[Vengeance]

Cause, on 09 October 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

worry, on 08 October 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

More like Pence staged a $200,000+ tax-funded publicity stunt to shame black American civil rights protestors. https://twitter.com/...110181670064130
If that's not American conservatism in a nutshell...

Id agree that's its a stunt. No question. However I do always wonder about these figures. The secret service gets paid regardless where they are. I imagine the airforce pilots of his plane etc are on standby all day regardless of whether they fly him anywhere or not. So while the fuel was used and has to be paid for the rest of the expenses are spent regardless. The secret service would still have to pay for overtime and travel allowances I guess. So its not that I am not agreeing that it was an expensive PR stunt I just wonder what the true cost was.

During the Libya thing a few years back I remember reading figures of how much it cost the USA to keep a carrier in the theatre. I remember thinking then that the figures made no sense. They included the pay of all the sailors etc and I just remember thinking then that sailors get paid in peacetime too. So journalists sometimes twist the numbers to hammer home the point.

When a President or Vice President travel yes they have SS but they also have a shit ton of local police. Roads have to be shut down. Local Police have to pay for overtime. Business in bad locals sometimes have to close. Swat has to take up positions along any stops that the VP makes. All of that costs a lot of money. Money that is not normally spent. Sure there is swelling but it is still a lot.

For the Carrier. You are correct soldiers get paid regardless. But if they are put on active (combat duty) then their pay gets bumped up to combat pay which is quite a bit higher then regular pay. When ships are in combat readiness it is burning a lot more fuel. Costs a lot more money. Planes are running combat missions are using more fuel then simple scouting missions. Because they are running with a full missile load which weighs more and so costs a lot more. Those things add up fast. Sure there is padding but not as much as you might think. The military accounts for the money they spend and when. Now that figure might be inflated but that is the figure that is being used. So if it is inflated then it is inflated by the military not necessarily by the press.

[worry]

Even aside from all that, if we simply take the "this stuff is getting paid for regardless of what the VP is actually doing" argument, that doesn't negate that what the VP was doing was a cheap publicity stunt and we paid for it. If your employee spends a few work hours playing World of Warcraft on the job, you likely don't say, "Well, we were paying the electric and ISP bills anyway. We were paying him for those hours anyway."

This post has been edited by worry: 09 October 2017 - 07:19 PM

[Silencer]

^this. And also what Vange said. I'm pretty sure the Service guys and the pilots get paid more when they're not on standby. So you'd get paid at X rate for being on duty in a secure location like the White House, and X+Y for being on detail at an irregular venue, based on what you were doing there and how secure it is. Pilots get paid to sit on the tarmac at X rate, paid extra for actual hours flying. Etc. That is normally how this stuff goes at least. It can be more or less complex but it's not like a regular nine to five where you get a flat rate and maybe some OT.

[Macros]

Alternative Goose, on 09 October 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Macros, on 09 October 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

I'd add another zero to that figure when you consider the security and other shit goes with a vp visit.

Arseholes.

I was about to ask who this off-brand Rage against the Machine group was and then I figured out it's a supergroup made up of most of RATM.

Well, if there ever was a time where they were needed...

It's rage with 2 guys from public enemy and one from cypress hi afaik.

Some great tunes

[worry]

The one-man death panel is set to eliminate the ACA subsidy payments: http://www.politico....-subsidy-243736

[Malankazooie]

Mark Zuckerberg is a terrible person and human garbage.



Oh and guys, you probably know this by now. Don't get your news from Facebook.

[worry]

After nearly two weeks, DJT finally spoke to the grieving families of four U.S. soldiers killed in Niger. His consolation message to one widow -- and to give him all due credit, I do believe it was his best attempt at playacting human sympathy -- was "he knew what he signed up for."
https://twitter.com/...441116675145728

[Tsundoku]

worry, on 18 October 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

After nearly two weeks, DJT finally spoke to the grieving families of four U.S. soldiers killed in Niger. His consolation message to one widow -- and to give him all due credit, I do believe it was his best attempt at playacting human sympathy -- was "he knew what he signed up for."
https://twitter.com/...441116675145728

I'm trying to come up with a context whereby this isn't a textbook example of sociopathy (not that I'm a qualified shrink), but I'm struggling. Is there a transcript or recording of the whole conversation, or at least the bits before and after this quote?

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 18 October 2017 - 07:33 AM

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 18 October 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

worry, on 18 October 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

After nearly two weeks, DJT finally spoke to the grieving families of four U.S. soldiers killed in Niger. His consolation message to one widow -- and to give him all due credit, I do believe it was his best attempt at playacting human sympathy -- was "he knew what he signed up for."
https://twitter.com/...441116675145728

I'm trying to come up with a context whereby this isn't a textbook example of sociopathy (not that I'm a qualified shrink), but I'm struggling. Is there a transcript or recording of the whole conversation, or at least the bits before and after this quote?

There is no context. This fits DIRECTLY onto the sociopathy checklist, regardless of what else he said. This statement to a war widow is completely shitty and would only be said by someone devoid of empathy.

In fact, a LOT of his behaviour fits onto not only the sociopath checklist, but the psychopathy one as well. You can google those checklists and see for yourself...

EDIT to add: That Trump vehemently denies he said that, tries to say that it was a Democrat woman's version of the call and that's it's not what he said....only to have the ACTUAL widow's mother now confirm that the politician who overheard the call's version of the words is indeed what Trump said, and continued that Trump disrespected her deceased son by doing so.

This means one of two things.

1. Trump lied, and doesn't have the balls to man up and apologize....or
2. His late-stage dementia is getting worse and he actually believes/remembers saying something else.

Either way. What a reprehensible POS.

-----------------

Also, apparently private email and security is no longer the "lock her up" issue that he hinged his ENTIRE campaign on.

https://www.vanityfa...vate-e-mail-use

The hypocrisy would be funny if it wasn't SO damned maddening.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 18 October 2017 - 04:38 PM

[worry]

Here's a good article on why facts -- and anyone left of center's reliance on them -- so often comes to naught in the world of politics. And I would add, a good portion of why "hypocrisy" doesn't ever seem to turn off the right.

https://www.texasobs...lem-with-facts/

[Studlock]

Facts are for policy, not politics. The technocrats of the center will never understand this because they fundamentally believe the world we live is ideal, and all that is left is the mundane work of tweaking the law, or the economy to create a more efficient outcomes. The failure to provide a clear moral narrative that reflected the state of many people in the states is what killed Hillary in the last election, and it looks like they didn't learn from that grand failure (pushing out the berniecrats), and I don't know what I expected from them. Trump, and people like Trump will continue to win unless you provide a better, clear moral alternative (and for me, the would be much further left than what Democrats seem hellbent on providing).

(also, uuhhhh, I'm back, but probably not for long, just decided to see how the forum as going on in my absent, and it's the same as it ever was, and that's not a bad thing--peace out).

This post has been edited by Studlock: 23 October 2017 - 02:35 PM

[Gorefest]

And again Trump managed to make 'fake' news with his incessant uninformed tweets. Two days ago:

"Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!"

So he takes a factual statement (UK crime rate rises 13%), then uses 'amid' to tag his own vitriolic agenda to it (radical islamic terror) and then claims that the two are linked. Which they aren't. The rise has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with radical islamic terror.


Why is this sort of stuff allowed to happen? How long can he keep getting away with these sorts of blatant lies and dishonesties? Why has nobody impeached this sob yet?

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 23 October 2017 - 03:59 PM

[amphibian]

Want to know something terrifying about the UK? Staffing cuts at the NHS killed approximately 30,000 people in England and Wales in 2015 alone.

https://www.theguard...ty-study-claims

When people talk about the "banality of evil" and what Hannah Arendt meant, they're not talking about the violent murderers. They're talking about things like staffing cuts in healthcare, lack of access, and the mundanity of process that leads to harm to people, the environment, and so on.

But Trump is only talking about terrorists because that's the attention grabber.

[worry]

Speaking of: https://www.reuters....s-idUSKBN1CP0BD
"Nursing shortages have occurred in the past, but the current crisis is far worse. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates there will be more than a million registered nurse openings by 2024, twice the rate seen in previous shortages."

Great time to have Betsy Devos in charge of Education and, until very recently, Tom Price in charge of Health & Human Services.

[Brujah]

amphibian, on 23 October 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

Want to know something terrifying about the UK? Staffing cuts at the NHS killed approximately 30,000 people in England and Wales in 2015 alone.

https://www.theguard...ty-study-claims

When people talk about the "banality of evil" and what Hannah Arendt meant, they're not talking about the violent murderers. They're talking about things like staffing cuts in healthcare, lack of access, and the mundanity of process that leads to harm to people, the environment, and so on.

But Trump is only talking about terrorists because that's the attention grabber.

Yeah, but amphibian, you're biased, and you've admitted so. You've even went as far to say that ALL white people are responsible for the top echelon of early southern Americans who actually owned slaves.

This might be out of context, but I can't help but think everything you post is extremely biased against all white people.

This forum is extremely left winged, and it's not a bad thing because it allows for our varied members to interact, knowing that the vast majority of white American posters are at the mercy of the Great American Political Machine. And if you think we can stop it, then you're wrong. It rolls along, taken all colored people but one - Green. People with money, and lots of it. Once you realize we're all in the same boat in this thing the better.

This post has been edited by Brujah: 24 October 2017 - 03:27 AM

[Brujah]

Gorefest, on 23 October 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

And again Trump managed to make 'fake' news with his incessant uninformed tweets. Two days ago:

"Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!"

So he takes a factual statement (UK crime rate rises 13%), then uses 'amid' to tag his own vitriolic agenda to it (radical islamic terror) and then claims that the two are linked. Which they aren't. The rise has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with radical islamic terror.


Why is this sort of stuff allowed to happen? How long can he keep getting away with these sorts of blatant lies and dishonesties? Why has nobody impeached this sob yet?

You greatly underestimate this man. I don't like this man, but I know better than to think there's a snowballs chance in hell he'll get impeached. Like it or not, he's a brilliant strategist and fundraiser. He's a selfmade billionaire, or close, and he's now the most powerful man on the planet...well if we exclude the Chinese.

Obama care isn't going anywhere. That has to be his biggest folly, unless he knows it's going nowhere and is playing both sides.

Trump has no need to pander to any lobbyist in it for just the money gain. His finances are going to sky rocket into the stratosphere after office.

You guys know we're in a minority with our beliefs. We're outnumbered.

[worry]

I don't concede any of that as true.

[worry]

A two-year-old company with literally two (2) full-time employees at the time of Hurricane Maria was granted the $300 million contract to rebuild the power infrastructure of Puerto Rico.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/small-montana-firm-lands-puerto-ricos-biggest-contract-to-get-the-power-back-on/2017/10/23/31cccc3e-b4d6-11e7-9e58-e6288544af98_story.html

How did this happen? Well, they're from Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke's home town. Zinke happens to know the CEO, and Zinke's son worked for him on a summer project once. They both claim that had no influence on the contract.

And there are further connections to Rick Perry: https://twitter.com/...669433503584256

This post has been edited by worry: 24 October 2017 - 04:58 AM

[Macros]

Brujah, on 24 October 2017 - 03:42 AM, said:

Gorefest, on 23 October 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

And again Trump managed to make 'fake' news with his incessant uninformed tweets. Two days ago:

"Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!"

So he takes a factual statement (UK crime rate rises 13%), then uses 'amid' to tag his own vitriolic agenda to it (radical islamic terror) and then claims that the two are linked. Which they aren't. The rise has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with radical islamic terror.


Why is this sort of stuff allowed to happen? How long can he keep getting away with these sorts of blatant lies and dishonesties? Why has nobody impeached this sob yet?

You greatly underestimate this man. I don't like this man, but I know better than to think there's a snowballs chance in hell he'll get impeached. Like it or not, he's a brilliant strategist and fundraiser. He's a selfmade billionaire, or close, and he's now the most powerful man on the planet...well if we exclude the Chinese.

Obama care isn't going anywhere. That has to be his biggest folly, unless he knows it's going nowhere and is playing both sides.

Trump has no need to pander to any lobbyist in it for just the money gain. His finances are going to sky rocket into the stratosphere after office.

You guys know we're in a minority with our beliefs. We're outnumbered.

Self made?
Daddy left him all his money.
Which he was, well documentedly, wasted it's potential. Had he hedge funded the lot he worked be worth more than he is now.

Is is a narcissistic egomaniacal prick. Who happens to have lucked into a presidential position based on a brutally broken political system, he did not win the popular vote.
Simples.
His wealth with rocket because of his corruption. The fault is a system where you have a man getting elected but a full back ground check isn't permitted.
When a person makes a move to buy a football team they get vetted more closely than the fucking president does. He is definitely guilty of tax fraud on a massive scale, yet he isn't investigated?

[Cause]

worry, on 24 October 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

A two-year-old company with literally two (2) full-time employees at the time of Hurricane Maria was granted the $300 million contract to rebuild the power infrastructure of Puerto Rico.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/small-montana-firm-lands-puerto-ricos-biggest-contract-to-get-the-power-back-on/2017/10/23/31cccc3e-b4d6-11e7-9e58-e6288544af98_story.html

How did this happen? Well, they're from Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke's home town. Zinke happens to know the CEO, and Zinke's son worked for him on a summer project once. They both claim that had no influence on the contract.

And there are further connections to Rick Perry: https://twitter.com/...669433503584256

Welcome to South African politics. We have a word for it, Tendeprenuers. They are Entrepreneurs who make a living by scoring government contracts through connections to high powered politicians. So whenever government puts out a tender asking for bids from companies seeking who can do the best job at the lowest price it often ends up being won by a company that was set up a week after the tender was put out. It has kinda destroyed my countries economy.

At least you have the tools in place to watch these things. Hopefully the press will be watching very carefully and will put pressure on this fast.