[Terez]

 Tehol the Only, on 18 January 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Why that's great news! I'm even starting to like nynaeve (which is saying something)

If i absolutely have to complain about something

Spoiler

I was hoping for RJ to abandon the Evil-bubbles thing.... It's too random, of little importance and often just plain silly (murderous flying chamber pots... really Robert? REALLY?).
I fear he'll start to use them to resolve situations in some way or something like that, i hope i'm wrong though.

They don't go away—they keep getting worse until the very end—but I don't think they are ever used in the way you fear.

Edit: one of them is used in the last book, but we'll talk about that one when you make it that far.

This post has been edited by Terez: 18 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

[Tehol the Only]

a hundred pages left in LoC

Spoiler

Good book, possibly my favourite. Nice climax, lots of reunions and other interesting stuff.
The ebou dar plotline,though, is just silly. it's the kind of needlessly complicated plot that spoils the fun out of many fantasy books.
Really, how long would it take to egwene to phisically enter tel Aran rhiod, find the bowl (helped by someone else with the need trick) get out, pick the bowl and go back to salidar? Two hours? Maybe less?
No, let's go there by foot(half the trip at least), and randomly ask around for "old stuff in basements to resell". Really, why should we look for it in the dream world when we can spend the next four books in this EPIC quest.
Meh.
I'd also love to know what the hell passed in jordan's mind when he decided things like "hey, this is becoming a great climax in the series, now let's put in a chapter about berelain and Perrin!"

Don't take me wrong, I'm liking the series a lot. Still, things like these spoil a lot of the fun.

Edit: finished

Spoiler

ok, you can't use the need trick twice *rolls eyes* ... still, it would be WAY faster to search the entire city household by household while in tel aran'rhiod.
Awesome final battle, marred only by a couple details:
-it was too damn short : scores of pages are dedicated to the short trip from cairhien to the aes sedai camp , and little more than a dozen to the battle itself.
-much of the suspance was killed by the eighty-so pages of descriptive sequences before the finale.

On to Crown of swords... honestly i'm a little sad knowing that the next 4 books will probably be somewhat less than excellent.

This post has been edited by Tehol the Only: 23 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

[Tehol the Only]

Just finished A Crown of Swords. That was... good! Surprisingly so!
Sure, nothing really groundbreaking happened in this book (with the possible exception of

Spoiler

Fain randomly stabbing Rand

), but the writing itself was WAY better than previous volumes.
-The pace is kinda slow, but steady enough to be enjoyable (while in LoC it went from too slow to too fast in a matter of pages)
-The book is a lot less repetitive than previous installments
-I was under the impression that RJ tried to experiment a bit more with PoVs in this one.
-Finally some serious character developement (that doesn't rely on childish man/women tropes)

Overall this was a VERY pleasant read... if that's what people around the internet mean for "series going downhill", well i hope it keeps sinking. On to Path of Daggers!

[Terez]

I loved TPOD. Judging by your reaction to TFOH, you might find the early chapters with the girls tedious, and Mat is not in the book at all, but the character development for Rand and Egwene is really heavy. Overall, it's a very dark book, and that's part of what I like about it.

[Mikkelinski]

I picked up these books throughout last year, reading the first 9 (aka, finishing Winter's Heart), but after that I just couldn't be bothered to pick up the next book even though I had promised myself to get through the series just for the sake of it. I don't know why I just can't seem to enjoy them because my reading habits seem to match a lot of you guys that post here. Might be I just overloaded by reading the books without taking breaks from the series. The books feel quite more similar to each other compared to say the Malazan books (in my opinion), because I didn't have a problem churning through those. Another reason is just the overall slow-down in the series. Much like I feel with GRRMs last two books (that, while cool, are dragging on and of much lower quality than his previous three) there simply is so little happening. Just looking at what the "gang" accomplished in the first three books and then you see what they actually do in those that follow it just feels slow, and not in a good way, but slow as in soap opera style where you can skip a weeks worth of episodes and find that they are still in the same room talking about the same things (I exaggerate I know). It's not that you have to churn your story / plot onwards at every turn, but there has to be a sense of progression - be it through dialogue, description or action. Malazan I think is a prime example of this where you don't have to have much action taking place to advance your story.

That said, I will be picking up the series for the last few books, I have high hopes for the Sanderson written ones since I enjoyed his Mistborn series, and if he treats the characters well and actually manages to advance the story it could turn out to be worth it.

Also, I fully believe that in a realistic world, every bloody Aes Sedai would wake up with a) their throat cut or a fine collar after their first day as an "advisor" to anyone... At more than one point (in the latter few books) I was just hoping that Rand would shove his sword through Egwene in one of his temper tantrums (it could be blamed on Lews Therin or something I don't care), that would have made things pick up a bit at least.

[Tehol the Only]

Well, reading Wot for its realism is like reading Mbotf for its awesome descriptions of landscapes... it's simply not what it was meant to do.

PoD suffers from a little overdose of descriptions in its first 100 pages (like every other book in the series), but the writing feels on par with that of CoS so i have high expectations from it.
I'm not really finding the girls tedious..... indeed i'm getting convinced that i never really disliked them; what i couldn't stand was the repetitive (childish?) way they were portraited. Nynaeve is still far from being my fav character but now that RJ restrains from reminding me every page that she was a wisdom and blah blah blah *tugs braid*, i find her quite bearable no matter how bitchy she gets.
Also, most characters seem to have (more) beliavable reactions to any given situation of late.

Not really worried about Mat not being in the book [spoiler] i guess he fainted during the invasion and was found by some seanchan guy who saw the ravens on his spear and mistook him for property of the Blood. He could as well be already in the company of his future wife for all i know XD [/spoiler]

[Hocknose]

wow, completely forgot I started this thread :-)

I'm currently 1/3 of the way through Fires of Heaven, have taken my time with the series as there were other things to read, so my idea of getting them all done before the final one came out didn't really pan out!! ha

I'm still enjoying them, there very easy reading. Nynaeve is starting to get annoying, I used to give her the benefit of the doubt but not any longer...how old is she supposed to be 26? 27? she acts like she's 70 or something!! She needs a good slap in the face I reckon!! From another female character of course!! :-) ha ha

[Tehol the Only]

I think Nynaeve is 23-24 but i'm not so sure (and she acts more like a 4 years old if you ask me:) ).

Finished PoD last night

Spoiler

Honestly it wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either. It felt like half book.
Most of the plots were interesting but not really awesome.. my favorite chapters were Egwene's but they lacked a bit of wow-factor.
Perrin's were amusing (Morgase joining him was a nice twist) but Faile's abduction at the end of the book means he'll pass the next few books running around looking for her, a kind of subplot i usually hate, no matter how good is the book.

On the other side, i was completely disappointed with Rand's. The campaign against the Seanchan thoroughly sucked... it's the perfect example of a plot with great potential completely ruined by poor choices in writing. Seriously, what has RJ against battles?
Of a military campaign he'll describe EVERYTHING with an astounding amount of detail... except the damn battles!! Page 520 Huge armies are gathering, it's a very climatic moment and one of the biggest battles in the whole series so far. Page 521 battle is over, nothing to see here, move along. WHYYYYYY? Battles are often the climax in epic fantasy, and thery're the blood of the genre!! How can someone think to write an epic fantasy saga skipping every-single-battle is beyond me(the same happened for Cairhien, and the battles at Illian's frontier at the end of CoS).
So far Falme was the only semi-decently described one, even Dumai wells was sketchy at best!
I am more than willing to put up with all the minor flaws of the series, but this is a HUGE one, for me. Hopefully it won't happen again but it still pissed me off quite a bit.
Sorry for the rant.
The later part with Asha'man desertions and the general aura of madness in the book were good though

Also started Winter's Heart... I really like the chapters with the various Aes Sedai looking for Black Ajah in the tower... and dislike Elayne's attempts at the throne.

[Terez]

RJ often said his depictions of battles/wars were shaped by his military experience. He alludes to that in the very first book:

TEOTW said:

"Battles interest me," Mat said, and Perrin added, "What did he say about them?""Battles don't interest me, Matrim," Tam said. "But I'm sure he will be glad to tell you all about them later..."

He felt that the portrayal of battle in fantasy was generally unrealistic. Battles aren't climaxes; they're blood and death, confusion and privation. That said, this one had a pretty damn good climax IMO...

Spoiler

...when Rand lost his shit with Callandor. And the outcome of the campaign against the Seanchan was realistic: Rand thought he lost, and the Seanchan thought they lost. The outcome was far from clear, and that's often how it is with battles. The action here was mostly psychological, and that's part of why I loved this book so much, especially the way it leads to the Cairhien attack and "A Cup of Sleep". There are also some pretty good hints about what's going on among Rand's untrustworthies, his damane fodder for this campaign. And some great Lews Therin stuff. And a new twist that's easy to miss.

[Tehol the Only]

Yes, i liked the idea behind the campaign and the outcome... what i mean is that i know there has been a big bloody battle only because he told me so, but since he refused to show it i don't feel involved at all, and that's a shame because it could've been a GREAT read.
As it is, it feels like reading a chapter summary, not the book itself. I mean, he could've put in a brief chapter with Cadsuane telling Sorilea what happened in a few pages and the result would've been all but the same.

Spoiler

Think about Cairhien. We see Mat running from the city, we see him joining a legion of Tairens and we cheer for him because he has the ability to save them and influence the outcome of the battle..... we follow him while the Aiel approach, feeling the tension rising, and then, a second before the engagement... the chapter ends.... a few pages later he tells us that he saved everyone and wiped out a few thousands Shaido in the process. wow, that's great Mat... meh
He could've single handedly conquered everything between the Ocean and the spine of the world while riding pips blindfolded with a plump barmaid on his knees and i still wouldn't care, because it's simply not the same without "seeing" it.


Imagine Memories of Ice if SE had skipped the siege of Coral and then included a brief summary of what happened in the dialogues of the next chapter.

As for "battles aren't climaxes" , i must disagree. A battle is the product of weeks or months of manouvering, resolving in a few hours, with the potential to condition the future of the fighting parts for years to come. That's the definition of climax, and the fact that a lot of suffering is involved doesn't change it at all.


Sorry, i appreciate your answer and i really don't mean to sund rude but i still think this is the biggest fault in the series so far.

[Terez]

I guess I feel differently because I don't read the books for battles, and don't consider them to be particularly important to the effect of the story. I generally find reading them pretty boring; people kill, people die. RJ doesn't usually write in terms of the 'badassery' that typically appeals to young male readers. That's not the effect he's going for. Sometimes it happens, but it's not what the story is about, and I'm not sure I would like it if it was. You'll probably love Brandon's books for the same reason I (mostly) hated them.

[Tehol the Only]

Yes, i have very high expectations towards BS books for that very reason... and i do like badassery, although that's not the issue here... i just want to see what happens instead of being told, and it really puzzles me that an author that was almost OCD about describing everything simply removed chunks of the action because he couldn't/didn't want to render them properly.

[acesn8s]

 Briar King, on 07 February 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

If you want good battle description go read Joe Abercrombie! Bernard Cornwell

I honestly don't remember RJ going light on the battle scences but you should be happy with BS 3.

JA is really good, but BC is better.

[Illuyankas]

Check the quote again.

[Tehol the Only]

Abercrombie is in my TRL , although not with a very high priority..

Anyway i think i have emphasized the battle thing a little too much... I don't read a book for the battles, and i'm not asking for an all-battle series... i'd just like RJ to stop skipping some of the most plotwise-important sequences of his books (especially after using scores of pages to describe the most inconsequential things).

[acesn8s]

 Briar King, on 08 February 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

Ah got ya, didnt see that till you said it in chat.

Sorry, I meant to add the obligatory 'fixed", but got distracted.

[braders1234]

 Captain Beardface, on 12 January 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

I made it straight through to Book 7 A Crown of Swords before I needed a break... that was about six months ago and I haven't gone back... I may start up again

Just posted somewhere else, I am just finishing COS and seriously considering a prolonged break. Shame, there is a great story here, just about 100 pages of padding in each book that is strangling my interest a little by little.

[Defiance]

Alrighty. I've taken a month-long break from reading this series and I finally feel like I'm ready to dive back in. Here's to hoping that I can make it through the next five books before I have to take another break. I've heard Crossroads of Twilight is pretty terrible, so I want to make it through that one before I stop again.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Isn't it crazy that everyone kknows those books are horrible (relatively speaking of course) but they continue to slog through them just to get to the end, of which I shall not share my opinion here. Speaks to the power of how good those first 3 or 4 actually were.

[Mikkelinski]

I didn't think particularly much of the first three four either (they were better for sure, but it was nothing impressive. Eye of the World just felt quite generic). I don't know about others, but I started to read the series simply because it was something I felt like I ought to since I was (and still am) a fantasy fan.

It was one of those "must reads" for me. Because of it's popularity within the genre.