[EmperorMagus]

I saw this going around on twitter, and it is annoying me.

http://www.wsj.com/a...wden-1483143143

So here comes my rant:

1. Whether Edward Snowden was spy or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that your government is a gigantic turd spying on the whole world just because they can. Do something about that instead of being stupid bitches on twitter.

2. Cite your fucking sources. You attribute to Snowden the claim that "I was going to Russia to go to South America but the US revoked my passport midair". The claim is uncited, but I vividly remember the US revoking Snowden's passport while he was in Hong Kong and Snowden quite openly fleeing to Russia so he isn't deported.

3. You're using the reports of the same gigantic piece of turd spying on everyone that wants Snowden convicted for treason against him. The same group of organizations that straight up lied to your congress. Why should we have any sort of trust for these organizations is beyond me.

This is the most obvious and disgusting sort of character assassination that says nothing about the issues Snowden brought to life, but simply tries to ruin any credibility he might have so that those issues would be ignored.

[Nicodimas]

kunstler goes big!!! He sometimes drops these posts that by the end you kind of look at all our progress in a whole different light. Keep your preps strong people... Getting close

http://kunstler.com/...nally-come-off/

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 03 January 2017 - 01:37 AM

[worry]

GOPers in the House are gutting the independent oversight office that investigates/keeps a check on the House. http://www.nytimes.c...ics-office.html

It's now going to be under the House Ethics Committee, meaning it's under the thumb of the people it's supposed to hold accountable. And the new rules include absolute silence to the public and even law enforcement if they discover an ethics violation. They communicate up to the Committee, period. https://twitter.com/...102544313356288

This is a sign of some seriously dire things to come.

[MTS]

The thing that boggles my mind is how this can even be legislated on by lawmakers in the first place. It's like children being the only arbiters of discipline in a classroom, and they can set the punishments. It's the most blatant conflict of interest there is. There's a similar conflict in allowing politicians to legislate on their own remuneration. Of course they are going to look after their own.

Congress should have no authority to change their own oversight prerogatives, full stop. GOP leadership's silence on this issue is deafening.

[Tsundoku]

So not only are the inmates now running the asylum, but the foxes are running the henhouses and sailors are in charge of brothels.

You know what the most startling thing is to me? That people are surprised this shit is happening.
I'm assuming the absolute lowest, most disgusting self-interest on the part of the GOP, Trump etc and so far I haven't been surprised.

Any more appropriate metaphors?

This post has been edited by Captain Needa: 03 January 2017 - 12:39 PM

[worry]

Wow, the language was actually stripped from the bill before the full House vote, because of so much attention and outcry. I'm not shocked they tried, but I am kinda shocked that backlash actually worked so swiftly. Trump even kinda criticized it -- not its content, of course, but its timing -- which I think means this fight isn't over. I know this is a pipe dream but I kinda hope this signals that Trump being in power means that -- at least as a byproduct of their bloodthirsty entertainment-seeking focus -- the media will actually do its job reporting on events of national consequence. I'd welcome that even if it's by accident. This was actually kinda cool to see.

[Vengeance]

EmperorMagus, on 02 January 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

I saw this going around on twitter, and it is annoying me.

http://www.wsj.com/a...wden-1483143143

So here comes my rant:

1. Whether Edward Snowden was spy or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that your government is a gigantic turd spying on the whole world just because they can. Do something about that instead of being stupid bitches on twitter.

Hate to break it to you. But all governments spy on everyone. This has always been true.

Quote

2. Cite your fucking sources. You attribute to Snowden the claim that "I was going to Russia to go to South America but the US revoked my passport midair". The claim is uncited, but I vividly remember the US revoking Snowden's passport while he was in Hong Kong and Snowden quite openly fleeing to Russia so he isn't deported.

They actually revoked it after his plane left the ground in Hong Kong. He had just take off to Russia. Otherwise they would have caught him in Hong Kong.

Quote

3. You're using the reports of the same gigantic piece of turd spying on everyone that wants Snowden convicted for treason against him. The same group of organizations that straight up lied to your congress. Why should we have any sort of trust for these organizations is beyond me.

I would trust them more then I trust congress. Those bought and sold lying pieces of shit. Who only care about campaign donations. If you are talking about the Iraq war information then there were lots of people in the CIA and NSA who cautioned against invading Iraq. They were ignored because the administration had already decided to invade and was looking for any excuse. If you have intellegence agencies then you should pay attention to what they have to say. Otherwise just get all of your information from Russian/Chinese papers.

Quote

This is the most obvious and disgusting sort of character assassination that says nothing about the issues Snowden brought to life, but simply tries to ruin any credibility he might have so that those issues would be ignored.

Snowden is an asshat who if he wasn't working for the russians before sure as shit is now. I trust nothing that he says. I assume that his now a mouth piece for Russia much like Wikileaks/Trump are.

[worry]

death rattle, on 03 January 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

Wow, the language was actually stripped from the bill before the full House vote, because of so much attention and outcry. I'm not shocked they tried, but I am kinda shocked that backlash actually worked so swiftly. Trump even kinda criticized it -- not its content, of course, but its timing -- which I think means this fight isn't over. I know this is a pipe dream but I kinda hope this signals that Trump being in power means that -- at least as a byproduct of their bloodthirsty entertainment-seeking focus -- the media will actually do its job reporting on events of national consequence. I'd welcome that even if it's by accident. This was actually kinda cool to see.

I dunno if it's gauche to reply to yourself, but I don't have a reply to the Snowden stuff. It just occurred to me that if we see the press attributing this course reversal to widespread citizen push-back, that's a good sign, and if we see press attribute this to Trump and his Tweets, that will be a terrible sign. I'm both curious and dreading what it will be.

[EmperorMagus]

Vengeance, on 03 January 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Hate to break it to you. But all governments spy on everyone. This has always been true.


They actually revoked it after his plane left the ground in Hong Kong. He had just take off to Russia. Otherwise they would have caught him in Hong Kong.

I would trust them more then I trust congress. Those bought and sold lying pieces of shit. Who only care about campaign donations. If you are talking about the Iraq war information then there were lots of people in the CIA and NSA who cautioned against invading Iraq. They were ignored because the administration had already decided to invade and was looking for any excuse. If you have intellegence agencies then you should pay attention to what they have to say. Otherwise just get all of your information from Russian/Chinese papers.


Snowden is an asshat who if he wasn't working for the russians before sure as shit is now. I trust nothing that he says. I assume that his now a mouth piece for Russia much like Wikileaks/Trump are.

Just because it has always been like that, it doesn't mean it's remotely acceptable or in any way moral to do this. The complete lack of shamelessness on part of the American government doesn't help.

If that sequence of events if true, then the article is factually incorrect. In which case my point still stands, the guy is wrong.

I was referring to the time the director of NSA stood in front of the congress and said "nah we aren't doing this" and then stood in front of congress a few months later and said "we were totally doing it."

Again, Snowden's motivations are entirely irrelevant to the fact that the US government is spying shamelessly on its own population and the population of its allies.

[Lady Bliss]

I'm genuinely afraid of peotus at this point. How he can discredit intelligence experts and side with russia on the substantial evidence of hacking to affect our election raised y national security and industry efforts shows either mental instability or close ties to russia,

[Aptorian]

EmperorMagus, on 04 January 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 03 January 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Hate to break it to you. But all governments spy on everyone.

Just because it has always been like that, it doesn't mean it's remotely acceptable or in any way moral to do this. The complete lack of shamelessness on part of the American government doesn't help.

Nonsense. This is like protesting against a nation having a standing army because you believe in peace and diplomacy. Intelligence agencies are essential to protect your nations security.

You think China and Russia would somehow magically stop spying on America if America just stopped being so snoopy? Not to mention all the other countries who have agents gathering intel.

The world is not a nice place and that Cold War didn't end in 1991. It's still going strong in 2016. It's just a war on data now instead of nuclear weapons and weapon patents.

Lady Bliss, on 04 January 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

I'm genuinely afraid of peotus at this point. How he can discredit intelligence experts and side with russia on the substantial evidence of hacking to affect our election raised y national security and industry efforts shows either mental instability or close ties to russia,

Or you know there's the more rational third argument:

He has to ignore or discredit the accusations because if he doesn't, then he himself raised questions about the legitemacy of his own presidency. This is plain and simple political logic. Survival of the fittest and the ones who lie the best.

[Lady Bliss]

i feel like it would be classier to accept that his voters righteously voted him, while agreeing that the Russians. TRIED to influence the election, n'est-ce pas?

[Aptorian]

Classy? Sure. Food for the opposition, most certainly. You don't expose your underbelly to the wolf just to prove you're not a bad guy.

[Lady Bliss]

at this point he has won. he needs to unify the people who are frankly disenfranchised by losing the popular vote.

[Aptorian]

He needs to do that after he's sworn in. Until then he's still "vulnerable".

[Lady Bliss]

Apt, on 04 January 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

He needs to do that after he's sworn in. Until then he's still "vulnerable".

as long as he doesnt accept skittles from bears...

oh wait... maybe he should find a bubble and just stay there. itsa dangerous world out there.

[Aptorian]

I can tell that Pedobear meme got to you. You would have enjoyed the pictures thread in 2008.

[Lady Bliss]

it did...i need to bring this up to my counselor. Wikipedia didn't help.

[Vengeance]

EmperorMagus, on 04 January 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Just because it has always been like that, it doesn't mean it's remotely acceptable or in any way moral to do this. The complete lack of shamelessness on part of the American government doesn't help.

If that sequence of events if true, then the article is factually incorrect. In which case my point still stands, the guy is wrong.

I was referring to the time the director of NSA stood in front of the congress and said "nah we aren't doing this" and then stood in front of congress a few months later and said "we were totally doing it."

Again, Snowden's motivations are entirely irrelevant to the fact that the US government is spying shamelessly on its own population and the population of its allies.

Don't be naive EM. All governments spy on everyone. They always have. Caesar had informers. As did all rulers of that those time periods. Now instead of straight up informers you have agents who gather data by any and all means possible. I understand your frustration with how things are. But that doesn't change that it is how it has always been. True the NSA should keep better track of their shit. But they got a face full of shit for it and now they do. Do you honestly think that Congress didn't fully know exactly what the NSA was doing. They fucking authorized it for gods sake. Of course they knew. That whole dog and pony show in front of the camera's was just punishment for the NSA. Well maybe not all of congress knew as they are mostly asshats who have a hard time figuring anything out. But the Senate fucking knew.

[Cause]

Vengeance, on 04 January 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 04 January 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Just because it has always been like that, it doesn't mean it's remotely acceptable or in any way moral to do this. The complete lack of shamelessness on part of the American government doesn't help.

If that sequence of events if true, then the article is factually incorrect. In which case my point still stands, the guy is wrong.

I was referring to the time the director of NSA stood in front of the congress and said "nah we aren't doing this" and then stood in front of congress a few months later and said "we were totally doing it."

Again, Snowden's motivations are entirely irrelevant to the fact that the US government is spying shamelessly on its own population and the population of its allies.

Don't be naive EM. All governments spy on everyone. They always have. Caesar had informers. As did all rulers of that those time periods. Now instead of straight up informers you have agents who gather data by any and all means possible. I understand your frustration with how things are. But that doesn't change that it is how it has always been. True the NSA should keep better track of their shit. But they got a face full of shit for it and now they do. Do you honestly think that Congress didn't fully know exactly what the NSA was doing. They fucking authorized it for gods sake. Of course they knew. That whole dog and pony show in front of the camera's was just punishment for the NSA. Well maybe not all of congress knew as they are mostly asshats who have a hard time figuring anything out. But the Senate fucking knew.

Well in approx 1930 America shut down the Black chamber (best name for a spy agency ever!) citing that it was inappropriate to spy on their allies. Then WW2 happened and everybody, America included, learnt that intelligence is a great way to win the war. Some say cracking Enigma won the war, shortened the war by years and saved millions of lives. Ever since WW2 ended the USA and governments around the world have learnt that intelligence remains important in peace time. Who knew that governments lie (remember when the British prime minister promised peace in our time!) and they lie even to their allies. So long as politics remain so murky intelligence will remain. M16 will spy on the CIA and vice versa despite being as closely allied as possible. The British government is spying on my government as we speak! I forget the details but there was a minor scandal a few months ago. I am even happy to have the NSA read my email if it means less terrorism.

Are there dangers? Absolutely. We all have something to hide. If the government misuses its power to prosecute people then its not great. However when its the government vs the people they dont even need actual evidence.