[Tsundoku]

Oh FFS now they're trying that "birther" shit on KH:

https://www.news.com...b403fc3186d28b8

[Tsundoku]

Double post.

Any of you stats/polls gurus buy into this "prediction market" thing? Apparently it got Trump's win right as it had him leading on election day 2016 after trailing all the way.

https://www.news.com...c9c93e24c0e7539

[Macros]

I know HD or SlowBen said the change will work by incrementalism, but all I see is further inching (well more like mileing) further into the right and rep death grip on power.

The country just looks fucked

[Mezla PigDog]

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2020 - 08:54 PM, said:

amphibian, on 13 August 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

There are big protests going on in many places. But I don't know that camping outside the white house is going to have as much effect as draining the fed and local police $ in the cities all over. For one thing, Trump doesn't care beyond the optics of being put into a bunker. Another thing is that the Republican Senators and Representatives don't really care either. Like it would take direct violence to them for them to care. Peaceful protest outside a building only works if the people within have a conscience.

Then I'm fairly sure you don't have a republic or any kind of democracy then.

If the people have no strength or voice, then you lost whatever freedom you may have once had. You now live in a tyrannical empire.

Totally agree with Amph. It's the same with the Right in the UK. It used to seem like mainstream political media and rational public opinion had an effect to keep politicians at least outwardly decent. They are so brazen now. It's a mix of social media keeping the masses ill informed and SO much money at the top needing to propagate their own wealth and status. I can't see a way back without us all heading into the abyss first either.

[Macros]

I'm going to sound like Maark here, but the guillotine beckons.


On a slightly related tangent, reading book 3 of Earthsea by Le Guin on my tea breaks at the moment, came across this very relevant passage :


Nature is not unnatural, this is an upsetting of the balance. There is only one creature that can do that, man.
How?
By an unmeasured desire for life.
For life? But it isn't wrong to want to live?
No. But when we crave power over life - endless wealth, unassailable safety, immortality - then desire becomes greed. And if knowledge allies itself to greed then comes evil. Then the balance of the world is swayed, and ruin weighs heavy in the scale.

[Malankazooie]

Anytime you here someone citing stats and percentages, and they say "99.99%", your bullshit meter should be tickling the red. And if it is Trump using that worn out and lazy tactic in his talking points, the needle on your bullshit meter should break through the red and glow radioactive orange.

[Primateus]

Malankazooie, on 14 August 2020 - 05:19 PM, said:

Anytime you here someone citing stats and percentages, and they say "99.99%", your bullshit meter should be tickling the red. And if it is Trump using that worn out and lazy tactic in his talking points, the needle on your bullshit meter should break through the red and glow radioactive orange.

Like when he says "A lot of people are saying this."

Or

"Someone came up to me and said, Mr. Trump, I bla bla bla."

Bullshit.

[Aptorian]

I've been thinking about if trump loses the election. Forget about Trump for a second, how shitty are the GOP going to get?

Even assuming a massive blue wave hits and the Dems win both Congress and Senate, what are the left inheriting?

A worsening Corona virus situation, because the Red States will do as little as possible, and an economy that's in free fall.

To actually get the virus under control, Biden is going to have to use strong arm tactics. Closing down cities, counties or states, sanctioning governors who won't comply, etc. The national guard might be needed.

Meanwhile the GOP will be standing on the sideline blaming the Democrats for not doing enough and at the same time accusing them of starting a fascist communist dictatorship because they're forcing people to not be dicks.

Even if Biden wins the years after are going to be a shit show.

Edit:

Not to mention Trump himself. If he loses he's going to be bitching and moaning, accusing the dems of rigging the election. He'll probably have his own Time slot on Fox or OAN.

If they go after him and his administration legally, he's going to act the martyr. He'll continue to cry foul while he rallies the nut jobs to fight for him.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 14 August 2020 - 06:00 PM

[HoosierDaddy]

Macros, on 14 August 2020 - 06:12 AM, said:

I know HD or SlowBen said the change will work by incrementalism, but all I see is further inching (well more like mileing) further into the right and rep death grip on power.

The country just looks fucked

The problem with incrementalism is that it is the overall trend towards something. It doesn't mean that it doesn't regress from time to time in that inevitable march. Obama used to say, borrowing from Martin Luther King Jr. I believe, "'the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.' Change takes a long time, but it does happen...."

The sad truth of humanity is sometimes we need to be jolted out of our apathy and distracted lives to see the world around us for what it is. And right now in the US so many people are still blinkered or willfully blind to what is going on for some reason or another.

My faith remains in the initial belief that change does happen, and change for the better at that, over the long haul. But, we are regressing right now for sure.

Edit:

I am reminded of when the last time huge, progressive humanitarianism growth, occurred in the western world. After World War I and II. You see in both Europe and the US policies that are meant to build up all of humanity. Safety nets, healthcare for all (we have a terrible version here in Medicaid and Medicare, but it never grew), labor union explosion to collective bargain with the ownership class. And the cause? A hugely regressive period that saw fascism grow and spread throughout the western world. That started and expanded in Post-World War II Europe with a massive recovery project. Front lines and all.

The US came out of it as an economic and military super power. So what change did come in the intervening years during the Depression and fascistic growth was stifled and died down and we have witnessed that last gasp over the past 40 years.

I firmly believe that it will happen again though. History shows that people can only take so much. I just hope it doesn't get too violent.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 14 August 2020 - 05:48 PM

[Malankazooie]

Primateus, on 14 August 2020 - 05:23 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 14 August 2020 - 05:19 PM, said:

Anytime you here someone citing stats and percentages, and they say "99.99%", your bullshit meter should be tickling the red. And if it is Trump using that worn out and lazy tactic in his talking points, the needle on your bullshit meter should break through the red and glow radioactive orange.

Like when he says "A lot of people are saying this."

Or

"Someone came up to me and said, Mr. Trump, I bla bla bla."

Bullshit.

True dat.

Another lie Trump likes to pull from his Matell toy box is: "Don't know the man, never have met him."

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Rick Perlstein: "If you're not writing about the berserk, you're not writing about America"

The historian has completed his epic on the rise of the US right [...]

"Open letter to press. I've given my last interview about the '68 election's lessons for 2020. Given Trump's tweet on postponing, the political media's determination to bound its discussion within the frame of normal politics is downright dangerous, and I won't be complicit."

[...] His tweet, he says, came "from a frustrating interview in which I said over and over again: 'The real thing you need to be talking about as a reporter … is parallels to what was going on in South America in the 1970s and Europe in the 1930s.'"

His point is that when Trump "keeps doing things proven unpopular to all but the fascistically inclined, maybe he sees his audience as the fascistically inclined – those more useful to him for keeping permanent power than mere voters".

[...]

"By talking about how many electoral votes [Trump's] trying to get in the suburbs with his law-and-order appeal, you're kind of doing active harm to contemporary understanding. That sort of consensus frame, that things aren't really as bad as they seem, is a story that gatekeeping media elites tell about the world, that makes them actors in the story, not merely commentators."

[...] "My shorthand is history is process, not parallels. [...] It's kind of a paradox. It's really important to understand history in order to be a better citizen in the present but sometimes history can take you further away from understanding, instead of closer."'
https://www.theguard...xon-republicans

'Shockingly, it appears that trying to kill constituents is bad for your poll numbers if you're an elected official.... Since the Reagan era, corporatist Republicanism has weakened the middle class, increased inequality, gutted regulations on corporations, and, in this century, crashed the economy twice. But because Republicans distract their base with culture-war talk and other forms of lib-owning, none of the harm GOP politicians do to their voters has ever seemed to cause them trouble at the polls...

[...] Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right:

The paradox that most baffles Hochschild is the question of environmental pollution.... A Cajun oil rig engineer named Mike Schaff.... Texas Brine drilled too closely to an oil deposit and the structure ruptured, sucking down forest and causing seismic damage to the homes of 350 nearby residents.... Texas Brine refused to take responsibility for the accident.... Four years later the sinkhole is 750 feet deep at its center and has grown to thirty-five acres. Methane and other gases bubble up periodically. Residents who defied evacuation orders avoided lighting matches....

[Schaff] marched on the statehouse, wrote fifty letters to state and federal officials, granted dozens of interviews to local, national, and foreign press. When state officials claimed they had detected no oil in the bayou, he demanded that the EPA check their work.

But Schaff continued to vote Tea Party down the line. He voted for the very politicians who had abetted Texas Brine at every turn, who opposed environmental regulation of any kind. He voted to 'abolish' the EPA, believing that it 'was grabbing authority and tax money to take on a fictive mission... lessening the impact of global warming'. The violent destruction of everything he held dear was not enough to change his mind.

So you can understand why Republicans thought they could refuse to build public-health infrastructure, ridicule and block mask mandates, and demand the premature reopening of businesses and schools—sure, some folks would die, but GOP politicians won't be blamed, will they? They never are....

But in this case, it's simple: Get the virus and you might die—and the Republican governor doesn't think it's a terrible thing if that happens. GOP politicians have gotten away with so much. Is it surprising that they thought they'd get away with this, too?…'

https://www.bradford...-the-stran.html

'The Country That Was Built to Fall Apart

Why secession, separatism, and disunion are the most American of values.

[...] the disunionist thought of the previous centuries lived on under the surface of American society, in American culture. [...] separatism is the form that our more radical protest movements often take, and it makes me question how united we really are. [...] Going back to the colonial era, American dissidence often takes the form of separatism. I think there's something innately fractious in the American character. Just saying, you know, "This isn't working for me. I want no part of it."

There's a whole idea I didn't really explore in the book, that's the idea of individual secession—people just saying, "I remove myself from politics and American national life."

Like sovereign citizens?

Sure, but also the 70 percent of Americans who don't vote. A tendency to want to remove yourself from an existing political community when it doesn't work for you—I trace that back to the Colonial period, when these early colonists were just constantly fracturing into different townships. Anytime they don't like the decision-making where they're living, they just move to live a different place. I think that's always been our tendency.'

https://slate.com/hu...a-kreitner.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 August 2020 - 05:00 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

amphibian, on 13 August 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

There are big protests going on in many places. But I don't know that camping outside the white house is going to have as much effect as draining the fed and local police $ in the cities all over. For one thing, Trump doesn't care beyond the optics of being put into a bunker. Another thing is that the Republican Senators and Representatives don't really care either. Like it would take direct violence to them for them to care. Peaceful protest outside a building only works if the people within have a conscience.

I was inclined to agree (would Trump give in to an Arab Spring moment? not likely; would he be fine with military police occupation of many parts of the United States? almost certainly; and if he becomes uncomfortable in the White House he'll just flee to his southern palace---'the White House of the South'---or use his authority to invite the National Guard into Washington DC to clear away particular areas for the comfort of Republican politicians and their staff). However this has me reconsidering:

'Americans imagine themselves rugged individualists. A cartoonist did a satire on us showing brawny guys, shirts off, with the logo "Rugged individualism works best when we obey."

In fact, Americans are masochistic sheeple who let the rich and powerful walk all over them and thank them for the privilege. [...]

Macron last December tried to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64. I can't understand why. France has persistently high unemployment as it is.

In response, all hell broke loose. Some 30 unions went on strike, and they supported each other. Trains were interrupted. Trucking was interrupted. Life was interrupted. A million people came out into the streets. But one poll had 61% of the French approving of the strikes. They went on for months, and were very inconvenient.

The French working and middle classes know how to throw a first class fit when the servants of the rich in government come after their lifestyles. They don't always get their way (Macron used a parliamentary maneuver to make some changes in pensions, in late February), but they make damn sure the government knows it can't get away with encroaching on them without a fight.

I actually think that one reason Europe has done much better in tamping down the coronavirus than Trump's America is that the governments and corporations were afraid of a public backlash if the death toll went on rising. So they did their effing jobs.

[...] But in France, it wouldn't have been one union filing a lawsuit (which one of Mitch McConnell's unqualified Republican judges/ideologues will likely slap down). It would have been a massive set of mutually reinforcing strikes.

By feeding us decades of propaganda against unions and "socialism," the American rich have broken the legs of the people, and left them to twitch helplessly as more and more indignities are heaped on them. They've divided us by race (Trump is not alone in this tactic, only the least subtle), they've convinced us to give the super-rich power because they will make us rich too. (How is that working out for [most of] you?).'

https://www.commondr...come-such-wimps

A general strike and mass uprising could substantially impact the overall economy. However, it would almost certainly not extend to areas which heavily support Trump. Unemployed people from red states could be bused in to take over jobs while paramilitary 'law enforcement' keeps the strikes from preventing businesses from operating. Since slavery is legal in prisons, given a little time, Trump's justice department and federal judges could try to force striking workers to work (at something at least) by convicting and enslaving them. And even without those extreme measures, it's not clear that it would have a major effect on the US stock market (in the short term, at least...).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 August 2020 - 08:33 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Trump's assault on the postal service is starting to have major impacts on peoples' lives.

'In Ohio, where mail voting is likely to double, piles of undelivered mail are sitting in a Cleveland distribution facility. In rural Michigan, diabetes medicine that used to arrive in three days now takes almost two weeks. In the Milwaukee area, dozens of trailers filled with packages are left behind every day. In New Glarus, Wis., the owners of the Maple Leaf Cheese and Chocolate Haus are worried their cheese will go bad now that deliveries that used to take two to three days are taking twice that.

[...] Boyle, the Philadelphia congressman, for example, said it's no accident that mail service has become so abysmal in the key Democratic population center in Pennsylvania.'

https://www.nytimes....te-by-mail.html

Many people have been relying on getting regular checks in the mail (less tech-savvy people, including many older people, are reluctant to use electronic transfers) and having groceries and medications delivered at regular intervals. Personally, I rely on regular shipments of tart cherry concentrate to help prevent insomnia (significant melatonin content), and what ordinarily would have arrived on Monday is now indefinitely delayed. I probably have two more weeks worth of emergency stores. I'm hoping Trump has badly miscalculated the looming political fallout....

Mass protests, general strikes, or riots in 'blue' areas might not deter Trump or Republican lawmakers. Repeated or successful assassination attempts might, but there would almost certainly be many more retaliatory strikes against Democratic lawmakers and terrorist attacks---and the far right is much better prepared for (and inclined towards) that sort of escalation. It seems like there would be a strong chance of civil war.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 August 2020 - 09:10 PM

[Malankazooie]

DNC kicking off tonight. Any you pontificating ponderous political peeps gonna turn your squishy sight orbs that way?

Tonight we gonna feel the Bern and hear that mad man go on a Bernie tirade. Bernie bros probably gonna take a break from demanding statues of Abraham Lincoln be pulled down and will "Zoom-bomb" the show as a fun alternative. Wouldn't be surprised if that happens. Should be a hoot and a holler never the less. I'll probably jump in and out during the week's proceedings.

[amphibian]

Nah, too busy figuring out what to do with this 8 ton stone/metal artwork I recently moved to a more eye-pleasing position, which is luckily also a more stable gravitational position.

[Cause]

I got a stimulus check in about July 21st. Week after I filed my taxes for 2019. As people said it was signed by trump.

Today I got a letter from the treasury / IRS a month later. Letter from the whitehouse inside, signed by Trump basically trying to take credit for the cares act and check in a more blatant way. During an election year this reaks of South African vote buying. I mean I knew it was happening but it’s really not subtle.

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 17 August 2020 - 07:27 PM, said:

I got a stimulus check in about July 21st. Week after I filed my taxes for 2019. As people said it was signed by trump.

Today I got a letter from the treasury / IRS a month later. Letter from the whitehouse inside, signed by Trump basically trying to take credit for the cares act and check in a more blatant way. During an election year this reaks of South African vote buying. I mean I knew it was happening but it’s really not subtle.

He just wants his name on everything. It's been his MO for decades now. It's how he props up his little floppy mushroom d___. He has nothing else but his name. So if he can wangle his name onto something to give himself the jollies, he will.

It's no different than in the 90's when a local NYC journalist wanted "access" to him for stories, he learned that he could have that access whenever he wanted provided he referred to Trump as "Billionaire Donald Trump"...at no point in his life/career has Trump actually BEEN a billionaire...but he desired so strongly to be "viewed" as one, that he allowed a goddamn reporter unfettered access to him for a single word use reference.

His name is the same. "Can I get my name on it? Cool, do it."

[Malankazooie]

The Trump branded shower heads are gonna be fire though. Imma buy one and give them out for Christmas.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Michelle Obama with "it is what it is" - quoting Trump's response to the COVID deaths.

Would anyone like some ice for that burn?

[Tsundoku]

Malankazooie, on 18 August 2020 - 05:47 AM, said:

The Trump branded shower heads are gonna be fire though. Imma buy one and give them out for Christmas.

Are they gold?