[Barghast]

 Liosan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

 Barghast, on 14 March 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

 Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

Senior Eunuch

I believe this was an equivalent of a Prime Minister.


though the cost he paid is too high for me to consider being tempted.

Naturally, in those days there was great enmity between the Senior Eunuch and the Senior Magistrate. The Senior Magistrate, who's duties involved roaming across the provincial capitals, which each had a fine selection of brothels, could not fathom the sacrifice made by the Senior Eunuch and so scorned him at many a meeting.

Alhtough the Imperial Chronicler Liosan was quite a prolific writer in the Early reign of the benevolent Emperor Kashiwabara, his writings were often full of inaccuracies, reflecting his own view of the court life.

in one his most glaring omissions, he wrote extensivily about the alleged rivalry between the Senior Eunuch and the Senior Magistrate. The fact was, that whilst the two rarely had any topics for common discussion, The Senior Magistrate hasacknowledged the general wisdom of the Seniour Eunuch on several occasions, and was one of those who suggested caution when the allegations of the Seniour Eunuch's disloyalty to the Emperor first arose, advising caution and search for further evidence.

[Atrahal]

G'night all.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1
19 auspicious hours and 52 minutes are left in the day.

21 players are left alive:
Atrahal, Barghast, D’riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Gamelon, Kalse, Karosis, Korvalain, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Ruse Serc, Silanah, Sorrit, Tellan, Tennes

3 votes Fener: Rashan, Korvalain, Barghast
1 vote Rashan: Atrahal
1 vote Karosis: D'riss
1 vote Mockra: Sorrit
1 vote Okaros: Karosis
1 vote Atrahal: Tellan


Players not voting: Emurlahn, Fener, Gamelon, Kalse, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Olar Ethil, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Tennes

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 14 March 2012 - 03:45 AM

[Tellan]

Gonna try and cut this down to the discussion.

Not trying to draw people into a discussion? Does the fact that he poses questions not strike you as looking for responses, then? As I had already stated, I felt that Rashan was "speculating" about things which he has greater knowledge of than the regular player. And as that "speculation" was about recruiters and their types, I surmised that that is the kind of thing that he is. That's my case. That's my discussion.

He asks one question, and it doesn't really seem designed to actually get anyone to answer it. If you can point me to anything that suggests he has knowledge a regular player couldn't have just by reading the OP, please do.

As you can see from my post, you are entirely wrong in your observation. How can a post which not only asks questions, but actually ventures ITS OWN OPINION/BELIEF on the matter contribute nothing? You're reaching, my friend.

Asking vague questions is an easy way to look like contribution. Your opinion on the thing with Ruse really isn't content heavy. It assumes a viewpoint from him that is pretty unlikely in the first place and then disagrees with it. You don't really venture much of an opinion on Karosis either. Hey, I vaguely agree with this case for reasons I don't see why. In fact, it seems more like an excuse to hype your own contribution than any sort of engagement with his.

In what sense are my questions vague? If anything, I would call my questions very leading, no? Or, if you still think they're vague, then what exactly would you say to make a question like, 'why does it ping your radar?' less vague. It seems to me a pretty clear question, asking for more reason why he said this, than anything vague. Perhaps you're unaware of what the word 'vague' means, but I take you for a reasonably intelligent person, so I reckon you're just reaching again.

They don't add anything. It's just like saying "Go on". If he thinks someone is scummy wouldn't he elaborate? if you think he's coasting, wouldn't it be better to wait and observe?

And if you read a little better, you'll see that I have ventured no opinion whatsoever on Karosis...as it was the case on Kalse that I was nodding in the general direction of

If you're allowed to call it the Karosis case I'm allowed to use Karosis to refer to his case too

You're right here though, slipped my mind that you'd used the phrase non-typically.

Though you still don't address my actual point which is that you really don't venture anything on it.


Fuck, I can't believe I'm pursuing a case I myself made! How stupid of me! You're absolutely right, I should just completely forget I ever said anything. <-- This sentence is supposed to be in sarcasm italics

The only one who seems to be over-reacting to it is you, not Rashan, which is interesting in itself.

What exactly was Rashan meant to say? He explained his side of things already. You were asking him to do what? Say it again but louder?

Also, I am attacking you, not defending him. My opinion on him is simple - I think the case is a bit lacking. Sadly, I also think the way you pushed it is scummy, leading me to call you on that. That is a reaction to your actions, not his. You'll note that initially there was no such reaction to the case, just a stating of my opinion. It is when you started acting in a manner I found scummy itself I got more involved.

I don't know what Rashan was meant to say, I don't put statements out there for people to respond in an exact way. But then you seem to know exactly how Rashan is meant to respond.

And the extent to which I've "pushed" this case is nothing compared to the extent you've brought it back to the fore. I'd venture to suggest that at least 50% of my posts in regard to it now are actually simply in response to you, if not more.

Disagree with the second paragraph. You've dragged it just as much as I by claiming I'm defending it every time I'm simply attacking you. I found you scummy for the way you went about putting your case forward, so there's not much I could do about seeming like defending Rashan - you keep bringing it up when I'm more interested in your actions than his.

A stretch to criticize Okaros imo. Okaros comes on, and comments in fair detail on a case, even if some of the post is fairly well-covered ground (the stuff about day one). Sure he doesn't make his own case. That doesn't equal non contribution. Okaros' evaluation in considerably more in depth than some of the earlier "Hey, I agree that Rashan looks a bit scummy" stuff, which makes this criticism on him just seem OMGUS. Karosis goes on to decide this post is outright scummy.

I'll criticise who I feel like, thanks. Just as people are free to agree or disagree, and I in turn am free to agree or disagree with them. Wait, you've played this game before, right? And, by the way, a long paragraph does not equal more contribution. Just like posting loads of quotes, most with no or little comment, does not necessarily equal contribution.

You do nothing here to actually discuss my comment here.

Your quote comment can be leveled at you just as easily as me.

Are you joking? I directly addressed your comment. I disagreed with your definition of what contribution amounts to, and I ventured my own opinion about how to read what I posted with regard to Okaros.

The important part of my comment was that I thought you were stretching. Rather than justifying your opinion you just say that you're free to go for anyone you like. You are, but that doesn't mean people won't call you on it when it's odd - for example when you attack something non contribution but ignore posts with far less contribution. You do nothing to address the actual issue I take, which is the stretching and OMGUS. The only thing that really comes close to this is dismissing it as just being a long paragraph. But he gives several opinions no? More than say "hey, I agree with you...that's all"

1) My 'fight' comment wasn't about him not arguing against the case, it was in response to that particular comment he made, which made it sound like he couldn't care less. As it is, Rashan has posted well since. 2) I will always play up my own contribution, because I am awesome. 3) People agreeing with me....maybe because they see some merit to it? 4) And you're right, it's not unbelievable that you simply disagree with the case. But you make it sound as if no one has made positive sounds about the case, which is untrue, and that I've somehow flung shit at whoever's disagreed. Fact is, you're the only one flailing around trying to make absolutely every one of my posts look scummy - poor play, in my opinion.

As I already said, you're free to believe what you want, just as I am. I'll back down if/when I'm contradicted by something irrefutable, or if something stronger comes up. But until that point....

1. Isn't that the same thing? He sounded resigned, you told him to fight more, he'd pretty much said as much as possible against your accusations. Having said that, I do agree that the level of resignation when so early and so few votes is strange.
2. ...
3. Yeah, but to someone who thinks the case is weak it looks a bit odd when a bunch of people jump on a weak case going "Yeah, I was totally thinking this". On a related note, do you not think it odd no one else mentioned it all considering that as soon as you posted it at least one person (Serc?) said he had already noticed that.
4. As for flinging shit at whoever's disagreed, you pretty much have. Posts accusing me and barghast of defending Rashan for not agreeing, criticism of Okaros for non contribution when he contributed a lot more than others who coincidentally happened to agree with you where he didn't...


1) No, it isn't the same thing. At that point, from that post, it looked like he wouldn't be bothered anymore. Which turned out not to be the case (I'd like to think as a direct result of my post ), which is a good thing.
2) Yep.
3) And you don't think it looks odd that you've pushed your own response to this extent? On that related note, I guess I'm just more forward than other people
4) Of course I will try and find things to make my Rashan case stronger if I believe in it. Doesn't mean anyone else has to agree. As for Okaros, if you look back, I'm hardly the only one who had that reaction to Okaros' post.

1. At that point there wasn't really more he could say...I guess you could argue that you wanted him to be prepared to fight in the future against further stuff...
3. I don't like how you played...There are still things I think you haven't explained satisfactorily and am quite happy to push until either your response satisfies my suspicions or it is obvious that, due to differing interpretations of events, we will simply have to agree to disagree and I will still think you are scummy.
4. Whether people agree or not doesn't really affect whether or not how you behave seems scummy or not. As for Okaros, I'm pretty sure I've already mentioned that I also don't think Karosis' case is very good (and if I haven't, I don't).

Edit: formatting

This post has been edited by Tellan: 14 March 2012 - 03:46 AM

[Liosan]

As an interesting aside, the rule of Go-Kashiwabara was also much more lax in the rules imposed upon the use of colour in court documents, a fact which pleased the Senior Court Secretary, Tellan, immensely

edit to add: and which pissed off all the Ministers trying to make sense of the crazy shit they were trying to read.

This post has been edited by Liosan: 14 March 2012 - 03:48 AM

[Tellan]

 Liosan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

edit to add: and which pissed off all the Ministers trying to make sense of the crazy shit they were trying to read.

But look at all the pretty colors

[Liosan]

The Emperor, unsure what to make of the accusations flying across the court, sequestered himself with the three ducal lords for counsel. To each, he asked their views of the allegations heard that day. The Imperial Historian replied thus:

"My liege, the histories teach us that a scoundrel once does not ensure a scoundrel twice. Surely we can keep watch over the Minister of Education, Fener, without the need to debase him without evidence based solely upon his record? Meanwhile, I concur with the rhetoric that the Senior Eunuch Rashan's eagerness to speculate on the nature of the outer factions' methods of lobbying may be indicative of an attempt at hiding his own cronyism. The historical texts of our past struggles teaches us that this behaviour has occurred before, and further his rebuttals to these arguments have been of a heated sort intended to deflect rather a defence upon himself. For these reasons do I suspect him, lord."

Vote Rashan

[Barghast]

The Imperial Chronicler, who assumed that he may claim the lofty title of "Historian" is relying on a fairly weak argument. The accusations of "speculation" that ware continually raised against Rashan fail to sway me. I do not see in the actions before me the malicious intent some of my fellow ministers are eager to assign to Rashan.

[Fener]

Ye gods, what a futile and unproductive pissing match. It's a particularly useless variant of "You said that I said that he said that I said that they said that you said something completely fucking irrelevant!!1!"

And the rainbow thing makes my brain hurt. For that alone, I hate this particular bitch fest.

[Barghast]

perhaps we should lynch you to spare you any further trouble, then?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1
18 auspicious hours and 10 minutes are left in the day.

21 players are left alive:
Atrahal, Barghast, D’riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Gamelon, Kalse, Karosis, Korvalain, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Ruse Serc, Silanah, Sorrit, Tellan, Tennes

3 votes Fener: Rashan, Korvalain, Barghast
2 votes Rashan: Atrahal, Liosan
1 vote Karosis: D'riss
1 vote Mockra: Sorrit
1 vote Okaros: Karosis
1 vote Atrahal: Tellan


Players not voting: Emurlahn, Fener, Gamelon, Kalse, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Olar Ethil, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Tennes

[Fener]

 Barghast, on 14 March 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

perhaps we should lynch you to spare you any further trouble, then?

Perhaps we should lynch you to avoid having to read posts in italics?

[Barghast]

Fener, you are the only one to have challenged my chosen calligraphy style, which has been approved by our glorious emperor.

Should others take umbrage with my selected method of writing, I will be happy to oblige them, if my meagre efforts should be displeasing to my fellow ministers.

[Okaros]

So, Atrahal, you can criticise who you like, but I can't? At the time, there were no decent cases out there. Nothing to comment on, except your desperate grasping.

 Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

 Okaros, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Geez, it's no wonder people are turning up to check in and then leaving again. We're not even halfway through day one and already people are getting jumped on!

On top of that, between Karosis and Atrahal no one can win. If you defend yourself too much that is suspicious, but if you don't defend yourself at all you're also suspicious!

Day one cases are a crapshoot, and I don't blame Rashan for his resignation. It's pretty much impossible to against a day one case because anything you do or say will be micro-analysed. Sure, scum can slip up on day one as much as any other day, but it takes the context of the following days to find anything useful.

So with that, I am going to head off to work on my kickass Noh Dancing. I'll be back in time to vote. Try not to get your collective knickers twisted too much.

Pfft. As far as I'm aware, at no point has anyone been accused of being scummy for not defending themselves enough. If people are scared of being jumped on, then they have something to hide. If you are RI, then your job is to ferret out information, you are not supposed to have a self-preservation instinct. You start with no information, and you are not especially useful to the town's cause beyond making up the numbers unless you are making yourself busy on thread. So why aren't you even trying, Okaros?


Here is an example of the sort of player that I was saying we should be looking for back at the beginning of the day. This is such a blatant exhibition of the cancerous attitude that so often makes Day 1 useless. The more we allow players to get away with flaunting points of view like this, the more it will happen and you'll end up with Day 1s with no cases and no lynch. Might as well just start from Day 2, huh? The game has a fixed starting point and the onus is on you to play from that starting point, not from whenever you feel like the game is worth playing from. And if you're not doing that, the onus should be on the rest of us to force you to.

Much as I was starting to grow attached to the case on Kalse, I cannot allow this to stand. Yes, I'm switching vote again, make of that what you will, but I'm sick and tired of this sort of thinking and I feel I have to make a point. What would a scum player like more than to drift to Day 2 without anyone giving them any heat? And what is Okaros trying to do if not exactly that?

Remove Vote

Vote Okaros

Really? "a blatant exhibition of the cancerous attitude"? "flaunting points of view"? "I can't allow this to stand"? And you're going to force me to participate? This post is disgusting. You are using ridiculous and overblown language in an attempt to influence people. Did I say I wanted the day to go by without a lynch? I specifically said that things discovered on day one can lead to discoveries further on. But to pretend that day one cases will lead to anything other than a lynched townie is rubbish, and pretending otherwise is misleading.

I dislike your constant vote changing, and your overreaction to my post. Your comment that you are goin to force me to contribute revolts me, and I think you are stupid if you think I'm trying not to garner any heat. Why would I not just check in and leave if I was trying to drift?

So, at the risk of sounding OMGUS,

Vote Karosis.

Finally, does anyone else find Liosan's posts a little strange? That was some epically long summarising going on.

[D'riss]

Ok just got back and reading up.

[D'riss]

 Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

Gonna try and cut this down to the discussion.

Not trying to draw people into a discussion? Does the fact that he poses questions not strike you as looking for responses, then? As I had already stated, I felt that Rashan was "speculating" about things which he has greater knowledge of than the regular player. And as that "speculation" was about recruiters and their types, I surmised that that is the kind of thing that he is. That's my case. That's my discussion.

He asks one question, and it doesn't really seem designed to actually get anyone to answer it. If you can point me to anything that suggests he has knowledge a regular player couldn't have just by reading the OP, please do.

As you can see from my post, you are entirely wrong in your observation. How can a post which not only asks questions, but actually ventures ITS OWN OPINION/BELIEF on the matter contribute nothing? You're reaching, my friend.

Asking vague questions is an easy way to look like contribution. Your opinion on the thing with Ruse really isn't content heavy. It assumes a viewpoint from him that is pretty unlikely in the first place and then disagrees with it. You don't really venture much of an opinion on Karosis either. Hey, I vaguely agree with this case for reasons I don't see why. In fact, it seems more like an excuse to hype your own contribution than any sort of engagement with his.

In what sense are my questions vague? If anything, I would call my questions very leading, no? Or, if you still think they're vague, then what exactly would you say to make a question like, 'why does it ping your radar?' less vague. It seems to me a pretty clear question, asking for more reason why he said this, than anything vague. Perhaps you're unaware of what the word 'vague' means, but I take you for a reasonably intelligent person, so I reckon you're just reaching again.

They don't add anything. It's just like saying "Go on". If he thinks someone is scummy wouldn't he elaborate? if you think he's coasting, wouldn't it be better to wait and observe?

And if you read a little better, you'll see that I have ventured no opinion whatsoever on Karosis...as it was the case on Kalse that I was nodding in the general direction of

If you're allowed to call it the Karosis case I'm allowed to use Karosis to refer to his case too

You're right here though, slipped my mind that you'd used the phrase non-typically.

Though you still don't address my actual point which is that you really don't venture anything on it.


Fuck, I can't believe I'm pursuing a case I myself made! How stupid of me! You're absolutely right, I should just completely forget I ever said anything. <-- This sentence is supposed to be in sarcasm italics

The only one who seems to be over-reacting to it is you, not Rashan, which is interesting in itself.

What exactly was Rashan meant to say? He explained his side of things already. You were asking him to do what? Say it again but louder?

Also, I am attacking you, not defending him. My opinion on him is simple - I think the case is a bit lacking. Sadly, I also think the way you pushed it is scummy, leading me to call you on that. That is a reaction to your actions, not his. You'll note that initially there was no such reaction to the case, just a stating of my opinion. It is when you started acting in a manner I found scummy itself I got more involved.

I don't know what Rashan was meant to say, I don't put statements out there for people to respond in an exact way. But then you seem to know exactly how Rashan is meant to respond.

And the extent to which I've "pushed" this case is nothing compared to the extent you've brought it back to the fore. I'd venture to suggest that at least 50% of my posts in regard to it now are actually simply in response to you, if not more.

Disagree with the second paragraph. You've dragged it just as much as I by claiming I'm defending it every time I'm simply attacking you. I found you scummy for the way you went about putting your case forward, so there's not much I could do about seeming like defending Rashan - you keep bringing it up when I'm more interested in your actions than his.

A stretch to criticize Okaros imo. Okaros comes on, and comments in fair detail on a case, even if some of the post is fairly well-covered ground (the stuff about day one). Sure he doesn't make his own case. That doesn't equal non contribution. Okaros' evaluation in considerably more in depth than some of the earlier "Hey, I agree that Rashan looks a bit scummy" stuff, which makes this criticism on him just seem OMGUS. Karosis goes on to decide this post is outright scummy.

I'll criticise who I feel like, thanks. Just as people are free to agree or disagree, and I in turn am free to agree or disagree with them. Wait, you've played this game before, right? And, by the way, a long paragraph does not equal more contribution. Just like posting loads of quotes, most with no or little comment, does not necessarily equal contribution.

You do nothing here to actually discuss my comment here.

Your quote comment can be leveled at you just as easily as me.

Are you joking? I directly addressed your comment. I disagreed with your definition of what contribution amounts to, and I ventured my own opinion about how to read what I posted with regard to Okaros.

The important part of my comment was that I thought you were stretching. Rather than justifying your opinion you just say that you're free to go for anyone you like. You are, but that doesn't mean people won't call you on it when it's odd - for example when you attack something non contribution but ignore posts with far less contribution. You do nothing to address the actual issue I take, which is the stretching and OMGUS. The only thing that really comes close to this is dismissing it as just being a long paragraph. But he gives several opinions no? More than say "hey, I agree with you...that's all"

1) My 'fight' comment wasn't about him not arguing against the case, it was in response to that particular comment he made, which made it sound like he couldn't care less. As it is, Rashan has posted well since. 2) I will always play up my own contribution, because I am awesome. 3) People agreeing with me....maybe because they see some merit to it? 4) And you're right, it's not unbelievable that you simply disagree with the case. But you make it sound as if no one has made positive sounds about the case, which is untrue, and that I've somehow flung shit at whoever's disagreed. Fact is, you're the only one flailing around trying to make absolutely every one of my posts look scummy - poor play, in my opinion.

As I already said, you're free to believe what you want, just as I am. I'll back down if/when I'm contradicted by something irrefutable, or if something stronger comes up. But until that point....

1. Isn't that the same thing? He sounded resigned, you told him to fight more, he'd pretty much said as much as possible against your accusations. Having said that, I do agree that the level of resignation when so early and so few votes is strange.
2. ...
3. Yeah, but to someone who thinks the case is weak it looks a bit odd when a bunch of people jump on a weak case going "Yeah, I was totally thinking this". On a related note, do you not think it odd no one else mentioned it all considering that as soon as you posted it at least one person (Serc?) said he had already noticed that.
4. As for flinging shit at whoever's disagreed, you pretty much have. Posts accusing me and barghast of defending Rashan for not agreeing, criticism of Okaros for non contribution when he contributed a lot more than others who coincidentally happened to agree with you where he didn't...


1) No, it isn't the same thing. At that point, from that post, it looked like he wouldn't be bothered anymore. Which turned out not to be the case (I'd like to think as a direct result of my post ), which is a good thing.
2) Yep.
3) And you don't think it looks odd that you've pushed your own response to this extent? On that related note, I guess I'm just more forward than other people
4) Of course I will try and find things to make my Rashan case stronger if I believe in it. Doesn't mean anyone else has to agree. As for Okaros, if you look back, I'm hardly the only one who had that reaction to Okaros' post.

1. At that point there wasn't really more he could say...I guess you could argue that you wanted him to be prepared to fight in the future against further stuff...
3. I don't like how you played...There are still things I think you haven't explained satisfactorily and am quite happy to push until either your response satisfies my suspicions or it is obvious that, due to differing interpretations of events, we will simply have to agree to disagree and I will still think you are scummy.
4. Whether people agree or not doesn't really affect whether or not how you behave seems scummy or not. As for Okaros, I'm pretty sure I've already mentioned that I also don't think Karosis' case is very good (and if I haven't, I don't).

Edit: formatting

All of the colors are so confusing!

[D'riss]

 Okaros, on 14 March 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

So, Atrahal, you can criticise who you like, but I can't? At the time, there were no decent cases out there. Nothing to comment on, except your desperate grasping.

 Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

 Okaros, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Geez, it's no wonder people are turning up to check in and then leaving again. We're not even halfway through day one and already people are getting jumped on!

On top of that, between Karosis and Atrahal no one can win. If you defend yourself too much that is suspicious, but if you don't defend yourself at all you're also suspicious!

Day one cases are a crapshoot, and I don't blame Rashan for his resignation. It's pretty much impossible to against a day one case because anything you do or say will be micro-analysed. Sure, scum can slip up on day one as much as any other day, but it takes the context of the following days to find anything useful.

So with that, I am going to head off to work on my kickass Noh Dancing. I'll be back in time to vote. Try not to get your collective knickers twisted too much.

Pfft. As far as I'm aware, at no point has anyone been accused of being scummy for not defending themselves enough. If people are scared of being jumped on, then they have something to hide. If you are RI, then your job is to ferret out information, you are not supposed to have a self-preservation instinct. You start with no information, and you are not especially useful to the town's cause beyond making up the numbers unless you are making yourself busy on thread. So why aren't you even trying, Okaros?


Here is an example of the sort of player that I was saying we should be looking for back at the beginning of the day. This is such a blatant exhibition of the cancerous attitude that so often makes Day 1 useless. The more we allow players to get away with flaunting points of view like this, the more it will happen and you'll end up with Day 1s with no cases and no lynch. Might as well just start from Day 2, huh? The game has a fixed starting point and the onus is on you to play from that starting point, not from whenever you feel like the game is worth playing from. And if you're not doing that, the onus should be on the rest of us to force you to.


Much as I was starting to grow attached to the case on Kalse, I cannot allow this to stand. Yes, I'm switching vote again, make of that what you will, but I'm sick and tired of this sort of thinking and I feel I have to make a point. What would a scum player like more than to drift to Day 2 without anyone giving them any heat? And what is Okaros trying to do if not exactly that?

Remove Vote

Vote Okaros

Really? "a blatant exhibition of the cancerous attitude"? "flaunting points of view"? "I can't allow this to stand"? And you're going to force me to participate? This post is disgusting. You are using ridiculous and overblown language in an attempt to influence people. Did I say I wanted the day to go by without a lynch? I specifically said that things discovered on day one can lead to discoveries further on. But to pretend that day one cases will lead to anything other than a lynched townie is rubbish, and pretending otherwise is misleading.

I dislike your constant vote changing, and your overreaction to my post. Your comment that you are goin to force me to contribute revolts me, and I think you are stupid if you think I'm trying not to garner any heat. Why would I not just check in and leave if I was trying to drift?

So, at the risk of sounding OMGUS,

Vote Karosis.

Finally, does anyone else find Liosan's posts a little strange? That was some epically long summarising going on.

OK, while I agree that building a case on someone because he constantly changes votes is weak, I feel like the language Karosis is using against Okaros sounds pretentious, and says remarkably little despite all of the big words. So Okaros said that day 1 lynches are a crapshot. That isn't enough for me to decide he's scummy.

[Olar Ethil]

 Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

 Olar Ethil, on 13 March 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Yes but on day one there is usually scant little and the reasons and cases are almost always bullshit, and wrong. It is not always vocal players that are lynched either, or not ones that were massively vocal before being targeted, sometimes it is for a small exchange, a joke etc. I am not suggesting we should lynch a vocal player but that it seems considering it is day one and people generally don't fully kick into gear at this point that going after someone who is seen as non-commital is at this point more likely to hit a town player. That player hasn't had a massively volume of posts and isn't saying something out there, lets lynch them, just seems strange. Which is the way what you said came across to me, even if you didn't mean it as such. Also, some people generally have less agressive play styles which against more aggressive ones may seem non-commital.

Also by that reasoning it is just as sensible to go after an actual low poster as opposed to a mild one.

The reason I was feeling that the pool of players who are around but not coming to any decisions was a better bet was simply that I tend to find scum have more enthusiasm for at least being part of the game. But of course that doesn't rule out people who are schedulistically challenged, so it's a fair point that the actual low posters are just as much fair game.


I get the impression that you still have the paradigm wrong here. You are still worrying about possibly hitting an inno with a playstyle that fits the profile I'm proposing we target. This is not the right mindset to be in - when we have such a huge majority, you should not be worrying about getting it wrong, but rather thinking about what you could try doing to get it right with the lynch.

It was not so much that, though clearly my point was not well made, as that just going on those criteria alone were counter-productive, because surely the best thing to do is to look at and make cases, which have the added advantage of giving us more to go off once we have information back on them, even if they were crap they usually give us things to explore further and connections to make.

 Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

Here's the post from OE that bothered me:

 Olar Ethil, on 13 March 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

I've also been getting a certain vibe from Rashan, from almost their first post, there is just a scummy feeling to him. As far as discussing mechanics goes though it doesn't seem overly involved though, still, i'll defintly be paying attention there.

 Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

 Kalse, on 13 March 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

 Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

 Rashan, on 13 March 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Well I'm bored. Shall we lynch someone, then?

Oh dear, Fener is in this game. Goodbye, old enemy.

Vote Fener

Ah, good old Fener'eal disease. Not a bad pick.

Personally I want to lynch someone who is trying to keep a low profile. Make a change from the standard "lynch both sides of the first shouting match to appear" paradigm.

underlined made me chuckle/

Hard to lynch a low profiler on day one as its diffucult to determine who hasn't checked in/ the game started at a weird hour for them, between those laying low.

Ah, but there's a difference between people who are not posting much and people who are laying low. I mean, you're not going to lynch someone who has said nothing, but someone who posts but is non-committal...those you can go after.

What Karosis said here also made me uneasy. Going for someone who seems non-committal, not someone who hasn't posted but someone who is not making waves? It is day one. Day one generally does not see very many strong cases and it can be understandable then why people are non-committal, many are even though they vote a certain player on day one. I'm not saying non-commital players do not warrant attention but I think that they become more apparent and more likely to be scum or role later in the game. On day one it can be a combination of not much to comment on, weak cases and time constraints. I think going after that on day one makes it just as likely to hit town.

The first part is so damned noncommittal, but there are quite a few people who have posted like that today. So I'm willing to ignore it, I suppose.

What bothers me more is the strangeness of the last paragraph there. It doesn't make much sense, I could refute all of it if I wasn't so sure someone had done it already. It reads as scum, or someone who doesn't quite know what's going on. Either way I'd prefer them gone, as of right now.

I don't know how it indicates I don't know what is going on, I am trying to say using one criteria and basing a lynch on it is a bad idea, you shouldn't focus on one thing at the risk of missing something else in another bracket.

As for non-commital...well my gut was telling me from pretty much your first post that you were scummy but I wasn't exactly seeing that case as oh so damning, though I still think you are suspicious. Should I vote purely off my gut when there were about 30 hours still to go?

Just up, i've read over the thread, I'm going to put my thoughts on players/cases in another post though otherwise this will become too quotey and long.

[Mockra]

 Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

 Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

Ok caught up. Quite a lot of stuff for day 1.

I am not sure about the Rashan thing the initial case didnt' really strike me as much, but I found the way Tellan has seemed to defend it has made it scummier to me. If someone has a problem with something Rashan has said, then Rashan should explain himself which he did, quite well not sure why Tellan thought he should come along and stick his oar in as well.

What other cases were going? Fener for being Fener or Karosis for changing around votes...Commenting on cases and getting involved in discussion is sort of the point.

 Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

If your inno and got 2 or 3 votes on day 1 and your giving up? I wanna see you fight as well to not be lynched. And Tellan seemed to find that people wanting Rashan to fight is odd? Why is it odd?

Because he couldn't say anything further against the case. The level resignation was a bit weird, but telling him to fight more at a stage where he can't say anything against a case just seems to be encouraging over-reaction, which I find scummy.

 Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

Other thing I found vaguely unsettling was Korvalain and his vote on Fener which he claimed he was doing as he was following his glorious leaders lead. Which was wrong of course, and when called out on it he still continued to happily vote Fener for some other reason. Guess its only vote 2 or something on Fener so wasn't a big deal, however Korvalain had replied to Silanahs initial vote where he voted for Rashan previously and had commented he found Rashan to be suspicous or whatever so I guess he may have just forgotten all of that. . And it seems like such an outlandish slip its no way it was possible.
Still would like to hear from Korvalain anyway just to clear it up.

Looking back, there is a 5 hour gap between Korv quoting Silanah's vote on Rashan and his vote for Fener. He checks and admits the mistake when it's pointed out that Silanah didn't vote Fener. Seems like it could just be a simple bit of forgetfulness. Nothing particularly suspect imo.

Sorry had a busy day and couldn't really post today. Just catching up a litlte.

Well Tellan I guess was its more a pattern of you defending Rashan as it seemed on a few occasions there, then making a case and putting a vote on the person who tried to prod Rashan. While it was the only game in town at the time, I found your efforts made it look worse than it may have been.

As to Korvalain, sure he may have forgotten, but if he was voting because Silanah was voting for that person, then when he found out Silanah was voting for someone else the same someone Korv had said he was a little scummy, then why make up another reason and keep the vote on Fener and not switch? If it was Day 3, I'd find it seriously weird, but since its Day 1 I was almost going to it slide but got a vaguely bad vibe from Korvalain and wanted to put it out there.

[Gamelon]

Back and catching up. I'm not sure if I'll be able to post anything until I've had some sleep.