[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Text messages suggest that Supreme Court Justice nominee Brett Kavanaugh and members of his team contacted friends from the judge’s college days about Deborah Ramirez’s sexual-misconduct allegations before her story became public in The New Yorker. [...] During Thursday’s public hearing, Kavanaugh said he had first heard Ramirez’s allegations from The New Yorker.'

https://www.thedaily...-story?ref=home

I guess the maximal sentence for perjury of 5 years in prison isn't 5 years per lie?...

[Nevyn]

Not that I'd put lying past him, but you would expect the New Yorker to seek comment from him before publishing. Which would alert him and still be learning from the New Yorker but before publication. Just sayin...

[Brujah]

In perspective, I'm not for a Cavanaugh confirmation. However, I hope nothing comes from an accusation of this specific nature after so many years have passed, as well as the fact that this all supposedly took place with high school kids.

I hope that it requires something far more substantial to waylay someone's career.

[Nevyn]

Brujah, on 02 October 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

In perspective, I'm not for a Cavanaugh confirmation. However, I hope nothing comes from an accusation of this specific nature after so many years have passed, as well as the fact that this all supposedly took place with high school kids.

I hope that it requires something far more substantial to waylay someone's career.

You think an attempted rape as a minor shouldn't disqualify one from being an unremovable lifetime supreme court appointment?

[Slow Ben]

Or lying under oath?

[Brujah]

Of course it should.

I just don't think they have proved that definitively.

@Nevyn

This post has been edited by Brujah: 02 October 2018 - 02:07 AM

[Brujah]

Slow Ben, on 02 October 2018 - 01:55 AM, said:

Or lying under oath?

They can disqualify him or anyone for lying under oath. As I referenced above, I'm not for a Cavanaugh confirmation. Ì have issues with the timing, the age of the accusation, and the ages of the involved at the time of said accusation.

[Nevyn]

Brujah, on 02 October 2018 - 01:55 AM, said:

Of course it should.

I just don't think they have proved that definitively.

@Nevyn

You didn't say you didn't believe. You said it was a long time ago and they were kids.

Also this is not a court. Denying him the seat doesn't put him in prison or even fire him from his current job. Definitive proof should not necessarily be the standard (and is in fact impossible given the constraints on an investigation even if it had proper time and boundaries)

[worry]

Nevyn, on 02 October 2018 - 12:48 AM, said:

Not that I'd put lying past him, but you would expect the New Yorker to seek comment from him before publishing. Which would alert him and still be learning from the New Yorker but before publication. Just sayin...

Don't disagree at all, but I think the issue here would be coordinating stories with then-potential witnesses? I don't know that it would technically be witness tampering in any legal sense, but it does sound like coordination to me. Which is like, in ordinary circumstances, not great but whatever, but as one more unsavory brick in this Great Turd Pyramid it does not look great.

Same with this kind of thing:

Why is he lying, constantly, about things that wouldn't be remotely disqualifying? Well that's not hard to figure out. It's because he's a liar and he has things to hide. His minor lies are meant to prop up the major ones.

[Nevyn]

It is mainly a pr fight so he would coordinate for the same reason he got the 100 signatures.

As to lying or misleading about alcohol, he can't credibly deny the rape or Even the party if there is a decent chance he doesn't remember what he did or potentially even who was there.

However one could argue that lying or misleading is disqualifying in itself. Which would explain why the white house told the fbi not to look into alcohol. They know the story wont hold. Also why Kavanaugh was so evasive. He wanted to not admit anything damaging while not provably committing perjury

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 02 October 2018 - 03:03 AM

[worry]

I agree with that. I guess I would also add that, like Bill Clinton, he's lying because he's caught (imo at least). It's Liar 101 that a big lie gets followed by smaller lies gets followed by petty, ever-more-pointless and absurd lies, all in service of the original big one(s). He doesn't want to face consequences (with his family, for one, in addition to all of the social and political fallouts) so he's lying. This week is kind of a race between the conveniences and the inconveniences generated by those lies.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Perhaps the Trump administration is using Kavanaugh as a trial balloon for the legitimacy of the court---can a nominee get away with lying brazenly? How will people react? If Kavanaugh's been promised a pardon for any potential perjury charges, he may not care... though I guess he can be disbarred (if the ABA isn't too scared of Trump and his other judicial appointees...).

[QuickTidal]

Drunks are liars because the only relationship they remotely care about is the one with the bottle. Everything else is secondary. And to protect that booze relationship they will spout whatever lies necessary. Drunks are liars.

[worry]

Raspberries.

[Nevyn]

worry, on 02 October 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

Raspberries.

So to sum up, he is not self made, never was, borrowed way more than he said, got tons of extra help, still built an empire that totally collapsed, cheated estate taxes to build a little back up and has since been pretending to be a developer when all he does is sell his brand name and star in reality shows.


Pretty amusing when you consider that even if he were a successful businessman, the argument that that is what the country needed in a leader was stupid.

[worry]

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

[Cause]

I thought that trump was not a self made millionaire was pretty much accepted and obvious. If your dad was a billionaire then guess what, you had a pretty good boost in life. Nothing wrong with that but don't lie about it. Though the tax fraud is a problem.

Where did people think his dads money went?

Its the same thing when Forbes described Kylie Jenner as a self made billionaire. She worked for it, sure. Its impressive. Being born into a wealthy family with tons of celebrity connections and such helps though. We will all play the cards life dealt us and that's fine. I don't even understand this obsession be classed as self made. I am grateful every day that one of my fathers primary drives was to make sure he left me better off than he was as a kid. If I have a family I will have the same responsibility.

Although a quote I have read and which scares me because I think it holds some wisdom is: 'Rich men's sons are seldom rich men's fathers'. When life is too easy you don't have to work hard. You might but you also don't have to. My father is not even a billionaire, not even a millionaire and yet I was abe to make choices comfortably, like studying towards a PhD without living day to day wondering how I would live. Some of colleagues had to.

In trumps case I would say we see some of this wisdom in action. Multiple failed and bankrupt business ventures and yet the Trump brand remains almost bullet proof. When your rich enough and dress and act the part you must be successful and so it creates a self fulfilling prophecy of a brand that sells success even without having to earn that success.

[Primateus]

I think this can serve as a succinct summary of how it happened.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

worry, on 03 October 2018 - 02:43 AM, said:

Oh good lord. The man really is vile - how can there ever be a hope that sexual assault victims will feel they can come forward when you get that sort of reaction from the POTUS?

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 03 October 2018 - 12:14 PM