[champ]

The long wait for aDwD wore me out and when it finally arrived I realised I didn't give a fuck about the story anymore...

[Baco Xtath]

I read the first book when it came out then decided I'd wait for the author to finish before I continued. I decided to go ahead and listen to the audiobooks because my brother read them and kept dropping spoilers and I figured it was about time anyway. I listened to Clash of Kings and made it through 34 hours of Storm of Swords before I got worn out and had to quit. And maybe it's because I listened to it (I fucking hated the narrator) but the story was just too cynical and vulgar for me. I may read on but, yes, I am worn out from listening to it.

[Orlion]

Worn out is not really the word... finding it tedious is probably a better explanation. There's just so much else out there to read and aSoIaF fans are the biggest assholes in history, so I all ready know the main plot twists. You would think they would use a more common sense, "hey, you're reading the books I love? How far are you?" Instead of "have you reached the point where so-and-so bites the dust in such-and-such a manner? Oh, you're not even at that book yet! *titter* silly me!"

[Macros]

Champ has it right.
I read the latest doorstopper a few weeks ago.
Didn't give the slightest bit of a fuck about anyone anymore.
even when someone I used to like copped it, meh, nothing.

Drawn out waits, a story that has meandered too far.
The vulgarity doesn't bother me

But I won't be giving fat george any more of my money

[polishgenius]

Not worn out, no, just inured. It seems to me that by Storm, GRRM had decided that shocking deaths are his signature and would use them even whenever it seemed possible.

It's not a series that strikes me as all that cynical, especially as a fan of Bakker and Abercrombie...

[worry]

Yah, it's not very cynical at all. It has very much the same themes of compassion and empathy that abound in MBotF, but relies even more heavily on the reader to account for them. Very few handy metafictional or audience surrogacy moments. Plus, you know, the waits are irrelevant. These books will outlive us all, as we're just a few more slowly rotting corpses waiting in line for history's ever-starving incinerator to claim us.

[Baco Xtath]

Cynical as in pessimistic. I thought pessimism was one of the more blatant themes in aSoIaF.

[worry]

I dunno...fair enough on your personal reaction, but I found it to be pretty neutral on that front so far, and since it's one long story that hasn't concluded, I'll just have to wait and see if it comes down either way.

[Studlock]

Look back on this, I still think the series up to date is very pessimistic with a touch of nihilism (and not the good kind) though I'll have to wait for it to end to come to a conclusion on that. My main problem at the moment is not the gore or things like that, I've never had problem with that, but the 'tone' of the books. I feel like shit just keeps getting shitter and shitter for no real reason other than being shitty and I find it hard to believe that this will end well . I've read Bakker, and enjoyed it, and I found it a touch more interesting (though the women POV made squint a bit) and I am looking forward to Joe. I really don't have problem with pessimistic themes (Bakker was maybe the worst I've read of that and I still enjoyed it), I myself occasionally dip into those kinds of moods IRL, I just found that some of those moments in ASoIaF to be a bit deus ex machina but in reverse (Is there a term for this?).

I honestly think I am looking for something in this book that simply isn't there and it really isn't the books' fault.

[Tapper]

I don't think ASoIaF is cynical like Abercrombie is cynical (further emphasized by Joe Abercrombie running circles around the concept of fantasy literature, where if anything, imho Martin is seriously trying to deliver a genre-defining series that will forever be raised on a pedestal to be worshipped by critics and fans alike).
Bakker might be a better comparison, although I haven't hardly read anything by Bakker: I gave up after the first book (White Luck warrior? The Judging Eye no, not that one either.Oh well, 1st book of the first trilogy), being quite disgusted by a couple of the things happening and by the god-mode main character.

It seems more to me that maybe Martin lost the plot and is making up for it by just prolonging the struggle for his main protagonists by placing them in positions of weakness, just to force character growth on them through hardship and cruelty.
It is no longer a tale of war and politics and a conflict of personal codes with personal interests, it has just become masochism until one succumbs or gives in to the dark side of the force.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 15 October 2012 - 11:11 AM

[The Retired Bridgeburner]

I'm worn out with ASOIAF but mostly for the reasons Macros said. ADWD was abysmal - I just didn't care any more and I don't like the direction some of my erstwhile favourites went in (Dany in particular.)

I started reading ASOIAF when I was I think 12 or 13 (so ten years ago.) I also picked up Wheel of Time around the same time. For several years Game of Thrones was up there with my favourite books, but I think the splitting of the story between Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons in terms of halving the characters was a drastic mistake. It promotes the "I don't really care about you" feeling.

Martin has suffered with me as in the intervening time between Feast for Crows (came out when I was 16) and Dance with Dragons I discovered much better books - or at least better for me - including Malazan.

Is Martin cynical? Yes, but selectively so. Big dramatic deaths (yawn) and some pretty strong leanings on vulgarity (his sex scenes - forced or otherwise - make me cringe they're so awfully written) - but I feel like the series lost focus. It's sprawled too far with far too much meandering. I also find Martin an overtly sexist writer (sorry, I know it's not necessarily a popular opinion, but it's mine anyway) and as I've moved onto works which handle gender issues better (Erikson needs a medal in this regard) Martin's work has annoyed me more and more.

I feel like I'll probably inevitably read the rest in time, I'm not very good at leaving series part way through. Also, if I stuck through the dross of ADWD, I think I want to know the eventual ending.

[The Retired Bridgeburner]

I'm worn out for the reasons Macros has said already - I don't care about the characters any more and I find Martin's writing more and more annoying as I go on. That said, I've stuck with it thus far (even through the abysmal ADWD) so I'd kind of like to know the eventual ending.

[Lost Marine]

After aDwD I decided I was through with Martin. Between the waits between books while he cashes in on the TV show and what not I just feel like he is dragging the story out to score more cash.

I'm not an entitled fan but I think if you have a series that is even faintly plotted out you shouldn't need five years to write a book that only has half the characters in it and doesn't even advance the plot. Maybe MBotF has spoiled me in terms of a series that obviously had a direction and timeline.

I've gotten to the point of telling people who are thinking about starting the series to not bother until he finishes. I also recollect hearing that he's said if he dies that he wouldn't allow someone else to finish it like Sanderson did for WoT.

I also worry that Rothfuss is going the same direction but at least he's young.

[Abyss]

I don't care too much about the waits between books, but 4 and 5 were imnsho a drop in story qualifty and level of engagement from 1-3, which decreased my overall level of interest.
There's a graph in there somewhere....

[Lost Marine]

Abyss, on 19 November 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

I don't care too much about the waits between books, but 4 and 5 were imnsho a drop in story qualifty and level of engagement from 1-3, which decreased my overall level of interest.
There's a graph in there somewhere....

Is it flatlining like an EKG?

[champ]

negative correlation indeed

[D'iversify]

I've been reading WOT since 2001 and that's gone through some troughs (Crossroads - does anything actually happen?), but I've persevered. I only started reading Martin in 2005, so compared to WOT, I've not had to be as patient. I agree that there have been diminishing returns to a degree but this is largely as Martin has reached the middling stages of the series - early plot-lines have unfolded, run out of steam, many of the dynamics that will move the series towards its climax are still not fully developed. That said, I think what was frustraing about ADWD is that much of it was about the failure of two of the prominent characters to take appropriate action given what was building up around them. Now that their failure has led to things boiling over, they're both at new stages in their development, so things may well pick up again. So yes, the predominance of these characters and their failure to act decisively made the book difficult at times. I think ADWD is the end of the middle, however, and think that events will gather pace in TWOW.

[Werthead]

Lost Marine, on 19 November 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

After aDwD I decided I was through with Martin. Between the waits between books while he cashes in on the TV show and what not I just feel like he is dragging the story out to score more cash.

This would be a legitimate complaint if the series had suddenly ballooned to 15 volumes and Martin was churning them out annually and phoning it in. As it stands, if he wants to 'cash in', then taking 4-6 years between books is the exact wrong way to go about it.

Quote

I'm not an entitled fan but I think if you have a series that is even faintly plotted out you shouldn't need five years to write a book that only has half the characters in it and doesn't even advance the plot. Maybe MBotF has spoiled me in terms of a series that obviously had a direction and timeline.

MALAZAN has a timeline? That's news to everyone (including the authors)!

Quote

I also recollect hearing that he's said if he dies that he wouldn't allow someone else to finish it like Sanderson did for WoT.

No. He's said the exact opposite, but also pointed out that Jordan was in extraordinary circumstances learning that he was going to pass away with two years to do something about it (prepping notes and outlines etc). Martin's said if he was in a similar situation he would likely take similar precautions, but since he has no written, detailed outline of the series if he got hit by a bus without warning we'd all be out of luck.

He has given a very rough outline of the major story beats (but not a detailed breakdown of every character arc and subplot) to the TV show producers, which they can use when/if they overtake him.

[polishgenius]

Werthead, on 22 November 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

MALAZAN has a timeline? That's news to everyone (including the authors)!

Hey, it obviously does, you can't break what isn't there...

[Asharak]

"MALAZAN has a timeline? That's news to everyone (including the authors)!"


I think she/he meant that the Malazan books have clearly been planned out beforehand, unlike ASOIAF, and I certainly agree with that notion.

While obviously Erikson and Esslemont invent a bunch of stuff during the process of writing each installment, each book(with some exceptions) has a clear beginning, middle and end, each story having a climax, and each book having a clear identity of its own.

That’s certainly not the feeling you get with AFFC and ADWD, George R. R. Martin is clearly making it up as he goes along (as he has admitted himself).

The problem being that he doesn’t know how to move the story forward, and he is writing his characters going in circles or being almost in a holding pattern for almost 2000 pages in total now. He is killing the momentum of the series, when it should be moving faster than ever before.

Danrerys has almost gotten to Westeros for 5 books in a row now, The Others have almost started their attack for the fifth book in a row. That’s not what I call good pacing, and its seriously damaging the overall quality of the series.

This post has been edited by Asharak: 05 December 2012 - 09:21 AM