know.

I don't like the way that Darkness and Light emerges in this book. It was a nice surprise that the Tiste Andii were once just Tiste and the darkness and light came later, but the way they come to it is... well, it's bumbling into greatness. Light is by chance awarded a fickle priestess, who gives the light to a military commander during a staff meeting? That's not particularly awesome. Darkness unfolding does not happen at some great event with all the Tiste present but is just a random moment where Draconus pops out of Narnia and throws it on the ground in a big confusion and to Mother Darks horror? That's some what of an anti-climax. Now granted that is the way we know Erikson likes to do these things, and we now shit is about to go down as all these new powers emerge but... it felt kind of meh.

My biggest gripe with the story is a personal one. I have a story telling pet peeve. I hate, HATE, when stories are based on omission or misunderstandings. Pretty much this entire conflict is based on the rape of Enesdia(sp?) and the assignment of guilt. Everyone agrees that all these killings and terror is not the work of Urusander, but one done by rebels, but now they need to go fight Urusander anyway? WHY?!? Similarly, Urusander and co just sit around on their asses doing fuck all while reports come in of murder and terror done in their name. They chose to do nothing and don't even send a messenger to Kharkanas to say "Dreadfully sorry about this whole mess but we are innocent, cheerio oh old chap, pip pip." WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!? I can not for the life of me understand how woefully inept the diplomatic channels are in this ancient civilization. Worst of all, why haven't anybody killed Hunn Rhal yet!? Every body seems to recognize that he is a viper plotting against everything yet nobody does anything about it? Really? Why doesn't Urusander have him killed or at least sever his ties to him? I don't get it.

I was indifferent of or out right hated many of the characters he spent so many pages on. I was oddly satisfied when he killed off the Boarderswords. I had feared I would be forced to follow them through 3 books when all I wanted was to be done with them. Harad needs to die in a fire as well but I am sure he has some kind of evolution planned for that one. I certainly hope that fantastic things are in store for all these characters that popped up but went no where. The other side of this coin of course is the tons of named characters we get to meet for this first time or just in a new light. Scabandari seems like he will become a great character. Orfantal is promising. So is Rise Herat, Endest, Osserc, Spinnock, Arathan and many others.

On the other hand there were story sections that really pulled me in. The T'riss parts were great, anything with the Purake brothers, the parts with Envy, Spite and Malice (holy shit those kids are fucked up), Draconus and Arathan, Haut and that Tiste Mhybe. I loved ever page dedicated to the Azathanai and Jaghut. SO MUCH GOOD STUFF. Tons and tons of information given to us there.

I wonder how much attention Hood and the War on Death will get as well as the emrgence of the new gates.

The blurb on the back of the book stated that a threat was rising from the seas. It only arrived on the last page which was something of a bummer really. Are we supposed to believe the dragons are the threat?

EDIT: By the way, am I the only one who sort of likes Olar Ethil now? I loved the part where her and Draconus show affection for one another and he she complains that the Dog runners (Imass?) are making her fat. On the other hand she sort of turned into the scariest creatures in the entire series what with her "eat your head with my fat stomach" bit.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 10 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

[helgi]

Just a short comment regarding size... I don't think the Tiste population at this point in time was huge.

Draconus had gathered "a lot" of Houseblades. The Highborn were afraid he could even rival the legion... and he had 600 Houseblades as far as I know?

I might be misremembering things, but I always felt that the Tiste population was pretty damn small and their armies weren't that large.

[Aptorian]

I can't remember the exact number but I believe that when the battle was done in Midnight Tides prologue there was 400,000 Tiste Edur and some 50-70,000 Tiste Andii left on the battlefield. That's close to half a million in just that Exodus, after they took heavy loses. Then there is Rake's Exodus. And Andarists I presume? Maybe others we don't know of. Then you have to factor in how many Tiste dies during the coming Civil War. I am thinking A LOT. Then consider that the entire population is split in 2 or 3. Many become Liosan. Many become Edur. There must have been millions and millions of Tiste is my impression.

I don't think the Sundering of Emurhlan comes that long after the Civil War. Maybe there is but the way things are escalating in this book I have a feeling that everything went to hell in a handbasket in a matter of years.

[tiam]

Rakes Andii numbers are quite small. Enddest Silann notes that when he came through the gate he had few followers. The Andi in MoonsSpawn is 1400 in MOI (we are told this in a conversation between Rake and Korlat) yet this does not fit in with the TA being the most numerically strong force in Broods legions which is the impression we get. In TCG Twilight sees them in there thousands which as I pointed out at the time isnt consistent. One theory is that the Black Coral event called all Andii to Coral thus bolstering the numbers but this is not mentioned and is simply conjecture to make up the numbers.

Draconus has around 6-700 housblades and this is considered alot but only for a private house. Only MD has more (say 1000) whereas Urusanders Legion was 7000 strong. I see from Apts overall impresions post he felt the Tiste civilisatiomn wasnt epic and I agree. The population of Kurald Galain, the city state, is significantly smaller. No doubt there will be a population explosion soon when the lines are drawn, presumably sometime when Kurald Galain becomes a warren proper rather than a city state.

The MT figures in the prologue have 400 000 TA against 55000 Kell Hunters, with just under a thousand surviving given their isolation by the Edur. 200 000 Edur were brought to battlew with around 18 000 surviving. These are off the top of my head but they seem right. So at this point Urusanders Legion, the most numerically superior force in the book doesnt even meet the depleted numbers of the Edur yet. However we se see that Sandalath dies in the battle so its more likely Ruins exodus was a largely populatory migration rather than an invading army. We have no figures for the peasantry so its possible they are substantial.

In regards to how many Tiste die in the Civil War we have flashbacks of the Hust Legion holding back the Lightwall in a desperate attempt to buy people time. We also have I think an Enddest Sillan flashback or POV moment where he claimed Rake ruled Kharkanas's empty halls and streets suggesting that though peace amongst the Andii (or all Tiste peoples) was won by Rake it was at the cost of alot of lives. Though this may not be the case and the vacating of kharkanas could simply have been a banishing of those who would not follow MD which may have been many, thus the large Kharkanas population may have left to found Saranas.

Alot of questions, inconsistencies with the figures etc. The one thing that might happen is that this is still the Elder unformed Age and the TA are incredibly long lived. So we might have Fall of Light happening 1000 years after FOD yet still having all the same characters thus explaining the boosted population.

This post has been edited by Jean-Claude Van tiam: 11 August 2012 - 09:03 AM

[Ivan Kersovic]

Edit: Oh god accidentally spoiler

Should have read the top. Fixed now I was just responding to the post above. If you must read what I said, click below, but it is some spoilers for the book.

Spoiler

The huge elephant in the room in every Erikson book is the timeline. One thing I find hard to believe is simply the huge amount of timescale involved in the series. When you think about the amount of real world history we have had in the past 6000 years, it's hard to believe that the Malazan world is hundreds of thousands of years old. I have a feeling that the next book won't be a thousand years later- simply because it's impossible for us to imagine the conflict we see now not escalating within a year. We could end up seeing the transformation from Tiste to Andii/Edur/Liosan within a matter of 5 or 6 years, with the civil war's conclusion (Anomander drinking Tiam's blood I assume) and all the rest happening in that time frame.
If all this happens within a generation (and only a few Andii are mentioned as being over a hundred- most of them are within a human lifetime old) then what on earth happened to them in the several hundred thousand years between then and now? The same can be said for the rest of history. It's just a bit silly really- imo Erikson could have easily knocked a zero off the whole timescale and still kept the integrity of the books intact. All this happening thirty thousand years ago instead of three hundred thousand - it's still a mind-numbing amount of time.

Anyway whether you like the epic timescale or not (remember we're talking a third of a million years here) or not, it really shows its weakness when you see how quickly civilisations fall apart/form within a single year or so in this book. It's hard to believe that everything from MD becoming a figure of worship, to the birth of light, war on death and so on all happened within a hundred years, then in the period afterwards (more than 3000 times as long) nothing happened of that sort of significance.

In the main series I got a sense of a series of great events happening over ages. First the birth of Darkness (and MD), the creation of the Andii, then tens of thousands of years later Father Light and the war, and then the creation of Edur etc. We know Rake came first, so I imagined his followers entering the Earth realm a longggg time before Ruin left with his crew and Scabandari. I have the feeling all this massive timeline of events is going to be compressed into a much shorter period. The reason for this is that despite a slightly different feel about them, the Tiste have been portrayed as human, and the plot wouldn't flow if the events didn't happen in a reasonably human way.

This post has been edited by Ivan Kersovic: 11 August 2012 - 02:10 PM

[QuickTidal]

Halfway through...and though I am enjoying it...I am missing the gallows humour of the Malazan soldiery...in fact there seems to be a distinctly serious tone to ALL the proceedings, with very little humour whatsoever.

That's my only complaint so far. It kind of makes the book bleaker than it needs to be.

[Skywalker]

I'm only up to the beginning of Book 4 at this point, but had to get a crazy theory off my chest:

Spoiler

Arathan is Edgewalker

Whaddaya think?

[AnomanderRakeSoD]

Some questions for fellow readers:

Spoiler

I would like to clarify age firstly... how old are the Tiste at the start of FoD? How much older are the Azathanai? How old are the Jaghut and other races relative to the Tiste.... and how old are the big game players. How old is Rake, Draconus or Ruin etc? What about OE or Burn and how old are they compared to K'rul etc.

Do you all think Rake is 100% Tiste?
Which characters do you think are actually Azathanai? Kallor? Burn? OE? Gothos? Mael? K'rul Draconus? Nimander? MD?

[Morgoth]

Ivan Kersovic, on 11 August 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

Edit: Oh god accidentally spoiler

Should have read the top. Fixed now I was just responding to the post above. If you must read what I said, click below, but it is some spoilers for the book.

Spoiler

The huge elephant in the room in every Erikson book is the timeline. One thing I find hard to believe is simply the huge amount of timescale involved in the series. When you think about the amount of real world history we have had in the past 6000 years, it's hard to believe that the Malazan world is hundreds of thousands of years old. I have a feeling that the next book won't be a thousand years later- simply because it's impossible for us to imagine the conflict we see now not escalating within a year. We could end up seeing the transformation from Tiste to Andii/Edur/Liosan within a matter of 5 or 6 years, with the civil war's conclusion (Anomander drinking Tiam's blood I assume) and all the rest happening in that time frame.
If all this happens within a generation (and only a few Andii are mentioned as being over a hundred- most of them are within a human lifetime old) then what on earth happened to them in the several hundred thousand years between then and now? The same can be said for the rest of history. It's just a bit silly really- imo Erikson could have easily knocked a zero off the whole timescale and still kept the integrity of the books intact. All this happening thirty thousand years ago instead of three hundred thousand - it's still a mind-numbing amount of time.

Anyway whether you like the epic timescale or not (remember we're talking a third of a million years here) or not, it really shows its weakness when you see how quickly civilisations fall apart/form within a single year or so in this book. It's hard to believe that everything from MD becoming a figure of worship, to the birth of light, war on death and so on all happened within a hundred years, then in the period afterwards (more than 3000 times as long) nothing happened of that sort of significance.

In the main series I got a sense of a series of great events happening over ages. First the birth of Darkness (and MD), the creation of the Andii, then tens of thousands of years later Father Light and the war, and then the creation of Edur etc. We know Rake came first, so I imagined his followers entering the Earth realm a longggg time before Ruin left with his crew and Scabandari. I have the feeling all this massive timeline of events is going to be compressed into a much shorter period. The reason for this is that despite a slightly different feel about them, the Tiste have been portrayed as human, and the plot wouldn't flow if the events didn't happen in a reasonably human way.

I find the huge history to be believable, and represents an aspect of high magic fantasy that only SE seems to grasp. When individuals can be born with the power of several nuclear bombs society is pretty much bound to collaps again and again.

[Moss]

Spoiler

Am I the only one who is mad at the portrayal of Draconus' daughters? All 3 are purly evil bitches. The part where they try to kill the household of House Dracons really bothered me. I never imagined Spite or Envy that sadistic in the former books. They were selfish, bitchy, but never unnecessarily cruel, which made them sort of likably. Maybe they change in a hundred thousand years, but the point that they're that evil as kids indicates a born in character flaw.

[champ]

Moss, on 13 August 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Spoiler

Am I the only one who is mad at the portrayal of Draconus' daughters? All 3 are purly evil bitches. The part where they try to kill the household of House Dracons really bothered me. I never imagined Spite or Envy that sadistic in the former books. They were selfish, bitchy, but never unnecessarily cruel, which made them sort of likably. Maybe they change in a hundred thousand years, but the point that they're that evil as kids indicates a born in character flaw.

Spoiler

I didn't mind to be fair, I just figured that was down to them being at a young age living with the names their father had given them and them discovering their powers... Arathan saying that names shouldn't be a curse etc.

Though the implied forced beastiality on Arathan was a bit much...

This post has been edited by champ: 13 August 2012 - 12:45 PM

[QuickTidal]

Other than a lack of humour I have one other complaint as I read.

Spoiler

Orfantal (and then subsequently Sukhul Ankadhu) are meant to be kids. I think something in his first or second appearance put Orfantal at around 5 years old (though I could be wrong about that), he is AT LEAST young enough to still be playing with toys, and playing at war with the stable boy (10 at the eldest I think, but that's pushing it) before he leaves his home heading for Karkhanas...and yet once he meets Sukhul (who is either his age or a year older) they begin to converse and for an entire section I was taken out of the narrative by two KIDS speaking like adults, using words, sentence structure and thought processes of people much older. Couple that with the young hostage in the Citadel (Legyl?) in the very next chapter who actually talks and reasons like a child...it was all really weird and like I said took me right out of the narrative. Anyone else?

[Aptorian]

AnomanderRakeSoD, on 12 August 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Some questions for fellow readers:

Spoiler

I would like to clarify age firstly... how old are the Tiste at the start of FoD? How much older are the Azathanai? How old are the Jaghut and other races relative to the Tiste.... and how old are the big game players. How old is Rake, Draconus or Ruin etc? What about OE or Burn and how old are they compared to K'rul etc.

Do you all think Rake is 100% Tiste?
Which characters do you think are actually Azathanai? Kallor? Burn? OE? Gothos? Mael? K'rul Draconus? Nimander? MD?


The time line is not important, etc. and it really is impossible to properly estimate the age of anything because time seems malleable in this era, but according to this book, I'd hazard a guess that the Tiste race is not very old but not a young civilization either. At least 5,000 years old. Perhaps tens of thousands of years old. It's hard to make these estimates because you'll notice that the human civilizations we see go back hundreds of thousands of years yet don't portray qualities any more advanced than our ancient history. The only mentions we get of Tiste ancient history is their river worship and the legend of the first Tiste Heroes who drank the blood of dragons.

The Azathanai it would seem were around before any of the races we have heard of but that is not to say there wasn't anything before them, they are just there, in the now and in the past. For purposes of creating a time line it is probably easier to just say they were always there, sitting in a village waiting for a monkey to come along a worship them.

The Jaghut had time to create a civilization, rise to military, magical and cultural dominance and fall again before the age that we meet them in. How old they really are is hard to say but for all we know they could be as young as the Tiste. All though in the hierarchy of beings they seem to be surpassed only by the Azathanai in terms of knowledge and power.

Same thing with the Thel Akai and Forkrul Assail, all of these races seem young in comparison to the Elder Gods who seem to have made them, but it is impossible to dertermine an exact time line of their emergence.

We know the Dog runners came before the Tiste. And we know they came after the Eres'al peoples. The question is if these ones are proto-imass or if they in fact really are the Imass we know of that underwent the ritual of telann. I find it peculiar that these people are known as dog runners, while we know that the Eres'al also ran with the Deragoth. I wonder where the connection is there. Where we wrong? Were there never more than 7 deragoth and the Deragoth we know are simply ascendant Ay ancestors? Considering that Mappo believes that the Deragoth were created this seems wrong.

As for the ages of the characters, they are as old Erikson needs them to be I think is the only right answer here.

Draconus is an Azathanai so he is ageless.

Mother Dark is a mortal Tiste that has ascended.

I suspect that Burn is an Azathanai and much older than suggested by that house keeper or Olar Ethil but she could also just be an ascendant dog runner. Or maybe she is something else.
Maybe she is from before even the Azathanai. Mother Dark has become an Azathanai so the term is fluent.

I think Gothos is just a powerful Jaghut otherwise the other Jaghut would know I think. Maybe he is the first one.

If Kallor really is the High King mentioned in the book I have no idea what the guy is. From the notion that he was cursed never to ascend you have to assume that he is not a god or Azathanai in the first place. But what is he then? A post-human from some kind of Atlantean human civilization that disappeared before the rise of the Elder Races and then re-appeared again when the Elder Races fell? I really have no clue.

Mael, T'riss, Ardatha, Olar Ethi, K'rull are all Azathanai it would seem but it is pointless to try and guess their age or origin. They just exist.

Moss, on 13 August 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Spoiler

Am I the only one who is mad at the portrayal of Draconus' daughters? All 3 are purly evil bitches. The part where they try to kill the household of House Dracons really bothered me. I never imagined Spite or Envy that sadistic in the former books. They were selfish, bitchy, but never unnecessarily cruel, which made them sort of likably. Maybe they change in a hundred thousand years, but the point that they're that evil as kids indicates a born in character flaw.

I loved their portrayal. Consider that they are born with great power, cursed by their own parents, given no guidance or education it would seem and have no authority figures because their father ignores them. They are children with out restriction. Sociopaths with super powers. They are tiny monsters.

I found their killspree hilarious. "Oh no, we sort of accidentally killed our little sister. We'll never get away with this. What do we do? Run away? No lets just KILL EVERYONE WHO COULD EVER TELL ON US!" Brilliant plan.

Spite seems to have grown a concious since these days but this stuff seems right in line with how Envy is portrayed in the later books. Completely self-absorbed with no regard for human life or understanding of right or wrong beyond what interests her. This book has only strengthened my opinion that she is one of the best characters in the book.

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Other than a lack of humour I have one other complaint as I read.

Spoiler

Orfantal (and then subsequently Sukhul Ankadhu) are meant to be kids. I think something in his first or second appearance put Orfantal at around 5 years old (though I could be wrong about that), he is AT LEAST young enough to still be playing with toys, and playing at war with the stable boy (10 at the eldest I think, but that's pushing it) before he leaves his home heading for Karkhanas...and yet once he meets Sukhul (who is either his age or a year older) they begin to converse and for an entire section I was taken out of the narrative by two KIDS speaking like adults, using words, sentence structure and thought processes of people much older. Couple that with the young hostage in the Citadel (Legyl?) in the very next chapter who actually talks and reasons like a child...it was all really weird and like I said took me right out of the narrative. Anyone else?

But this is Eriksons writing we are talking about here. Everyone is a foil for his observations of the world. This is a universe where everyone from soldiers, to dock workers, to dumb oxen has the observational talents of Sherlock Holmes, the analytical skills of Sigmund Freud and Philosophical depth of Plato. Nobody thinks like average human beings in these books. Even a toddler probably spends its time in the Crib contemplating the meaning of its existence, worshipping its own poo and shaking a tiny fist at the elitist wind chimes hanging over its head.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 13 August 2012 - 02:01 PM

[QuickTidal]

Aptorius, on 13 August 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Spoiler

But this is Eriksons writing we are talking about here. Everyone is foil for his observations of the world. This is universe where everyone from soldiers, to dock workers, to fucking oxen has the observational talents of Sherlock Holmes, the analytical skills of Sigmund Freud and Philosophical depth of Plato. Nobody thinks like average human beings in these books. Even a toddler probably spends its time in the Crib contemplating the meaning of its existence, worshipping its own poo and shaking a tiny fist at the elitist wind chimes hanging over its head.

Spoiler

And I'd not have had a problem with it if a kid of a similar age in the VERY NEXT CHAPTER hadn't spoken like a kid. It was incongruous because of that, otherwise I'd have let it slide.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 August 2012 - 01:59 PM

[Aptorian]

Spoiler

Okay, Orfantal and Sukul are actually Dragons. This is the only explanation.Segwaying here, I wonder if Legyl will change her name to Korlat later? Otherwise I am curious where Korlat is at this point in the books

[Morgoth]

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Aptorius, on 13 August 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Spoiler

But this is Eriksons writing we are talking about here. Everyone is foil for his observations of the world. This is universe where everyone from soldiers, to dock workers, to fucking oxen has the observational talents of Sherlock Holmes, the analytical skills of Sigmund Freud and Philosophical depth of Plato. Nobody thinks like average human beings in these books. Even a toddler probably spends its time in the Crib contemplating the meaning of its existence, worshipping its own poo and shaking a tiny fist at the elitist wind chimes hanging over its head.

Spoiler

And I'd not have had a problem with it if a kid of a similar age in the VERY NEXT CHAPTER hadn't spoken like a kid. It was incongruous because of that, otherwise I'd have let it slide.

Remember that this entire story is told by Gallan, who readily admits in the prologue to the use of some artistic flourish.

[blackzoid]

And theres the problem. We might as well not believe a single word about anything cosmological/timeline-wise/character-based in this trilogy. Gallan is SE's get-out. I think there is no point at all in trying to reconcile this trilogy with the 10 book cycle. It exists in an alternate universe. It can be enjoyed for itself (and I did enjoy many parts of it) but don't bother using it's facts to make sense with the 10 book cycle.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 13 August 2012 - 02:59 PM