[Korlat]

Alright, I'm back. And I see there's a case on me. I can understand the reasoning, for sure. But let me explain: the reason I have no money is because I've been spending it on buildings. I realised very early that rather than purchasing every little item I needed through the market, it made more sense to pay 5k dinari for the resource buildings, which give you two of the base good every day. After two days with them, this is obviously superior to buying base goods at say 1500 a pop. So I've been spending all the money I can get my hands on to improve my production facilities. The theory is that later on I can sell some for profit.

Now, I should also point out that having more posts than other people that talk about not having much money is going to be natural for me - as the top poster, I've made more posts, after all! It's only to be expected then, that there is more evidence you can gather. But I've always subscribed to the opinion that in Mafia there really isn't much extra value added by having more evidence to support a theory - what counts is the quality of that evidence. The person you need to lynch might make only one key slip - whereas someone who's mouth is loose (like mine has been in this game) will make plenty.

[Anthras]

Merrid, on 13 April 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

I see there are many wise people on this board, who see a Merrid lynch as a waste.

I too, agree with this assessment.

Nice case on Korlat. One question for Anthras though:

I understand your reasoning that killers could be bad for this game, and I agree somewhat. I don't think they're bad overall, but they are very bad if they are killing blindly. What makes you think Korlat is not on your team? At the very least you could suggest that killers reign themselves in and wait for strong information to come out on thread. For example, "Please, don't kill unless you know they are not on your team, and they appear like they're about to buy a title."

Granted, info that strong may never just pop up on thread, but I would hesitate to lynch someone just because they are a killer. I find it hard to believe that Tapper would allow killing to break his market and hence the game.

I have no idea if Korlat is on my team or not.

I could do that, but I'd still prefer to get rid of one on the chance that they aren't on my team, or that they might kill me even if they are.

It wouldn't break the market, just potentially slow it.

[Atrahal]

Anthras, on 13 April 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

2 finders, probably. One from each team.

No one has actually bought Korlat's faction, right? The only way I'd know is if I'm the finder.

I didn't buy Merrid's, either, but there's no reason for you to believe me.

Yeah, makes sense. Also, I agree, you would have had to do the find on Korlat and then buy Merrid's info to play this lynch like I described above, which seems unlikely, so I'm not really accusing you of doing that. But it did occur to me and so I said it in case someone else hadn't considered it.

[Anthras]

Korlat, on 13 April 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Alright, I'm back. And I see there's a case on me. I can understand the reasoning, for sure. But let me explain: the reason I have no money is because I've been spending it on buildings. I realised very early that rather than purchasing every little item I needed through the market, it made more sense to pay 5k dinari for the resource buildings, which give you two of the base good every day. After two days with them, this is obviously superior to buying base goods at say 1500 a pop. So I've been spending all the money I can get my hands on to improve my production facilities. The theory is that later on I can sell some for profit.

Now, I should also point out that having more posts than other people that talk about not having much money is going to be natural for me - as the top poster, I've made more posts, after all! It's only to be expected then, that there is more evidence you can gather. But I've always subscribed to the opinion that in Mafia there really isn't much extra value added by having more evidence to support a theory - what counts is the quality of that evidence. The person you need to lynch might make only one key slip - whereas someone who's mouth is loose (like mine has been in this game) will make plenty.

Well you did make one key slip, to be fair. The rest made it more concrete.

I'd say that in revealing that you've built a lot of resource production facilities, you dig a secondary hole. By doing this you further yourself from the market. I still think you're a warrior, but even if not, I'd prefer to rid us of someone who is outside the exchange of goods that keeps dinari flowing to everyone.

[Merrid]

Lol, what Anthras is saying is he doesn't want your broke-ass around here.

[Atrahal]

Also, looks like someone just bought info on Korlat...

[Anthras]

Self sufficient people aren't in the interest of the rest of the players That's what I'm saying

[Korlat]

Anthras, on 13 April 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Korlat, on 13 April 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Alright, I'm back. And I see there's a case on me. I can understand the reasoning, for sure. But let me explain: the reason I have no money is because I've been spending it on buildings. I realised very early that rather than purchasing every little item I needed through the market, it made more sense to pay 5k dinari for the resource buildings, which give you two of the base good every day. After two days with them, this is obviously superior to buying base goods at say 1500 a pop. So I've been spending all the money I can get my hands on to improve my production facilities. The theory is that later on I can sell some for profit.

Now, I should also point out that having more posts than other people that talk about not having much money is going to be natural for me - as the top poster, I've made more posts, after all! It's only to be expected then, that there is more evidence you can gather. But I've always subscribed to the opinion that in Mafia there really isn't much extra value added by having more evidence to support a theory - what counts is the quality of that evidence. The person you need to lynch might make only one key slip - whereas someone who's mouth is loose (like mine has been in this game) will make plenty.

Well you did make one key slip, to be fair. The rest made it more concrete.

I'd say that in revealing that you've built a lot of resource production facilities, you dig a secondary hole. By doing this you further yourself from the market. I still think you're a warrior, but even if not, I'd prefer to rid us of someone who is outside the exchange of goods that keeps dinari flowing to everyone.

That's not true at all, and in fact I don't really see how it's possible for you to come to that conclusion. I will in fact be closer to the market, as I'll be providing it with the raw materials that people need. That seems obvious. It feels like you're trying to press an advantage here without necessarily having all of your facts straight.

[Kessobahn]

I'm still not sure whether or not it's in our best interest to lynch anyone. The WC is to try and buy the titles and with less players around that means less money to go around and less goods on the market to be bought. I cannot see the bazaar to find out what is going on until I switch computers in the morning so I cannot say what has went on today so far. If we lynch someone not in our faction then great, but if we lynch someone in it that means one less person to help you buy the title. If it comes down to it i'll vote for Korlat based on the fact that his goals seem self preservation rather than that of his team.If he has "no" money then how can he buy a title, unless he has already bought one which cost him 30000 dinari!

[Anthras]

Oh, my apologies, I misread. I didn't see the part of selling for profit later.

Fair enough. That point is retracted, partially.

But my warrior point still stands.

[Korabas]

It's a decent case. But as I expressed earlier, I have doubts about removing money and resources from the game this early. I need to think on this.

[Tiamatha]

Okay I got sidetracked by the market again. Thanks to whoever put up that silk. Now if anyone wants to put up some grain for 1500 dinari that would be great. But I'm thinking they are using it to make all that liquor I see in the market.

Now the comment by Korlat rings very true to me as I too have been spending myself nearly broke each day. The way that Anthras keeps attacking him makes me think that he either did in fact do a find on Korlat or was someone that purchased the information regarding Korlat and is reacting accourdingly. Now that I'm not as sure they are either a thief or a warrior I'm not sure there is much merit in taking him out without knowing for sure if he is or is not on my side. But I think there is a good possibility that Korlat and Anthras are NOT on the same side so if we somehow get a CF on one it's a strong bet the other is on the other faction.

[Korlat]

Allow me to post a smattering of quotes from other players who have indicated they are somewhat lacking in funds:

Tiamatha, on 11 April 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Is anyone else finding the items in the bazaar being grossly overpriced? There are a few things out there that I'm thinking of buying but I just can't see myself spending the dinari that is being offered.

Barghast, on 11 April 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 11 April 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Is anyone else finding the items in the bazaar being grossly overpriced? There are a few things out there that I'm thinking of buying but I just can't see myself spending the dinari that is being offered.

I do. I mean, really? Is mud and wood that valuable that it is 2000 dinari a pop?

Kessobahn, on 12 April 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 12 April 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Okay looks like there is finally some discussion on treating this like a game of mafia. Will all of peoples efforts going into figuring out the best path for each character and reaquainting yourself with all the various mechanics I don't think we actually have time to get enough discussion to determine the best lynch candidate.

There also has been talk of it also being a good idea not to lynch today either. I'm actually leaning this way myself. With so little information out there other than what people may or may not want on the market but nothing that anyone can really use to nail down someones loyalties we might be faced with a situation where the game doens't truly get started until the next day.

The ultimate goal is to get 5 of the titles for your faction. That is 150,000.00 dinari needed to accomplish this goal. That is a boat load of cash. WIth people also focusing on personal upgrades and such it might be a while before we start seeing these titles disapearing.

I agree with you here. I think it'll take a lot of time to accrue enough dinari to buy one title let alone two, three or four etc. Who would a no lynch benefit the most though?

So I am by no means the only one who is short on cash.

EDIT: X-post with some people who mention that they too do no have large quantities of money at their disposal.

This post has been edited by Korlat: 13 April 2012 - 09:23 PM

[Atrahal]

Korabas, on 13 April 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

It's a decent case. But as I expressed earlier, I have doubts about removing money and resources from the game this early. I need to think on this.

The flip side of this is that if you die, it doesn't matter to you how many goods or resources get produced (aside from your faction still being able to win).

Also, I think something we have all maybe forgotten is that Battle phase is resolved before the lynch. So, theoretically, say Korlat's a warrior, she would still get to attack even if she was lynched. That's kinda scary.

[Anthras]

That conclusion is misguided. I retracted my attack against his independent market thing.

You notice that I made my case before the information on Korlat was bought.

I still stand by his likelihood to be a warrior, based on the slip up of "hard to kill".


My stance right now is that I'd rather lynch Korlat than lynch no one, but I'd rather lynch no one than anyone else.

That can change if someone makes a case, but I don't see that happening. People are afraid to put themselves out there for the exact thing that you just did, Tiam. They're scared to be connected to people, whether or not the connections are true.

[Anthras]

Atrahal, on 13 April 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Korabas, on 13 April 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

It's a decent case. But as I expressed earlier, I have doubts about removing money and resources from the game this early. I need to think on this.

The flip side of this is that if you die, it doesn't matter to you how many goods or resources get produced (aside from your faction still being able to win).

Also, I think something we have all maybe forgotten is that Battle phase is resolved before the lynch. So, theoretically, say Korlat's a warrior, she would still get to attack even if she was lynched. That's kinda scary.

Oh shit.

Hey Korlat... no hard feelings, right? I'm just trying to move the game forward... tired of just talking about the bazaar.

[Anthras]

Now in the same vein of thought in making weak connections via faction, I think Tiam bought the Korlat info, found Korlat was on his team, then decided to lightly defend him.

Hehe

[Korlat]

Kessobahn, on 13 April 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

I'm still not sure whether or not it's in our best interest to lynch anyone. The WC is to try and buy the titles and with less players around that means less money to go around and less goods on the market to be bought. I cannot see the bazaar to find out what is going on until I switch computers in the morning so I cannot say what has went on today so far. If we lynch someone not in our faction then great, but if we lynch someone in it that means one less person to help you buy the title. If it comes down to it i'll vote for Korlat based on the fact that his goals seem self preservation rather than that of his team.If he has "no" money then how can he buy a title, unless he has already bought one which cost him 30000 dinari!

I am trying to keep myself alive, yes. I don't see how that makes me vote-worthy though - one would hope for the sake of everyone enjoying themselves that everyone's role is designed so they can be an asset to their team. This is not a town v. scum game, where RI should consider themselves dispensible. In a faction game, it is almost always the case that a player is worth more to their faction alive than dead.

Also, you raise an interesting point. If the WC is to acquire enough money to buy titles, surely we want to be on the lookout for players with lots of money? After all, these players are the ones likely to affect the outcome of the game the most. Although it is true that lynching them takes money out of the economy, if you can determine that they are not on your team then you'd think they would be the prime targets to look out for.

[Korlat]

Anthras, on 13 April 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 13 April 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Korabas, on 13 April 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

It's a decent case. But as I expressed earlier, I have doubts about removing money and resources from the game this early. I need to think on this.

The flip side of this is that if you die, it doesn't matter to you how many goods or resources get produced (aside from your faction still being able to win).

Also, I think something we have all maybe forgotten is that Battle phase is resolved before the lynch. So, theoretically, say Korlat's a warrior, she would still get to attack even if she was lynched. That's kinda scary.

Oh shit.

Hey Korlat... no hard feelings, right? I'm just trying to move the game forward... tired of just talking about the bazaar.

Unfortunately though, I am not a warrior, and so would not be able to do this.

[Anthras]

Well, I feel it's Korlat or no lynch. I wouldn't feel too bad about a no lynch, really, but I'm keeping my vote on Korlat for now.

Dinner time.