[Abyss]

Cause, on 19 July 2019 - 08:13 AM, said:

So just make sure I'm following this correctly:

Trump tells 4 black congresswoman to go back to the corrupt and crime rampant countires they came from.
...

Three of them come from the USA.

[worry]

Just for clarification, Omar and Pressley are black, AOC is Puerto Rican, Tlaib is Palestinian. Of course, all that matters is their non-whiteness. Presumably we don't have to go into the race-is-caste stuff here. Suffice to say, Trump hasn't told Nancy Pelosi or Bernie Sanders to go back where they came from, and his audience knew exactly what he meant. There's no wiggle room. He's racist, they're racist, there's zero ambiguity here. Then again, one of the privileges of power -- including whiteness in America -- is you get to redefine things however you want, whenever you want, in order to uphold that power.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

worry, on 19 July 2019 - 07:27 PM, said:

Just for clarification, Omar and Pressley are black, AOC is Puerto Rican, Tlaib is Palestinian. Of course, all that matters is their non-whiteness. Presumably we don't have to go into the race-is-caste stuff here. Suffice to say, Trump hasn't told Nancy Pelosi or Bernie Sanders to go back where they came from, and his audience knew exactly what he meant. There's no wiggle room. He's racist, they're racist, there's zero ambiguity here. Then again, one of the privileges of power -- including whiteness in America -- is you get to redefine things however you want, whenever you want, in order to uphold that power.

'[Pelosi's] mother was born in Campobasso,[7] in South Italy, and her father could trace his Italian ancestry to Genoa, Venice and Abruzzo.' Didn't know that. Seems surprising how many politicians have at least one parent who's an immigrant.

Italy's sort of a mess. He could definitely tell her to go back and fix Italy first...

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 July 2019 - 07:34 PM

[worry]

Anyway, it's sad to me that The Squad is fighting so hard against the traditional American values Republicans strive to maintain, such as

[Tiste Simeon]

BfuckinK, on 19 July 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

I physically shudder having the squad(such a dumb tag) in office past this cycle.

Yes no one wants passionate, competent people who actually care about their jobs! Bring back the super rich old white guys who live to serve themselves and their corporate masters!

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Colbert: 'Of course Trump doesn't like the squad. He's a member of the rival gang,

Spoiler

the Klan

'

[worry]

Yah, obviously I disagree w/ BK on a lot -- including sometimes on matters of race as a very necessary political lens, which I think is a blind spot for a lot of (mostly white) people across the political spectrum and furthers the aims of racial caste beneficiaries -- and I also don't feel any reluctance about calling out racism when I see it. But Gabbard is a PoC. Also, even though she's a weirdo imo, she tends to fall on the moderate liberal side on most issues, and even further left on some social issues (at least now, if not always) than Kamala Harris. So she's not a right wing hack or shield for conservative racism (as far as I can tell at least).

Is BK's view of the Squad, on the other hand, skewed by his admitted reliance on cable news as a predominant source of info? I'd wager so. Fox's grudge is overtly and virulently racist, obviously, but CNN's opposition to them -- framed in the economic/establishment status quo but presenting as 'neutral' -- is still riddled with the various biases that built that status quo, including racism. So of course they present FDR-style governing minus the concentration camps and limiting economic boost programs to white people, as radical -- even if their overt focus is on the economic aspects, the covert implications of all such critiques rely on racialized myths like 'welfare queens' and 'Obama phones' and Protestant Work Ethic (which helps demonize poor white people too).

It's real eaasy to present common sense legislation that the Squad supports as radical when 1) the Overton window is already so far right; 2) we're all immersed in the othering of non-white people, even those of us who reject it consciously; and 3) those non-white people don't pretend race-blindness (in life or in policy) is the cure to our uncomfortable racist past, present, and future -- which in America is pretty radical, I suppose, even though it shouldn't be. That all affects our entire discourse, including but not limited to BK. All mainstream media (from cable news to high school textbooks) ensconced in present-both-sides 'neutrality' instead of determining-the-facts 'objectivity' are complicit. In the extreme (or, sadly, not as extreme as you'd hope), we wind up with this: Link

All of that is to say, what about the Squad's policy positions makes BK or anyone else physically shudder? Are there specific issues? Or do they just get the sense that they're too radical somehow, some way? That's what I'd like to know.

This post has been edited by worry: 19 July 2019 - 09:57 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

worry, on 19 July 2019 - 09:54 PM, said:

Yah, obviously I disagree w/ BK on a lot -- including sometimes on matters of race as a very necessary political lens, which I think is a blind spot for a lot of (mostly white) people across the political spectrum and furthers the aims of racial caste beneficiaries -- and I also don't feel any reluctance about calling out racism when I see it. But Gabbard is a PoC. Also, even though she's a weirdo imo, she tends to fall on the moderate liberal side on most issues, and even further left on some social issues (at least now, if not always) than Kamala Harris. So she's not a right wing hack or shield for conservative racism (as far as I can tell at least).

Is BK's view of the Squad, on the other hand, skewed by his admitted reliance on cable news as a predominant source of info? I'd wager so. Fox's grudge is overtly and virulently racist, obviously, but CNN's opposition to them -- framed in the economic/establishment status quo but presenting as 'neutral' -- is still riddled with the various biases that built that status quo, including racism. So of course they present FDR-style governing minus the concentration camps and limiting economic boost programs to white people, as radical -- even if their overt focus is on the economic aspects, their overt implications rely on racialized myths like 'welfare queens' and 'Obama phones'. It's real eaasy to present common sense legislation that the Squad supports as radical when 1) the Overton window is already so far right; 2) we're all immersed in the othering of non-white people, even those of us who reject it consciously; and 3) those non-white people don't pretend race-blindness (in life or in policy) is the cure to our uncomfortable racist past, present, and future -- which in America is pretty radical, I suppose, even though it shouldn't be. That all affects our entire discourse, including but not limited to BK. All mainstream media (from cable news to high school textbooks) ensconced in give-every-perspective 'neutrality' instead of determining-the-facts 'objectivity' are complicit. In the extreme (or, sadly, not as extreme as you'd hope), we wind up with this: Link

All of that is to say, what about the Squad's policy positions makes BK or anyone else physically shudder? Are there specific issues? Or do they just get the sense that they're too radical somehow, some way? That's what I'd like to know.

It probably makes him shudder because it reminds him of Taylor Swift, and her heinous cultural appropriation of black slang (after all, it is 'a word black people invented'):

https://www.huffpost...4b064d5910ac8b3

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 July 2019 - 09:58 PM

[worry]

All that said: if you (generic ‘you’ all-inclusive) support Trump in 2020, for any reason, you are hitching your wagon to white nationalism, fascism, and anti-minority of all stripes violence and cleansing. No ifs ands or buts. Nobody wants to hear what’s in your heart of hearts. If you’re willing to form a coalition with that ideology, you share it.

[worry]

I’m afraid I don’t get what you mean, AV. I know that was meant as a jokey post, I just don’t know what it has to do with BK. Sorry! It’s clear one of his pet peeves is people putting words in his mouth though (I share that peeve), so I hope that doesn’t tick him off if you were just trying to be light hearted.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

worry, on 19 July 2019 - 10:20 PM, said:

I'm afraid I don't get what you mean, AV. I know that was meant as a jokey post, I just don't know what it has to do with BK. Sorry! It's clear one of his pet peeves is people putting words in his mouth though (I share that peeve), so I hope that doesn't tick him off if you were just trying to be light hearted.

'Taylor Swift and her revolving door of bffs became synonymous with the idea of the squad. That’s fine, that’s great — it’s ultimately a pretty empowering idea that many women are using as a way to define solidarity. But gee, there sure are a lot of articles explaining what #squadgoals are without once acknowledging that “squad” is a black slang word and was originally tied to black solidarity  — par for the course when it comes to the appropriation of AAVE.'

Of course others are harsher.

[worry]

Oh my freaking goodness, I forgot her crew was called the "squad" too. That's all on me and I apologize! Very good joke!

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

The Guardian:

'In a year marked by the ongoing violence toward black bodies, the cultural appropriation of "black cool" seems more blatant and egregious than ever. From declaring that the big booty is in, that white girls too can have Afros [...] The true coup de grâce, however, came with the attempt to explain #SquadGoals [...] The hashtag trend has received a lot of traction due to Taylor Swift and her PR machine regurgitating it over and over on her recent world tour, while trotting out all her pretty friends. [...]The conversation makes a footnote of the 1017 Brick Squad, who have been yelling "SQUUUAD!" since at least 2009, and quickly jumps to Swift "bringing it to the mainstream". (Waka Flocka Flame is a huge live draw and is one of hip-hop's biggest contemporary names.)'

It's the coup de grace of 'cultural genocide'....

https://www.theguard...re-taylor-swift

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 July 2019 - 10:36 PM

[worry]

He's still going strong today, btw.




I'm repeating myself, but he is doing this because he is -- literally, without hyperbole -- trying to get them assassinated.

[worry]

When Buzz Aldrin punched that moon landing skeptic in the face it was a great day for America.

[Aptorian]

BfuckinK, on 19 July 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 19 July 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

Oh yeah, women of color in politics, doing their jobs. The horror, the horror.

Ah ok. So you will fucking pick and choose portions of my post to insert your shitty racist painting of me huh? Find me race bashing them.. Please do!

In this same fucking post(and for the past few months) I have been expressing my growing impression of Tusli Gabbard potentially getting the most powerful chair on the planet. A PoC. Hmm imagine that.

Then explain yourself, BK. You do these couple-of-sentences drive by posts and then just leave us to interpret them. That's not really a productive way of commenting, especially in the DB forum.

And especially when you made a similar cryptic post on the other pages where you stated you agree with some things Ben Carson has said, because again, with out context, only thing I've seen Carson do the past couple of days is the token black guy routine, defending Trump from racist remarks.

So what is it, BK. What is it about the squad that makes you shudder? What is it you find yourself agreeing with Carson on? Give us something to discuss.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 20 July 2019 - 05:07 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

Aptorian, on 20 July 2019 - 05:05 AM, said:

BfuckinK, on 19 July 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 19 July 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

Oh yeah, women of color in politics, doing their jobs. The horror, the horror.

Ah ok. So you will fucking pick and choose portions of my post to insert your shitty racist painting of me huh? Find me race bashing them.. Please do!

In this same fucking post(and for the past few months) I have been expressing my growing impression of Tusli Gabbard potentially getting the most powerful chair on the planet. A PoC. Hmm imagine that.

Then explain yourself, BK. You do these couple-of-sentences drive by posts and then just leave us to interpret them. That's not really a productive way of commenting, especially in the DB forum.

And especially when you made a similar cryptic post on the other pages where you stated you agree with some things Ben Carson has said, because again, with out context, only thing I've seen Carson do the past couple of days is the token black guy routine, defending Trump from racist remarks.

So what is it, BK. What is it about the squad that makes you shudder? What is it you find yourself agreeing with Carson on? Give us something to discuss.

Yep exactly this. He makes a big statement that could VERY easily be interpreted as bordering on racist and then leaves. Then comes back in to play the victim card when someone questions him. Product of the trump era indeed.

[Aptorian]

I don't want to make those kinds of accusations but I reserve the right to get sarcastic when people make absurd statements with no context.

[Gorefest]

Yeah, don't eat broccoli and drive.

[Tsundoku]

...aaaaaaaaand back on topic, how "send her back" sets a bad precedent (or is that "president"? ), as in not only a new low in manners, but where would it end?

https://www.theatlan...forever/594307/

An interesting point in there about supporting foreign actions:

"Trump has falsely accused Omar of supporting al-Qaeda, of betraying her country. But when a foreign power attacked American elections, it was the president who first sought to profit from that attack, and then to obstruct the investigation into it, and finally to offer a vocal defense of the perpetrators."

A few hyperlinks to other articles in there too.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 20 July 2019 - 01:47 PM