[worry]

 QuickTidal, on 14 June 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

 Luv2B_Sassy, on 14 June 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

Just a quick update on where the kids are:

Sweet gods this is fucking REPULSIVE.

https://twitter.com/...347775602876416

[Vengeance]

Nico what do you think of your president saluting another countries general.

https://www.reddit.c...=reddit-android

[HoosierDaddy]

 Luv2B_Sassy, on 14 June 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

I tend to agree with all you guys about who and what Kim Jong Un is, but where Nico is right is that what probably matters most here is how South Korea is taking it. Which is to say regardless of what Trump does -- and believe me, I agree the meeting was a photo op and Trump is reliably going to be a dictator's friend in all situations, one of the only stable things about him -- President Moon is actually the one who deserves any credit for progress. If he can use Trump as a crowbar to pry open peace talks, he seems to be happy to let Trump prance and preen harmlessly around the margins.

The question is when does Trump start doing more harm than good...which seems inevitable, given that -- as I risk sounding like a broken record -- he's one of the dumbest people on the planet. But I'm thinking of Kim Jong Un less like Hitler here and more like David Koresh. Can Moon help the people inside without Trump or Kim setting the whole place on fire?

I get the thought here, but South Korea is going to be devastated by any detente that Trump creates because it won't be the US or Japan filling the holes, it'll be China. So yeah, let's abandon them for a far fetched dream, and we get a new Pacific theater war.

[EmperorMagus]

I'm really curious what the US left is going to do if the GOP keeps their majority in Nov or if Trump gets reelected in 2020.

He's been in power for a year and something and so far the left's reaction has been mostly impotent posturing and some well-intentioned campaigns to defeat him at the polls; but what if he wins the electoral votes without the popular vote again? What if the GOP ride on the unfair way congressional districts are set up in the US and win the Nov election?

Are people going to just take another 2/4/6 years of Trump's shit and hope the GOP can't come up with a phenomenon like him in 2024?

Edit: Also what's going to happen to the hundreds of incompetent ideologue federal judges he's appointed?

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 15 June 2018 - 02:39 AM

[Nicodimas]

 Cause, on 14 June 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

 Nicodimas, on 13 June 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

It would have been bad form on a first meet up to what bring up humanitarian issues? That doesn’t seem like a civil way to start this. Ultimately, he went .. he talked and didn’t piss them off. So win. I like the fact they are talking about NK coming to the table as the country is actually unraveling internally. This is s theory, but only would be proved with the integration of NK back into the fold.

Something like 80% of South Koreans supported the summit.
https://www.realclea...mit_137245.html

The range between not bringing up the humanitarian crisis and saying he and a homicidal dictator are now BFFs is almost infinite. Listen the humanitarian crisis in NK is horrific. Obviously not horrific enough for us to risk our lives and treasure to stop it, we made that choice long ago. Our primary goal is world security, not NK security, that said we should never gloss over it so far that we pretend that NK is a viable tourist destination.

I support the summit too! N Korea needs to be fixed and it should have been fixed decades ago. Its like a boil on the earth. We need to fix it, before they nuke a country not after. Ill admit I have no idea how but it should get more international attention than it does.

I agree with this statement also. I will also echo.. I cringe inside that Trump is running the show.. However he decided to try to tackle it. It confuses me greatly and we all know he did for his legacy.

However..here’s hoping this particular brand of crazy you know connects..seems to be working.

@ EM: Trumps going to win 2020 on the simple fact I complained about ages ago. The Dem keep bringing up the Russia stuff and if theirs one thing the common American hates its losers. You gotta drop that shit focus on 2020 and how to win. However the complaints keep rolling on. It’s really like they aren’t trying at this stage.

[Primateus]

 Nicodimas, on 16 June 2018 - 04:16 AM, said:

@ EM: Trumps going to win 2020 on the simple fact I complained about ages ago. The Dem keep bringing up the Russia stuff and if theirs one thing the common American hates its losers. You gotta drop that shit focus on 2020 and how to win. However the complaints keep rolling on. It's really like they aren't trying at this stage.

It's good to see that Americans got their priorities straight. Sure, let's reelect the monster that forcibly removes children from their parents, because there's just no way we can vote of the other guy. At least OUR guy is a winner!

[Gorefest]

I am sure it is not all Americans.

*queue Asterix magnifying glass on tiny village in a corner of the map*

[Nicodimas]

 Vengeance, on 14 June 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

 Nicodimas, on 13 June 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

 Cause, on 13 June 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

 Nicodimas, on 13 June 2018 - 04:04 AM, said:

 Cause, on 12 June 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

Trump just had a face to face meeting with Kim. They agreed to improve relations, talk more about denuclearization and trumo has promised to end joint us and s Korean training excercises? Seriously? The art of the deal here escapes me. He is either playing 9th dimensional chess or eating glue. No idea how we fix North Korea but I doubt this is it

South Korea wont be impressed, Japan wont be impressed. The trade war intensifies.

@ cause: this was a 1st meeting. Trump the guy in power actually gave up shit. Let Nkorea feel important. This went exceedingly well. Sometimes it’s just a talk.

Wtf you guys expect Trump to punch him in the face ? Declare world peace.

Ok first date, you don’t say I want to F you. You just talk.

People are crazy.

Trump shook hands with Kim and says they have a special bond. HE SAYS HE HAS A SPECIAL BOND WITH THE WORLDS MOST EGREGIOUS HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATOR! He said N Korea could have the worlds best hotels! Seriously? Seriously!!!!! The last American tourist came back with brain damage from torture and died! He probably just likes the idea of Trump Tower in pygong

Its a first meeting and nothing was accomplished except Trump without consulting his allies first has promised to stop traininig exercises. See this behavior in context of him leaving the G7 summit to see an enemy (after alienating everyone there) and single handedly deciding to leave the iran deal (alienating allies). He is pissing of friends to maybe earn the friendship of people the USA should not want to be friends with. Its bizarre.

Judging by what trump says (though one should never do this) he seems to believe kim flew home to immediately start dismantling the nuclear weapons program by hand, personally. Instead we have a vague promise to denuclearize the Korean peninsula.

In N Koreas view that actually means also removing the USA nuclear shield over south Korea. Also it ignores the chemical and biological weapons that N Korea has pointed at seoul and elsewhere that could still annihilate the south or at least do serious damage.

Yes America is the greater power. That makes it all the more bizarre to give up things unilaterally when N Koreas bargaining position is only getting stronger. At best he should have said if you stop tests for 3 months, Ill freeze all training exercises up until the date you do another test and then they back on, and I will even increase them.

There is also the greater contect of the fact that trump earned a concession that S Korea already earned a few months ago. There is also that N Korea has a tendency to break deals and so does trump. So ....

It was great !

I hate to say it, but he it seemed to me he went to the table and listened.

It would have been bad form on a first meet up to what bring up humanitarian issues? That doesn’t seem like a civil way to start this. Ultimately, he went .. he talked and didn’t piss them off. So win. I like the fact they are talking about NK coming to the table as the country is actually unraveling internally. This is s theory, but only would be proved with the integration of NK back into the fold.

Something like 80% of South Koreans supported the summit.
https://www.realclea...mit_137245.html

I highly doubt a civil tone would be to point out a country’s inherent flaws, so I don’t see a problem with him flattering a industry. I don’t think I would personally stay and vaca there myself.

Talking to Kim had to occur.. it’s been 7 decades ! Peace ultimately is worth a few concessions if it means bringing Nkorea and really it’s people into a more civilized world. The humanitarian crisis alone that is speculated .. I can’t imagine. It’s worth the effort if it gains traction and holds. The past strategy hasn’t it seems like..

Imagine if it goes posistive.

Yeah if it goes positive then Trump will have met with a dictator who punishes entire generations of families (much like hitler) and allowed him to have a voice on the world stage. This is a man who's family has victimized and brainwashed an entire country.

http://listverse.com...s-prison-camps/

https://www.nytimes....man-rights.html

https://www.independ...n-a7710696.html

https://www.bbc.com/...d-asia-40269546

https://www.reuters....r-idUSKCN1C22XM

You don't meet with hitler you don't meet with dictators as it gives them credence to continue doing what they want to do. Having been to auschwitz and seen first hand the atrocities that were committed there. For the United states to ever give any dictator who does those same things to his people is wrong and against everything thing that our country should stand for.

If you are in support of the meeting in the hopes of peace then you are just like the enables who supported the rise of the third reich. There are some people who you do not negotiate with on an equal basis. Kim jong un is one of them.

Hey ! Your not in support of sending a fucking invasion to remove him from power. I said that about a decade ago . Right ?

Your not in support of talking to him. Either. What ?

What type of response do you want .. continue to ignore him .. really ?

A reunification between North and South is brilliant. It’s not gonna happen overnight. It involves actual communication. It doesn’t occur how you think it should. That might not be actual communication, but demands.

It’s not an easy road.

[HoosierDaddy]

You'd rather a unified Korea with Kim Jung Un as a principal actor? Japan says "no thank you." I'll take the status quo as NK have given zero ability to verify de-nuking.

[EmperorMagus]

 Nicodimas, on 17 June 2018 - 01:47 AM, said:

Hey ! Your not in support of sending a fucking invasion to remove him from power. I said that about a decade ago . Right ?

Your not in support of talking to him. Either. What ?

What type of response do you want .. continue to ignore him .. really ?

A reunification between North and South is brilliant. It's not gonna happen overnight. It involves actual communication. It doesn't occur how you think it should. That might not be actual communication, but demands.

It's not an easy road.

Nico the medical equivalent to your post would be this:

1. A patient with a brain tumor comes in. Cue Trump in white lab coat sitting behind desk.

2. Trump looks at medical history files; recommends the patient go to the nearest constructions site, then ask someone with a saw to open her skull and extract the tumor.

3. Patient's husband protests; asks why can't a brain surgeon do this.

4. Doctor's secretary (you Nico, you're the secretary) yells at them from outside the room: "What the fuck do you entitled fucks want? You didn't accept the previous doctor's recommendation that the woman's head should be cut off; now you're complaining about the very reasonable suggestion that a construction worker should do the surgery."

5. Cue all the patients in the waiting room trying to leave. US Immigration and Customs is blocking the door.

Edit: The point people are trying the make isn't that negotiations are a bad thing (i.e. no one is saying the tumor should stay inside). People are just pointing out that an actual statesman with a functioning Foreign Service should be doing this (the brain surgeon), so Kim Jung Un isn't getting everything he wants without giving up anything important.


Though personally, I really can't blame NK for wanting nukes and wanting to hang on to their nukes. It seems to be the only insurance against regime change (US) or imperialism (Russia, China).

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 17 June 2018 - 02:37 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

I'm fairly sure I remember Obama starting he'd like to get to sit down the NK to try and sort something out. Cue howls of rage from Fox, the Republicans and basically everyone who is saying how great Trump is for thinking of this all by himself...

[Slow Ben]

You mean like this?

[Gorefest]

Fox news, the cancer that is dodgy journalism. Rupert Murdoch has a lot to answer for.

[Mezla PigDog]

 HoosierDaddy, on 17 June 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

You'd rather a unified Korea with Kim Jung Un as a principal actor? Japan says "no thank you." I'll take the status quo as NK have given zero ability to verify de-nuking.

I'm not sure the separated families with time running out to see each other again would agree with you.

It's a tricky one to be sure.

[HoosierDaddy]

 Mezla PigDog, on 17 June 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

 HoosierDaddy, on 17 June 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

You'd rather a unified Korea with Kim Jung Un as a principal actor? Japan says "no thank you." I'll take the status quo as NK have given zero ability to verify de-nuking.

I'm not sure the separated families with time running out to see each other again would agree with you.

It's a tricky one to be sure.

Mez, I agree on the domestic front. But, I'm not talking domestic politics here. Hell, we're separating families at the border and inside the US now, and it is disgusting to me and whole swaths of the public.

[Nicodimas]

 HoosierDaddy, on 17 June 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

You'd rather a unified Korea with Kim Jung Un as a principal actor? Japan says "no thank you." I'll take the status quo as NK have given zero ability to verify de-nuking.

Are you fucking kidding me.

@HD

Your smarter then this. Once N Korea gets integrated , less people die

Less horrible shit happens there

You guys are way more better humans than this.

We need to get actual..western beliefs there like yesterday, before society collapses there.

Integration will be tough , but should have occurred decades ago

[Maark Abbott]

 Nicodimas, on 18 June 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

We need to get actual..western beliefs there like yesterday, before society collapses there.

"God made us better than the rest of you."

"The world belongs to us."

"Not white? Work for me and receive this pittance!"

Strong Western beliefs there.

[worry]

Setting aside the gross East vs West thing (who was it again that executed the Manhattan Project?), if I'm reading Nico's main point right, he's saying that if you want North Korea to join the world, you gotta let them join the world. There's some sense there, and if it can happen without any more U.S.-led regime change (again, a Western Civ favorite) maybe that's for the best.

That's all theoretical, obviously, since DJT didn't actually get anything in the meeting and is too incompetent to do so in the future. To be successful, it has to include the concessions you guys have mentioned and it would also require a historic level of openness on the part of NK that doesn't involve everything being filtered by (or for) the Kim regime. So on the one hand, I would hope that if you crack things open a bit diplomatically, there's a way to effect change in NK that could take on its own momentum, letting the genie out of the bottle so to speak. On the other hand, there's virtually no chance DJT is capable of doing any of that, and there's a pretty good chance that if SK or Japan found the path to managing it, DJT might screw it up somehow.

[Macros]

I think the only real hope for NK is if a fluff piece interview specialist gets a gig to interview Kim, then the CIA can prep him to assassinate Kim via poison.

[Cause]

 Maark Abbott, on 18 June 2018 - 06:11 AM, said:

 Nicodimas, on 18 June 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

We need to get actual..western beliefs there like yesterday, before society collapses there.

"God made us better than the rest of you."

"The world belongs to us."

"Not white? Work for me and receive this pittance!"

Strong Western beliefs there.

We do need to integrate them economically and more importantly informationally (this is probably not a real world). We need to get them outside TV and the internet. We need them to know just how shit they have it. Though I believe to some degree they must know this based on rumours from the Korean athletes who cat defect. I read somewhere once that smuggled flash drives of S Korean soap operas are highly sought. Apparently its mind bending to see how affluent the south is, where nearly everyone has a car etc. We need to get to the people. Unfortunatly there seems to be no way to do that. The goverments grip is iron tight.

I think we should offer Kim and most of the higher ups a guaranteed life of luxury and wealth on a tropical island if they would get out the way.